Now been won over after his spell in the side?

Never doubted. He's taking his chance.

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:55 pm

Now been won over after his spell in the side?

My only doubts over him were his lack of goals, his overall game has never been in question for me, but he needed to add goals to his game, and now he's doing that I don't see how SD can leave him out of the side, and it can't be a coincidence that Wood has hit his scoring spree since their partnership formed, touch wood they can only get better next season, as they could become a really potent pairing.

I think Vydra only has 1 year left on his contract, so hopefully we're planning to commence extension talks, if we haven't already, we need to get him tied down long term he's now a key figure in our side.

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:55 pm

Now been won over after his spell in the side?

No

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:55 pm

Now been won over after his spell in the side?

Not sure I ever doubted he could play just that he didn't seem to suit our style and therefore didn't feel he was as effective as the other two (Barnes and Jay). However as the squad has returned to full strength and he has had an extended run alongside Wood, he seems to have got better and better and our style of play has adapted for the better too (the pragmatism of Dyche?).

Certainly wouldn't be looking to replace him anytime soon.

amazing what happens when a player gets proper game time

im sure people said we should try swapping him with Andre Gray. These posters are the same who say we should get rid of Sean and Ben Mee is overrated. In other words empty-headed

Kind of, although my view was always that Wood is our best striker and shouldn't be dropped to accomodate Vydra, which is what many of Vydra's supporters appeared to advocate.

I have always said Wood is our best striker and my preference was for Jayrod to play along side him. However, I have to say Vydra has been great in the last few weeks and he now has to start along side Wood.

He's won me over, yes.

There was an article which seemed to have good inside info which explained he's worked hard with Sean Dyche at improving the facets of his game which Dyche had identified as being weak.

It's paying off now and he's in great form and playing very, very well.

Tall Paul wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:03 pm

Kind of, although my view was always that Wood is our best striker and shouldn't be dropped to accomodate Vydra, which is what many of Vydra's supporters appeared to advocate.

Not how I remember it.... they wanted Barnes dropping for Vydra didn’t they?. I certainly did. Wood and Vydra was always the partnership I wanted to see get a decent run to establish itself. I just thought they would complement each other and for a change we would have the option of playing to feet in and around the box due to his increased mobility. Looks like we are seeing something like that now. I’m sure some will say we had to play like we did due to injuries, but I’m not so sure we did.

Vyds had a couple of cup games and a few cameos in the league and was supposed to assert himself? So little game time yet people were happy to suggest his lack of goals kept him on the bench. Truth is, whenever he got some time on the pitch he was no worse than the player going off, and in the majority of cases better.

Some of the best formation changes and changes in personnel have come when they have been forced upon us, not down to anything else.

Just saying like....

Prefeot wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:01 pm

No

Are you answering on behalf of the Vydra doubters or are you an actual Vydra doubter?

I was most definitely a doubter...he always seemed to me to be too lightweight and not particularly quick or skilful.
Yes...he has won me over ! (a process which took off when the ball hit the net at Southampton last season and has accelerated this season)

Yes. He’s improved a lot of aspects of his game - strength, work rate off the ball and dare I say attitude. I’d like him to work on his movement in the box and getting into more poacher positions which sees Wood Get a lot of tap ins. But he’s certainly won me over with his recent run in the side and he’s our number two striker as things stand.

I always thought that the Vydra I had seen at his other clubs was just what we needed in the squad and that he couldn’t have become a bad player overnight. Thanks goodness he won Sean over in the end (and mainly due to injuries) got an extended run in the side. No criticism of Barnes and Rodriguez as we are blessed with four good players up front who all offer different things.

Never doubted Vydra. Doubted how he'd fit into how we 'played' at times. He's a talented lad and for me one of most technically gifted but it's been about getting the best out of him in the way we play.

Absolutely.

I doubted him, wrote him off even. He never impressed me as a starter substitute in those first two barren seasons really bar the goal at Southampton, but wow, it’s felt like a new signing since he came into the team.

The best thing about him is the way he makes the entire team operate in a more expansive manner. We are definitely playing better football due to Vydra and Chris Wood is playing the best football of his career too. I would be getting a new contract sorted (OOC end of next season) and I will quite happily eat my humble pie in the case of Matej.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:51 pm

Yes. He’s improved a lot of aspects of his game - strength, work rate off the ball and dare I say attitude. I’d like him to work on his movement in the box and getting into more poacher positions which sees Wood Get a lot of tap ins. But he’s certainly won me over with his recent run in the side and he’s our number two striker as things stand.

I like his movement and work rate but am doubtful of his finishing ability at this level.

It was a neat finish for the offside goal and a tricky one for Taylor's cross (if Taylor had put the pull in low like McNeil did for the goal Vydra would have had a better chance to score).

However the chance where he was put through and Boly got back to whip the ball off his feet I thought he might have done better. He got in a good position and it was difficult because the ball wouldn't come down quick enough which gave Boly the chance to clear. If though instead of just thinking of whacking the ball home with his right foot, so being slightly to the left of the ball (allowing Boly in), had he been more aware of Boly he would have placed himself central to the ball so blocking the Wolves defender or getting a penalty. It would have given him a bit more time but perhaps made it a touch more awkward to hit the ball with his right foot.

Just my observation as someone who had no expertise whatsoever as a forward! I'm sure his coaches will tell him this.

I never doubted him, but I think until he improved his work rate off the ball, (which he has), SD didn't trust him to start games. His pace means that teams can't push up and defend a high-line like they do when Barnes plays with Wood.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:56 pm

amazing what happens when a player gets proper game time

This is it in a nutshell. Match fitness and confidence are majorly important and take time.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:33 pm

This is it in a nutshell. Match fitness and confidence are majorly important and take time.

Perhaps ..but there is more to it than that. I mean Sean could give me a 50 game continuous run and I suspect I still might not be up to it !!

He just needed his chance. Getting it last season really provided the impetus for him to put the extra hours in the take his chance when it came again

Movement very good, pace good..... finishing is still the area that holds him back however imo.

Wood and Vydra is our best pair. Jay was good last year but hasn’t been great this year and Barnes is more of a plan B these days.

When Wydra play one of them always seems to have a good game if not both. When wood and Barnes played we were much more streaky and half the time they wouldn’t touch the ball all game. Jay rod is good at holding the ball up and good at striking the ball from distance but not overly threatening most of the time. Vydra is genuinely quick - see how he ran down the left yesterday leaving someone in his wake. He even caught up with traore to make a good tackle and win us the ball in a decent position yesterday.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:50 pm

Movement very good, pace good..... finishing is still the area that holds him back however imo.

That's fair tbh, and can only get better as he gets more gametime.

He’s a terrific footballer, and I love seeing terrific footballers play for our club.

I doubted whether he would be a fit for our style of play, but I never doubted his ability. I’m just pleased it’s finally coming together for him and us and I hope he kicks on and we get to see another few seasons of him playing at Turf Moor. Already mentioned above, but we’ve had to change slightly to accommodate him when he was the only option, and it has paid off to an extent with our more expansive forward movement. The downside is that we lost a little rigidity at the back albeit it seems a temporary issue, but that’s slotting into line too. Can only be a good thing for us. His finishing will sharpen with game time

Misses to many chances. Barnes be back in next weekend

Everybody entitled to their opinion, he was probably a little petulant at not getting a chance. But he has knuckled down, the fitness and the work ethic is now in his play. Just needs to take a few more chances... the lad has no doubt got talent.

The one thing I've noticed is that Wood is not caught offside as much since he has been paired with Vydra,

doesn’t smile enough!

Stalbansclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:45 pm

Perhaps ..but there is more to it than that. I mean Sean could give me a 50 game continuous run and I suspect I still might not be up to it !!

Ha, that made me laugh

Rojales Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:34 pm

The one thing I've noticed is that Wood is not caught offside as much since he has been paired with Vydra,

Its because Vydra is much better (and quicker) at being the first man running behind their line. In a system of Wood and Barnes, Wood makes those runs on the shoulder more, whereas with Wood/Vydra its Vydra's job.

They look like the improved version of Vokes Ings to me

Local cricketer wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:23 pm

Misses to many chances. Barnes be back in next weekend

But Wood, (currently in fine form), also misses his fair share, and Barnes certainly does. Don't all strikers miss more than they score?
We see strikers worth tens of millions miss relatively easy chances week in week out.
It's also fair to say that he has, understandably, been short of game time, and confidence until recently.

ClaretAL wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:16 pm

They look like the improved version of Vokes Ings to me

Yeah, was just about to add that he seems to have got a bit Ingsy in his style this year; head down, bulldozing through, a bit stronger working more, harrying better, and with a great powerful shot. Looks to have just intensified his game a bit more and with all the injuries feels like he's gonna finally get a run of games, in which he's got fitter, sharper and more confident; a reason to work harder during the week prepping for games. Must be nothing worse than having to work hard all week to then just be sat on the bench; Dyche is a tough nut to crack even when we're not playing that well.

22 games 3 goals this season, not enough.

That has to improve.

steve1264b wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:41 pm

22 games 3 goals this season, not enough.

That has to improve.

how many starts? How many as sub?
What's his involvement been like? 3 goals, any assists?

Heres hoping thats the end of barnes and jay.
They arent good enough

Wood and Vydra is cemented for me. Should have been them 2 all season

Get a 3rd striker in and get shut of the others

Bcrollerz wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:56 pm

Heres hoping thats the end of barnes and jay.
They arent good enough

Wood and Vydra is cemented for me. Should have been them 2 all season

Get a 3rd striker in and get shut of the others

I tend to agree but I think they'll get next season to prove their worth. Both have been injured too much to judge them this year. Certainly an area we'll need to upgrade on soon though. Thank god for Vydra's improvement this season or else we would have really struggled with only Wood in.

diamondpocket wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:45 pm

how many starts? How many as sub?
What's his involvement been like? 3 goals, any assists?

He's made 12 starts this season, 1 assist (Mcneil's worldy at Everton) and played about 100 minutes fewer than Barnes with 1111.

He's obviously playing very well at the moment and rightly deserves to be starting even with everyone fit however earlier he went 11 starts, over 1000 minutes and a full calendar year without scoring which if he was a couple of years older would have had some on here consigning him to the scrap heap...

For those good with stats:

Wood/vydra compared with any other partnership in terms of team goals scored?

Or vydra starts vs non starts in terms of team goals scored?

milkcrate_mosh wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:18 pm

He's made 12 starts this season, 1 assist (Mcneil's worldy at Everton) and played about 100 minutes fewer than Barnes with 1111.

He's obviously playing very well at the moment and rightly deserves to be starting even with everyone fit however earlier he went 11 starts, over 1000 minutes and a full calendar year without scoring which if he was a couple of years older would have had some on here consigning him to the scrap heap...

Wow someone can find stats. He actually contributed though when he doesn’t score. The same can’t be said for Barnes. Vydra is our most threatening striker on the ball. Barnes is the best at shithousery and winning freekicks late in a game and jay rod is very good with his feet but slow. Wood is the best goalscorer.

Vydra will score more as he continues playing. Just watch.
He could have had at least one on Saturday and realistically you can’t put it down to poor finishing - just wasn’t his day.

steve1264b wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:41 pm

22 games 3 goals this season, not enough.

That has to improve.

What about cup games? His goals and assists to minutes ratio is actually decent this season

Stevie Morgan wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:40 pm

For those good with stats:

Wood/vydra compared with any other partnership in terms of team goals scored?

Or vydra starts vs non starts in terms of team goals scored?

Had a look earlier, our best scoring partnership in terms of goals and points per game is actually Barnes and Rodriguez but obviously they've only started 2 games together...

The three main partnerships this season have been Wood/Rodriguez, Wood/Vydra and Wood Barnes.

Of these the highest goals per game is Wood/Vydra 1.38, with Wood/Rod coming close at 1.3, Wood/Barnes is way back at 0.42.

In terms of points per game Wood/Rodriguez wins out at 1.83, W/V is 1.38 ppg and Wood/Barnes is 0.91.

We've started one game with Barnes/Vydra - 1-1 with Brighton.

We've started 3 games with Vydra/Rodriguez and picked up 1 point scoring no goals.

Obviously these don't factor in substitutes but seeing as noone has scored or assisted as a sub suspect that doesn't matter too much, the only game you could argue is Vydra coming on against Villa for Rodriguez.

Would suggest that Wood presently benefits from a presser like Rodriguez or Vydra with him. Would say that the Wood/Barnes games cover a period where we were having to play Long, Benson and Dunne etc. and when they reunited for the Wolves game and Mee was back their results improved and they got 9 points in 6 games.


Edit: quickly worked out the Vydra starts vs doesn't start goals a game 1.08 with Vyds, 0.81 without, 12 and 21 games respectively.

Tries too hard at times (overcomplicating things etc) and definitely spends too much time visibly wallowing/punishing himself.

He needs to keep his head clear.

When he starts a game he looks a threat, but 2 or 3 minor missed chances and that's his head gone - more and more so as the game goes on.

Barnes on the other hand will just keep on ploughing on, his head (not much in it, I suspect) is much clearer.

Iloveyoubrady wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:48 pm

The same can’t be said for Barnes. Vydra is our most threatening striker on the ball. Barnes is the best at shithousery and winning freekicks late in a game and jay rod is very good with his feet but slow.

The opening goal that sealed promotion vs QPR, spectacular long range efforts vs Spurs and City, the overhead kick vs Albion, four goals in the opening three games of last season, 41 EPL goals that have kept this club in the top division and helped to secure European football.

Some shithousery.

Sadly it looks like injuries and the march of time have taken their toll for our Ash, but it will be a very sad day indeed when he leaves our club, on a par with the departures of Big Sam, Tom, Duffer and Scotty Arfield players who worked tirelessly & gave everything they had for Burnley FC.

Bottom line is he looks different player. His workmate is better, he looks stronger.

His touch and movement have always been good but he was too lightweight previously and he seems to have improved his strength.

Hes been playing very well and was a bit unfortunate yesterday with the offside goal as he certainly deserved one with his performance. His pressing in their third was fantastic.

Last year I would have said he wasn't quite up to it. Right now I've changed my mind. Just like Vokes did.

Good that Dyche gave him praise too because his contribution was terrific

ClaretLoup wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:30 pm

The opening goal that sealed promotion vs QPR, spectacular long range efforts vs Spurs and City, the overhead kick vs Albion, four goals in the opening three games of last season, 41 EPL goals that have kept this club in the top division and helped to secure European football.

Some shithousery.

Sadly it looks like injuries and the march of time have taken their toll for our Ash, but it will be a very sad day indeed when he leaves our club, on a par with the departures of Big Sam, Tom, Duffer and Scotty Arfield players who worked tirelessly & gave everything they had for Burnley FC.

Great post, hard not to love Ash for his endeavour and absolute joy every time he scores. He's a claret for sure. He's been brilliant for us, hope he stays another year, but could also see him leaving. Whatever is best for both I guess, but he is up there with Arf and Duffer for me, legends.

milkcrate_mosh wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:09 pm

Had a look earlier, our best scoring partnership in terms of goals and points per game is actually Barnes and Rodriguez but obviously they've only started 2 games together...

The three main partnerships this season have been Wood/Rodriguez, Wood/Vydra and Wood Barnes.

Of these the highest goals per game is Wood/Vydra 1.38, with Wood/Rod coming close at 1.3, Wood/Barnes is way back at 0.42.

In terms of points per game Wood/Rodriguez wins out at 1.83, W/V is 1.38 ppg and Wood/Barnes is 0.91.

We've started one game with Barnes/Vydra - 1-1 with Brighton.

We've started 3 games with Vydra/Rodriguez and picked up 1 point scoring no goals.

Obviously these don't factor in substitutes but seeing as noone has scored or assisted as a sub suspect that doesn't matter too much, the only game you could argue is Vydra coming on against Villa for Rodriguez.

Would suggest that Wood presently benefits from a presser like Rodriguez or Vydra with him. Would say that the Wood/Barnes games cover a period where we were having to play Long, Benson and Dunne etc. and when they reunited for the Wolves game and Mee was back their results improved and they got 9 points in 6 games.


Edit: quickly worked out the Vydra starts vs doesn't start goals a game 1.08 with Vyds, 0.81 without, 12 and 21 games respectively.

Really interesting, thanks for that. The wood/Barnes combination is what I have dreaded the most, particularly from an aesthetic POV and that is backed up re goal stats. Accept what you say re other absences etc but they were primarily defensive it seems.

Did you use a site or work it out manually out of interest?