As many expected this crazy sending off has rightly been rescinded on appeal, so he will now be free to play at TM.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56907307

... and those responsible taken out and shot.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:24 pm

... and those responsible taken out and shot.

Now now elwa we don't live in North Korea steady on, it is incredible that between them neither the on field officials or the VAR ref could somehow come to the correct decision on the day, but thankfully sanity has prevailed in the end.

Surely all this VAR screw up shenanigans is enough to at least have it looked at with regard to some serious changes?

It’s been more than a little bit **** hasn’t it?

Why aren’t the referees penalised for making such a poor decision? With VAR there really shouldn’t be any wrong decisions really should they? But they really should be any monumental cock ups like this red card decision.

Well that’s a shock

Well that’s a shock

You can say that again..

Most ridiculous red card I've ever seen.

bf2k wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:00 pm

Why aren’t the referees penalised for making such a poor decision? With VAR there really shouldn’t be any wrong decisions really should they? But they really should be any monumental cock ups like this red card decision.

All three recent successful appeals (1 Southampton & 2 West Ham) have all come about after VAR intervened following correct on field decisions.

Very similar situation that Ashley Barnes didn’t find himself in against Matic.

I wonder if that scenario cropped up in defence of Balbuena...

...not that it needed to. Was never a foul. Makes you wonder what people are seeing at VAR HQ.

VAR needs to be manned by professional none football people

This is why VAR wants scrapping. It's correct that it was overturned. Darren Engiand along with Oliver ( I think he was on var) who officiated our game at Wolves want hauling in front of their superiors and asked the question regarding the Traore incident " which part of the rules don't either of you understand ". I accept it was handbags but that's not the point, he raised his hand into Corks face- under the rules it's a red card.

So that’s basically an admission that the on field and VAR ref cocked it up. Any consequences for them?

It strikes me that whilst the concept should be good for the game, in practice you have scrutineers who see it as their duty to be negative.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:45 pm

All three recent successful appeals (1 Southampton & 2 West Ham) have all come about after VAR intervened following correct on field decisions.

Shocking.

I like VAR but it’s the human interpretation of the technology that is causing the problem and that proves it.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:02 pm

Shocking.

I like VAR but it’s the human interpretation of the technology that is causing the problem and that proves it.

Which shows it doesn’t work. In these cases it’s not using technology at all but someone else’s opinion.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:10 pm

Which shows it doesn’t work. In these cases it’s not using technology at all but someone else’s opinion.

Agree. I wouldn’t mind captains having a certain number of referrals if they disagree with an on field decision. Then just use it routinely for offsides (when goals are scored) and pens.

As much as I like it though, I’m coming to the conclusion it’s spoiling the enjoyment for too many so will have to go.

ClaretEngineer wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:58 pm

Very similar situation that Ashley Barnes didn’t find himself in against Matic.

I wonder if that scenario cropped up in defence of Balbuena...

...not that it needed to. Was never a foul. Makes you wonder what people are seeing at VAR HQ.

VAR needs to be manned by professional none football people

Don’t think it needs to be “none football”, but I do think it should be an ex-professional alongside a referee.
That way you’ll have somebody who has experience in playing and how things happen in the moment, alongside somebody that “should” know the laws of the game

A Super VAR is needed to reassess the bad decisions given by the "normal" VAR.
Maybe thats a bridge too var though.

In slow motion, from the side angle, it looks like two separate movements, striking the ball and then a slight change of direction during the follow through.
In real time, which is the one that matters, no foul.

common sense prevails.

that referee should be made to apologise directly to the player.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:00 pm

So that’s basically an admission that the on field and VAR ref cocked it up. Any consequences for them?

Is that a rhetorical question, what do you think, of course there won't be any comeback for the officials, just look at the farcical display of Rob Jones at Elland Road, and he's still getting regular PL gigs.

I thought the whole concept of VAR originally was to correct any clear and obvious errors, well if that red card wasn't a clear and obvious error then I don't know what is, and yet the VAR official simply backed up his colleague which they often do, instead of putting his neck on block and telling him he was in the wrong.

I'll await to see whether Kavanagh and whoever was on VAR are appointed any PL games this coming weekend or not, that's usually a sign as to whether they are on the naughty step or not.

Can anyone answer this?
We've all seen the lines where any part of a player can be seen to be offside, but are they drawn when rthe ball leaves the foot of the player making the pass or when the ball strikes his foot?
There is a tiny difference sometimes.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:40 pm

Is that a rhetorical question, what do you think, of course there won't be any comeback for the officials, just look at the farcical display of Rob Jones at Elland Road, and he's still getting regular PL gigs.

I thought the whole concept of VAR originally was to correct any clear and obvious errors, well if that red card wasn't a clear and obvious error then I don't know what is, and yet the VAR official simply backed up his colleague which they often do, instead of putting his neck on block and telling him he was in the wrong.

I'll await to see whether Kavanagh and whoever was on VAR are appointed any PL games this coming weekend or not, that's usually a sign as to whether they are on the naughty step or not.

Even worse, the ref didn’t actually give the ref card did he? I thought the VAR called him over to the monitor, which in itself causes problems as the referee is the pressured into thinking there is a decision to make. So the VAR actually contributed in making a bigger hash of the original decision. No VAR, no red card in that scenario (unless I’ve misremembered the incident?).

Does the ref have to ask VAR to get involved, or do the VAR people make these decisions?

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:49 pm

Even worse, the ref didn’t actually give the ref card did he? I thought the VAR called him over to the monitor, which in itself causes problems as the referee is the pressured into thinking there is a decision to make. So the VAR actually contributed in making a bigger hash of the original decision. No VAR, no red card in that scenario (unless I’ve misremembered the incident?).

The ref viewed a replay on the monitor after consultation with the VAR official, but you're 100% correct the final call was the ref's in theory, however everybody knows that when they watch it back in slow motion it often looks worse than at real speed, and usually this leads to more red cards than would otherwise be the case, so your right that the VAR official intentionally or not put additional pressure on Kavanagh while not having to make the big call himself.

David Moyes has called it out and quite rightly, and he's also spot on with this comment. West Ham boss David Moyes said the original decision had been made by someone "who's never played the game".

TBF to the officials the players don't help them with all the diving and feigning of injuries, and just maybe if this behaviour was stamped out of the game we'd get more correct calls by the refs.

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:22 pm

Don’t think it needs to be “none football”, but I do think it should be an ex-professional alongside a referee.
That way you’ll have somebody who has experience in playing and how things happen in the moment, alongside somebody that “should” know the laws of the game

not sure. You'd just have positional bias: strikers saying he was touched so right to go down, and defenders saying no, hardly touched him, was never a pen,for example.

The onfield referee did not originally see anything at all wrong with the incident and the ball had been cleared some 60 yards upfield and then went out of play.
It was the intervention of VAR which summoned him to the monitor and he then made a ludicrous decision to issue a red card.

The referees that post on a board in which I am involved differ in their opinions. The older end think that is was ludicrous and just a coming to after a good clearance, the younger end, in the main, think that it was a deiberate act and that a red card was correct. These are the upcoming officials for the future.

I never liked VAR because all it has done is introduce 2 more opinions on any decision they with to scrutinise. I have said many times before that we now have 6 officials doing a job that used to work reasonable well with just 3. Then when it comes down to what we used to call assessors --that is now a committee who watch a video of the match --there is a lot more to it but I am not going into that.

Chris Kavanagh will be refereeing Brighton v Leeds this weekend and his VAR man last week, Peter Bankes, will be VAR at Spurs v Sheffield United.
Kavanagh will also be VAR for the Newcastle v Arsenal match.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:30 pm

Now now elwa we don't live in North Korea steady on, it is incredible that between them neither the on field officials or the VAR ref could somehow come to the correct decision on the day, but thankfully sanity has prevailed in the end.

Yes!.....but Wet spam lost the chance to equalize, damage done.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:40 pm

Is that a rhetorical question, what do you think, of course there won't be any comeback for the officials, just look at the farcical display of Rob Jones at Elland Road, and he's still getting regular PL gigs.

I thought the whole concept of VAR originally was to correct any clear and obvious errors, well if that red card wasn't a clear and obvious error then I don't know what is, and yet the VAR official simply backed up his colleague which they often do, instead of putting his neck on block and telling him he was in the wrong.

I'll await to see whether Kavanagh and whoever was on VAR are appointed any PL games this coming weekend or not, that's usually a sign as to whether they are on the naughty step or not.

Well I blooming hope they are not. Really need some sanctions for these appealing decisions.

About time there was some assessment of refereeing performances made public. And a league table where they compete for red of the year. I like that idea

There is too much secrecy between the VAR official and the on pitch referee. Let’s hear the dialogue between them and expose them for the incompetents they are.
VAR is needed in the game but not in its present format

If this can be overturned, then Traore should be facing a retrospective ban.

2 different referees looked at this and decided red card (both with the assistance of replays) both these dumb officials should be stood down, not demoted to the Championship and punish them for the refs poor show. It could be a bit like a speed awareness course, they don't need to be banned but let them do a course where they at least understand the game they are in charge of it.

Who determines whether or not an appeal is successful? Is it an ex ref?

What I cannot get over is the fact that the committee who overturned this will have seen identical videos to the matchday referee and VAR. By definition therefore one or more is/are either incompetent, clueless or bent! Action from the football authorities is required even if only an apology.

So a dodgy decision that has been overturned on appeal has, yet again, potentially denied a team a fair result??

Sometimes players collide, its a fact of the game, but it seems more and more than any contact is fast becoming a foul and a booking. Football is a contact sport, not every touch by a player or tackle is a card.
All VAR is doing is proving how useless some officals really are and its fast becoming a lottery.

ClaretEngineer wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:58 pm

Makes you wonder what people are seeing at VAR HQ.

Contact... very quickly becoming the biggest no no in football.