The West Ham five have been absolutely imperious tonight: decisive and dynamic, against a Burnley quartet, who in truth, just haven’t been able to affect the game like they are used to.

West Ham’s quality has shown throughout and sometimes you just have to say that when a department such as their midfield, is as dominant as they have been and create the chances that they have for each other and for Antonio, that they fully merit the victory.

Outplayed despite a close score line. No disgrace against a side who clearly deserve to be playing for a top five place in the league. A game that was well and truly won by a superior West Ham midfield.

Fair play to them. No complaints. Onto the next game!

UTC

Feel like that game was calling for Brownhill in the centre, neither Cork or Westwood have the legs.

KefkaClaret wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:08 pm

Feel like that game was calling for Brownhill in the centre, neither Cork or Westwood have the legs.

Spot on

It shows where we need to strengthen. Pace and creativity in the middle and we’re a completely different side and a threat just like West Ham. The funny thing is we’re probably 2/3 players of that.

The Old Trafford team would have fared better tonight.

Our midfield is comfortably one of the worst in the league. It has been for a couple of seasons now.

Wide players and CMs with technical ability urgently needed this summer.

The wolves result papered over the cracks, in reality the last 5-6 games we have conceded for fun.

bf2k wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:09 pm

It shows where we need to strengthen. Pace and creativity in the middle and we’re a completely different side and a threat just like West Ham. The funny thing is we’re probably 2/3 players of that.

Players like that don't come cheap though.

West Ham were excellent. Disappointed but no complaints.

If you just watched the performance and not the team and player names you could easily have passed them as Liverpool.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:10 pm

Players like that don't come cheap though.

No but 1 or 2 over consecutive windows builds a squad. Unfortunately we know the story of that failing.

Problem is the likes of Cork. Westwood and Brownhill all in the same side will give you a lack of creativity like we had today. However, through a Defour in there and the game changes.

For the second time this season Antonio returns from injury and scores all 3 goals against us, including the winner at the London Stadium.

His pace and power makes a real difference when they play us.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:10 pm

Players like that don't come cheap though.

Clubs with ambition strengthen every year and not wait until the thoroughbreds are only fit for glue. As fans we know this but I'm afraid the fact we are a bottom feeder is now really taking affect.

Edit - Take nothing away from West Ham, they were excellent again tonight.

I think it was one of the best performances I've seen from an away team at the Turf for ages. The op is correct their midfield was so far ahead of us in strength, pace, technique and desire. I've been saying for eighteen months on here we need a total upgrade in midfield if we are going to compete at this level.

bf2k wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:11 pm

No but 1 or 2 over consecutive windows builds a squad. Unfortunately we know the story of that failing.

Problem is the likes of Cork. Westwood and Brownhill all in the same side will give you a lack of creativity like we had today. However, through a Defour in there and the game changes.

I agree, every summer we should have been looking to sign at least one player who improved our starting eleven. As it is you're probably going back to Chris Wood in 2017 who was the last player we signed who immediately improved our starting line up.

To get players like Fornals, Soucek and Coufal you also need an overseas scouting network which we have been lacking for many years now.

Wasn't Westy player of the year last year for most? Short memories for some.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:19 pm

I agree, every summer we should have been looking to sign at least one player who improved our starting eleven. As it is you're probably going back to Chris Wood in 2017 who was the last player we signed who immediately improved our starting line up.

And every time another of our over 30s signs a new contract most folks seem pleased. We're going to end up with an old slow squad with no resale value.

Coufal was £5.4m. Bet he's worth a lot more than that now.

randomclaret2 wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:21 pm

And every time another of our over 30s signs a new contract most folks seem pleased. We're going to end up with an old slow squad with no resale value.

To be quite honest, I think many fans are pleased because they don't see much sign or intent to bring in anybody new. As the last couple of windows has demonstrated.

Commy wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:26 pm

Coufal was £5.4m. Bet he's worth a lot more than that now.

Ditto Soucek who cost £13.5m.

As a club we need to wake up and realise we need to spend £20-30m every season just to compete. It’s looking like 6 years in the premier league. We all need to realise we’re established and belong in this league. Let’s act like it and recruit properly:

As talented as those guys are, the space available for them was criminal & once again our tactics against teams that can play these attacking midfielders is shown up. It puts our back line in an almost impossible mission with no defensive shielding midfielder able to pick up knock downs or stop some breakaways. Instead, our midfield 2 are too far away to help offensively and just do channel balls, lay off balls to full backs/wingers, or watch the ball flying over their heads from pumps forward from defenders. At the same time they don't even protect the back 4 as they are in no mans land not knowing whether to push and support the second ball or watch out for the counter. Either way, they are usually outnumbered and over-run.
It's no surprise we cant buy a win at home with tactics like these.

Some fans sounded the alarm about failure to capitalise on a good financial position back in 2018.

“But we finished 7th last season”

Many don’t remember.

How long is it since we beat West Ham when some of their fans near rioted and were on the pitch? They've come a long way since then. We just keep plodding along.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:34 pm

How long is it since we beat West Ham when some of their fans near rioted and were on the pitch? They've come a long way since then. We just keep plodding along.

When you stand still in this league, you actually take a step backwards.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:34 pm

How long is it since we beat West Ham when some of their fans near rioted and were on the pitch? They've come a long way since then. We just keep plodding along.

Last season. Twice.

Would like to see us bring some flair players into the club this summer to give us an option to play 3 behind a lone striker. Would give the flexibility to change shape when being overrun in midfield and would hopefully take some weight off McNeil who is our only real creative threat.

All true, but the two goals today were simply bad defending (unlucky for goal 2 after Lowton had been winded and couldn’t head the ball clear from the cross).

That, and Jay’s miss which he should have left for Cork to side foot in, shows that as Dyche often says it is the details at the two ends of the pitch, we commonly allow midfield to be outnumbered.

One of those things. They are a good side this year. We’ll be fine. I expect a thumping win next Monday.

We havent replaced Barton and Dufour, players of quality.

Vino blanco wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:43 pm

We havent replaced Barton and Dufour, players of quality.

Or John Deary

bf2k wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:30 pm

As a club we need to wake up and realise we need to spend £20-30m every season just to compete. It’s looking like 6 years in the premier league. We all need to realise we’re established and belong in this league. Let’s act like it and recruit properly:

That's a classic contradiction, we need to spend 20-30m every season to compete - yet we've been competing in the PremierLeague for 6 years -

I am a big Brownhill fan myself. He has a long career at this club ahead of him. Problem is there are a lot of players here who still aren’t under any threat of being replaced.

Thought West Ham were excellent, no complaints from me. That Coufals delivery was top notch, something we lack from right back.

Cubanclaret wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:48 pm

That's a classic contradiction, we need to spend 20-30m every season to compete - yet we've been competing in the PremierLeague for 6 years -

But the lack of investment is showing.

You know that lack of vision/intelligence astonishes me of some people.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 10:50 pm

Thought West Ham were excellent, no complaints from me. That Coufals delivery was top notch, something we lack from right back.

Nah, Lowts has good delivery. It's his defending, as shown tonight, that he's rubbish at!

Dyche got it wrong I’m afraid. Fornals should have had a straight red for foul on JGB. Had Joey screamed he would have gone. Crap performance

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 11:01 pm

Dyche got it wrong I’m afraid. Fornals should have had a straight red for foul on JGB. Had Joey screamed he would have gone. Crap performance

Yellow card but not a red

DCWat wrote: ↑

Mon May 03, 2021 11:03 pm

Yellow card but not a red

I agree it was a red. He was off the floor and studs up. Now a days that’s red.

West Ham are excellent, but this is also the worst version of us since we were promoted.

Rank bad defending I'm afraid. Nothing to do with the midfield being overrun. Even though that is a massive problem that's been allowed to carry on.

agreenwood wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 7:22 am

West Ham are excellent, but this is also the worst version of us since we were promoted.

It’s always tempting to view the present as worse than the past but I thought 2018/19 was a worse team, at least before Heaton and McNeil entered the side half way through.

Players like Taylor and Westwood played the whole season more or less, and they are better now than they were then. We had a lot of wingers making bitty contributions like Hendrick, Lennon, Brady etc. We had only bought outfield players in the summer who were due to be subs (Gibson, Vydra) and Defour hardly played. So for all the talk about it being Europe that cost us, it was simply a weak squad with a couple of key injuries. Even the Europe qualification was a bit of a red herring the season before - less than a goal a game so built entirely on the defence. Amazingly, we may yet score more goals this season than in the Europe qualification season.

I think the reality is we’ve needed to strengthen ever since 2017/18, and haven’t, that spare money now having gone as part of the club sale.

agreenwood wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 7:22 am

West Ham are excellent, but this is also the worst version of us since we were promoted.

I didn’t see you mention this after our biggest Premier League win last weekend.

I am afraid this type of opposition provide a reality check regarding our midfield. All four looked out of their depth last night. THey just seem to lack the calmness and control required in this division. At times we hack the ball away from defence when other teams play possession. Last night Brownhill was happy to hack one ball away with no one near to him -straight to their player and that led to their second goal. With the first goal McNeil tried to dribble out of trouble-it led to their first goal. Our defenders are happy to head balls away when those of other teams chest it and keep possession

It was an inept performance by too many
Lowts was exposed too many times and not cutting out crosses leads to goals
Dwight was particular poor and should have been subbed far earlier
Barnes Jay and JBG improved us but again Sean's sub usage was poor

It wasn’t that bad. They are a very good side and I think we actually played alright. I do believe brownhill in the middle was the way forward tonight for the extra athleticism he provides which allows him to break up play very well.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 9:24 am

I didn’t see you mention this after our biggest Premier League win last weekend.

We’ve had several big results this season and we will stay up, but we may yet end up with our smallest points tally since we came up this time around and crucially we’ve struggled to beat the worst sides in the division (one win so far against anyone from Brighton down).

If you think this team is on a par or better than previous iterations of this team, then I’m ok with it. It’s your opinion. Mine is that we’ve frequently looked stale and that we’re on a downward trajectory without some significant changes to the squad.

agreenwood wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 am

We’ve had several big results this season and we will stay up, but we may yet end up with our smallest points tally since we came up this time around and crucially we’ve struggled to beat the worst sides in the division (one win so far against anyone from Brighton down).

If you think this team is on a par or better than previous iterations of this team, then I’m ok with it. It’s your opinion. Mine is that we’ve frequently looked stale and that we’re on a downward trajectory without some significant changes to the squad.

Wholeheartedly agree

agreenwood sums it up pretty well, I think.
Certainly, urgent investment is required.

Can't just keep relying on the manager to perform minor miracles.

agreenwood wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 am

We’ve had several big results this season and we will stay up, but we may yet end up with our smallest points tally since we came up this time around and crucially we’ve struggled to beat the worst sides in the division (one win so far against anyone from Brighton down).

If you think this team is on a par or better than previous iterations of this team, then I’m ok with it. It’s your opinion. Mine is that we’ve frequently looked stale and that we’re on a downward trajectory without some significant changes to the squad.

We look a player or two short of the standards we've set ourselves over the past few seasons, but the impact of form, confidence and the sheer workload over the 12 months or so since the restart of last season can't be underestimated. Everyone will benefit from a break this summer - but it will benefit us more than most (and we might see the benefit of having fewer full international involved in the Euros when next season kicks off).

But it is a big summer. Tarkowski's performance levels look to me to have dropped a few notches, and it might be in everyone's interests if he moves on this summer as a result. In midfield, I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong, but since Defour finished we've lacked the ability to put our foot on the ball and manipulate teams when we get it (Cork is by a distance the best of him, Westwood and Brownhill in that regard, but he's no Defour). McNeil at his best has helped us manage that by coming narrow, but given the paucity of our options out wide that leaves us lacking a creative outlet further up the pitch - and Vydra, whilst he's done well, hasn't really shown the composure or surety of touch to suggest he's a long term solution. Ultimately the lack of support he lent the midfield, and his inability to make the ball stick, were two fundamental issues we had last night (which despite his awful miss, Rodriguez helped us address in the final half hour when he came on, albeit whilst chasing the game).

We're coming to the end of a cycle and the rebuilding job was always going to be significant. If we only lose Tarkowski this summer, an up and coming centre back plus an experienced alternative at the back, and a couple of new wide players (not least to give us the option of moving McNeil into the 10 role), would be a decent down-payment on that rebuilding job. We don't need loads and loads of extra bodes- we've got a deeper squad in many places than is given credit for, and few managers want to operate with more than about 22 senior pros - but we do need quality to replace Tarkowski and in those wider areas.

While WH played a strong slick game and were by far the better team ( just look at their talent ) they scored 2 tap ins and didn’t trouble Pope into a save as such. But some of the vomit inducing praise heaped on them like they’re the holy grail of football is just nauseous .We’ve been in a relegation struggle most of the season and are generally pretty poor and on a very gradual downward spiral , while were no better than bang average we stayed in the game right to the death