• Burnley v Leeds - Match Day Thread

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 9:55 pm**

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat May 15, 2021 7:39 pm
You know what I do owe you an apology. I got you mixed up with FCBurnley who was going on about how much trouble Aloski would be in.

Though your comments to me now are a little contradictory

brexit "Aliovski - that was an eastern European monkey chant"
krbfc "No it wasn't. You may want to re-think what you type, accusing him of racism online isn't smart."
You to krfbc "It would appear that the incident will be included in the Refs report. Perhaps you can be an expert witness?"

So you are accusing me of jumping on the bandwagon to brand someone racist (when I havent accused anyone of being racist) whist siding with brexit branding Alioski of being racist without any proof to support it. You'll have to tell me how this makes sense.

Anyhow I still apologise for my earlier responses to you as they were not fair to the posts you had made on this

My comment was that the incident has (subsequently) been reported and as KRBFC doesn’t think that gesture is a racist monkey face he may want to share his expertise with the FA.

I have made no comment on whether it’s racist, it was meant to be racist or perceived by McNeil as being racist.

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 10:15 pm**

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑
Sat May 15, 2021 9:55 pm
My comment was that the incident has (subsequently) been reported and as KRBFC doesn’t think that gesture is a racist monkey face he may want to share his expertise with the FA.

I have made no comment on whether it’s racist, it was meant to be racist or perceived by McNeil as being racist.

Ok but there was more context to KRBFC's post as his response was to someone who was clearly suggesting Alioski had been racist.

Following the thread of the conversation it read that in a conversation between one person stating Alioski was being racist and one person was warning him to be careful about accusing someone of being racist you challenged the latter not the former.

Not sure why out of those two comments it was KRBFCs one that urged to respond as from your comments to me Id have thought the person chucking racism accusations about would have been more of an issue.

As I said I got you mixed up with someone else so my responses to you were poor and for which Ive apologised

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 10:18 pm**

By the way we dont know what has been reported to the ref exactly and if it is Alioski's facial gesture its not clear if it was a monkey face or a childish face pull.

Lets wait and see what the officials have to say before we make a judgement

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 10:22 pm**

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat May 15, 2021 10:15 pm
Ok but there was more context to KRBFC's post as his response was to someone who was clearly suggesting Alioski had been racist.

Following the thread of the conversation it read that in a conversation between one person stating Alioski was being racist and one person was warning him to be careful about accusing someone of being racist you challenged the latter not the former.

Not sure why out of those two comments it was KRBFCs one that urged to respond as from your comments to me Id have thought the person chucking racism accusations about would have been more of an issue.

As I said I got you mixed up with someone else so my responses to you were poor and for which Ive apologised

I didnt read every post so haven’t got the context you had. His post was made before it was known that the incident had been reported. We have crossed wires, that’s all, we’ve had bigger disagreements

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 10:26 pm**

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑
Sat May 15, 2021 10:22 pm
We have crossed wires, that’s all, we’ve had bigger disagreements

Isnt that the truth

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 10:37 pm**

Alioski is an extrovert well known for his childish behaviour including pulling ridiculous faces. This ones going nowhere in my opinion

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 10:43 pm**

According to Leeds fans on twitter it is ok to be racist if you are a bit of a joker and get provoked. Good to know!
How anyone can defend and condone that gesture and behaviour is beyond me. I am disgusted.
And if you can’t see anything wrong with that gesture and what it could be interpreted as, and why it made one of our players upset then that says a lot about yourself. I for one would never like to meet you. If I did I would fear for the structural integrity of your nose.

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 10:53 pm**

If you are replying to me I suggest you look at your own behaviour

Posted: **Sat May 15, 2021 11:11 pm**

Looked like a Monkey face to me , pretty shocked tbh . Perhaps why Dwight was immediately hooked . If this had been a Burnley player making the same gesture at let’s say Rashford or Sterling there would have been absolute uproar

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:00 am**

None of us know what happened yet or what has been reported. However the ref and 4th official stop the game to speak to the managers and McNeil gets substituted.

That would suggest to me that something had happened that isn’t just based on pulling a face.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:22 am**

At best the gesture was stupid and I’ll advised and we know what it could be at worst. For what it is worth I don’t personally think it was meant as a racist gesture but it certainly does look like one. To be honest there is little difference between this incident and Jay Rod with Geeton Bong neither look great But both probably not racist. I think those who were happy to stick up for Jay need to take a step back and reavaluate it.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 8:11 am**

JarrowClaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 16, 2021 2:22 am

To be honest there is little difference between this incident and Jay Rod with Geeton Bong neither look great But both probably not racist. I think those who were happy to stick up for Jay need to take a step back and reavaluate it.

People on here can't tell the difference between their arse and elbow, contradict their opinion to be blindly biased.
The truth is, you can watch the video of the two incidents (spitting and face pull) 10000 times, you still can't tell me 100% either incident is racist/not racist.

There is very little balance in 2021, everyone just wants to pile on quickly and follow like sheep, objective people are a minority and it's deemed a negative.

because you can't say either incident is 100% intentional, you can't punish them (and obviously deem them guilty).

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 8:25 am**

There is a big difference between telling someone their breath smells which has no real racial relevance and pulling a face which is being construed by some as a monkey gesture. I'm not sure it was meant in that way, but can see why it could be interpreted that way and thus that would be categorised as a clear overtly racist gesture.
It's pretty simple really.
The only other aspect is verbal which we didnt have access to on either occasion. Lip reading experts couldnt say Jay had said anything untoward. If Alioski has said something which could be construed as racist and then made that gesture immediately afterwards he could be in big trouble.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 8:32 am**

Elizabeth wrote: ↑
Sat May 15, 2021 10:37 pm
Alioski is an extrovert well known for his childish behaviour including pulling ridiculous faces. This ones going nowhere in my opinion

This probably will go nowhere. Only Alioski knows his intentions when he made the gesture and he's never going to admit that it was a monkey face. Unless of course something was also said that can be proved.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 9:44 am**

Nobody can say for certain if it was racialy motivated or not, what i will say when i was younger and you pulled that face at your mates you used to put your thumbs where your temple is, i would also suggest that if you watch the clip in slow motion his mouth movement looks like he may be making a noise as he does it, I could be totally wrong it is just how it looks to me.https://twitter.com/Punjabi_whites/stat ... 7919588355

edit to include clip

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 9:49 am**

I wasn’t sure about what was happening at that stage, as I was dubbing in and out of the game, but if it was racial, shouldn’t Dyche should have removed the team?

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 9:52 am**

jackmiggins wrote: ↑
Sun May 16, 2021 9:49 am
I wasn’t sure about what was happening at that stage, as I was dubbing in and out of the game, but if it was racial, shouldn’t Dyche should have removed the team?

I’m sure he would have but no one knew where they were

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 9:52 am**

Sorry, ‘dibbing’ …………predictive texting is one of the banes of my life !!!

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 1:42 pm**

ClaretMat wrote: ↑
Sun May 16, 2021 8:25 am
There is a big difference between telling someone their breath smells which has no real racial relevance and pulling a face which is being construed by some as a monkey gesture. I'm not sure it was meant in that way, but can see why it could be interpreted that way and thus that would be categorised as a clear overtly racist gesture.
It's pretty simple really.
The only other aspect is verbal which we didnt have access to on either occasion. Lip reading experts couldnt say Jay had said anything untoward. If Alioski has said something which could be construed as racist and then made that gesture immediately afterwards he could be in big trouble.

I don’t disagree with the difference but my point was more around they are both reasonably innocent gestures in my opinion (idiotic and childish accepted) that can both be misconstrued as racist. Don’t forget we only have Jays word about what was meant by his gesture we don’t actually know only Jay does admittedly I believe what he said( I would though I support Burnley). Dwight said something to him before the gesture which we can only suspect wasn’t complimentary we don’t know what was said let’s hope it only included him being accused of being a diving cheat or words to that effect.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:11 pm**

Just seen this incident again and I’m far from ‘woke’ on this kind of stuff, but to me it seems very suspicious. My guess would be that if this was, say, JBG, Alioski would react differently. But who knows?

I’ve then seen other incidents involving Alioski. Two of them were Arsenal players, Saka and Pepe. There does seem to be a pattern.

Of course nobody can prove or disprove anything, and it shouldn’t necessarily be relevant that Alioski comes from a part of the world notorious for attitudes on race. Much may depend on whether the FA go off “proven guilty” or “balance of probabilities”. Obviously for a criminal offence, it is the former, but for a football ban, I’m unsure.

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:18 pm**

Many happy to load the gun though

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2021 2:54 pm**

Surprised nobody has mentioned Dwights face when he was substituted. He looked absolutely shell shocked to me and it was not because he was subbed. Dyche clearly pulled him to avoid further trouble. I don’t have a clip of Dwight going off but if anybody has it would be interesting to see. As for Alioski antics they were simply not acceptable during a PL game. Firstly he feigned injury. Secondly he pulled his tongue out. Third and fourth he made the face twice. Once at Dwight and once at our bench. Ian Woan was clearly shocked. So what he did was clearly very wrong. It is just a case of what level of wrong. We will find out in due course

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:43 pm**

Did this go any further

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:27 pm**

pureclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:43 pm
Did this go any further

Last I heard it was still being investigated but it’s four weeks ago now so I would have thought the FA have decided there is no case to answer.

The suggestion in the post above yours suggesting it was the reason Dyche pulled him is not the case. JBG was already waiting to come on ahead of the incident.

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