I hate to say it but the only positive from today from me is that the score and the way we played was a reality check.The only players that played with any passion were Taylor, Vydra and Taylor. This squad is in need of a major overhaul, and we have several weeks before the window opens to get the planning in place

For me if we needed any proof. BFP cannot step up to No 1 keeper. Rodriguez who I understand is unhappy about not being a starter is not up to playing in the Pl, as is Barnes. We criticise SD for delaying his subs but with a third of the game to go BOTH strikers were changed, when Vydra was the only threat we had, from then the team was weakened. We had the chance to play JBG on his favoured left side, so what happens he plays on the right.

Cant forget something SD said pre-game, that now we were safe the players could play with their shoulders more relaxed. A shocking performance, and sadly there have been too many. Any predictions v Liverpoool ??. I think SD needs to tell them prior that game that a few are playing for their future

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 2:37 pm

I hate to say it but the only positive from today from me is that the score and the way we played was a reality check.The only players that played with any passion were Taylor, Vydra and Taylor. This squad is in need of a major overhaul, and we have several weeks before the window opens to get the planning in place

For me if we needed any proof. BFP cannot step up to No 1 keeper. Rodriguez who I understand is unhappy about not being a starter is not up to playing in the Pl, as is Barnes. We criticise SD for delaying his subs but with a third of the game to go BOTH strikers were changed, when Vydra was the only threat we had, from then the team was weakened. We had the chance to play JBG on his favoured left side, so what happens he plays on the right.

Cant forget something SD said pre-game, that now we were safe the players could play with their shoulders more relaxed. A shocking performance, and sadly there have been too many. Any predictions v Liverpoool ??. I think SD needs to tell them prior that game that a few are playing for their future

Ridiculous quantity of knee jerking.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 2:37 pm

I hate to say it but the only positive from today from me is that the score and the way we played was a reality check.The only players that played with any passion were Taylor, Vydra and Taylor. This squad is in need of a major overhaul, and we have several weeks before the window opens to get the planning in place

For me if we needed any proof. BFP cannot step up to No 1 keeper. Rodriguez who I understand is unhappy about not being a starter is not up to playing in the Pl, as is Barnes. We criticise SD for delaying his subs but with a third of the game to go BOTH strikers were changed, when Vydra was the only threat we had, from then the team was weakened. We had the chance to play JBG on his favoured left side, so what happens he plays on the right.

Cant forget something SD said pre-game, that now we were safe the players could play with their shoulders more relaxed. A shocking performance, and sadly there have been too many. Any predictions v Liverpoool ??. I think SD needs to tell them prior that game that a few are playing for their future

Taylor, Vydra and Taylor!

He’s that good is Charlie!

I'm pretty sure our transfer policy won't be decided by a defeat today

Substitute to read Vydra Taylor Westwood as the only ones that seemed to be up for it, and as if the score was hurting them

Don't agree with a lot of the op, but today could be a blessing in disguise, it's perfectly clear that we need better recruitment in the next window, and if that means moving a few out then so be it.

Equally it could just be that the players out so much into the Fulham game understandably, that they were running on empty today, and when you've got a Leeds team in that mood with their pace that lack of energy is always going to be exposed.

Some of those on view are looking jaded. One or two 'household's names as far as we are concerned and I agree with the OP that the current squad is beyond tinkering with. If ever a game highlighted the need for pace then it was this one. Sadly lacking all over the pitch. Yes, we had chances to stay in the game but their keeper did his job and I was relieved it was just 4 at the final whistle.Our job was completed last Monday but the idea that this was the type of game where we could relax more and just play didn't materialise and rarely does, it seems, for us. I just want the final whistle at Sheffield to be blown now but am under no illusion that we can improve on this season with just one or two changes.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 2:43 pm

Ridiculous quantity of knee jerking.

Nine home games without a win-a club record for us in 120 odd years, does not sound like knee jerking

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 2:54 pm

Nine home games without a win-a club record for us in 120 odd years, does not sound like knee jerking

Home/away has never meant as little as it does this season. May as well count the number of consecutive games we’ve lost against teams beginning with L.

On the knee jerking;

’The only players that played with any passion were Taylor, Vydra and Taylor.’
Not true

’This squad is in need of a major overhaul’
Not true and never going to happen.

’I think SD needs to tell them prior that game that a few are playing for their future’
The epitome of knee jerking.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 2:54 pm

Nine home games without a win-a club record for us in 120 odd years, does not sound like knee jerking

During which time we’ve won 5 away games

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 2:46 pm

I'm pretty sure our transfer policy won't be decided by a defeat today

We haven't got a transfer policy !!!

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:02 pm

We haven't got a transfer policy !!!

Neither did Fulham's spend of over 100 million a couple of seasons ago.

I suspect we will add a little bit of quality in the summer which is all we can ask for (and hope we keep hold of our key players)

Anyone thinking that this squad is going to get a major overhaul needs to be prepared for serious disappointment over the summer.
Not sure Tarks will be going, simply because I can’t see anyone being interested in his recent form so we won’t need a replacement there.
I see 2/3 coming in over the summer and I’m not convinced they’ll walk into the first 11.

I honestly don't think the OP is blatant knee jerking. It's summing up what has been apparent pretty much all season and I don't believe it's based solely on today. The opening post, like our mounting issues on the field, goes far deeper than that.

The need for a major overhaul gets nearer, simply because of the lack of continued investment over recent windows.

Bringing in four or five could be considered a serious overhaul, but it would be pretty easy to identify four or five positions that are in need of improving - be that a first team ready improvement or an adequate understudy.

The one good thing about today , is that Mr Pace was in attendance . Was taking Wood , Vydra and McNeil off a crafty move by the boss to show recruitment is needed ?

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:43 pm

I honestly don't think the OP is blatant knee jerking. It's summing up what has been apparent pretty much all season and I don't believe it's based solely on today. The opening post, like our mounting issues on the field, goes far deeper than that.

It's blatant overreacting and knee jerking because these threads appear after defeats but not when we've won or played well. The thing is, the posters that start these sort of threads aren't around so often when we win.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:52 pm

It's blatant overreacting and knee jerking because these threads appear after defeats but not when we've won or played well. The thing is, the posters that start these sort of threads aren't around so often when we win.

I know what you're saying and yes, you're probably right, but as regards some of his points in the OP. There surely is a sensible debate to be had over whether the so often brilliant Barnes still has what it takes at this level and possibly the same debate re Jayrod. And whether if Pope moves on BPF really can plug the gap, because although he doesn't look awful, he does tend to be on the end of some heavy defeats and Pope wins us so many scabby points. He's also right that Taylor had a decent game, despite the scoreline and Vydra wasn't far behind, notwithstanding he had his great chance at 0-1 and didn't put it away. That's not knee jerk, it's giving an opinion I believe has formed over the whole season. But of course, quite naturally, these opinions and debates don't surface when we win. You're dead right there.

The sad thing is we probably played as well as we can overall but just got run ragged by a super fit team whose players interchange positions, and we couldn't cope.

Ben Mees legs had gone by the last goal, but it's not unexpected. It's how we line up with an old squad. Sometimes experience helps us, sometimes we can't keep up physically with the other team.

Typical after the lords mare show performance. After the way we started I was getting hopeful, but we looked tired... a lot of tension will inevitably have drained muscles. Leeds are motoring, the disappointing but nothing more.

I expect one or two into the first team squad, but I don’t think SD would want to bring in multiples and have to spend six months settling everyone in.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:03 pm

I expect one or two into the first team squad, but I don’t think SD would want to bring in multiples and have to spend six months settling everyone in.

No problem there, it's not gonna happen.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 2:44 pm

Taylor, Vydra and Taylor!

Err he played twice as well as any one else.

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:01 pm

I know what you're saying and yes, you're probably right, but as regards some of his points in the OP. There surely is a sensible debate to be had over whether the so often brilliant Barnes still has what it takes at this level and possibly the same debate re Jayrod. And whether if Pope moves on BPF really can plug the gap, because although he doesn't look awful, he does tend to be on the end of some heavy defeats and Pope wins us so many scabby points. He's also right that Taylor had a decent game, despite the scoreline and Vydra wasn't far behind, notwithstanding he had his great chance at 0-1 and didn't put it away. That's not knee jerk, it's giving an opinion I believe has formed over the whole season. But of course, quite naturally, these opinions and debates don't surface when we win. You're dead right there.

No they don't surface when we win and I wouldn't have made the points on the ratings thread about Vydra's costly mistakes had we won. As for Barnes and Jay Rod, both are coming back from injury really, Barnes in particular. Not sure how we can judge them this season given what's happened to them.

I can remember some posters early on in the campaign tipping Leeds for relegation & stating bielsas team would run out of steam eventually, whatever happens regarding recruitment will surely define next season, this seasons just been a warning & I agree with the OP general sentiments there’s nothing knee jerk about getting convincingly beat in your own back yard from a newly promoted side.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:10 pm

No they don't surface when we win and I wouldn't have made the points on the ratings thread about Vydra's costly mistakes had we won. As for Barnes and Jay Rod, both are coming back from injury really, Barnes in particular. Not sure how we can judge them this season given what's happened to them.

As the OP- not knee jerking CT . Think you will find that following the defeats against both Man Utd games, Spurs at home, WHU at home I praised the team-simply because there was a concerted effort on the day. As most fans I can live with losing if the team gave 100%.Today we were poor as evidenced if you look at the player ratings. And as for your comment that we won 5 away games during that winless 9 home games, then all the more reason to have beaten Brighton, WBA and Fulham at home and not lost v Newcastle. There is a degree of complacency with Burnley fans-no ambition to improve. We secured safety on Monday but I am from the school that there were still 9 points to gain and finishing higher than Brighton, Saints, Newcastle and Palace at season end. The £2m per position is surely worth fighting for from a club like ours. You defend Rodriguez who is just back from injury-this guy has genuinely missed more sitters this season than he has scored goals, and however fit him and Barnes are they are easy to mark and take out of the game by the majority of PL defences. Today most Leeds fans will tell you that was their easiest game of the season.

A lot of blame today on Tarks and Mee , but we were absolutely over run in midfield today and also recently v Saints, WHU, and Newcastle.. Next years survival will be even more difficult-what you need is a degree of quality, athleticism, control and creativity in your midfield to survive. Sorry but whilst Cork and Brownhill give us their all they are far from having what it takes to compete in midfield. They can be great squad players but today just emphasised the cracks that exist and how easy we are to break down. The post was written from someone who is as passionate about our club as the majority of our fans

Best thing that could have happened would have been a win, the additional money if it meant we finished higher could be the difference between a signing or nothing.

The best thing that could (should) have happened today was for the manager not to blow smoke up the player's arses for achieving survival in an "emotional" game against Fulham.
If, as he implies, he expected a drop in performance why TF didn't he give a couple of the U23s a bit of experience?

Does show how much of a difference the fans make though. A full house yesterday and it would have been a lot tastier. Leeds may have even boiled over and had a man sent off, who knows. Instead we treat it like a glorified training session. I'm not overly bothered as home games without fans are not home games in my view anyway.

Staying up this season has been a miracle all things considered

I,m still over the moon we’ve stayed up in the best and most competitive league in the world........yesterday a bit of a kick up the ass but hey ho...........let’s hope some serious planning both on and off the pitch is in play ready for a full house in August......

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:03 pm

Typical after the lords mare show performance.

When I went to school it used to be called 'The Lord Mayor's show'.
Or were you referring to something at Ewood?

Bullabill wrote: ↑

Sun May 16, 2021 2:47 pm

When I went to school it used to be called 'The Lord Mayor's show'.
Or were you referring to something at Ewood?

Yes. Freudian slip perhaps. I hadn’t noticed the error, but I only darted on and off I think for a quick catch up while mid doing something else, so I’ll forgive myself

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 6:23 pm

A lot of blame today on Tarks and Mee , but we were absolutely over run in midfield today and also recently v Saints, WHU, and Newcastle.. Next years survival will be even more difficult-what you need is a degree of quality, athleticism, control and creativity in your midfield to survive. Sorry but whilst Cork and Brownhill give us their all they are far from having what it takes to compete in midfield. They can be great squad players but today just emphasised the cracks that exist and how easy we are to break down. The post was written from someone who is as passionate about our club as the majority of our fans

Why should it be anymore difficult to survive next season?

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun May 16, 2021 9:10 pm

Why should it be anymore difficult to survive next season?

Cant believe you are asking me that. Have you not witnessed the ageing and slowing down of some of our players-Cork, Rodriguez, Barnes, JBG. They are miles behind in pace and will only get slower. Have you not noticed the ease that Newcastle recently, WHU, Southampton, Leeds , Spurs all went through us like a knife through butter. recently. In fairness despite some excellent results,the result on Saturday was one waiting to happen. The cracks are there and have been there for a while following our refusal to strengthen the team. Dyche cannot continue to work miracles with the second oldest, and the smallest squad in the PL. I suspect if he is not supported this window he may elect to move on prior to having a further relegation on his CV. All hinges on this Summer my friend-yes we achieved miracles this year but the challenge next year might be one too many if we stand still

At the start of this season you went to great lengths to point out all the great signings other teams had made, yet we're about to hit 40 points for the fifth season in a row.

We are not doing too badly, like a lower mid table Premier league side should be doing, because that's what we are.

Half of our squad is over 30, and they aint getting any quicker or fitter as another high mileage season is added to their alrady high mileage clocks. The squad is crying out for youth, pace, strength and invention.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Mon May 17, 2021 4:29 pm

At the start of this season you went to great lengths to point out all the great signings other teams had made, yet we're about to hit 40 points for the fifth season in a row.

We are not doing too badly, like a lower mid table Premier league side should be doing, because that's what we are.

Interesting view on this season.

I am off the opinion if we don’t strengthen this summer we are one of the favourites to go down. We have been fortunate that the bottom three teams have been truly awful this season.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon May 17, 2021 4:34 pm

Interesting view on this season.

I am off the opinion if we don’t strengthen this summer we are one of the favourites to go down. We have been fortunate that the bottom three teams have been truly awful this season.

Relegated sides do tend to be awful, that's why they end up being relegated.

Yes, we do need to strengthen, I'm in full agreement of that btw.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:02 pm

got run ragged by a super fit team

We did the same to them at Elland Road without the result.

Quite a lot of what has been written here seems really disrespectful of our players and what they have achieved this season. We had a very short turn around, takeover restrictions on signings, a compacted season, and a dreadful start mainly due to injuries, but still this present group of players got stuck right in and turned it around so that we have achieved our principal aim for the season. For that achievement, I think they deserve enormous credit and not being told they're not good enough. Self-evidently they are. Of course we need to strengthen but let's have a little bit of credit where credit is due.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 6:23 pm

As the OP- not knee jerking CT . Think you will find that following the defeats against both Man Utd games, Spurs at home, WHU at home I praised the team-simply because there was a concerted effort on the day. As most fans I can live with losing if the team gave 100%.Today we were poor as evidenced if you look at the player ratings. And as for your comment that we won 5 away games during that winless 9 home games, then all the more reason to have beaten Brighton, WBA and Fulham at home and not lost v Newcastle. There is a degree of complacency with Burnley fans-no ambition to improve. We secured safety on Monday but I am from the school that there were still 9 points to gain and finishing higher than Brighton, Saints, Newcastle and Palace at season end. The £2m per position is surely worth fighting for from a club like ours. You defend Rodriguez who is just back from injury-this guy has genuinely missed more sitters this season than he has scored goals, and however fit him and Barnes are they are easy to mark and take out of the game by the majority of PL defences. Today most Leeds fans will tell you that was their easiest game of the season.

A lot of blame today on Tarks and Mee , but we were absolutely over run in midfield today and also recently v Saints, WHU, and Newcastle.. Next years survival will be even more difficult-what you need is a degree of quality, athleticism, control and creativity in your midfield to survive. Sorry but whilst Cork and Brownhill give us their all they are far from having what it takes to compete in midfield. They can be great squad players but today just emphasised the cracks that exist and how easy we are to break down. The post was written from someone who is as passionate about our club as the majority of our fans

I know I posted on Saturday following the Leeds game, and got blasted for knee-jerking. My point was that the game was a reminder that the cracks were there and widening. I also said most of us except defeat if the effort was there from the team.

Have to say we lost last night but could absolutely not fault the shift and effort put in by the team. In the first half we were exceptional with Mee on the top of his game and Tarks close behind. Such a shame Nick could not start-I am confident we my have held last years League winners, and he has played some blinders v Klopps team

If we can keep Nick,Tarks and McNeil and bring in the right players in the positions every man and his dog know need filling, then with the crowd behind us (and what a difference they made last night), then Turf Moor can become the place again most teams fear.Maybe Alan Pace can lean on SD so that the loan market is not ruled out, plus there are some very good players coming out of contract with other clubs, so hopefully making it achievable and affordable for the club. The lack of competition for places has been a key feature going against us

Such a shame about Barnes-I have been in the camp of getting an extra first team striker-since as Wood has proved, goals keep you in the PL. I think that has helped strengthen the case. What Ashley did was inexcusable

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun May 16, 2021 9:10 pm

Why should it be anymore difficult to survive next season?

When you say the same thing every single year, it's bound to be right eventually.