I’m guessing a lot of them didn’t know, which would make it even less acceptable.dsr wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:35 pmIt still doesn't answer what I asked earlier. When the 132 displaced by hospitality were asked to choose a new seat from among those occupied by phase two people, did they know they were displacing someone who already had that seat reserved for them? Or did they think they were occupying an empty seat?
Re: Phase 2 renewals and Phase 3 update
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
And if that is the case it could lead to another unfortunate episode in the saga, when someone from the displaced 132 take their seats and are told by their neighbours 'you can't sit there, that's XXX's seat, he's had it for the past 20 years'!dsr wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:35 pmIt still doesn't answer what I asked earlier. When the 132 displaced by hospitality were asked to choose a new seat from among those occupied by phase two people, did they know they were displacing someone who already had that seat reserved for them? Or did they think they were occupying an empty seat?
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Numerous promises (most removed now).
A better comparison would be proposing to your Mrs, then claiming you never did when caught in bed with the local Barmaid. The ‘situation changed’ because she the Mrs wasn’t as good looking. The T’s and C’s of engagement mean you can back out at any time anyway.
Just for good measure, you’ve binned all the pictures of the trip to Paris (where you proposed) as this was ‘out of date’.
The fact the wife is raging is just uncalled for.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
It’s not a comparison as such, more a demonstration that failing to do something that you say you will do is not always breaking a promise.
In the main the commitment the club made to the phase 2 supporters has been upheld. Unfortunately there is a relatively small number of people, who for a fairly unique scenario, are unable to retain their previous seat. The same can be said for the fans uprooted for the corporate expansion, but it’s hardly a broken promise. Anyway, as I said to another poster it’s just going round in circles.
Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
I've just spoken to someone who is in the 132. They had 3 seats together and were invited down to the ground to choose new seats. She says that they were just shown a seating plan with vacant seats but there was no mention of the issue of Phase 2 renewers, She was a bit surprised and alarmed when I explained the issue to her.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Not forgetting gaslighting the Mrs by trying to convince her you never agreed to get the milk.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Is every single one of the "132 seats" occupied by a season ticket holder ?
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Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
So we think that the 132 have had a free pick of the 4,000 Phase two seats despite phase two people being told, categorically at the point of choosing the refund option that they would retain their seats......if that is right it’s a shambles that only BFC could find themselves in......on that basis as it stands I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt as surely nobody is so stupid as to think that would be a solid plan!
Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Don't know but as they are at the rear of the stand and fairly central I would guess so.randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 6:45 pmIs every single one of the "132 seats" occupied by a season ticket holder ?
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Did you! And there was silly me thinking that it was true!
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Don’t worry, none of us believed you had a Mrs.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Good for you. Anyway you’re clearly as bored of this conversation as I am.
Repeating a previous post, I’m chuffed that the vast majority of posters on this board are concerned for their fellow clarets, particularly Leisure and Elaine have done a stellar job.
I hope the fallout from this debacle is not too far reaching, those affected can reach a resolution and the club can improve on their communications going forwards.
Fingers crossed now we’re all allowed back in for 21/22!
Repeating a previous post, I’m chuffed that the vast majority of posters on this board are concerned for their fellow clarets, particularly Leisure and Elaine have done a stellar job.
I hope the fallout from this debacle is not too far reaching, those affected can reach a resolution and the club can improve on their communications going forwards.
Fingers crossed now we’re all allowed back in for 21/22!
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Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
My friend who was part of the 132 was not informed they were picking other people's seats however he did ask whether he should wait until after phase 2 to see if there were any better/different seats - the ticket office adviced him there wouldn't be.
He now feels slightly guilty because on reflection they are in a decent spot and likely to be someone else's. Also discussed how people around them will react even though it's not their fault
He now feels slightly guilty because on reflection they are in a decent spot and likely to be someone else's. Also discussed how people around them will react even though it's not their fault
Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
I may be wrong but I find that slightly hard to believe (not what your friend has said btw!), as I'd been told that a number of potential Phase 2 'ers had already told the Club that they wouldn't be renewing and if the Club don't offer a Direct Debit option, then even more most likely also won't renew.Loyalclaret wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 10:43 pmMy friend who was part of the 132 was not informed they were picking other people's seats however he did ask whether he should wait until after phase 2 to see if there were any better/different seats - the ticket office advised him there wouldn't be.
Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
That's rather the point - the ticket office may have known that no better seats would become available from phase two-ers who didn't renew, simply because they knew that all the phase two seats - belonging to those who would renew as well as would not renew - were already available.Leisure wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 11:07 pmI may be wrong but I find that slightly hard to believe (not what your friend has said btw!), as I'd been told that a number of potential Phase 2 'ers had already told the Club that they wouldn't be renewing and if the Club don't offer a Direct Debit option, then even more most likely also won't renew.
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Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
I’d mentioned previously that sitting in the JHL on the back row (we’re part of the 132) we’ve become friends with many people over the 25/26 years. I’ve since contacted four of those friends and they have decided after much thought that after all these years not to renew, partly because they didn’t like the limited choice of seats on offer, the majority being towards the front. I appreciate the club have to move forward and change is inevitable but as you get a bit older part of the enjoyment was catching up with friends sat in and around you, we’ve seen family’s grow up, we’ll certainly miss that.
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Re: Phase 2 renewals
Managed to speak to Elaine (Clare) yesterday teatime. She was able to sort out my request within a matter of seconds. What a wonderful uncomplicated and unfussy lady she is! And within minutes I got an email confirming the changes. Now, if only there were more like her in this world..........
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Re: Phase 2 renewals
Good to hear. I've forwarded your comments onto Elaine.standishclarets wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 11:48 amManaged to speak to Elaine (Clare) yesterday teatime. She was able to sort out my request within a matter of seconds. What a wonderful uncomplicated and unfussy lady she is! And within minutes I got an email confirming the changes. Now, if only there were more like her in this world..........
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Nobody had paid for the seat that the ousted phase 1 season ticket holders chose and there was no guarantee that they would. The communication has been awful but I can’t blame the club for looking after a current season ticket holder just in case somebody decides to renew that seat.dsr wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 3:55 pmI think people generally understood, and have done for over a century, that the T&Cs allow them to be moved if for whatever reason their seats aren't available any more. That has happened to me - I was moved out of the Cricket Field Stand when it became away supporters only. These things happen.
What should not happen is being moved from your seat just because the club has decided another season ticket holder has more rights than you. They shouldn't get round that by making vague promises, or by making promises and then removing them from the website - they should get round it by not doing it.
Are Frank Teasdale and Bernard Rothwell running the club again?
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
The communication has been appalling with conflicting information coming out almost daily. But those who didn't renew for 2020/21 and those who withdrew their money have been told countless times that their seats are safe. There is no way that any phase 1 season ticket holders should be moved into any of their seats.PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:18 pmNobody had paid for the seat that the ousted phase 1 season ticket holders chose and there was no guarantee that they would. The communication has been awful but I can’t blame the club for looking after a current season ticket holder just in case somebody decides to renew that seat.
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Re: Phase 2 renewals
I've made sure Elaine is aware of all the comments made on here about how helpful she has been. That's always been the case I've found. None of the problems have been of her making, she's the one that's continually having to sort out the mess caused by others.standishclarets wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 11:48 amManaged to speak to Elaine (Clare) yesterday teatime. She was able to sort out my request within a matter of seconds. What a wonderful uncomplicated and unfussy lady she is! And within minutes I got an email confirming the changes. Now, if only there were more like her in this world..........
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Re: Phase 2 renewals
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:56 pmI've made sure Elaine is aware of all the comments made on here about how helpful she has been. That's always been the case I've found. None of the problems have been of her making, she's the one that's continually having to sort out the mess caused by others.
I realise this is probably a bit too obvious but those behind the scenes who continually balls things up, have they ever considered asking Elaine the best way to do things.
Only ever had 1 issue with a ticket and that was an away game where a home ticket was sent out, phoned up and my ticket was waiting at their ticket office on arrival.
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Re: Phase 2 renewals
It's about time they did consider asking Elaine - I know she's a friend of mine and has been for more years than either of us care to mention but when it comes to tickets and running a ticket office she more than knows what she's doing. Will be a huge loss when she's no longer there.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:00 pmI realise this is probably a bit too obvious but those behind the scenes who continually balls things up, have they ever considered asking Elaine the best way to do things.
Only ever had 1 issue with a ticket and that was an away game where a home ticket was sent out, phoned up and my ticket was waiting at their ticket office on arrival.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Yes communication has been very poor. I always pay upfront and could not renew due to ticket office closing and suspending sales. I should not be penalised because don’t pay by direct debit. The club should still honour your seats until they know when fans are allowed back in stadiums. Are at least contact STH who didn’t get chance to renew because of lockdown if they are planning to renew are you will lose your seat. And not 2 weeks before phase 2 opening that you have lost your seats and have to relocate.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Therein lies the problem, they shouldn’t have been told that their seats were safe if phase 1 people were having to be moved.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:53 pmThe communication has been appalling with conflicting information coming out almost daily. But those who didn't renew for 2020/21 and those who withdrew their money have been told countless times that their seats are safe. There is no way that any phase 1 season ticket holders should be moved into any of their seats.
I’m not sure why a phase 1 should be refused a seat because somebody may or may not renew. They had the chance to renew like the rest of the people in phase 1.
The whole thing is a mess
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
I would love to know how many phase 2 people have now paid their deposit. I am sure many of us have and we were never intending to be “lapsed” season ticket holders.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
No they didn’t.PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:44 pmThey had the chance to renew like the rest of the people in phase 1.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Every Premier League club has ensured people returning for next season will have had their seats saved. Many of those clubs have also agreed to hold their seats for a further year if they are not comfortable returning.PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:44 pmTherein lies the problem, they shouldn’t have been told that their seats were safe if phase 1 people were having to be moved.
I’m not sure why a phase 1 should be refused a seat because somebody may or may not renew. They had the chance to renew like the rest of the people in phase 1.
The whole thing is a mess
Yes, they should have told phase 2 people their seats were safe and they should have dealt with the displaced people far better than they have.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Really? There was no timeframe where someone would have walked into the ticket office and say, here’s my cash, I’d like to renew my season ticket? I’m talking about renewing for 2020/21 then leaving cash with the club. Everyone had the right to remove their cash from the club but they then can’t expect to be treated the same as someone who left it there for next season.
Just for context, I renewed in phase one and haven’t been moved due to building work for want of a better word. I just think that those who have actually paid for a ticket should be looked after before somebody who hasn’t.
Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
As people weren't able to renew after a certain point in time there must have been a timeframe. When was the close of it?PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 6:15 pmReally? There was no timeframe where someone would have walked into the ticket office and say, here’s my cash, I’d like to renew my season ticket? I’m talking about renewing for 2020/21 then leaving cash with the club. Everyone had the right to remove their cash from the club but they then can’t expect to be treated the same as someone who left it there for next season.
Just for context, I renewed in phase one and haven’t been moved due to building work for want of a better word. I just think that those who have actually paid for a ticket should be looked after before somebody who hasn’t.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
We've been through this all before but as I've previously posted, every Premier League club promised to ensure those who hadn't renewed for 2020/21 would have their seats safe for 2021/22 and some clubs have even gone further and secured them for a further season should they not feel able to come back next season.PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 6:15 pmReally? There was no timeframe where someone would have walked into the ticket office and say, here’s my cash, I’d like to renew my season ticket? I’m talking about renewing for 2020/21 then leaving cash with the club. Everyone had the right to remove their cash from the club but they then can’t expect to be treated the same as someone who left it there for next season.
Just for context, I renewed in phase one and haven’t been moved due to building work for want of a better word. I just think that those who have actually paid for a ticket should be looked after before somebody who hasn’t.
Priorities have changed in the last year for so many people. Our club made pledges and promises that they are now back tracking on.
As for walking into the ticket office with cash - the ticket office closed down in March last year, before the scheduled deadline, which made that impossible. The deadline was extended and then, with no notice, ended.
The mixed messages from the club have been frightening. I was in a meeting during last season when we were clearly told that any game going to ballot would be open to all 2019/20 season ticket holders. That's another one they backtracked on. The list grows longer and longer.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
The whole thing has been a mess, I’ll agree with you on that even though I have my own views on who should be prioritised for Liverpool tickets, seats etc.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 6:44 pmWe've been through this all before but as I've previously posted, every Premier League club promised to ensure those who hadn't renewed for 2020/21 would have their seats safe for 2021/22 and some clubs have even gone further and secured them for a further season should they not feel able to come back next season.
Priorities have changed in the last year for so many people. Our club made pledges and promises that they are now back tracking on.
As for walking into the ticket office with cash - the ticket office closed down in March last year, before the scheduled deadline, which made that impossible. The deadline was extended and then, with no notice, ended.
The mixed messages from the club have been frightening. I was in a meeting during last season when we were clearly told that any game going to ballot would be open to all 2019/20 season ticket holders. That's another one they backtracked on. The list grows longer and longer.
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Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
When I made my decision about leaving my money in or taking back the club gave me this very helpful flowchart so that I could use to help me make my call.
Last edited by arise_sir_charge on Wed May 26, 2021 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
I strongly suspect that your view is entirely the result of you being in phase 1 and therefore safe. But cast your mind back to March 2019. Then it was the other way round. The "pay up front" people were phase 1, paying for their full ticket in March, and the "direct debit" people were phase 2, not starting until April and then only paying in part.PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:44 pmTherein lies the problem, they shouldn’t have been told that their seats were safe if phase 1 people were having to be moved.
I’m not sure why a phase 1 should be refused a seat because somebody may or may not renew. They had the chance to renew like the rest of the people in phase 1.
The whole thing is a mess
But the phase 2 "direct debit" people had been promised they could keep your seats. If you had been told at the end of March that your seat had been sold to someone else in phase 1 because they had paid and the club wasn't certain if you were going to renew, would you have been quite as sanguine about the idea?
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle! I’m not sure what your point is?dsr wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 11:16 pmI strongly suspect that your view is entirely the result of you being in phase 1 and therefore safe. But cast your mind back to March 2019. Then it was the other way round. The "pay up front" people were phase 1, paying for their full ticket in March, and the "direct debit" people were phase 2, not starting until April and then only paying in part.
But the phase 2 "direct debit" people had been promised they could keep your seats. If you had been told at the end of March that your seat had been sold to someone else in phase 1 because they had paid and the club wasn't certain if you were going to renew, would you have been quite as sanguine about the idea?
All I was pointing out is that I have no axe to grind in this, I just think that someone who has purchased a ticket should be prioritised over someone who hasn’t.
The flowchart above is another cock up, if the club knew at that time that some phase 1s were being forced to move seats then they shouldn’t have guaranteed phase 2 that they would keep theirs!
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
But they did and as such should stand by that promise.PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:23 amIf my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle! I’m not sure what your point is?
All I was pointing out is that I have no axe to grind in this, I just think that someone who has purchased a ticket should be prioritised over someone who hasn’t.
The flowchart above is another cock up, if the club knew at that time that some phase 1s were being forced to move seats then they shouldn’t have guaranteed phase 2 that they would keep theirs!
The fact that phase one have paid and phase two haven’t is neither here nor there as phase two haven’t been given an option to pay yet.
Both groups are in essence season ticket holders. The phase two group chose, based on options detailed by the club to take a refund. They shouldn’t be penalised because the club now have to move another group of people.
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Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
That's an interesting flowchart. I hope you didn't base your decision on it.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 10:27 pmWhen I made my decision about leaving my money in or taking back the club gave me this very helpful flowchart so that I could use to help me make my call.
I took my money out. Of the 4 statements for me, only 1 it transpires is correct.
I wasn't able to enter the ballot for 20/21 matches.
1/. Seat reserved for 21/22. Well I've paid my £10, but when I emailed the ticket office,
they wre unable to confirm my seat or even which stand.
2/. Full refund in 3 to 5 working days. More like 30 to 50 working days.
3/. Was correct.
4/. Thankfully the prices are frozen, but if you don't know which stand you'll possibly be in, it's irrelevant.
Apart from that, it's a fairly accurate flowchart.
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Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Thankfully I’ve had it confirmed that my seats are safe.
However if anybody has lost their seat it’s very poor on behalf of the club.
However if anybody has lost their seat it’s very poor on behalf of the club.
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Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
verbally or in writing/email?arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 10:26 amThankfully I’ve had it confirmed that my seats are safe
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Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Via email.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Exactly, up till last season people in phase 2 had always paid up front which has to be better for the club than those paying over say 10 months, but at the end of the day all our money is equal, and so we should all be treated as equal. I think the club should have given phase 2 people 14 days to pay up front for their seats, before selling them off to other supporters, then we could have had no argument at all. But that's to easy.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:51 amBut they did and as such should stand by that promise.
The fact that phase one have paid and phase two haven’t is neither here nor there as phase two haven’t been given an option to pay yet.
Both groups are in essence season ticket holders. The phase two group chose, based on options detailed by the club to take a refund. They shouldn’t be penalised because the club now have to move another group of people.
Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
But what if they aren't in a position to pay upfront? Also, up until last season we didn't have Phase 1 and 2. We just had Early Bird and then a higher price period after that. Finally, they haven't actually sold them off to other supporters, they've allowed those fans in the 132 displaced seats to choose them.davetheclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:54 pmExactly, up till last season people in phase 2 had always paid up front which has to be better for the club than those paying over say 10 months, but at the end of the day all our money is equal, and so we should all be treated as equal. I think the club should have given phase 2 people 14 days to pay up front for their seats, before selling them off to other supporters, then we could have had no argument at all. But that's to easy.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
I agree with you 100% and as i said everyone's money is the same be it up front or by direct debit, and so we should all be treated the same, i'm reading where supporters on the direct debit system feel its bad luck for those in phase 2, and that we are to blame for the position we find ourselves in, but we couldn't pay as i have said before, but we should have been given the chance. We are all supporters of Burnley Football Club and should be treated the same, that's not much to ask for, the club have been glad to have had my money over the last 30 years yet when i asked to pay in full up front in phase 1 i was told i couldn't, but they told me my seat was safe, now its been sold to someone else.Leisure wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 6:01 pmBut what if they aren't in a position to pay upfront? Also, up until last season we didn't have Phase 1 and 2. We just had Early Bird and then a higher price period after that. Finally, they haven't actually sold them off to other supporters, they've allowed those fans in the 132 displaced seats to choose them.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
They should stand by the promise that all phase ones should keep their seats but that isn’t happening either. Phase 1 and 2 are different, clearly, one group have paid and committed to next season, the other group haven’t. Phase 2 aren’t season ticket holders, they are potential season ticket holders. I’m not sure if you’re on the wind up or not by saying that both groups are the same??arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:51 amBut they did and as such should stand by that promise.
The fact that phase one have paid and phase two haven’t is neither here nor there as phase two haven’t been given an option to pay yet.
Both groups are in essence season ticket holders. The phase two group chose, based on options detailed by the club to take a refund. They shouldn’t be penalised because the club now have to move another group of people.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
No they didn’t! Phase 2 could have been people who paid by direct debit and chose to take their money out! People who chose to leave it in should be given priority over them.davetheclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:54 pmExactly, up till last season people in phase 2 had always paid up front which has to be better for the club than those paying over say 10 months, but at the end of the day all our money is equal, and so we should all be treated as equal. I think the club should have given phase 2 people 14 days to pay up front for their seats, before selling them off to other supporters, then we could have had no argument at all. But that's to easy.
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
You really do have a problem with people who didn’t keep their money in the club like you , don’t you ?PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:29 pmThey should stand by the promise that all phase ones should keep their seats but that isn’t happening either. Phase 1 and 2 are different, clearly, one group have paid and committed to next season, the other group haven’t. Phase 2 aren’t season ticket holders, they are potential season ticket holders. I’m not sure if you’re on the wind up or not by saying that both groups are the same??
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Re: Re: Phase 2 renewals - ends on 15th June
Did you pay for the 2019/20 ticket up front and leave it with the club? If so then you’ll be in phase 1, if you chose to withdraw your money then you shouldn’t get the same perks as those who left it in if the perks are limited. I’d love everyone to be able keep they’re own seats but those who have paid and left their cash in should be the club’s priority.davetheclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 6:43 pmI agree with you 100% and as i said everyone's money is the same be it up front or by direct debit, and so we should all be treated the same, i'm reading where supporters on the direct debit system feel its bad luck for those in phase 2, and that we are to blame for the position we find ourselves in, but we couldn't pay as i have said before, but we should have been given the chance. We are all supporters of Burnley Football Club and should be treated the same, that's not much to ask for, the club have been glad to have had my money over the last 30 years yet when i asked to pay in full up front in phase 1 i was told i couldn't, but they told me my seat was safe, now its been sold to someone else.