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It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:00 pm
by tiger76
I don't want to lambast our reserve keepers, but both BPF and Norris have struggled in their brief appearances, and if we sold Nick or he was out injured for any length of time I really would fear the worst, so it's essential we rebuff any advances for Nick's services this summer, as selling him would leave an even bigger hole to fill than Tarks going.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:04 pm
by beddie
Yes I agree unless we get an offer we simply can’t refuse. I’ve mentioned on another thread that I’d have Tom back if Pope goes and still look for another number 2.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:19 pm
by warksclaret
If Nick goes I suggest two good keepers. Heaton would be great and there are some good keepers around-Sam Johnstone for me of WBA has been brilliant this year
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:29 pm
by Erasmus
We generally are more able to hang on to our existing players than recruit new ones, probably because of the wages we can pay and because we have a rather unfashionable image amongst Premier League club. We're not a glamour club. So I suspect our most successful efforts will be in keeping players of Nick Pope's ability rather than signing others of an equivalent standing. Tarkowski may be different because he seems to have a strong desire to move to a higher status club, and probably earn higher status wages.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:36 pm
by warksclaret
Erasmus wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:29 pm
We generally are more able to hang on to our existing players than recruit new ones, probably because of the wages we can pay and because we have a rather unfashionable image amongst Premier League club. We're not a glamour club. So I suspect our most successful efforts will be in keeping players of Nick Pope's ability rather than signing others of an equivalent standing. Tarkowski may be different because he seems to have a strong desire to move to a higher status club, and probably earn higher status wages.
Might all change once Nick has spent Summer with theoretically the best English players in the Euros, and le\rning the deals they are on
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:39 pm
by Down_Rover
Even if we keep Pope I would seek an experienced back up because I don't think BPF or Norris are yet ready for an extended spell in the team.
Heaton is likely to sign for Manure so I suggest someone like Butland or Berkovic.
one thing that struck me yesterday was that Norris had to tell the defenders he was left footed. Surely they should know things like this. it makes you wonder how much the regular first team players know about our back up keepers. Makes their job that little bit harder
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:39 pm
by TheFamilyCat
warksclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:36 pm
Might all change once Nick has spent Summer with theoretically the best English players in the Euros, and le\rning the deals they are on
Are you suggesting he has no idea of how much the best players in the country earn?
There is also the matter of another club wanting to buy him.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:40 pm
by bf2k
No. Sam Johnson at WBA looks a very good keeper as well. I'm sure he'll be a lot cheaper than whatever we manage to get for Pope
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:40 pm
by warksclaret
Erasmus wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:29 pm
We generally are more able to hang on to our existing players than recruit new ones, probably because of the wages we can pay and because we have a rather unfashionable image amongst Premier League club. We're not a glamour club. So I suspect our most successful efforts will be in keeping players of Nick Pope's ability rather than signing others of an equivalent standing. Tarkowski may be different because he seems to have a strong desire to move to a higher status club, and probably earn higher status wages.
Might all change once Nick has spent Summer with theoretically the best English players in the Euros, and learning the deals they are on
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:41 pm
by TheFamilyCat
Down_Rover wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:39 pm
Even if we keep Pope I would seek an experienced back up because I don't think BPF or Norris are yet ready for an extended spell in the team.
Heaton is likely to sign for Manure so I suggest someone like Butland or Berkovic.
one thing that struck me yesterday was that Norris had to tell the defenders he was left footed. Surely they should know things like this. it makes you wonder how much the regular first team players know about our back up keepers. Makes their job that little bit harder
Not acceptable. If he wants to play in our first team he should have to learn to kick with his right foot.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:43 pm
by claretonthecoast1882
warksclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:40 pm
Might all change once Nick has spent Summer with theoretically the best English players in the Euros, and learning the deals they are on
Yup, it is well known that when he went to last World Cup nobody in the squad spoke to him, also in every international break since the world cup they still haven't spoke to him but this tournament they have agreed to talk money.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:03 pm
by boatshed bill
beddie wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:04 pm
Yes I agree unless we get an offer we simply can’t refuse. I’ve mentioned on another thread that I’d have Tom back if Pope goes and still look for another number 2.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:07 pm
by boatshed bill
Not keen on re-signing ex players, myself.
SD and BM identified Peacock-Farrell and Norris so you have to assume that they rated them good enough. There are obviously problems at present but perhaps a summer's work will change things for the better
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:10 pm
by Spijed
In terms of a move, what the likely options for Nick Pope?
Outside of the so called big six clubs, Everton, Leicester and Aston Villa are unlikely to want to replace their keepers.
Are West Ham happy with theirs?
Other than those teams it would be very much a sideways move for him.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:16 pm
by KRBFC
I said the other day I'd take Sam Johnson at WBA if he left. BPF and Norris are rubbish imo
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:37 pm
by ElectroClaret
I really hope he stays, and I don't want to be unkind to Norris and BPF, but in their respective last games for us, they've been less than impressive.
Here's hoping they improve, but they're not up to PL spec at the moment.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:38 pm
by Silkyskills1
It's quite interesting that not long ago on here Nick Pope's kicking and distribution was under scrutiny and cited as the main reason why he would always be behind Pickford in the international pecking order. I think we have seen in our last two fixtures that a good goalkeeper is worth a lot more than his ability to 'chip' a ball out to a wide player. Quod erat demonstrandum.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:39 pm
by gandhisflipflop
i have full faith in SD to get the right man should nick leave
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:41 pm
by warksclaret
claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:43 pm
Yup, it is well known that when he went to last World Cup nobody in the squad spoke to him, also in every international break since the world cup they still haven't spoke to him but this tournament they have agreed to talk money.
As you get more familiar with people you ask more and more questions. Or maybe you are the type that goes to a job interview and before you have even shaken hands with the interviewer you ask how much the job pays
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:49 pm
by Claret_tinted
ElectroClaret wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:37 pm
I really hope he stays, and I don't want to be unkind to Norris and BPF, but in their respective last games for us, they've been less than impressive.
Here's hoping they improve, but they're not up to PL spec at the moment.
Plays one game after not playing for months against two very attacking teams = written off by fickle Burnley fans
Shocker!
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:07 pm
by tarkys_ears
It's the Premier League love.
Make your excuses all you want but neither of our backups are good enough.
Thems cold, hard facts, not people being "fickle"
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:13 pm
by evensteadiereddie
tarkys_ears wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:07 pm
It's the Premier League love.
Make your excuses all you want but neither of our backups are good enough.
Thems cold, hard facts, not people being "fickle"
"Thems" opinions not cold, hard facts.....love.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:14 pm
by tiger76
tarkys_ears wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:07 pm
It's the Premier League love.
Make your excuses all you want but neither of our backups are good enough.
Thems cold, hard facts, not people being "fickle"
For once we agree, I don't consider myself fickle, but if we line up next season with either BPF or Norris between the sticks it'll be a long season.
Thankfully they have only featured in games once we're safe, and not fixtures which we needed the points in.
The problem with having a poor keeper who the defence doesn't trust is this uncertainty transmits itself throughout the whole team, and along with centre half a solid keeper is an absolute necessity to ensure success at any level let alone the PL.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:33 pm
by warksclaret
Think we were spoiled with Nick. Heaton has an injury early in the game, Pope comes on v Palace, none of us know much about him but he makes a worldy save with his feet v Benteke to ensure we get the three points.Suddenly he is a hero. In the following few games he played the game of his life v Liverpool, and several other clubs. Before we knew it we had almost forgotton about poor old Tom and Nick continues to play so well he gets 4 England caps
By contrast this season BPF stands in and looks like a rabbit in headlights. We know he has been poor, because despite his loyalty SD gives the shirt last night to our third choice keeper. He lets a goal in last night that maybe some of our outfielders playing in goal might have kept out, and looked very guilty for the third goal
For me you need two good keepers as your No 1 might put his shoulder out first game of the season. Before you say theres little chance of that happening, it HAS happened twice to us in the past 3 years or so
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:47 pm
by Vegas Claret
unlike a certain other player Pope keeps saying how much he enjoys it here and wants to stay, I suspect given what we've recently seen that it would take mega money for us to sell him
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:53 pm
by boatshed bill
warksclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:33 pm
Think we were spoiled with Nick. Heaton has an injury early in the game, Pope comes on v Palace, none of us know much about him but he makes a worldy save with his feet v Benteke to ensure we get the three points.Suddenly he is a hero. In the following few games he played the game of his life v Liverpool, and several other clubs. Before we knew it we had almost forgotton about poor old Tom and Nick continues to play so well he gets 4 England caps
By contrast this season BPF stands in and looks like a rabbit in headlights. We know he has been poor, because despite his loyalty SD gives the shirt last night to our third choice keeper. He lets a goal in last night that maybe some of our outfielders playing in goal might have kept out, and looked very guilty for the third goal
For me you need two good keepers as your No 1 might put his shoulder out first game of the season. Before you say theres little chance of that happening, it HAS happened twice to us in the past 3 years or so
Whilst not disagreeing about nick Pope vs Palace, I would say that the team were defending better then than they are now.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 6:12 pm
by tarkys_ears
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:47 pm
unlike a certain other player Pope keeps saying how much he enjoys it here and wants to stay, I suspect given what we've recently seen that it would take mega money for us to sell him
Unfortunately "mega money" to us is generally not a lot of money to the clubs that might want him.
I've resigned myself to him leaving. If he stays it'll be a bonus for me.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 6:16 pm
by Vegas Claret
tarkys_ears wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 6:12 pm
Unfortunately "mega money" to us is generally not a lot of money to the clubs that might want him.
I've resigned myself to him leaving. If he stays it'll be a bonus for me.
if we put a 50 million pound fee on his head there will be very few if no takers at that price. We kept hold of Tarks doing that
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 6:27 pm
by KRBFC
Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:38 pm
It's quite interesting that not long ago on here Nick Pope's kicking and distribution was under scrutiny and cited as the main reason why he would always be behind Pickford in the international pecking order. I think we have seen in our last two fixtures that a good goalkeeper is worth a lot more than his ability to 'chip' a ball out to a wide player. Quod erat demonstrandum.
That was never in question though, was it?
Pickford is a far far better shot stopper than BPF or Will Norris.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:05 pm
by Woodleyclaret
Ramsdale would be a decent shout as back up to Nick
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:24 pm
by dougcollins
I really don't like Ramsdale.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:25 pm
by tiger76
Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:05 pm
Ramsdale would be a decent shout as back up to Nick
Would he come though if he didn't think he'd be number 1, plus he wouldn't come cheap, he only signed for Sheff Utd last year for £18m or so, and he's still got 3 years on his deal, I genuinely will be staggered if we spend big on a 2nd choice keeper when we've got other holes in the squad to cover, of course if we sold Nick then yes that would be a different story entirely.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:28 pm
by dougcollins
I'd suggest Ramsdale was partly culpable for the Blades' indifferent season. Though I appreciate Henderson going back to Man u was not their choice.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:28 pm
by boatshed bill
tiger76 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:25 pm
Would he come though if he didn't think he'd be number 1, plus he wouldn't come cheap, he only signed for Sheff Utd last year for £18m or so, and he's still got 3 years on his deal, I genuinely will be staggered if we spend big on a 2nd choice keeper when we've got other holes in the squad to cover, of course if we sold Nick then yes that would be a different story entirely.
No better than BPF in my opinion.
Patience is required. A pre-season with new players (hopefully) and new tactics and the whole picture could change.
I hope we keep NP though.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:38 pm
by tiger76
boatshed bill wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:28 pm
No better than BPF in my opinion.
Patience is required. A pre-season with new players (hopefully) and new tactics and the whole picture could change.
I hope we keep NP though.
I'd like to think we can at least keep hold of NP for another 12 months, and that time should allow SD and the coaches to fully assess BPF and Norris, however even if we do hold onto Nick what happens should he suffer a serious injury in the first few weeks of the season, we'll then find ourselves up the creek without a paddle.
Our mainstays in recent seasons have been Mee, Pope & tarks, and that triumvirate have been absolutely vital to our stay in this league, it's bad enough that we'll probably lose Tarks this summer, but to lose our 1st choice keeper, and the guy who's won us countless points with his displays will be hard to replace.
Hence why we should only sell if we get a crazy offer, and for me that would be £40m upwards, that's how important NP is to us, and if clubs come sniffing we need to play hard ball, as keeping Pope could well be the difference between relegation or not.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:41 pm
by boatshed bill
tiger76 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:38 pm
I'd like to think we can at least keep hold of NP for another 12 months, and that time should allow SD and the coaches to fully assess BPF and Norris, however even if we do hold onto Nick what happens should he suffer a serious injury in the first few weeks of the season, we'll then find ourselves up the creek without a paddle.
Our mainstays in recent seasons have been Mee, Pope & tarks, and that triumvirate have been absolutely vital to our stay in this league, it's bad enough that we'll probably lose Tarks this summer, but to lose our 1st choice keeper, and the guy who's won us countless points with his displays will be hard to replace.
Hence why we should only sell if we get a crazy offer, and for me that would be £40m upwards, that's how important NP is to us, and if clubs come sniffing we need to play hard ball, as keeping Pope could well be the difference between relegation or not.
If we could pull £40m we could bring in a very good goalkeeper, though I have no idea who that might be.
FWIW, my favourite keeper in teams near the bottom is Dubravka. I really rate him.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 9:21 pm
by CleggHall
Why would Dubravka leave Newcastle for Burnley? I can’t think of any good reason.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 9:27 pm
by RVclaret
Sam Johnstone would be the best target and realistic should we lose Nick. Fee of around £10-15m has been touted while we should be looking at £35m+.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 9:30 pm
by boatshed bill
CleggHall wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 9:21 pm
Why would Dubravka leave Newcastle for Burnley? I can’t think of any good reason.
I'm not suggesting that he would, only saying that down the bottom end of the PL he is very good.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 9:38 pm
by tiger76
RVclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 9:27 pm
Sam Johnstone would be the best target and realistic should we lose Nick. Fee of around £10-15m has been touted while we should be looking at £35m+.
Johnstone is perhaps realistic should we need a new goalie, and given West Brom might have to sell we might be able to drive a hard bargain, however I suspect we wouldn't be the only PL club interested in him especially at that money.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 10:15 pm
by Silkyskills1
KRBFC wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 6:27 pm
That was never in question though, was it?
Pickford is a far far better shot stopper than BPF or Will Norris.
I think you've missed the point.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 10:35 pm
by KRBFC
CleggHall wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 9:21 pm
Why would Dubravka leave Newcastle for Burnley? I can’t think of any good reason.
Spent a large part of this season out of favor
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 10:55 pm
by Jakubs Tash
KRBFC wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 10:35 pm
Spent a large part of this season out of favor
He’s been injured for parts of this season - not out of favour.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 11:21 pm
by JohnDearyMe
dougcollins wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:28 pm
I'd suggest Ramsdale was partly culpable for the Blades' indifferent season. Though I appreciate Henderson going back to Man u was not their choice.
Speaking of Henderson, interesting to see how distinctly average he's looked at Man Utd this season after his stellar year at Sheff Utd. Not sure how much a failure to play week in week out has contributed to that though
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 7:43 am
by claretonthecoast1882
warksclaret wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:41 pm
As you get more familiar with people you ask more and more questions. Or maybe you are the type that goes to a job interview and before you have even shaken hands with the interviewer you ask how much the job pays
Point still stands, why this summer ? You think there is a time delay before footballers talk to each other about money ?
As for me being a certain type, this won't shock you but you are wrong again. I have never been for a job interview in my life, working to make someone money for a job I am doing was never for me. I also don't worry about what anybody else earns, I have no interest if 1 man earns 20k a year and the other one earns 200k, so long I make what I want to make my life is fine.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 8:18 am
by clitheroeclaret3
NP missed last 2 games, bbc stats for shots on target
V leeds 4-6
V liverpool 3-3
No goals scored, 7 conceded.
Not sure if it says more about quality of finishing, bad luck but mostly quality of teams goalkeeping??
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:20 am
by Boss Hogg
I’m confident we can keep Pope unlike Tarkowski. I think Tarkowski will be easier to replace for us than Pope. It shows the power of having strong players pushing for players. BPF and Norris are not putting Pope under any pressure which is the problem. You can’t have players knowing they will start even if in a bad run of form
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:29 am
by dushanbe
He's a great keeper but realistically where is he going to go? Rightly or wrongly there's a perception that he can't play football, so which team is going to take him would be my question. Realistically none of the top six, all of whom like to play out from the back.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:35 am
by Newcastleclaret93
dushanbe wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:29 am
He's a great keeper but realistically where is he going to go? Rightly or wrongly there's a perception that he can't play football, so which team is going to take him would be my question. Realistically none of the top six, all of whom like to play out from the back.
I made this point the other week. Who would be able to afford Pope?
None of the top 6 would want him because he can’t play out from the back.
Then you start to go down the list.
Everton - pickford having his best season for Everton (likely win player of season)
Aston Villa - Martinez has been great
Leeds - Meslier has had a good season
Leicester - Schmeichal is arguably one of the best keepers in the league
Pope isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
Re: It is now imperative we keep Pope at all costs
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:36 am
by warksclaret
claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 7:43 am
Point still stands, why this summer ? You think there is a time delay before footballers talk to each other about money ?
As for me being a certain type, this won't shock you but you are wrong again. I have never been for a job interview in my life, working to make someone money for a job I am doing was never for me. I also don't worry about what anybody else earns, I have no interest if 1 man earns 20k a year and the other one earns 200k, so long I make what I want to make my life is fine.
Fair point my friend-but everyone is different in the way they interact