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For sure, I'd argue whatever central defenders we have starting will be at the top end of any quality scale amongst the rest of the squad. I think he's delusional in general, thinks he's considerably better than he is especially with the ball at his feet. What was it he said? ''taking control of my own career''boatshed bill wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:40 pmStandard PL, you could be right, but he's definitely at the top end of the quality scale in our squad.
However if he wants to go, and assuming we get a reasonable fee, we shouldn't stand in his way.
He will be approaching his 30th Birthday if we keep him for 1 more season.
) and more versatile. Salary might be an issue.I think your spot on palNewClaret wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 9:57 pmGlad we have another Tarks thread to discuss the various merits of a move
I will call it - sell one from Pope, Mee, Tarks or Wood and we go down. That’s not to say any are irreplaceable in normal circumstances, but the way our squad depth is currently, they’ve become so. We need to spend this summer strengthening, not letting our best players go. Sadly, that likely means losing Tarks for free next year but in the long term it’s for the greater good. Then we need to make sure we have suitable cover in all positions so that we can sell players on when the time is right.
I think it entirely depends upon what system Rodgers wants to play moving forward when he hasn't got 100 injuries to deal with, 3 CBs or 2.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 10:10 pmLeicester have a spot with Morgan retiring.
West Ham filled theirs with Dawson at a good price.
A bidding war may not materialise sadly.
I really don’t get the unhappy argument mate. I think a player about to bag himself a humongous signing on fee will be able to fight back the upset for a season lasting 8-9 months. Plus he’ll be playing for a contract at as big a club possible, so presumably he’ll want to remain in form for Burnley.
I totally agree Tarks successor should have been bought last summer, and it's not like we weren't aware of Tarks being in the final stages of his current contract 12 months ago, so this scenario could and should have been avoided by the club, but we are where we are now, I'm not against keeping hold of Tarks for another year if he's happy to stay, yes we'll lose him on a free next summer, but hopefully by then we'll have a readymade replacement when he does exit the building, succession planning has been an issue for a few seasons now, and unlike when we sold Michael Keane and had JT ready to step up to the plate, if we sell JT this summer, then we'll either have to source a new partner for Ben from somewhere, or heaven forbid rely on Kevin Long throughout a long PL season, and that scenario doesn't bear thinking about it's gives me nightmares, Kevin Long is fine as emergency cover like at Fulham when Mee was out, but with respect he's not up to the task of playing a full PL campaign, and if he did play a large number of games we'd almost certainly go down.NewClaret wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 9:57 pmGlad we have another Tarks thread to discuss the various merits of a move
I will call it - sell one from Pope, Mee, Tarks or Wood and we go down. That’s not to say any are irreplaceable in normal circumstances, but the way our squad depth is currently, they’ve become so. We need to spend this summer strengthening, not letting our best players go. Sadly, that likely means losing Tarks for free next year but in the long term it’s for the greater good. Then we need to make sure we have suitable cover in all positions so that we can sell players on when the time is right.
Re: along, I think he’d find his stride if he were forced in to an extended run. Although it might be too late by the time he did, I accept that. I think all clubs suffer from their CB understudy’s being far inferior to their main choice pairings - United have some shockers, although their first picks aren’t that good eithertiger76 wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 10:13 pmI totally agree Tarks successor should have been bought last summer, and it's not like we weren't aware of Tarks being in the final stages of his current contract 12 months ago, so this scenario could and should have been avoided by the club, but we are where we are now, I'm not against keeping hold of Tarks for another year if he's happy to stay, yes we'll lose him on a free next summer, but hopefully by then we'll have a readymade replacement when he does exit the building, succession planning has been an issue for a few seasons now, and unlike when we sold Michael Keane and had JT ready to step up to the plate, if we sell JT this summer, then we'll either have to source a new partner for Ben from somewhere, or heaven forbid rely on Kevin Long throughout a long PL season, and that scenario doesn't bear thinking about it's gives me nightmares, Kevin Long is fine as emergency cover like at Fulham when Mee was out, but with respect he's not up to the task of playing a full PL campaign, and if he did play a large number of games we'd almost certainly go down.
But given a run in the team I think they’d settle.Yes I totally understand that Tarks could be in line for a large signing on fee when he's a free agent, and that's one of the reasons he and no doubt his agent might be happy to run down his contract, and then take their chances next summer, Tarks isn't in the top bracket of centre backs, but as a free agent he could well find himself highly sought after, and in a good bargaining position with any interested parties.NewClaret wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 10:13 pmI really don’t get the unhappy argument mate. I think a player about to bag himself a humongous signing on fee will be able to fight back the upset for a season lasting 8-9 months. Plus he’ll be playing for a contract at as big a club possible, so presumably he’ll want to remain in form for Burnley.
I agree that we don’t really want it dragging in to pre-season though - need it sorting, as we do Dyche’s contract assuming we want to sign players this summer!
Leicester like to play out from the back, Tarks is average on the ball even if you compare him to someone like Coady. I'm not saying they or another won't come in for him but defending seems to be a secondary thought to many managers nowadaysGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 10:10 pmLeicester have a spot with Morgan retiring.
West Ham filled theirs with Dawson at a good price.
A bidding war may not materialise sadly.
Very good point.tiger76 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 6:05 pmIf we were considering cashing in on Tarks will Brentford's triumph today cause us to have a change of heart?, the reason I pose this question is that whatever fee we get for him 15% of that goes straight to Brentford, and it's possible they could be a direct relegation rival to us next season, so why should we give them any assistance if that's a possibility, when they were playing in the Champ that was a different story, but now they'll be competing on an equal footing with us, it's not the main reason we should try and keep hold of Tarks, the main reason for keeping him is he's won the last 3 POTS awards, but it must be a consideration in our thinking surely.
I agree the options for Tarkowski do appear to be narrowing, and I'm not aware of any firm interest outwith Leicester & West Ham, so I say the chances are as it stands he's more likely to stay than go, but in this game things can change in an instant.minnieclaret wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 7:06 pmFofana, at Leicester, made the PL team of the year. Last year Soyuncu did. With Evans their rock at the back I’m not expecting them coming back. Hammers have contracted Dawson so there goes another spot for him. SDs presser t’other week made it sound like it was over salary. If so pay him and be done with it. As said above we can’t afford to lose any of Pope, Tarks, Mee or Wood. A holding midfielder to sit in front of T&M and stop the breakaways that are killing us and a wideman are our necessities.
It's 35%, even more reason to keep him.tiger76 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 6:05 pmIf we were considering cashing in on Tarks will Brentford's triumph today cause us to have a change of heart?, the reason I pose this question is that whatever fee we get for him 15% of that goes straight to Brentford, and it's possible they could be a direct relegation rival to us next season, so why should we give them any assistance if that's a possibility, when they were playing in the Champ that was a different story, but now they'll be competing on an equal footing with us, it's not the main reason we should try and keep hold of Tarks, the main reason for keeping him is he's won the last 3 POTS awards, but it must be a consideration in our thinking surely.
Well if your figure is anywhere near correct then yes I totally agree we may as well keep him, however that number sounds high to me, and I thought most sell-on clauses were normally in the 15-20% range, so if Brentford have negotiated 35% they've been very astute in their affairs, of course if we choose not to sell Tarks they'll end up with nothing, as indeed would we if he went on a free in 12 months, but his value is greater to us if he plays his part in keeping us in the PL for another season, so on balance unless we get a crazy offer, which given Tarks is entering the final year of his contract is unlikely, or Tarks simply downs tools, as indeed he did at Brentford in the first place to force his move to Burnley, then I'd keep him, yes he might well choose to simply run his contract down, but there's little we can do about that unfortunately, unless we can somehow persuade him to pen a new deal, but there doesn't appear to be any obvious signs of that scenario happening ATM.
I thought it was 27.5%
Yes that's obviously a factor, and if he really wants away then I can't see how we'll benefit from keeping an unhappy player, or indeed what impact that might have on the dressing room, like it or not the players wield all the power these days, especially a player who's coming towards the end of his contract, however Tarks can only go elsewhere if he has potential suitors, and that may not be the case now, it might have been last summer, but since then Leicester & West Ham have made defensive signings, so it's not guaranteed either will still be courting JT. but yes ultimately if he wants away it'll be better for all if he does go, his performances towards the end of the season didn't give the impression of an unhappy player mind you so that could all be pure speculation.
Possibly but if Stoke's valuation of Nathan Collins is anywhere near accurate we'll struggle to get better than Tarky even for £20m or so, and it's such a key area for us that we have to get this signing right, if we don't it'll probably lead to our relegation, that's how vital it is for us.
We’re not going to get better than Tarks, we may as well face that. Ideally for me, if he was to leave this summer, we’d sign an experienced player to jump straight into the side and a younger player such as Collins (who I’ve never seen) to bed in and develop.tiger76 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:02 pmPossibly but if Stoke's valuation of Nathan Collins is anywhere near accurate we'll struggle to get better than Tarky even for £20m or so, and it's such a key area for us that we have to get this signing right, if we don't it'll probably lead to our relegation, that's how vital it is for us.
That theory is somewhat ignoring the £130m we secure by staying up. Tarks is not just an established PL CB that has kept us in this league for 5+ seasons, he’s done it playing in our system and alongside Mee. I think he significantly improves our chances of staying up every year. Even another experienced player like Dawson or Cahill is not certain to suit our system or develop the understanding with Mee. I’d protect that PL status above all else and accept a good chunk of the money earned from survival will need to go towards a replacement.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:08 pmWe’re not going to get better than Tarks, we may as well face that. Ideally for me, if he was to leave this summer, we’d sign an experienced player to jump straight into the side and a younger player such as Collins (who I’ve never seen) to bed in and develop.
My point is that those who say we may as well keep him because he’s so integral to us avoiding relegation don’t seem to be acknowledging that we will then need to replace him in 12 months time, with less money.
I don't disagree with a lot of that, and this is where our lack of succession planning is beginning to really hit home, we knew last summer that Tarks was coming towards the final stages of his contract and we should have got his replacement in then, not wait a year and now potentially finding ourselves scrambling to fill the backline, we also knew Gibson was likely to go to Norwich which he duly has, so whether Tarks stays or goes we'll need at least one centre back this window, because it's abundantly clear that neither Dunne or Long can be relied upon over the course of a long campaign, so even if Tarks did stay and decide to honour his contract, if either he or Ben was out long term we'd be up the creek without a paddle, as has been illustrated when one or both have been absent this season and we've been all over the place at the back.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:08 pmWe’re not going to get better than Tarks, we may as well face that. Ideally for me, if he was to leave this summer, we’d sign an experienced player to jump straight into the side and a younger player such as Collins (who I’ve never seen) to bed in and develop.
My point is that those who say we may as well keep him because he’s so integral to us avoiding relegation don’t seem to be acknowledging that we will then need to replace him in 12 months time, with less money.
Ok, but you’re only protecting the PL status for one season because it’s looking inevitable that we’ll be without Tarks in 12 months time. We will also have significantly less money to replace him with.NewClaret wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:22 pmThat theory is somewhat ignoring the £130m we secure by staying up. Tarks is not just an established PL CB that has kept us in this league for 5+ seasons, he’s done it playing in our system and alongside Mee. I think he significantly improves our chances of staying up every year. Even another experienced player like Dawson or Cahill is not certain to suit our system or develop the understanding with Mee. I’d protect that PL status above all else and accept a good chunk of the money earned from survival will need to go towards a replacement.
That’s the issue. Ideally we would have blooded his replacement over the past season but unfortunately we’ve been neglectful in that sense.tiger76 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:22 pmI don't disagree with a lot of that, and this is where our lack of succession planning is beginning to really hit home, we knew last summer that Tarks was coming towards the final stages of his contract and we should have got his replacement in then, not wait a year and now potentially finding ourselves scrambling to fill the backline, we also knew Gibson was likely to go to Norwich which he duly has, so whether Tarks stays or goes we'll need at least one centre back this window, because it's abundantly clear that neither Dunne or Long can be relied upon over the course of a long campaign, so even if Tarks did stay and decide to honour his contract, if either he or Ben was out long term we'd be up the creek without a paddle, as has been illustrated when one or both have been absent this season and we've been all over the place at the back.
Absolutely. It’s a poor situation to be in with no good outcome. All of our own making sadly, too.tiger76 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:22 pmI don't disagree with a lot of that, and this is where our lack of succession planning is beginning to really hit home, we knew last summer that Tarks was coming towards the final stages of his contract and we should have got his replacement in then, not wait a year and now potentially finding ourselves scrambling to fill the backline, we also knew Gibson was likely to go to Norwich which he duly has, so whether Tarks stays or goes we'll need at least one centre back this window, because it's abundantly clear that neither Dunne or Long can be relied upon over the course of a long campaign, so even if Tarks did stay and decide to honour his contract, if either he or Ben was out long term we'd be up the creek without a paddle, as has been illustrated when one or both have been absent this season and we've been all over the place at the back.
It’s hard to speculate because we are discussing a hypothetical sale and we don’t actually know the sell-on percentage, but assuming the £20m number and 27.5% we lose £14.5m.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:27 pmOk, but you’re only protecting the PL status for one season because it’s looking inevitable that we’ll be without Tarks in 12 months time. We will also have significantly less money to replace him with.
I’m not advocating that we sell him necessarily. Just pointing out that the sizeable transfer sum that we could get for him, even after Brentford’s cut, cannot be dismissed just because we have a better chance of surviving for one more season in the PL.
Let's have Matip then! I've always liked him although he's not our style of player.
Which suggests to me that we're looking to secure a new centre back early in the transfer window, in case (or in expectation?) JT goes elsewhere.superdimitri wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:00 am...We're so used to hearing nothing until the end. If there's something behind these leaks it means we're trying to get our business started early...
Doing our business so late also has a knock-on effect for the U-23's, if our squad isn't sorted early, young players get held back as cover for the 1st team, so end up not going out on loan to a club at a suitable level for their development. Steve Stone & the rest of the development team must be so frustrated. Hope this is an indication of intent for the youngsters by Pace & co.superdimitri wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:00 amLooking very promising. We're so used to hearing nothing until the end. If there's something behind these leaks it means we're trying to get our business started early and even have multiple targets. If we get shunned by one we should get time to get others over the line.
