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Not sure that’s right, I think it collapsed because the statements supposedly altered where for the Taylor report which wasn’t something for a court of law and therefore no charge of perverting the course of justice could stand.
That is how i read it and whilst not experienced in law or court proceedings, surely any legal person worth their salt could have identified that the charge could not possibly stand. The statements were for an enquiry, which is not a court of law so perverting the course of justice would be impossible to uphold.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:22 pmNot sure that’s right, I think it collapsed because the statements supposedly altered where for the Taylor report which wasn’t something for a court of law and therefore no charge of perverting the course of justice could stand.
You have to question why the CPS ever thought this could stand.Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:04 pmThat is how i read it and whilst not experienced in law or court proceedings, surely any legal person worth their salt could have identified that the charge could not possibly stand. The statements were for an enquiry, which is not a court of law so perverting the course of justice would be impossible to uphold.
It’s not right, it’s bloody wrong.ElectroClaret wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 8:37 pmThere doesn't seem anywhere to go for them now, legally-wise.
Whatever the reasons this didn't get anywhere, it surely can't be right that 96 people were found to have been been "unlawfully killed" and no-one will now (it seems) be held accountable.
I completely agree, it's bizarre to say the leastElectroClaret wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 8:37 pmThere doesn't seem anywhere to go for them now, legally-wise.
Whatever the reasons this didn't get anywhere, it surely can't be right that 96 people were found to have been been "unlawfully killed" and no-one will now (it seems) be held accountable.
And I’ve always believed she was all over this cover up.dougcollins wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:14 pmAnd some of the culprits never get a mention.
If they behave like animals we'll treat them like animals, said Thatcher after asking her pet Home Secretary Whitelaw to erect the lethal fences.
Can't argue with that.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:17 pmAnd I’ve always believed she was all over this cover up.
Without any doubt CT, I believe that tooClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:17 pmAnd I’ve always believed she was all over this cover up.
So it's libellous to have a different opinion to yours?
It's not right it's far from right & the families will want justice & accountability but if that's never going to happen & it's appearing clearly that's the case you can't or anybody can't deny the crumbs of consolation to be some sense of closure & the sooner that happens is the best outcome for all concerned.ElectroClaret wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 8:37 pmThere doesn't seem anywhere to go for them now, legally-wise.
Whatever the reasons this didn't get anywhere, it surely can't be right that 96 people were found to have been been "unlawfully killed" and no-one will now (it seems) be held accountable.
Absolutely no evidence of that. What a sad state of affairs that after the inquiry and inquest people still spout this nonsense.
No it’s not libellous to have a different opinion to mine but what you posted was libellous and nothing to do with my opinion.Top Claret wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:03 pmSo it's libellous to have a different opinion to yours?
It's not unknown for fans to travel without tickets ...but on this occasion none did?ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:44 pmAbsolutely no evidence of that. What a sad state of affairs that after the inquiry and inquest people still spout this nonsense.
Believe what you want. More fans ended up in the stand than should have been. Either the game was over subscribed or fans traveled without tickets.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:44 pmAbsolutely no evidence of that. What a sad state of affairs that after the inquiry and inquest people still spout this nonsense.
Sounds like someone has an agenda.NottsClaret wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:48 pmSad that so many people still soak up the lies put out by SYP to cover up what they did.
If you want to know who was drinking before the game, maybe have a look at where David Duckenfield was from 11-2pm that day. Although he maintained he ‘couldn’t remember’.
Pretty disgusting when working class football fans - especially those who remember those times - take the side of lying scumbags in the ‘establishment’ to score points in pathetic football rivalries.
Not what I believe. It’s the clear result of the inquiry & inquests. What I won’t believe is what you continue to shamefully have to say about it. Please don’t repeat it on this message board.
More fans ended up in the middle two pens than should have been. The main failing was they didnt have police manning the entrance to the two centre pens which when coming into the ground looks like the only way in to the terrace
Given all your experience of attending football matches do you honestly believe that no Liverpool fans turned up to an FA Cup semi final without tickets, hoping to either buy off a tout, get a spare or try to sneak in?ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:44 pmAbsolutely no evidence of that. What a sad state of affairs that after the inquiry and inquest people still spout this nonsense.
Is anyone actually denying that there were some fans there with no tickets? I think it’s more a case of thinking that played little or no part it what happened as per the inquiry.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:47 amGiven all your experience of attending football matches do you honestly believe that no Liverpool fans turned up to an FA Cup semi final without tickets, hoping to either buy off a tout, get a spare or try to sneak in?
Of the four I know who went, three would probably had a severe risk put on their future career prospects, in the jobs they were in at the time, had they come forward and admitted going with no tickets. For the record, they were nowhere near the Liverpool end at the time of the tragedy.Bigbopper wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:22 amWe all know fans travel to big games without tickets it has always happened.
Some go in the hope of buying a spare , some go just to be part of the prematch atmosphere and some go to try and blag their way in.
Just because hundreds of fans have not put their hands up and said "yes guv I went with no ticket" does not mean to say it did not happen. If your opinion is no one went without a ticket then fair enough but I think it is a rather naive opinion.
What field did they work in for their future career prospects to be at risk, for going to a football ground where a game was being held, without a ticket?Grumps wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:06 amOf the four I know who went, three would probably had a severe risk put on their future career prospects, in the jobs they were in at the time, had they come forward and admitted going with no tickets. For the record, they were nowhere near the Liverpool end at the time of the tragedy.
At the time, most matches were pay on the gate,so it became habit to travel to games with just a hope of getting in.
Agree 100% in a perfect world, but it's not simple planning & having these contingencies in place when you are ill equipped & severely undermanned because of circumstances beyond reasonable control, sure the police made mistakes & plenty of them & shouldn't have told pork pies after, I think a combination of factors led to that tragedy & I actually think it's counter productive to hang people out to dry when people might not be 100% responsible, sometimes it's more respectful to just try to learn from the past & remember the 96 respectfully & move on & try to ensure past mistakes aren't repeated.Corky wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:24 amWe seem to be missing the point here. It doesn't matter if fans travelled to the match without tickets. It doesn't matter if some had too much to drink. It doesn't matter if fans stayed in the pub too long then rushed to the ground late. What does matter is that the Police should plan for these eventualities and have contingencies in place to deal with them. It is there job to maintain health and safety sometimes in difficult situations. They didn't and then lied about it to cover their shortcomings and lack of preparedness.
I wouldn't disagree with you, it's just that this part of the conversation is around certain people saying nobody went without tickets, and others explaining why fans did travel without tickets.Corky wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:24 amWe seem to be missing the point here. It doesn't matter if fans travelled to the match without tickets. It doesn't matter if some had too much to drink. It doesn't matter if fans stayed in the pub too long then rushed to the ground late. What does matter is that the Police should plan for these eventualities and have contingencies in place to deal with them. It is there job to maintain health and safety sometimes in difficult situations. They didn't and then lied about it to cover their shortcomings and lack of preparedness.
That was my understanding too. Indeed even non football fans should be able to look at the terraces near each corner flag and see that is the case.RedRoseWardrobe wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:31 amThe inquests concluded that the terrace overall was below capacity.
And incredibly it happened again at the recent Liverpool game. Even with the smaller crowd it caused problems in Ormerod Yard.2 Bee Holed wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:34 pmPlus anyone trying to drive a car off the car park within 20 mins of the final whistle should be shot.
I agree with you. But it was the closing ranks of the establishment with a blanket character assassination (poor choice of words but..) of football fans generally and Liverpool fans in particular that was so disrespectful. And even recently with the acquittal of the 2 coppers and a solicitor(?) the comments made by their QC showed the contempt still held by some quarters for the 96.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:55 amAgree 100% in a perfect world, but it's not simple planning & having these contingencies in place when you are ill equipped & severely undermanned because of circumstances beyond reasonable control, sure the police made mistakes & plenty of them & shouldn't have told pork pies after, I think a combination of factors led to that tragedy & I actually think it's counter productive to hang people out to dry when people might not be 100% responsible, sometimes it's more respectful to just try to learn from the past & remember the 96 respectfully & move on & try to ensure past mistakes aren't repeated.
It's best just forgotten about now & I don't mean that callously, we've had all the investigations & inquiries under the sun & nothing will ever change, when things can't or won't change you need to change your outlook & just accept things for what there are, I don't mean to that be disrespectful to the dead the 96 will always be remembered & that tragic day, I can't speak for all the dead relatives & I won't even try to, but it's logical to assume it's dragged on for that long & keeps getting churned up, some will just want some sense of closure & to move on especially when there's no end in sight, you've got 2 camps effectively speaking blaming each other for what happened & just passing the buck & that will never end.Corky wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:32 pmI agree with you. But it was the closing ranks of the establishment with a blanket character assassination (poor choice of words but..) of football fans generally and Liverpool fans in particular that was so disrespectful. And even recently with the acquittal of the 2 coppers and a solicitor(?) the comments made by their QC showed the contempt still held by some quarters for the 96.
I watched a clearly angry and emotional Margaret Aspinall last week. This lady has been thrust into the limelight because her son was killed at Hillsborough.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:53 pmIt's best just forgotten about now & I don't mean that callously, we've had all the investigations & inquiries under the sun & nothing will ever change, when things can't or won't change you need to change your outlook & just accept things for what there are, I don't mean to that be disrespectful to the dead the 96 will always be remembered & that tragic day, I can't speak for all the dead relatives & I won't even try to, but it's logical to assume it's dragged on for that long & keeps getting churned up, some will just want some sense of closure & to move on especially when there's no end in sight, you've got 2 camps effectively speaking blaming each other for what happened & just passing the buck & that will never end.
I think it's far worse than being disrespectful. Those that were involved in the cover up can simply be described as evil people. Something they are quite happy to live with.Corky wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:32 pmI agree with you. But it was the closing ranks of the establishment with a blanket character assassination (poor choice of words but..) of football fans generally and Liverpool fans in particular that was so disrespectful. And even recently with the acquittal of the 2 coppers and a solicitor(?) the comments made by their QC showed the contempt still held by some quarters for the 96.
True, it's just a sh*t do what's gone with it all, a senseless tragedy compounded with so many mistakes that went on that day & in hindsight sadly what could have easily been prevented. I don't believe anything good will come out of it even if people are found to be partly responsible it'll just go around in circles with people blaming each other again.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:05 pmI watched a clearly angry and emotional Margaret Aspinall last week. This lady has been thrust into the limelight because her son was killed at Hillsborough.
Two things she said have stuck with me. She said that some of her fellow sufferers who have tried to get justice have had to take it to their graves. She then said that it had been proven that the Liverpool fans had nothing wrong. She said: “The only thing they did wrong was go to that bloody ground.”
I feel so much for them but you wonder what they can ever do now. They have suffered enough for over 32 years.
Tell you what Tony disable my account if I can’t have a differing opinion than you.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:39 pmNot what I believe. It’s the clear result of the inquiry & inquests. What I won’t believe is what you continue to shamefully have to say about it. Please don’t repeat it on this message board.