Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by DCWat » Wed May 26, 2021 9:22 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 9:06 pm
True the one advantage we have is we can offer the lad regular games, which he might not enjoy if he opted to take his chance at a bigger club.

Completely agree with your last sentence we don't want to wait all summer seeing whether this lad is interested in joining us or not, and if we fixate for too long on this signing there's a danger that some of our other targets will slip through our grasp. And if Stoke are insisting on £20m then it's time to walk away, this Collins lad may have plenty of potential, but he's still learning his craft, so for me £20m is a lot to risk on potential when we need guys who can contribute next season.

I'm all for taking a calculated gamble on young prospects, but not at those sort of prices, and surely if we have £10m burning a hole in our pockets we can find a decent centre back within our budget can't we.
Twenty million doesn’t sound that much, if he could be sold for forty or fifty in a few years, if we see him as having great potential.

If I remember rightly, White was reported as being around that price bracket, when in the Championship with Leeds. His value will be well up from that now.

Our investors may we’ll see players as investments too. Risky game of course, but some big rewards to be had, if that’s a route they choose, for some signings.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Rileybobs » Wed May 26, 2021 9:48 pm

DCWat wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 9:22 pm
Twenty million doesn’t sound that much, if he could be sold for forty or fifty in a few years, if we see him as having great potential.

If I remember rightly, White was reported as being around that price bracket, when in the Championship with Leeds. His value will be well up from that now.

Our investors may we’ll see players as investments too. Risky game of course, but some big rewards to be had, if that’s a route they choose, for some signings.
Not quite as simple as that though, as a player who is transferred for £20m will expect to earn significantly more than one who is transferred for £10m. You can then add on a bigger chunk for the agent.

I’m not saying we couldn’t stretch to a £20m signing, but for a 20 year old Championship defender it would be a hell of a gamble.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:13 pm

According to Nixon there wasn’t a bid. Apparently the two clubs are miles away on there valuations of the player.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by boatshed bill » Wed May 26, 2021 10:34 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 10:13 pm
According to Nixon there wasn’t a bid. Apparently the two clubs are miles away on there valuations of the player.
So if there wasn't a bid how can their be a difference in valuation?

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by ClaretTony » Wed May 26, 2021 10:41 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 10:13 pm
According to Nixon there wasn’t a bid. Apparently the two clubs are miles away on there valuations of the player.
I’d tend to agree with that. I just don’t think we would be going in this early with bids for players.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by KRBFC » Wed May 26, 2021 10:41 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 7:53 pm
I’ve only seen him play once but must admit that was at right back
He's a tall right back so I assume he's a natural central defender? if he's likely to be Tarkowskis immediate replacement why hasn't he been playing central defence in the Championship?

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by ClaretTony » Wed May 26, 2021 10:45 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 10:41 pm
He's a tall right back so I assume he's a natural central defender? if he's likely to be Tarkowskis immediate replacement why hasn't he been playing central defence in the Championship?
No suggestion that any signing is going to be an immediate replacement for Tarkowski. And I wasn’t aware he played as a full back.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:57 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 10:34 pm
So if there wasn't a bid how can their be a difference in valuation?
It was in reference to the bid in January.

He was saying they are still miles away valuation from bid in January
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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by KRBFC » Wed May 26, 2021 11:01 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 10:45 pm
No suggestion that any signing is going to be an immediate replacement for Tarkowski. And I wasn’t aware he played as a full back.
I've only seen him play a few times on Sky and it's been at right back.

https://allstokedup.com/2020/12/08/is-n ... ight-back/

''Collins has made a breakthrough this season under O'Neill, becoming a regular in the first team at right-back - with performances impressive enough for him to be linked with Arsenal and Burnley in January.''

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/f ... ry-5002252

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by ClaretTony » Wed May 26, 2021 11:11 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 11:01 pm
I've only seen him play a few times on Sky and it's been at right back.

https://allstokedup.com/2020/12/08/is-n ... ight-back/

''Collins has made a breakthrough this season under O'Neill, becoming a regular in the first team at right-back - with performances impressive enough for him to be linked with Arsenal and Burnley in January.''

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/f ... ry-5002252
I can’t recall having seen him play but I’d assumed he was a central defender.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Cubanclaret » Wed May 26, 2021 11:25 pm

I think Collins has played on the right of a three most regularly - and sometimes at right back.
Just what I’ve picked up on Stoke forum. The fans in general seem more enamoured by Harry Souttar, they certainly seem more eager to keep him. The Australian press feel sure he’s destined for the premier league...but maybe that’s because souttar chose to represent Australia rather than Scotland (he had a choice).

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Claret_tinted » Wed May 26, 2021 11:45 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 6:54 pm
Hopefully he’ll see the progress Keane & Tarky have made coming in biding their time in the first year then getting into the starting 11
Over going to United. United offer a contract, you go to United.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Claret_tinted » Wed May 26, 2021 11:47 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 10:41 pm
I’d tend to agree with that. I just don’t think we would be going in this early with bids for players.
I think the board have got a finite amount of time to appease/convince Dyche.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by ClaretTony » Wed May 26, 2021 11:48 pm

Claret_tinted wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 11:47 pm
I think the board have got a finite amount of time to appease/convince Dyche.
Don’t think so
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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu May 27, 2021 7:52 am

Talksport v Nixon

Who to believe considering both are wrong about 99 times out of 100

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by jojomk1 » Thu May 27, 2021 8:00 am

If we are having to spend north of £10m would rather we went after Tuanzebe at Man Utd
Still only 23 but looks calm and assured with a mom performance when they beat PSG at start of Champions League

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Grumps » Thu May 27, 2021 8:03 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 7:52 am
Talksport v Nixon

Who to believe considering both are wrong about 99 times out of 100
You're giving talksport too much credit there

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu May 27, 2021 8:05 am

Grumps wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 8:03 am
You're giving talksport too much credit there
:D :D

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by NewClaret » Thu May 27, 2021 8:10 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 8:00 am
If we are having to spend north of £10m would rather we went after Tuanzebe at Man Utd
Still only 23 but looks calm and assured with a mom performance when they beat PSG at start of Champions League
Don’t think they’ll sell Tuanzebe with their current back line. Agree he looks a great player though.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Sproggy » Thu May 27, 2021 8:11 am

When did the transfer window open?

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu May 27, 2021 8:16 am

Sproggy wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 8:11 am
When did the transfer window open?
Dont think it’s open yet. But Leicester look to have already completed an incredible signing. Soumare from Lille for 18m is a steal

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu May 27, 2021 8:18 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 8:16 am
Dont think it’s open yet. But Leicester look to have already completed an incredible signing. Soumare from Lille for 18m is a steal

He is a midfielder isn't he ?

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by NewClaret » Thu May 27, 2021 8:29 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 7:52 am
Talksport v Nixon

Who to believe considering both are wrong about 99 times out of 100
Read the Nixon tweets last night. My take is that neither Talksport or Nixon have a clue and I’d doubt we’d made a bid with him being injured second half of last season. It would be a big risk. Can’t see us going to the levels Stoke clearly want without him being fit.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu May 27, 2021 9:21 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 8:18 am
He is a midfielder isn't he ?
Yes a CM.

Looks like he is the Tielemens replacement (if he goes to Liverpool).

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu May 27, 2021 9:34 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 9:21 am
Yes a CM.

Looks like he is the Tielemens replacement (if he goes to Liverpool).

Interesting. 1 goal in 4 years for Lille.

I had presumed your midfielders had to score goals or they offered nothing to the team

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by dsr » Thu May 27, 2021 10:00 am

Sproggy wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 8:11 am
When did the transfer window open?
It doesn't matter whether its open or not. Clubs can sign players at any time, even 11 seconds after the window shuts as Leicester once proved. All the transfer window means is that they can't be registered to play for their new club until the window opens.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu May 27, 2021 10:17 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 9:34 am
Interesting. 1 goal in 4 years for Lille.

I had presumed your midfielders had to score goals or they offered nothing to the team
Soumare has a better goal contribution rate than Brownhill. He’s played his whole career at the elite level and just won Ligue 1.

Yes them two players are very comparable 🤣.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu May 27, 2021 10:18 am

Thank you,

You have just proved my point, and also exposed your bitter agenda.
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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Sproggy » Thu May 27, 2021 10:19 am

dsr wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 10:00 am
It doesn't matter whether its open or not. Clubs can sign players at any time, even 11 seconds after the window shuts as Leicester once proved. All the transfer window means is that they can't be registered to play for their new club until the window opens.
I'll be writing a strongly worded letter to the FA then. It's been badly misnamed. It should be called the "Player Registration Window" and Jim White should be on TV 24x7 discussing transfers.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu May 27, 2021 10:31 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 10:18 am
Thank you,

You have just proved my point, and also exposed your bitter agenda.
What agenda?

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Mattster » Thu May 27, 2021 12:12 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 9:34 am
Interesting. 1 goal in 4 years for Lille.

I had presumed your midfielders had to score goals or they offered nothing to the team
Yeah, in some people's minds this is it...
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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Jamesy » Thu May 27, 2021 1:13 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 8:33 pm
The line on the radio earlier was something along lines off we believe Burnley have had a 10m bid rejected, sources say Stoke are looking for 20m.

Stoke fans seem to be suggesting 20-30m, incredible sums of money.

Imagine how much McNeil is worth.
I imagine McNeil is in a similar price bracket as he is miles from the finished article, and then it may be a gamble if he fails to progress. He could end up as another Chris Eagles.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Goobs » Thu May 27, 2021 1:25 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 1:13 pm
I imagine McNeil is in a similar price bracket as he is miles from the finished article, and then it may be a gamble if he fails to progress. He could end up as another Chris Eagles.
Don't think the Burnley housewives would be as enthralled about their fellas offer them out to Dwight the 😆

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu May 27, 2021 2:13 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 1:13 pm
I imagine McNeil is in a similar price bracket as he is miles from the finished article, and then it may be a gamble if he fails to progress. He could end up as another Chris Eagles.
McNeil earns rave reviews regularly in the PL, has a long contract and is getting better the more he plays.

He's already better than Eagles ever was.
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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by rob63 » Thu May 27, 2021 3:48 pm

Claret_tinted wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 11:47 pm
I think the board have got a finite amount of time to appease/convince Dyche.
Especially if Palace are hovering

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Jamesy » Thu May 27, 2021 6:54 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 2:13 pm
McNeil earns rave reviews regularly in the PL, has a long contract and is getting better the more he plays.

He's already better than Eagles ever was.
Rave reviews regularly? That’s stretching it a tad. People like Jack Grealish get rave reviews when fit. Dwight possibly gets one decent review every three games or so. He doesn’t regularly get rave reviews on the player ratings on this board! I personally don’t think he is getting any better and was questioning his transfer value in comparison to an up and coming Championship player that we are allegedly linked with.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu May 27, 2021 6:56 pm

I think Dwight has had a poor season

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Jamesy » Thu May 27, 2021 7:06 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 6:56 pm
I think Dwight has had a poor season
Agreed.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by TsarBomba » Thu May 27, 2021 7:22 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 6:56 pm
I think Dwight has had a poor season
Tad harsh.

Three things:

1. Gets doubled up on every game because everyone knows he is our only real creative outlet when the ball is on the deck.

2. Has suffered from not having a right winger to share the burden.

3. If McNeil does struggle to affect the name, normally because the opposition are all over him like a cheap suit, then we tend to go long, which further isolates him from the game.

Name me another PL club, or any club for that matter, that places the burden that we do on a 21 year old still learning the game? It’s ludicrous.
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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by DCWat » Thu May 27, 2021 7:46 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 7:22 pm
Tad harsh.

Three things:

1. Gets doubled up on every game because everyone knows he is our only real creative outlet when the ball is on the deck.

2. Has suffered from not having a right winger to share the burden.

3. If McNeil does struggle to affect the name, normally because the opposition are all over him like a cheap suit, then we tend to go long, which further isolates him from the game.

Name me another PL club, or any club for that matter, that places the burden that we do on a 21 year old still learning the game? It’s ludicrous.
It’s also quite common for younger players to suffer following a breakthrough season.

He’s now got to learn how to influence games now that the opposition are aware of his threat. Equally, we have to find a way to lessen our reliance on his attacking abilities.

The posts suggesting he’s not improved or had a poor season don’t seem to pay much attention to what opponents do to nullify him, let alone accept that he’s still young and learning.

You’re bang on about the expectation we have on him. It’s a hell of a lot on the shoulders of one so young.
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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu May 27, 2021 7:50 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 7:22 pm
Tad harsh.

Three things:

1. Gets doubled up on every game because everyone knows he is our only real creative outlet when the ball is on the deck.

2. Has suffered from not having a right winger to share the burden.

3. If McNeil does struggle to affect the name, normally because the opposition are all over him like a cheap suit, then we tend to go long, which further isolates him from the game.

Name me another PL club, or any club for that matter, that places the burden that we do on a 21 year old still learning the game? It’s ludicrous.
I dont disagree with any of the points you make.
.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Jamesy » Thu May 27, 2021 7:59 pm

I agree with some of Tsar Bombas points, however many times when Dwight has not been doubled up on and had time and space in possession he has often made the wrong choices. Yes he is only 21 and still learning and does carry a burden on his shoulders I accept that. Perhaps he needs a move to a better footballing team in order to progress, because if as Tsar has said he is our only outlet I cannot see our style or personnel changing radically in the near future he will continue to struggle.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu May 27, 2021 9:29 pm

Can't see the personnel changing?
We've got a vacant spot in the squad for a right winger and a left one seeing as Brady has just gone and Lennon went last summer.

We just need to find the right players to fill those spots and that will help McNeil out.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by boatshed bill » Thu May 27, 2021 10:09 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 7:59 pm
I agree with some of Tsar Bombas points, however many times when Dwight has not been doubled up on and had time and space in possession he has often made the wrong choices. Yes he is only 21 and still learning and does carry a burden on his shoulders I accept that. Perhaps he needs a move to a better footballing team in order to progress, because if as Tsar has said he is our only outlet I cannot see our style or personnel changing radically in the near future he will continue to struggle.
You could be right about a move.
A thought on our change of tactics since Vydra came in:
We play further up the pitch, which means that it is less likely that Dwight can start running at defences from a deep position.
He receives the ball so often in situations where he can only play it back.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by TheOriginalLongsider » Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:32 am

How much is Marc Guehi at Swansea?

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:35 am

TheOriginalLongsider wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:32 am
How much is Marc Guehi at Swansea?
I think he's a loan from Chelsea.

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Woodleyclaret » Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:12 am

Sean needs to stop playing Dwight in cm
His ability is to get down the left and deliver pinpoint crosses for Woody to convert
Too often he drifts inside cant tackle and we are under pressure as he loses the ball

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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Jamesy » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:16 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:12 am
Sean needs to stop playing Dwight in cm
His ability is to get down the left and deliver pinpoint crosses for Woody to convert
Too often he drifts inside cant tackle and we are under pressure as he loses the ball
Good point.

Conroy92
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Re: Burnley bid rejected for Collins (Talksport)

Post by Conroy92 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:37 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:12 am
Sean needs to stop playing Dwight in cm
His ability is to get down the left and deliver pinpoint crosses for Woody to convert
Too often he drifts inside cant tackle and we are under pressure as he loses the ball
While I agree with you that in our system its better for Dwight to concentrate on getting down the left and getting crosses in, it might also be developing and helping his progress learning different roles across the pitch. I think he'd fit as an attacking midfielder in the right side currently we don't play in a way that affords an attacking midfielder the freedom.

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