Ben white has been called up.

Must admit he has surprised me, looks really composed. I hope he starts ahead of Mings.

I’d start Neil Moore ahead of Mings. Even now all these years past his ‘prime’

Should have been Ward-Prowse going as TAA replacement, White ahead of Mings in the original squad.

Red Fox Rocks Socks wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:41 am

I’d start Neil Moore ahead of Mings. Even now all these years past his ‘prime’

That's a blast from the past. I can only really recall him scoring a late winner at Preston when we won 3-2

JohnDearyMe wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:30 am

That's a blast from the past. I can only really recall him scoring a late winner at Preston when we won 3-2

Your mind has probably done you a favour. That was far and away his most positive contribution

Great just what England need another defender, I wonder what the likes of JWP & lingard think about this decision, I'd have called one of those 2 into the squad, which one TBH I'm not too fussed, but either of those would have made more sense than another centre back.

JWP has shown what he can offer in an England shirt particularly in dead ball scenarios, and Lingard has been playing out of his skin for West Ham this season.

If he hadn't before Gareth has now completely lost the plot, although I've no doubt his hefty pay-off by the FA when England crash out early in the tournament will soften the blow of his sacking.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:19 pm

Great just what England need another defender, I wonder what the likes of JWP & lingard think about this decision, I'd have called one of those 2 into the squad, which one TBH I'm not too fussed, but either of those would have made more sense than another centre back.

JWP has shown what he can offer in an England shirt particularly in dead ball scenarios, and Lingard has been playing out of his skin for West Ham this season.

If he hadn't before Gareth has now completely lost the plot, although I've no doubt his hefty pay-off by the FA when England crash out early in the tournament will soften the blow of his sacking.

I honestly don’t agree, Lingard and JWP don’t get into England’s starting eleven and neither are better than what’s already on the bench. They would literally be going to make up the numbers.

If Maguire won’t be fit for first two games then extra CB is the right decision.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:27 pm

If Maguire won’t be fit for first two games then extra CB is the right decision.

Especially one that might have the talent/ability to play there as opposed to one who’s showed repeatedly he can’t

Think England will really struggle at the Euros. Southgate seems to get terrified as soon as we come up against a decent side and revert to playing ultra-defensively.

Southgate will probably play 5-5-0 and hope for a breakaway goal for 1-0 in each match....

MT03ALG wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:19 pm

Southgate will probably play 5-5-0 and hope for a breakaway goal for 1-0 in each match....

we can't afford to lose our 3 opening games...even by 1 goal!

Southgate out

Do England take one unfit player to every tournament? Is it an unwritten rule that we have to?

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:19 pm

Do England take one unfit player to every tournament? Is it an unwritten rule that we have to?

Nah, we've not done that this time - both Henderson and Maguire are carrying injuries so we're at least up to 2 on this occasion

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:19 pm

Do England take one unfit player to every tournament? Is it an unwritten rule that we have to?

Yes it seems to be doesn't it, and if Henderson & Maguire do miss the first couple of group games, then even if they get a run out in the final fixture, and there's no guarantee that England will have wrapped qualification up by that point anyway, so they may not even play in the group matches at all, then it's taking a heck of a risk expecting them to be up to speed come the KO stages, Maguire in particular is bound to be rusty, and Henderson didn't look match ready during his 2nd half run out yesterday.

I understand that they are both important players, but if they aren't fit they aren't fit that's just the reality I'm afraid, In Gareth's defence I suppose the squads being upped to 26 does give him slightly more wriggle room to take a calculated gamble on their potential involvement in the latter stages of the tournament should England get that far.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:27 pm

I honestly don’t agree, Lingard and JWP don’t get into England’s starting eleven and neither are better than what’s already on the bench. They would literally be going to make up the numbers.

If Maguire won’t be fit for first two games then extra CB is the right decision.

I'd agree with that.

We were overloaded with right-backs and Southgate has a desire to play 3-5-2 making the situation even worse. Add on to that that he likes to play Walker as a centre-back (much better at RB in my opinion) and the decision to take White makes 100% sense.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:35 pm

Yes it seems to be doesn't it, and if Henderson & Maguire do miss the first couple of group games, then even if they get a run out in the final fixture, and there's no guarantee that England will have wrapped qualification up by that point anyway, so they may not even play in the group matches at all, then it's taking a heck of a risk expecting them to be up to speed come the KO stages, Maguire in particular is bound to be rusty, and Henderson didn't look match ready during his 2nd half run out yesterday.

I understand that they are both important players, but if they aren't fit they aren't fit that's just the reality I'm afraid, In Gareth's defence I suppose the squads being upped to 26 does give him slightly more wriggle room to take a calculated gamble on their potential involvement in the latter stages of the tournament should England get that far.

I understand that to a point but nearly every ex pro (apart from Keane) has highlighted how important the individuals can be to the squad environment. One of the big pluses of the World Cup was the players saying how well the team bonded and the benefit that had on performance.

If Southgate feels they add to that then it’s worth taking them. I suspect they will both be fit for the Scotland game anyway.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:19 pm

Great just what England need another defender, I wonder what the likes of JWP & lingard think about this decision, I'd have called one of those 2 into the squad, which one TBH I'm not too fussed, but either of those would have made more sense than another centre back.

JWP has shown what he can offer in an England shirt particularly in dead ball scenarios, and Lingard has been playing out of his skin for West Ham this season.

If he hadn't before Gareth has now completely lost the plot, although I've no doubt his hefty pay-off by the FA when England crash out early in the tournament will soften the blow of his sacking.

You really hate Southgate don't you? he's lost the plot replacing a defender with a defender?
If the squad was full of Burnley players and we failed to qualify for tournaments you'd be delighted though.
Lingard makes more sense? theres Foden, Grealish, Mount, Sterling, Sancho, Watkins, Rashford for the front areas, we are stacked in that area. Who do we have to play in a back 2 when Maguire is injured? Mings, Stones and who??

If Southgate insists on taking the injured Maguire to a tournament, it makes perfect sense to stock up on spare centre backs.

But White - really? No international experience and not a full season in the PL.

Let’s face it, Southgate hasn’t a clue on his formation or his best side. In all seriousness, past managers have always used the final few warm up games prior to a tournament to get their first 11 playing together, getting pitch time with each other, maybe make a few subs in the second half to test the system or motivate dodgy performers. I despair on what yesterday was all about.

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:55 pm

If Southgate insists on taking the injured Maguire to a tournament, it makes perfect sense to stock up on spare centre backs.

But White - really? No international experience and not a full season in the PL.

Let’s face it, Southgate hasn’t a clue on his formation or his best side. In all seriousness, past managers have always used the final few warm up games prior to a tournament to get their first 11 playing together, getting pitch time with each other, maybe make a few subs in the second half to test the system or motivate dodgy performers. I despair on what yesterday was all about.

Yes really, Ben White.

not a full season in the PL? he was at Brighton for the entirety of last season.
No International experience? there's only one way to get international experience and that doesn't involve sat at home while the tournament is ongoing.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:52 pm

You really hate Southgate don't you? he's lost the plot replacing a defender with a defender?
If the squad was full of Burnley players and we failed to qualify for tournaments you'd be delighted though.
Lingard makes more sense? theres Foden, Grealish, Mount, Sterling, Sancho, Watkins, Rashford for the front areas, we are stacked in that area. Who do we have to play in a back 2 when Maguire is injured? Mings, Stones and who??

Hate Southgate no not at all, why would I hate him he seems a nice chap from everything I've seen and heard in the media, I just don't think he's up to the job of managing England, now hopefully he'll prove me wrong over the next few weeks, and if he does I'll be amongst the first to happily admit I was wrong, but I genuinely can't see this England squad getting past the last 16, as usual lots of hype prior to a big tournament, and then it'll all fall flat once the serious business gets under way.

I just think England's best hope in the Euro's is to score goals, as once it gets to the latter stages, if England progress that far, then there's virtually no chance of the England defence keeping clean sheets regardless of the personnel selected, and you've forgotten about Coady, plus in an emergency both Rice & Walker could cover at CB if needed, not ideal I admit but at least they've got some tournament experience which Ben White lacks.

Maybe it's my mindset but if it came to the last 20-25 minutes of a KO game and England were chasing a winner, or trying to get back into the game who would you rather have sat on the bench Jesse Lingard or Ben White, the only good aspect of this is that at least we won't have the farce of taking 4 right backs into the tournament, but even that was only forced on Gareth by TAA'S unfortunate injury.

And where have I mentioned selecting any Burnley players, others may have suggested that, but Nick Pope apart I never expected any Burnley players to be on Southgate's radar for the Euro's, as nobody has really impressed in a Burnley shirt this season, so why on earth would they even be considered for England duty.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:51 pm

I just think England's best hope in the Euro's is to score goals, as once it gets to the latter stages, if England progress that far, then there's virtually no chance of the England defence keeping clean sheets regardless of the personnel selected, and you've forgotten about Coady, plus in an emergency both Rice & Walker could cover at CB if needed, not ideal I admit but at least they've got some tournament experience which Ben White lacks.

I haven't forgot about Coady, I left him out on purpose, he's never played in a back 4 for a reason, he's a midfielder converted to pivot a back 5. So 1 injury to central defence and we're down to emergency options? you still can't see why Southgate selected another central defender?

I’m not sure if there’s still time for Henderson to pull out through injury and Ward Prowse to replace him. If there is I hope this happens

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:51 pm

Hate Southgate no not at all, why would I hate him he seems a nice chap from everything I've seen and heard in the media, I just don't think he's up to the job of managing England, now hopefully he'll prove me wrong over the next few weeks, and if he does I'll be amongst the first to happily admit I was wrong, but I genuinely can't see this England squad getting past the last 16, as usual lots of hype prior to a big tournament, and then it'll all fall flat once the serious business gets under way.

I just think England's best hope in the Euro's is to score goals, as once it gets to the latter stages, if England progress that far, then there's virtually no chance of the England defence keeping clean sheets regardless of the personnel selected, and you've forgotten about Coady, plus in an emergency both Rice & Walker could cover at CB if needed, not ideal I admit but at least they've got some tournament experience which Ben White lacks.

Maybe it's my mindset but if it came to the last 20-25 minutes of a KO game and England were chasing a winner, or trying to get back into the game who would you rather have sat on the bench Jesse Lingard or Ben White, the only good aspect of this is that at least we won't have the farce of taking 4 right backs into the tournament, but even that was only forced on Gareth by TAA'S unfortunate injury.

And where have I mentioned selecting any Burnley players, others may have suggested that, but Nick Pope apart I never expected any Burnley players to be on Southgate's radar for the Euro's, as nobody has really impressed in a Burnley shirt this season, so why on earth would they even be considered for England duty.

We have a ridiculous amount of talent on the bench already. Let’s say he starts with an advanced midfield three of Foden, Grealish, Mount. That leaves the following players on the bench Sancho, Rashford, Sterling

Lingard and JWP wouldn’t even get off the bench if they were on it.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:00 pm

Yes really, Ben White.

not a full season in the PL? he was at Brighton for the entirety of last season.
No International experience? there's only one way to get international experience and that doesn't involve sat at home while the tournament is ongoing.

He didn’t play the full season and if you think this is the right time to be trying players untested st International level then that says it all

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:39 pm

He didn’t play the full season and if you think this is the right time to be trying players untested st International level then that says it all

He played 36 out of 38 games. He was injured for two games.

I assume you don’t want England to play Foden/Grealish/Sancho either? Given they have next to no international experience

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:59 pm

I’m not sure if there’s still time for Henderson to pull out through injury and Ward Prowse to replace him. If there is I hope this happens

I believe all the teams have until 24 hours before their opening games to tweak their squads, so yes there is still time to make a decision on JH if he's unlikely to feature in the early games, but I'll be surprised if Henderson is sent home now unless he's really struggling for fitness.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:58 pm

He played 36 out of 38 games. He was injured for two games.

I assume you don’t want England to play Foden/Grealish/Sancho either? Given they have next to no international experience

I think we both know they’ve all played more than 1 game don’t we and really you’re just looking for an argument as usual.

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:04 pm

I think we both know they’ve all played more than 1 game don’t we and really you’re just looking for an argument as usual.

Ben white - 2 caps

Foden - 3
Sancho - 6
Grealish - 4

I’m not looking for an argument at all. You said White hasn’t featured for Brighton all season. He clearly has.

You also said it’s not the time to test untried international talent.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:19 pm

Ben white - 2 caps

Foden - 3
Sancho - 6
Grealish - 4

I’m not looking for an argument at all. You said White hasn’t featured for Brighton all season. He clearly has.

You also said it’s not the time to test untried international talent.

Are you claiming Foden has 3 caps and Sancho 6 ?

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:58 am

Are you claiming Foden has 3 caps and Sancho 6 ?

According to Google he does

https://www.thefa.com/england/mens-seni ... don-sancho

https://www.englandfootball.com/mens-se ... phil-foden

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:23 am

https://www.thefa.com/england/mens-seni ... don-sancho

https://www.englandfootball.com/mens-se ... phil-foden

Fair enough, I think Google stats only show caps for non friendly games.

I still think there is over 9 people in the squad that haven’t got any tournament experience, correct me if I’m wrong.
That’s got to be a record.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:32 am

Fair enough, I think Google stats only show caps for non friendly games.

I still think there is over 9 people in the squad that haven’t got any tournament experience, correct me if I’m wrong.
That’s got to be a record.

The Ben White would be on 0 on google

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:39 pm

He didn’t play the full season and if you think this is the right time to be trying players untested st International level then that says it all

What do you mean he didn't play the full season? he missed a couple of games with injury?
I don't think White should start or will start but he's a very good player and a very good option, a much better option than Tarkowski or Mee.