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You shouldn’t be advising people to leave their homes unnecessarily.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:59 pmStay at home unless you need to buy essential fence paint. Why can't people just follow this simple rule?
thelaughingclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:22 pmSome people seem to thing going abroad is a human right. It is not. Wether you are visiting family abroad or not is irrelevant. You do not have the right to go into any country you choose and then be accepted straight back into the UK. If you can not go 1/2 years without going abroad then you have serious issues. Get a grip. Imagine what these people would have been like during the war or in centuries past when people went a lifetime without leaving their home town, never mind their home country. If they could do that you can go a year or two without going the costa del whatever and shouting at Spanish/Portuguese waiters for not being able to speak good english as they bring you your pie and chips with a pint of carling before you go and get drunk and ruin the reputation of Britain further.
True but we only surpassed our SARS death toll of 33 yesterday with the announcement of only our 34th death due to COVID-19 since the pandemic began. Even if you normalise a population of 6 million against a population of 65 million then number of lives saved here assuming we would have had 10 times less deaths than the UK had we adopted the same measures was probably worth it.Stalbansclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:18 pmBut Singapore has always been a touch "command and control" hasn't it ? Chewing gum sale is banned there still I believe. With the sort of vaccination rates now seen in the UK we surely should be seeing some relaxations otherwise what's the point ?
Personally I feel some sympathy for the situation people in Portugal found themselves in but , yes, I suppose you can say they knew the risks.
Not sure what relevance her job has to this?
Ok, you didn't use the word selfish but you did use the the words "idiot" and "clown" to describe people who've gone abroad. As far as I'm concerned my partner has being doing a very challenging job, in a foreign country away from family and friends for a long period of time. When Portugal got put on the green list it was a long awaited light at the end of the tunnel and the chance to go and visit loved ones whilst staying within government guidelines.CaptainKirk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:02 amNot sure what relevance her job has to this?
I never called anyone selfish.
I was saying people jumping on a plane and travelling abroad knowing that the rules could change at short notice - and then complaining about it - deserve no sympathy.
It isn't though is it?
Declaring the job they do is an effort to garner sympathy and to make it seem they're more entitled to a holiday abroad, there was a social worker on the radio the other day doing the same, saying they deserve to go abroad now and apparently it isn't fair the rules keep changing etc etc.CaptainKirk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:02 amNot sure what relevance her job has to this?
I never called anyone selfish.
I was saying people jumping on a plane and travelling abroad knowing that the rules could change at short notice - and then complaining about it - deserve no sympathy.
You are a real trooper mate, I commend you for cancelling that holiday to Butlins, unfortunately not everyone has your steely resolve and determination.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:36 amDeclaring the job they do is an effort to garner sympathy and to make it seem they're more entitled to a holiday abroad, there was a social worker on the radio the other day doing the same, saying they deserve to go abroad now and apparently it isn't fair the rules keep changing etc etc.
Last year I cancelled all plans to go abroad this year and also didn't book anything for Scotland to see family incase things changed for the worse.
Trip to Skegness in Sept last year was moved to sept this year at the request of Butlins because they wanted that weekend for families, as lockdown had been lifted back then, and with a bit of luck this will still go ahead this year, but if it doesn't because things have gotten worse then it isn't the end of the world.
If I did have a foreign holiday booked for now, personally I'd swallow the cost if I can't get a refund and not bother going.
The safe lists for foreign holidays have been changing regularly all year, so why its a sudden shock to people when they're changing now is bizarre.SammyBoy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:14 pmYou are a real trooper mate, I commend you for cancelling that holiday to Butlins, unfortunately not everyone has your steely resolve and determination.
As for garnering sympathy and deserving a holiday, Portugal was a destination on the green list when most people booked to go, as long as testing procedures were adhered to I don't think it's morally deficient of people to want to have a break or see family.
Personally, I'd rather show them a bit of empathy and compassion than revel in schadenfreude and hope they get immediately punished in the costliest way possible, but hey it's 2021 and maybe I'm out of touch.
P.S - I hope you make it to Skegness this year.
Good for you man. A shining example to the weak willed and decadent out thereGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:30 pmThe safe lists for foreign holidays have been changing regularly all year, so why its a sudden shock to people when they're changing now is bizarre.
I'm not asking for people to be punished, but I'm also not willing to show sympathy for anyone who's booked this year or during the pandemic for a holiday abroad.
We'd all like to see our families, whether they're here or abroad, but this pandemic is causing issues for everyone.
I've got large numbers of family and friends I've been unable to see, I'm just accepting that's how it has to be right now in this current uncertain situation.
As for skegness, if I go great, if i can't cos of covid then I won't be whinging about it that's for sure.
Certainly not somewhere I could live, looks beautiful but couldn’t live under that sort of regimeSingaporeClarets wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:40 amTrue but we only surpassed our SARS death toll of 33 yesterday with the announcement of only our 34th death due to COVID-19 since the pandemic began. Even if you normalise a population of 6 million against a population of 65 million then number of lives saved here assuming we would have had 10 times less deaths than the UK had we adopted the same measures was probably worth it.
Weak willed for following the rules and not putting others at risk?
The NHS card is frequently used & I'm no way discrediting what them people do as I can imagine recently it's been extremely challenging & difficult for them, but nevertheless other people also work in challenging circumstances as well, it's not solely confined to the NHS employees, you could actually legitimately argue from a financial point of view the NHS workers have been fortunate staying in consistent employment & even probably benefiting from extra shifts due to the pandemic, some of the population have been furloughed for months & are playing catch up with the finances & can only dream of a holiday in the sun.CaptainKirk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:02 amNot sure what relevance her job has to this?
I never called anyone selfish.
I was saying people jumping on a plane and travelling abroad knowing that the rules could change at short notice - and then complaining about it - deserve no sympathy.
I've already said this half a dozen times but Portugal was on the green list when the majority of those affected booked their trip. Nobody that booked a trip to Portugal when it was green listed has broken "the rules", my partner and thousands of others will have organised and submitted their pre and post-flight COVID tests and followed "the rules" to the letter.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:03 pmWeak willed for following the rules and not putting others at risk?
Ok then...
We aren't gonna agree and I can't be arsed batting this back and forth all day, so lets just agree to disagree.
What?Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:06 pm, you could actually legitimately argue from a financial point of view the NHS workers have been fortunate staying in consistent employment & even probably benefiting from extra shifts due to the pandemic, some of the population have been furloughed for months & are playing catch up with the finances & can only dream of a holiday in the sun.
Some people become accustomed to living to what they earn penny for penny & even struggle at that & live in their overdrafts already nevermind with deductions, 20% might not seem a lot to you but it's everything to somebody with a high expenditure. Some savings as you've mentioned will have been made but you are forgetting soaring utility bills whilst remaining at home so that kind of evens itself out with the additional savings you've mentioned.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:32 pmWhat?
Don't really know where to start, but the majority of workers furloughed have been on a very large percentage of their wage, and by staying at home have had significantly reduced expenses. (e.g. the 20% hit will simply cover travel to and from work and parking charges for many people, and they haven't been going to the pub, the football etc.). I doubt that many furloughed workers are "playing catch-up".
Meanwhile NHS staff, care workers and shop workers, are (in many cases) amongst the lowest paid, and have had all the associated costs of getting to work, possibly paying for childcare etc., etc.
More significantly however, they've had no choice but to keep going to work, initially without PPE, in order to keep the country going, putting themselves at risk.
So who are the fortunate ones?
I think you need to read your OP again.CaptainKirk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:02 amNot sure what relevance her job has to this?
I never called anyone selfish.
I was saying people jumping on a plane and travelling abroad knowing that the rules could change at short notice - and then complaining about it - deserve no sympathy.
It's hardly undeserved it's a wild virus the situation is very fluid, people have decided so must live with the consequences there decisions have arrived at, it's a very strange concept with some people on this forum where personal decisions remain detached from there actions.
Of course it's undeserved. None of the consequences of this virus are deserved.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:28 pmIt's hardly undeserved it's a wild virus the situation is very fluid, people have decided so must live with the consequences there decisions have arrived at, it's a very strange concept with some people on this forum where personal decisions remain detached from there actions.
Good point. I never expect anything I post to register with him to be honest, but I try in vain.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:53 pmNot sure you will get far with that point considering he thinks racial abuse is deserved if the victim is silly enough to be on twitter
Getting accustomed to spending all of their wages every month is a bit of a silly thing to do. They really should have made different decisions.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:41 pmSome people become accustomed to living to what they earn penny for penny & even struggle at that & live in their overdrafts already nevermind with deductions, 20% might not seem a lot to you but it's everything to somebody with a high expenditure. Some savings as you've mentioned will have been made but you are forgetting soaring utility bills whilst remaining at home so that kind of evens itself out with the additional savings you've mentioned.
Rising cost of living and a stagnation of wages.
Wages should go up in order to make them attractive to uk workers now we don’t have as many European people here? Is that what you are saying?GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:51 pmRising cost of living and a stagnation of wages.
Wages should start to increase in order to make jobs more attractive now its harder to import workers from Europe who're happy enough to work for the mimimum wage and longer hours.
When the UK had a regular influx of people willing to work for the minimum wage because its higher than the wages back home, where is the incentive for UK employers to offer higher wages for basic jobs?PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:13 pmWages should go up in order to make them attractive to uk workers now we don’t have as many European people here? Is that what you are saying?
A job should have a fair wage attached to it, no matter who is employed.
Anyone who is unemployed should be grateful for a job at the minimum wage!
That much is true, but we are past that point the virus is here & we are living in here & now, life as changed we can't go back to 2 years ago & do the same as we are doing now, surely you can see that? Our actions can now potentially affect other people & so forth in a chain if we aren't careful. Personal decisions equals personal responsibility, the general consensus appears to be, we can make personal decisions without accepting full responsibility for our decisions & start to blame other people or the unfortunate circumstances we have found ourselves in, do you want to live in a society where personal decisions aren't accountable?
Our actions have always affected other people. Like deciding the drive a car while sedated.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:07 pmThat much is true, but we are past that point the virus is here & we are living in here & now, life as changed we can't go back to 2 years ago & do the same as we are doing now, surely you can can see that? Our actions can now potentially affect other people & so forth in a chain if we aren't careful. Personal decisions equals personal responsibility, the general consensus appears to be, we can make personal decisions without accepting full responsibility for our decisions & start to blame other people or the unfortunate circumstances we have found ourselves in, do you want to live in a society where personal decisions aren't accountable?
True, indeed in the same manner as somebody who's really anxious & hyper that could also crash a vehicle by that same token.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:10 pmOur actions have always affected other people. Like deciding the drive a car while sedated.
Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:07 pmdo you want to live in a society where personal decisions aren't accountable?
Exactly, that's exactly what we are dealing with with people mingling, what do you recommend, compulsory vaccinations or withdrawing treatment for the people, what gives?fatboy47 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:14 pmAvailable information now strongly demonstrates that the overwhelming majority of people being admitted to hospital with C19 have been people who have not taken up the offer of vaccinations.
So yes... I'd like those people to be accountable for their actions and not me.
Are those the only options? Compulsory vaccinations or withdrawing treatment?Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:18 pmExactly, that's exactly what we are dealing with with people mingling, what do you recommend, compulsory vaccinations or withdrawing treatment for the people, what gives?
I recommend that we mingle to our hearts content, and that the clowns who have stuck two fingers to the vaccination take the consequences of their actions or lack of them.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:18 pmExactly, that's exactly what we are dealing with with people mingling, what do you recommend, compulsory vaccinations or withdrawing treatment for the people, what gives?
That may be the case if you earn under 40k per year and receive 32k through furlough, if you’re a higher earner with a large mortgage, bills and school fee’s you will be playing catch up and that’s not through living beyond your means.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:32 pmWhat?
Don't really know where to start, but the majority of workers furloughed have been on a very large percentage of their wage, and by staying at home have had significantly reduced expenses. (e.g. the 20% hit will simply cover travel to and from work and parking charges for many people, and they haven't been going to the pub, the football etc.). I doubt that many furloughed workers are "playing catch-up".
Meanwhile NHS staff, care workers and shop workers, are (in many cases) amongst the lowest paid, and have had all the associated costs of getting to work, possibly paying for childcare etc., etc.
More significantly however, they've had no choice but to keep going to work, initially without PPE, in order to keep the country going, putting themselves at risk.
So who are the fortunate ones?
Is £70 for a bottle of wine in one restaurant in the Lake District truly representative of the cost of all holidays in England?
Surely most people's expenditure is relative to their income, so hardship through a 20% reduction would be equally relative?Burnley1989 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:47 pmThat may be the case if you earn under 40k per year and receive 32k through furlough, if you’re a higher earner with a large mortgage, bills and school fee’s you will be playing catch up and that’s not through living beyond your means.
I understand your point but 32k is the max you could/can receive on furlough, if your income is 100k for example, you’d be 68k worse off that your previous years earnings.boatshed bill wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:35 pmSurely most people's expenditure is relative to their income, so hardship through a 20% reduction would be equally relative?
Last weekend in Basingstoke highlighted why it was a good thing, so many idiots getting drunk and into fightscricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:59 pmThis thread shows why social distancing isn’t a bad thing.
OK. I didn't know that.Burnley1989 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:39 pmI understand your point but 32k is the max you could/can receive on furlough, if your income is 100k for example, you’d be 68k worse off that your previous years earnings.
Unlikely that someone that’s worth 100k to a business could be left at home for a year so perhaps a bit extreme but there will certainly be people playing catch up with their finances this year is my point.
At the moment yesTheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:33 pmIs £70 for a bottle of wine in one restaurant in the Lake District truly representative of the cost of all holidays in England?
Great idea, we will utilise resources treating covid patients who are against vaccination & put all the other disease treatments such as cancer on a back burner, I don't know why I didn't think of that before