https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts ... yfraha/amp?

Say what you like about his managerial abilities but Southgate speaks / writes very well imo

Excellent read. I think he really gets it, best England manager in my life time.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:29 pm

Excellent read. I think he really gets it, best England manager in my life time.

Are you 6 ?

Yes men usually do know what to say

joey13 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:33 pm

Are you 6 ?

Nope quite simply none better in last 30 years.

He doesn’t half drone on….

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:36 pm

Nope quite simply none better in last 30 years.

Hasnt been hard tbh

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:29 pm

Excellent read. I think he really gets it, best England manager in my life time.

In terms of talking, or in terms if things achieved as a manager in the game?

Ps I doubt he came up with all that on his own off his own back.

Most people have written him off and rightly so with his poor tactics, strange selections/approach and the results/performances so far.
I think this competition will further show the nation to how clueless he is. He getting by purely on his chat and having kept the media and their darling players on side long enough to get another tournament.

Let's hope it doesn't, but I'm rarely wrong.

England PR team been working hard on that (or is it a spoof?).

Picking the right team/preparing the team/getting tactics right is what Southgate needs to concentrate on and what he'll be judged on.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:36 pm

Nope quite simply none better in last 30 years.

I wish Hoddle hadn't screwed it up. I think he had potential to be a really good manager.
TBH we've had some shockers since Ramsey.

Personally I think Southgate is the worst.

He's going into a tournament where a lot of people have no trust in him and would love him replaced.
Then he has a go at some England fans. Not very wise, as soon as we lose one, the daggers will be out for him.

How many genuinely top international sides have we beaten under Southgate? ... ( when it mattered I mean)...genuine question.

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:42 pm

How many genuinely top international sides have we beaten under Southgate? ... ( when it mattered I mean)...genuine question.

None

Always liked and respected him as a player. Had a wonderful club and international career which was sadly tarnished by a penalty miss. He was one of the few players that always showed up for England.

He's proven in his time as England Manager to be an even better man. I'm not sure he's the right person to take the international team forward on the pitch but his values and principles are superb and he represents us magnificently.

Such a shame he hasn't stood by his pledge to pick form players and leave injuries at home though. Tarky is the biggest victim of that and it stings a bit.

Would love him to make the nation of doubters (myself included at this stage) eat some serious humble pie.

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:42 pm

How many genuinely top international sides have we beaten under Southgate? ... ( when it mattered I mean)...genuine question.

How many did Bobby Robson beat in 8 years in competitive games

Failed to qualify to '84 Euros from a group consisting of Hungary, Greece, Luxemburg and Denmark

In the whole of the '86 campaign we managed to beat Finland, Turkey, N. Ireland, Romania, Poland and Paraguay

In the whole '88 campaign we managed to beat N. Ireland, Yugoslavia, Turkey,

In the whole '90 campaign we managed to beat Albania, Poland, Egypt, Belgium and Cameroon

So in 8 years and 4 competitions the only decent team we managed to beat was Belgium with the last kick of extra time after hanging on for large parts of the game

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:29 pm

Excellent read. I think he really gets it, best England manager in my life time.

you forgot the laughing emoji -------------->

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:32 pm

I wish Hoddle hadn't screwed it up. I think he had potential to be a really good manager.
TBH we've had some shockers since Ramsey.

Seems to have been well regarded amongst pro's at the time according to interviews with former players at the time. Then he went all weird, brought in Eileen Drewery and suggested disabled people must have done something naughty in a past life.

I was quite optimistic when Southgate brought in youngsters and we went all free flowing but he's reverted to type and picks names rather than form players. True he can only work with players available to him but some of his selections/tactics, including the current one are more than bizarre.

BenWickes wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:14 am

Seems to have been well regarded amongst pro's at the time according to interviews with former players at the time. Then he went all weird, brought in Eileen Drewery and suggested disabled people must have done something naughty in a past life.

I was quite optimistic when Southgate brought in youngsters and we went all free flowing but he's reverted to type and picks names rather than form players. True he can only work with players available to him but some of his selections/tactics, including the current one are more than bizarre.

Just simply not true, he has picked the best squad possible. You could argue Lingard or JWP but neither of them are an improvement.

Time will tell, we are suppose to have some great players so let’s see how good he is

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:38 pm

Personally I think Southgate is the worst.

He's going into a tournament where a lot of people have no trust in him and would love him replaced.
Then he has a go at some England fans. Not very wise, as soon as we lose one, the daggers will be out for him.

The “fans” he’s had a go at seem to think it’s a good idea to boo their own team. Not for playing badly, but for making a simple gesture against racism. Not really supporters in the literal sense, are they?

I think Southgate is very wise to take the side of his team in this scenario. The daggers will be out for him as soon as we lose, regardless, but at least this way he retains the respect of his players, which makes the prospect of losing much less likely (although still all but guaranteed eventually).

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:22 am

Just simply not true, he has picked the best squad possible. You could argue Lingard or JWP but neither of them are an improvement.

It simply is true, he stated when he took the job he would pick players in form. I ask you this, regardless of his quality (as I personally think he's a good player) is Henderson in form? Based on the fact he hasn't played since Feb I don't think your answer could possibly be yes? Who finished the season in peak form for an English player? Stirling, Rashford, Lingard? Your answers to those questions will speak volumes.

Raggus wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:15 am

It simply is true, he stated when he took the job he would pick players in form. I ask you this, regardless of his quality (as I personally think he's a good player) is Henderson in form? Based on the fact he hasn't played since Feb I don't think your answer could possibly be yes? Who finished the season in peak form for an English player? Stirling, Rashford, Lingard? Your answers to those questions will speak volumes.

It depends the range of form you take into account, in terms of Henderson has there been an England midfielder in better form over 2-3 season period? He won absolutely everything. Or do you just take into account the last half season (because remember Lingard has only featured 16 times this season).
Surely you have to take the quality of the player into account?

Otherwise why are we not selecting Toney? He’s the most inform striker in England?

It’s because yes Stirling and Rashford have had a slight dip recently but there stats this season are still incredible and they have proven they are top players.

I just think anyone that says Southgate hasn’t picked the best players available to him are simply nit picking to the extreme.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:37 am

It depends the range of form you take into account, in terms of Henderson has there been an England midfielder in better form over 2-3 season period? He won absolutely everything. Or do you just take into account the last half season (because remember Lingard has only featured 16 times this season).
Surely you have to take the quality of the player into account?

Otherwise why are we not selecting Toney? He’s the most inform striker in England?

It’s because yes Stirling and Rashford have had a slight dip recently but there stats this season are still incredible and they have proven they are top players.

I just think anyone that says Southgate hasn’t picked the best players available to him are simply nit picking to the extreme.

Toney? Well about the guy in the North West Counties League who scored 36 goals. He is in form. Southgate is dreadful and has done nothing in his managerial career to show why he should of got the England job.

All them attacking players and he will still pick Henderson and Rice

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:37 am

It depends the range of form you take into account, in terms of Henderson has there been an England midfielder in better form over 2-3 season period? He won absolutely everything. Or do you just take into account the last half season (because remember Lingard has only featured 16 times this season).
Surely you have to take the quality of the player into account?

Otherwise why are we not selecting Toney? He’s the most inform striker in England?

It’s because yes Stirling and Rashford have had a slight dip recently but there stats this season are still incredible and they have proven they are top players.

I just think anyone that says Southgate hasn’t picked the best players available to him are simply nit picking to the extreme.

He may have picked in your eyes and he claimed this also that he has picked the best players.

Sadly just picking the best players doesn't mean you have picked the best squad.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:37 am

It depends the range of form you take into account, in terms of Henderson has there been an England midfielder in better form over 2-3 season period? He won absolutely everything. Or do you just take into account the last half season (because remember Lingard has only featured 16 times this season).
Surely you have to take the quality of the player into account?

Otherwise why are we not selecting Toney? He’s the most inform striker in England?

It’s because yes Stirling and Rashford have had a slight dip recently but there stats this season are still incredible and they have proven they are top players.

I just think anyone that says Southgate hasn’t picked the best players available to him are simply nit picking to the extreme.

But form isnt quantified over seasons, that's class. Form as they say is temporary, so taking players who are as you've just said in a dip is detrimental to the here and now, no point taking players who are out of form now because they were good six month ago. It just goes to show how subjective the statement is/was I suppose. I'd class form as how players are playing over the last 10-15 games, there the players you want starting. I see your point about Toney, but it's not really relevant, he's never played any top level football, the 2 must go together sometimes, by top level I mean prem and or European, not necessarily international as I don't class that as a higher level that European or even the prem.

Personally I think he has picked a good squad, I would change a couple but that's on opinions, I just hope from the squad of 26 he picks the in form 11 to start and for me that doesn't include Hendo, Rashford or Stirling even though there is no doubt about there overall class, there form is off or unknown due to injury so match sharpness won't be there.

Almost immediately, this thread has proved his point and the need to write to the fans. You attack him, and miss the message(s)!

The man, not the manager, is someone to be looked up to and admired for the way he is supporting the individuals and the group but they mainly the game we all love.

In my experience good players don’t always make good managers.

The most successful managers, manage people, not tactics. You’re in an industry where talent isn’t the limiting factor. They wouldn’t be representing England, Germany, or France if it was. If you’ve get the mentality right, if you can provide a culture and platform for performance then your performers will succeed.

Southgate is a players manager, they will walk through walls for him, and for many years prior to being England manager, when he spoke, people took notice.

Raggus wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:53 am

But form isnt quantified over seasons, that's class. Form as they say is temporary, so taking players who are as you've just said in a dip is detrimental to the here and now, no point taking players who are out of form now because they were good six month ago. It just goes to show how subjective the statement is/was I suppose. I'd class form as how players are playing over the last 10-15 games, there the players you want starting. I see your point about Toney, but it's not really relevant, he's never played any top level football, the 2 must go together sometimes, by top level I mean prem and or European, not necessarily international as I don't class that as a higher level that European or even the prem.

Personally I think he has picked a good squad, I would change a couple but that's on opinions, I just hope from the squad of 26 he picks the in form 11 to start and for me that doesn't include Hendo, Rashford or Stirling even though there is no doubt about there overall class, there form is off or unknown due to injury so match sharpness won't be there.

If you’re in a performance culture, you can’t move the pieces in and out based on snapshots of performance. Trust and loyalty rule in these cultures. Add an unknown and you can mess that up in a second. Toney just doesn’t look like a player i’d want in that group.

Henderson is a leader, a captain and I would imagine Southgates leader in the ‘group’. He comes and plays, no discussion. Look at Van Dyke with Holland. They’ve put him on the coaching staff for that exact reason.

If you want further reading, take time and go for The Jersey: All Blacks. One of the best sport books you’ll ever read about performance culture.

RMcCaw was asked about how you can identify players who didn’t fit in the culture of the All Blacks. He replied, they’ll only have one cap.

Regardless of talent culture wins out every time!

Claret_tinted wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:54 am

If you’re in a performance culture, you can’t move the pieces in and out based on snapshots of performance. Trust and loyalty rule in these cultures. Add an unknown and you can mess that up in a second. Toney just doesn’t look like a player i’d want in that group.

Henderson is a leader, a captain and I would imagine Southgates leader in the ‘group’. He comes and plays, no discussion. Look at Van Dyke with Holland. They’ve put him on the coaching staff for that exact reason.

If you want further reading, take time and go for The Jersey: All Blacks. One of the best sport books you’ll ever read about performance culture.

RMcCaw was asked about how you can identify players who didn’t fit in the culture of the All Blacks. He replied, they’ll only have one cap.

Regardless of talent culture wins out every time!

I'm not saying not to pick them, van dyke is on the coaching squad so he is there with the team, no problems with Hendo being the same, I'm talking purely on starting him. I clearly said I think he has picked a good squad my argument is picking players to start from that squad being based on form, generally all in that squad have been in and around the England set up long enough so are all in that 'culture'

I think Southgate's assembled a decent squad. His values are admirable and his players, hopefully, reflect those. If he alienates himself and the squad from a bunch of racist idiots, the kind of goons that are probably more than happy to wreck Marseille, for example, even better.

I hope England and Southgate have a successful tournament.

joey13 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:33 pm

Are you 6 ?

One of many who just want him to fail.

To me he has had good results when it matters. Is a progressive manager. Carries himself well and leads by example.

Judge him after the tournament. He didnt do too bad at the last one.

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:50 pm

One of many who just want him to fail.

To me he has had good results when it matters. Is a progressive manager. Carries himself well and leads by example.

Judge him after the tournament. He didnt do too bad at the last one.

You may want to go back to my posts during the last World Cup before you pass judgment

I don’t particularly rate Southgate as a coach, but these players all work under top coaches day in and day out. What I can’t find fault in is the way in which Southgate conducts himself, and the way he manages the group.

I’m not exactly an England fanatic but I would love to see them do well in this tournament as it will make for an enjoyable summer of football. The English people who are willing failure upon the team come across as bitter saddos to me.

He's probably the first manager to "get it" since Sir Bobby Robson.
He's well presented and spoken, doesn't hide from the media and ways willing to explain why he's picked certain players or done something a certain way.

I'd fallen out of love with the national team gradually over a number of yesrs and after the 2010 World cup in Africa I was done.
It just seemed like some of the players didn't get it, didn't care and we'd had a number of managers who were poor despite some being very successful at club level and kept getting obsessed with a Gerrard/Lampard combo

I'll give England a watch at this tournament, simply because I like/respect this manager and I like this team as a group.
We may not get far, we may not win it, but credit where its due Southgate is a manager I can follow and respect.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:28 am

Time will tell, we are suppose to have some great players so let’s see how good he is

I've lost count of the number of 'Golden Generations' we're supposed to have had since 1966, Elizabeth.

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:42 pm

How many genuinely top international sides have we beaten under Southgate? ... ( when it mattered I mean)...genuine question.

To some extent that isn't his fault. When every group stage has no decent opposition in it, you aren't going to play anyone good when it matters.

Of course, in the last Euro's England actually beat a side ranked in the top 10 at the time in the ELO rankings and who made it to the semi-finals, but was that pre-Southgate? Then came the might of Iceland.

timshorts wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:54 pm

To some extent that isn't his fault. When every group stage has no decent opposition in it, you aren't going to play anyone good when it matters.

Of course, in the last Euro's England actually beat a side ranked in the top 10 at the time in the ELO rankings and who made it to the semi-finals, but was that pre-Southgate? Then came the might of Iceland.

Southgate came in after the Euros. Hard to answer the question above as it's unclear what "when it matters" means. If you only count tournaments then we lost to Belgium and Croatia "when it mattered" but still got to a semi-final having done unbeaten in qualifying. Otherwise we've not really come up against many big teams as we've only played one major tournament.

Does the nations league matter? We beat Spain and Croatia qualifying for that who would probably count. Otherwise we've beaten the Netherlands and had draws with Italy, Germany, Brazil in friendlies.

I'm not sure how much performance against the top teams can be levelled specifically against Southgate either this picture is a couple of years old so misses out a win against Spain but shows that we've not been regularly beating these teams for 50 years.

rob63 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:36 pm

I've lost count of the number of 'Golden Generations' we're supposed to have had since 1966, Elizabeth.

Yeh, very true. A lofty media tag which seems to have started around the time of Beckham.
There's been a lot of overhyped and underperforming England managers since.

Southgate is the FA's wet dream in terms of being a media friendly yes man. For decades this has clearly been a more important part of the job description than actually winning matches and trophies. I would be delighted to be eating my words later in the summer but can't see us winning anything with the dead, robot-football that we've been playing. I seriously worry about Scotland turning us over.

Oshkoshclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:31 pm

Southgate is the FA's wet dream in terms of being a media friendly yes man. For decades this has clearly been a more important part of the job description than actually winning matches and trophies. I would be delighted to be eating my words later in the summer but can't see us winning anything with the dead, robot-football that we've been playing. I seriously worry about Scotland turning us over.

GS is great at charming the media, but TBH I couldn't care less about his PR ability as he'll rightly be judged on results, now in Russia we didn't fare too badly, but the disappointment in losing to Croatia was palpable, and if England are to make the last 4 or better in this tournament we'll need to be on the ball from match 1, this group has the potential to be a banana skin if we aren't prepared, and should the worst happen and we lose to Croatia in the opening game, and that's by no means out of the question given how tight the contests with them have been in the last couple of meetings, then there'll be huge pressure on that Scotland match, and although it's at Wembley this Scotland team under Steve Clarke is a different animal these days, and they will be well up for that contest even more so if they should happen to get a win over the Czechs in their opener.

Like you I will happily eat my words if Southgate masterminds a successful campaign, but similar to yourself I just can't see it sadly, and England's best chance of glory since Euro 96 will alas go begging again, we had a golden chance in Russia due to the draw opening up and blew it, and we effectively have a home tournament in the Euro's, now if we can't at the very minimum reach the semi-finals given the quality in our squad then Southgate should do the honourable thing and step down.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:47 pm

GS is great at charming the media, but TBH I couldn't care less about his PR ability as he'll rightly be judged on results, now in Russia we didn't fare too badly, but the disappointment in losing to Croatia was palpable, and if England are to make the last 4 or better in this tournament we'll need to be on the ball from match 1, this group has the potential to be a banana skin if we aren't prepared, and should the worst happen and we lose to Croatia in the opening game, and that's by no means out of the question given how tight the contests with them have been in the last couple of meetings, then there'll be huge pressure on that Scotland match, and although it's at Wembley this Scotland team under Steve Clarke is a different animal these days, and they will be well up for that contest even more so if they should happen to get a win over the Czechs in their opener.

Like you I will happily eat my words if Southgate masterminds a successful campaign, but similar to yourself I just can't see it sadly, and England's best chance of glory since Euro 96 will alas go begging again, we had a golden chance in Russia due to the draw opening up and blew it, and we effectively have a home tournament in the Euro's, now if we can't at the very minimum reach the semi-finals given the quality in our squad then Southgate should do the honourable thing and step down.

In Russia we were a side in transition with no expectations whatsoever. Yet got to the semis. And but for poor decision making on the field (think Kane shooting instead of passing) we would have got to the final.

Ahh the good old anti-Southgate agenda because he doesn’t pick half of Burnley’s defence who finished 17th in the Premier League and get destroyed every time they get put in a situation getting caught in behind a high line.

Get behind the guy he has played the hand he’s been dealt and picked the best squad available.

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:50 pm

In Russia we were a side in transition with no expectations whatsoever. Yet got to the semis. And but for poor decision making on the field (think Kane shooting instead of passing) we would have got to the final.

Yes you raise an important aspect that in 2018 we went to Russia with little or zero expectations, and it was a pleasant surprise to many we got as far as the semi final, and that Croatia game was frustrating because we could have had the match sewn up by HT, however we were wasteful, and it bit us on the backside later in the game.

However this tournament is completely different, and the semi finals is the minimum expected now, partly because of home advantage which should be a bonus, but could also be an added burden on the players, and also because this squad is more mature now, and should hopefully be more street wise at a major tournament, but unlike 2018 England won't get an easy passage through to the latter stages, so if we make it that far we'll have definitely earned it this time

He’s clearly limited in many ways.

The passing it around at the back we will have to “wait and see”. The Clarets have mugged loads of teams who do that without the personnel to do it right (as England don’t). The good international sides will definitely do it. I fear disaster here. We got lucky in the World Cup - an easy run.

The playing of players out of position is another one. I’m not a fan. Trilps is never a left back for instance.

Playing form players is likely to not be his route either - I predict it won’t be Foden, Mount and Grealish behind Kane. He will play Rashford and maybe Sterling.

Finally, all this lecturing of the fans implying he knows best which never ends well. We now get “Mr Choc Ice” Rio wading in as the main item on BBC Football today which is a bit hypocritical. My point here is that regardless of views on one side of this or the other it is starting to cause a huge divide (only 49% said to Yougov last year they supported footballers kneeling, it will be less now). Many choosing not to boo are pretty brassed off with it all. Southgate should have been savvy enough to sense this and try to get a “One England” support - as said above, the first mistake on the pitch and the knives will be out.

So all reasons why I sense poor judgement and, as a result, a poor if likeable manager. He’s not as clever as he thinks he is.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:16 pm

He’s clearly limited in many ways.

The passing it around at the back we will have to “wait and see”. The Clarets have mugged loads of teams who do that without the personnel to do it right (as England don’t). The good international sides will definitely do it. I fear disaster here. We got lucky in the World Cup - an easy run.

The playing of players out of position is another one. I’m not a fan. Trilps is never a left back for instance.

Playing form players is likely to not be his route either - I predict it won’t be Foden, Mount and Grealish behind Kane. He will play Rashford and maybe Sterling.

Finally, all this lecturing of the fans implying he knows best which never ends well. We now get “Mr Choc Ice” Rio wading in as the main item on BBC Football today which is a bit hypocritical. My point here is that regardless of views on one side of this or the other it is starting to cause a huge divide (only 49% said to Yougov last year they supported footballers kneeling, it will be less now). Many choosing not to boo are pretty brassed off with it all. Southgate should have been savvy enough to sense this and try to get a “One England” support - as said above, the first mistake on the pitch and the knives will be out.

So all reasons why I sense poor judgement and, as a result, a poor if likeable manager. He’s not as clever as he thinks he is.

Since 1990 how many England managers have taken England to a World Cup Semi Final?

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:18 pm

Since 1990 how many England managers have taken England to a World Cup Semi Final?

What's that got to do with what he's just said?

MACCA wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:59 pm

Most people have written him off and rightly so with his poor tactics, strange selections/approach and the results/performances so far.

I'm not Southgates biggest fan but the results so far have been excellent, no? breezed through all qualify with zero struggles, final of the nations league and semi final of a WC. I mean you can question his poor tactics, strange selection and boring football but as we are ALWAYS told on here, it's a results business, result first entertainment 2nd.

Lets cut the bullshit, the same people on here whining about Southgate's style of play are the ones telling us all it's all about results when it comes to criticising Dyche's style of play.

Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:28 pm

What's that got to do with what he's just said?

Everything to do with it. A post laced with criticism of a manager that has taken England further than any manager has since 1990 I just don’t understand. If Mee and Tarkowski were in the squad our fans would think he’s Gods gift that’s the sad reality.

Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:28 pm

What's that got to do with what he's just said?

Hang on, just seen it

rob63 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:36 pm

I've lost count of the number of 'Golden Generations' we're supposed to have had since 1966, Elizabeth.

Exactly and how many supposed better managers have done worse than Southgate? nearly all of them.
We had genuine world class players all over the pitch under Sven Capello Mclaren etc This group is nowhere near as talented, works way harder and has had better results, the people of England would rather whine than support the young team though.

Portugal just looked very good in their last friendly and I’ve got a feeling we will play them in the last 16. Can’t see us beating them. Just think it’s too early for this side.