Dear England

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AlargeClaret
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Re: Dear England

Post by AlargeClaret » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:51 pm

Seems ok to me ,though euro “21” will make him or break him. We were very lucky in the WC with the draw and were actually beaten 3 times in the tournament , and very nearly blew it but for an injury time goal in the opener . We built up momentum well though , he looks like a decent motivator who had a long successful career himself

Much will depend on the draw as we should ease out of the group . Plenty of talent but can’t see us beating France, Belgium ,Spain or Germany add to that the likes of Italy Portugal and Holland there’s no easy rides
Last edited by AlargeClaret on Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Winstonswhite
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Re: Dear England

Post by Winstonswhite » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:59 pm

Out of those teams you’ve mentioned, Southgates played them 13 times in total and only won 3, so not the best record.

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Re: Dear England

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:33 pm

This user liked this post: RingoMcCartney

Rileybobs
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Re: Dear England

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:37 pm

:lol: Please don’t tell me you read that website. I’d never heard of it but the content looks appalling.

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Re: Dear England

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:42 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:37 pm
:lol: Please don’t tell me you read that website. I’d never heard of it but the content looks appalling.
I know! How very dare people have the audacity to hold a different opinion to yours !? Crackers isn't it!!

🤣😅😃😉🤣

Rileybobs
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Re: Dear England

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:44 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:42 pm
I know! How very dare people have the audacity to hold a different opinion to yours !? Crackers isn't it!!

🤣😅😃😉🤣
Thought it might be up your narrow street.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Dear England

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:51 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:44 pm
Thought it might be up your narrow street.
Who said it is!?

However, I new it wouldnt be up your more narrow one.
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Re: Dear England

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:56 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:51 pm
Who said it is!?

However, I new it wouldnt be up your more narrow one.
I know! How very dare people have the audacity to hold a different opinion to yours !? Crackers isn't it!!

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Dear England

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:00 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:56 pm
I know! How very dare people have the audacity to hold a different opinion to yours !? Crackers isn't it!!
Oh dear! A very poor riposte.

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Re: Dear England

Post by willsclarets » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:07 am

What a nonsensical piece of guff that article is.

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Re: Dear England

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:17 am

AlargeClaret wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:51 pm
Seems ok to me ,though euro “21” will make him or break him. We were very lucky in the WC with the draw and were actually beaten 3 times in the tournament , and very nearly blew it but for an injury time goal in the opener . We built up momentum well though .Add to that a disastrous euro 2016 group stage knockout .

Much will depend on the draw as we should ease out of the group . Plenty of talent but can’t see us beating France, Belgium ,Spain or Germany add to that the likes of Italy Portugal and Holland there’s no easy rides
For sure it's in waiting it's a ready made excuse as with most england managers failure to win it's inevitable, I seriously think if the bloke won the world cup he still wouldn't be liked by some people, that's why we never win anything bar 66 we chop & change far too often instead of staying with the manager.

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Re: Dear England

Post by aggi » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:24 am

Doesn't Brendan O'Neil claim to be a Marxist? I thought proper England fans were well keen on booing Marxists?

He does love an article on football, although I'd be willing to bet he's as much a football fan as David Cameron.

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Re: Dear England

Post by Eyres_11 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:01 am

Good start to it, enjoyed it. Then it came clear, this wasn't wrote to be patriotic or a call to arms, this was wrote to try and get everyone to accept taking the knee - that was this articles sole purpose. They take the knee because they don't wanna cause waves if they don't and he clearly wrote this to show he is doing as he 'should'

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Re: Dear England

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:52 am

When a publication describes the Greek neo nazi Golden Dawn party as "good old-fashioned patriotic Greeks" you know what you're getting and you know the views they are trying to pedal.

No surprises that it will appeal to some on here but thankfully I don't live in their sad, angry and hateful world

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Re: Dear England

Post by Greenmile » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:27 am

Eyres_11 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:01 am
Good start to it, enjoyed it. Then it came clear, this wasn't wrote to be patriotic or a call to arms, this was wrote to try and get everyone to accept taking the knee - that was this articles sole purpose. They take the knee because they don't wanna cause waves if they don't and he clearly wrote this to show he is doing as he 'should'
Because the players’ decision to take the knee to protest against racism certainly isn’t causing any waves, is it? :roll:

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Re: Dear England

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:46 am

Milltown1882 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:30 pm
Everything to do with it. A post laced with criticism of a manager that has taken England further than any manager has since 1990 I just don’t understand. If Mee and Tarkowski were in the squad our fans would think he’s Gods gift that’s the sad reality.
It’s true my post yesterday was critical of Southgate’s judgement in many ways.

Let’s not forget though - in 2018 we only beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden (Colombia was lucky on pens). We lost to Belgium and Croatia - the only two decent sides we played.

He also has a great generation of youngsters up front which may turn things our way but I feel in a judgement sense he needed rock solid defenders to give them a platform. I hear now in the news we are thinking of playing Stones and 4 fullbacks in the first game. Too much messing about.

The jury is out is all I am saying. If he does well, I’ll tip my hat to him. If he wins the thing, he can lecture the fans all he wants. That just isn’t my pre-tournament prediction which is a waste of all that glorious forward talent due to poor tactics and defensive lapses.

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Re: Dear England

Post by Greenmile » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:02 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:46 am
It’s true my post yesterday was critical of Southgate’s judgement in many ways.

Let’s not forget though - in 2018 we only beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden (Colombia was lucky on pens). We lost to Belgium and Croatia - the only two decent sides we played.

He also has a great generation of youngsters up front which may turn things our way but I feel in a judgement sense he needed rock solid defenders to give them a platform. I hear now in the news we are thinking of playing Stones and 4 fullbacks in the first game. Too much messing about.

The jury is out is all I am saying. If he does well, I’ll tip my hat to him. If he wins the thing, he can lecture the fans all he wants. That just isn’t my pre-tournament prediction which is a waste of all that glorious forward talent due to poor tactics and defensive lapses.
So he has to win the tournament for you to allow him his freedom of speech?

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Re: Dear England

Post by Greenmile » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:16 pm
... (only 49% said to Yougov last year they supported footballers kneeling, it will be less now)...
Wrong again

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/sport/artic ... g_the_knee

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Re: Dear England

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:07 pm

I have my issues with Southgate in regards to tactics and team selection, but that was a superb piece of writing and very well timed.

He gets what it is to be England manager, he gets what it is to play for England, and he gets what it is to represent ALL England fans.

I think people forget that at times
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Re: Dear England

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:15 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:06 pm
Yes you raise an important aspect that in 2018 we went to Russia with little or zero expectations, and it was a pleasant surprise to many we got as far as the semi final, and that Croatia game was frustrating because we could have had the match sewn up by HT, however we were wasteful, and it bit us on the backside later in the game.

However this tournament is completely different, and the semi finals is the minimum expected now, partly because of home advantage which should be a bonus, but could also be an added burden on the players, and also because this squad is more mature now, and should hopefully be more street wise at a major tournament, but unlike 2018 England won't get an easy passage through to the latter stages, so if we make it that far we'll have definitely earned it this time
Let’s enjoy it rather than worry. People are saying ‘we should get to the semis. Anything less is failure’

Well. We haven’t kicked a ball yet. And there’s every chance we will go at least that far.

If we don’t as I say he will rightly be judged.

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Re: Dear England

Post by MACCA » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:00 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:29 pm
Lets cut the bullshit, the same people on here whining about Southgate's style of play are the ones telling us all it's all about results when it comes to criticising Dyche's style of play.
Nope I think they both play safe ( negative )
And the style is generally poor to watch with pockets of good play or a wonder goal, which you'd expect from a bunch of professionals every now and then.

The difference is Mr Dyche has the lowest budget in the league, arguably the poorest set of individuals on paper, yet regularly over achieves.
Southgate has the pick of the best English talent there is, he can set up how he likes, yet delivers dross game after dross game that's utterly boring to watch.

Then add the fact that he likes to get on his soap box and try to change the world just reinforces that he is a puppet in my opinion, just get on with managing arguably the most exciting crop of English talent there's been for decades.
What has he actually achieved as a manager, he got the job as he was the cheap sage option if you want my opinion, and he will cost us achieving what we could
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Re: Dear England

Post by KRBFC » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:08 pm

MACCA wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:00 pm


just get on with managing arguably the most exciting crop of English talent there's been for decades.
What has he actually achieved as a manager, he got the job as he was the cheap sage option if you want my opinion, and he will cost us achieving what we could
Where have we heard this before? :lol: We had world class players in every position for ages with Rio Terry Gerrard Rooney Beckham etc, what did we ever achieve?

Southgate has a worse crop of players atm imo (potential is high) and has reached a WC semi final, breezed through qualifying and reached the final of the nations league.

What was the last tournament England won? where does this incredible ego and arrogance come from? like we should be romping tournaments and blowing teams away :lol: Since I've been on this earth, England have had incredible individuals and been horrible when put together, this group has outperformed the rest, yet people are hating? confusing.

Southgate isn't a world class manager but there aren't any world class English managers.

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Re: Dear England

Post by KRBFC » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:14 pm

Has anyone here ever seen England lift a trophy?

The way some of you talk, you'd think Southgate took over a serial winning machine, ''if Southgate doesn't win the Euros, he's failed'' :lol: Have England ever won the Euros before? We haven't, have we?

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Re: Dear England

Post by MACCA » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 am

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:08 pm

What was the last tournament England won? where does this incredible ego and arrogance come from? like we should be romping tournaments and blowing teams away :lol: Since I've been on this earth, England have had incredible individuals and been horrible when put together, this group has outperformed the rest, yet people are hating? confusing.

Southgate isn't a world class manager but there aren't any world class English managers.
Regards your first point, no ego needed to play with s bit of passion and pride, also you dont need world class players or coaches to play an attacking enjoyable to watch brand of football.
That's purely down to the manager.

Your 2nd point, why does our national team manager have to be English?
And if he does, why dont we pick the one who is the best? Southgate has done nothing in management.

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Re: Dear England

Post by gandhisflipflop » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:12 am

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:08 pm
Where have we heard this before? :lol: We had world class players in every position for ages with Rio Terry Gerrard Rooney Beckham etc, what did we ever achieve?

Southgate has a worse crop of players atm imo (potential is high) and has reached a WC semi final, breezed through qualifying and reached the final of the nations league.

What was the last tournament England won? where does this incredible ego and arrogance come from? like we should be romping tournaments and blowing teams away :lol: Since I've been on this earth, England have had incredible individuals and been horrible when put together, this group has outperformed the rest, yet people are hating? confusing.

Southgate isn't a world class manager but there aren't any world class English managers.

Same ego and arrogance that believe any other leagues outside the EPL are akin to pub leagues.

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Re: Dear England

Post by jedi_master » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:31 am

AlargeClaret wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:51 pm
Seems ok to me ,though euro “21” will make him or break him. We were very lucky in the WC with the draw and were actually beaten 3 times in the tournament , and very nearly blew it but for an injury time goal in the opener . We built up momentum well though , he looks like a decent motivator who had a long successful career himself

Much will depend on the draw as we should ease out of the group . Plenty of talent but can’t see us beating France, Belgium ,Spain or Germany add to that the likes of Italy Portugal and Holland there’s no easy rides
I would argue that our squad is better than all of those bar France.

People bull up these countries based on history - go and look at the players they have selected.

Belgium might have De Bruyne (injured currently?), Lukaku, Tielemans and a fat, out of form Hazard, but what little else? A 34 year old Dries Mertens? This is a team that have selected Christian Benteke, Michy Batshuayi (a player that scored a sum total of twice in 20 odd games for Palace last season), Nacer Chadli, Thomas Vermaelen (remember him? He's 35 now playing in Japan) and lots of other older players who wouldn't have a cat in Hell's chance of getting into the England squad. Germany's main striker is Timo Werner! Spain's squad is laughable compared to what it has been, I would very much fancy us against them.

I fall victim most tournaments to hype, over confidence and the like with England - but I feel I am on my own this time. Nobody is backing a squad that has Phil Foden, Jack Grealish, Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho, Raheem Sterling, Mason Mount, Declan Rice, Harry Maguire, John Stones and Kyle Walker in it. These players get chastised by the press and fans, but compared to what is on offer in the squads of these other nations, we should be puffing our chest out and believing a lot more than we are doing.

This isn't a call to arms as such but let's really get behind them. Our first eleven has flaws in goal and in defence we are liable to an error, but we have a cracking squad.

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Re: Dear England

Post by Hipper » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:32 am

I've read the article and I don't agree with its general theme and notably these quotes:

'I have never believed that we should just stick to football'.

'It’s their duty to continue to interact with the public on matters such as equality, inclusivity and racial injustice, while using the power of their voices to help put debates on the table, raise awareness and educate'.

They should stick to football unless they have any other useful expertise. If they do decide to get involved in public matters (as Rashford did successfully) then it is right that they will have to deal with the consequences, namely that people will disagree with them. In the case of English football fans who don't like the taking of the knee, booing is the only way of expressing their viewpoint.

Players and managers are these days forced into the spotlight by today's incessant media attention to the game. It's certainly given them opportunities to influence matters but I don't think there is any duty or responsibility to take it.

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Re: Dear England

Post by Belgianclaret » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:26 am

England are one of the favorites for me to win this tournament,

IF they manage to cut out schoolboys errors at the back
IF they play to their main strengths namely their attacking prowess (Kane, Sterling, Grealish, Saka)
IF their manager can shrug off his reluctancy to be brave

Good luck :)

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Re: Dear England

Post by KRBFC » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:59 pm

MACCA wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 am
Regards your first point, no ego needed to play with s bit of passion and pride, also you dont need world class players or coaches to play an attacking enjoyable to watch brand of football.
That's purely down to the manager.

Your 2nd point, why does our national team manager have to be English?
And if he does, why dont we pick the one who is the best? Southgate has done nothing in management.
I've constantly seen better English sides with a supposed better manager perform an awful lot worse and try nowhere near as hard for my entire life. Give me Southgate and this less talented side over Capello/Sven/Mclaren with Rooney/Beckham/Scholes/Lampard/Cole/Terry/Rio/Gerrard ANY day of the week.

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Re: Dear England

Post by RMutt » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:39 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:59 pm
I've constantly seen better English sides with a supposed better manager perform an awful lot worse and try nowhere near as hard for my entire life. Give me Southgate and this less talented side over Capello/Sven/Mclaren with Rooney/Beckham/Scholes/Lampard/Cole/Terry/Rio/Gerrard ANY day of the week.
Looking at the players in your list I can’t help but wonder what part their club managers played In their under performance. Somehow I can’t imagine Ferguson sending them off with his best wishes for a great tournament for example. In fact you got the feeling they were dreading getting injured and having to go back and explain themselves. That’s if they got there, there always seemed to be a string of players suddenly unavailable and called back to their clubs.

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Re: Dear England

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:23 pm

Greenmile wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm
Wrong again

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/sport/artic ... g_the_knee
I hadn’t seen new polling on this so it is interesting reading, and yes I do see that in England the % supporting has gone up from 49% (when I saw it last year) to 54%, so I was indeed incorrect about predicting it would drop.

It doesn’t change the fact though that those percentages show this remains hugely divisive and a political gesture (one which I applaud, but not ideally at every single football match for a year - sport is a place to get away from that stuff and if it isn’t, many disadvantaged fans would be right to question why protests are never about them).

The key point for this thread remains the same - Southgate and the players exercising judgement to focus on this single issue was never going to unite the fanbase behind England and arguably makes us less likely to win the tournament, which is why I question his judgement, both on and off the pitch, even though I’ll wish him well and get behind the team this month.

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Re: Dear England

Post by Rileybobs » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:30 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:23 pm
I hadn’t seen new polling on this so it is interesting reading, and yes I do see that in England the % supporting has gone up from 49% (when I saw it last year) to 54%, so I was indeed incorrect about predicting it would drop.

It doesn’t change the fact though that those percentages show this remains hugely divisive and a political gesture (one which I applaud, but not ideally at every single football match for a year - sport is a place to get away from that stuff and if it isn’t, many disadvantaged fans would be right to question why protests are never about them).

The key point for this thread remains the same - Southgate and the players exercising judgement to focus on this single issue was never going to unite the fanbase behind England and arguably makes us less likely to win the tournament, which is why I question his judgement, both on and off the pitch, even though I’ll wish him well and get behind the team this month.
We should have a referendum.

On a serious note, who said that sport is a place to get away from this sort of stuff? Just because you think that and some people say it doesn't make it true.

Does Southgate's address to the nation even mention the taking the knee? I only read it once and don't intend to do so again, but I didn't see any reference to it.
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Re: Dear England

Post by KRBFC » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:44 pm

RMutt wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:39 pm
Looking at the players in your list I can’t help but wonder what part their club managers played In their under performance. Somehow I can’t imagine Ferguson sending them off with his best wishes for a great tournament for example. In fact you got the feeling they were dreading getting injured and having to go back and explain themselves. That’s if they got there, there always seemed to be a string of players suddenly unavailable and called back to their clubs.
Whatever the problem the point still stands, we’ve had incredible teams on paper and performed an awful lot worse than this side

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Re: Dear England

Post by RMutt » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:08 pm

I agree. The point does still stand. I just think he might have been a bit luckier with the club managers he’s had to deal with. Or perhaps, of course, he’s just been better at placating the awkward ones. Who knows?

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Re: Dear England

Post by evensteadiereddie » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:54 pm

Hipper...." In the case of English football fans who don't like the taking of the knee, booing is the only way of expressing their viewpoint."

What a bizarre statement.

You'd show the same understanding of anybody not comfortable with and showing their disagreement with, say, the playing of the National Anthem or honouring the Remembrance Sunday silence by booing, would you ?
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Re: Dear England

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:54 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:54 pm
Hipper...." In the case of English football fans who don't like the taking of the knee, booing is the only way of expressing their viewpoint."

What a bizarre statement.

You'd show the same understanding of anybody not comfortable with and showing their disagreement with, say, the playing of the National Anthem or honouring the Remembrance Sunday silence by booing, would you ?
Certainly an interesting link between those complaining people are being “forced” into the gesture and those who lose their **** about McClean every November.
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