Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by dandeclaret » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:55 pm

Absolutely rotten performance - in most areas. Batting has been 1/10, Fielding 2/10..... bowling 6/10...... team selection 2/10..... bottle, fight, intensity 1/10.... Mark Wood 7/10
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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:25 pm

How does Broad manage to get in at ten?

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by kentonclaret » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:37 pm

Who's the batting coach?

Jeremy Thorpe isn't it?

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by kentonclaret » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:42 pm

Bracey was recommended as a "player to keep an eye on" by Ed Smith before he departed his role as ECB national selector (role since made redundant).

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by Top Claret » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:06 pm

England cricketers lost the will to fight after being shafted by the ECB

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:24 pm

I just checked the test score for the first time today in the last few minutes after having the footy on most of the afternoon.

What a shambles of a batting display that was, I'd call it schoolboy cricket, but that would be doing a disservice to the schoolboys.

The only highlight of the day was seeing Jimmy take a wicket to add to his tally, and Mark Wood deserves better than having to constantly bail out this failing bunch.

It doesn't even bear thinking what the Aussie bowlers will do to England's brittle batting, at this rate there will be a few 3 day tests down under.

And for those saying England are missing several regulars, well so are New Zealand, so that is no excuse for this shambolic showing.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:40 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:50 pm
Yes. He’s a dreadful captain.
Great batter. Dreadful captain.
I wouldn’t disagree with that but who on earth can captain this team?

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:44 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:40 pm
I wouldn’t disagree with that but who on earth can captain this team?
Hard to captain a team who aren't even doing the basics correctly, the only person that springs to mind who might be able to whip this motley crew into shape is Ben Stokes for me.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:45 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:44 pm
Hard to captain a team who aren't even doing the basics correctly, the only person that springs to mind who might be able to whip this motley crew into shape is Ben Stokes for me.
Whipping into shape is one thing but some of these players don’t look as though they have the quality required.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:58 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:40 pm
I wouldn’t disagree with that but who on earth can captain this team?
Problem is there are only a few that actually seem to deserve to be there.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:45 pm
Whipping into shape is one thing but some of these players don’t look as though they have the quality required.
Sadly no some of them don't look up to test standard, Bracey certainly won't play for England again surely, but on the other hand Olly Stone has had a decent debut, a couple of wickets and some useful lower order runs.

The real problem is the lack of balance in the side, but when Buttler and Stokes return which they surely well ASAP. then we'll be able to select a top class spinner instead of relying on Root to turn his arm over.

The bowling doesn't unduly worry me, it's the batting where all the problems lie, today's collapse being a prime example, England fight back to give themselves a chance of setting a challenging 4th innings target, and then in the space of an hour they yet again throw all that hard work away.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:07 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:59 pm
Sadly no some of them don't look up to test standard, Bracey certainly won't play for England again surely, but on the other hand Olly Stone has had a decent debut, a couple of wickets and some useful lower order runs.

The real problem is the lack of balance in the side, but when Buttler and Stokes return which they surely well ASAP. then we'll be able to select a top class spinner instead of relying on Root to turn his arm over.

The bowling doesn't unduly worry me, it's the batting where all the problems lie, today's collapse being a prime example, England fight back to give themselves a chance of setting a challenging 4th innings target, and then in the space of an hour they yet again throw all that hard work away.
Top class spinner? Is Graeme Swann coming out of retirement?
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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:15 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:07 pm
Top class spinner? Is Graeme Swann coming out of retirement?
I’ve been watching test cricket for close to 60 years and we’ve produced very few top class spinners although we’ve always been at producing bowlers like Embury & Edmonds who use to bowl teams in rather than out. Swann was top class.
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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:27 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:07 pm
Top class spinner? Is Graeme Swann coming out of retirement?
No and we'll struggle to find another in that mould, but Jack Leech has shown that he's improving all the time, however if the bowlers don't have any runs to work with it won't matter how potent our attack is.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by Milltown1882 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:04 pm

The only positive I can take from today is being in a stadium again

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:40 pm

kentonclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:05 pm
India are the top ranked Test playing nation with NZ lying a close second.

There are no ranking points at stake in these 2 Tests.
I just thought with us playing India in the winter. If we won the series we would play NZ in the final. If we won the last test of the series then Australia would have played it.
India can't be far in front then.

The experts were saying The Rose bowl will spin more than swing but if it was at Lords I would expect NZ to win.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by diamondpocket » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:20 pm

kentonclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:42 pm
Bracey was recommended as a "player to keep an eye on" by Ed Smith before he departed his role as ECB national selector (role since made redundant).
As usual, pundits haven't a clue. He'll be back with the TMS team soon no doubt.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by kentonclaret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:26 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:40 pm
I just thought with us playing India in the winter. If we won the series we would play NZ in the final. If we won the last test of the series then Australia would have played it.
India can't be far in front then.

The experts were saying The Rose bowl will spin more than swing but if it was at Lords I would expect NZ to win.

New Zealand did go to the top of the Mens Test Ranking Table in January 2021 but the current standings and each country's Rating (taken from the official ICC website) are shown below

1. INDIA 121
2 NEW ZEALAND 120
3 ENGLAND 109
4 AUSTRALIA 108
5 PAKISTAN 94

I also checked the cricinfo website that also confirms the current standings as shown.
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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:26 am

Never watched the test, just too busy a day, but watching the wickets tumble on SSN it really was pitiful.
I expected the usual slashing at balls way outside the wicket, which is the normal downfall, only to find they were falling to balls straight down the wicket. The lack of foot movement from the players was abysmal. Schoolboy stuff. Are we really that bad, or is trying to compete in so many different formats put a coffin nail in our test match cricket. We don't know how to dig in. Don't know when to let a ball go without playing. Don't know when to take a long stride down the pitch to make the umpires job harder. We've gifted this match to NZ, and it's hard to see much different going forward.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by CleggHall » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:46 am

Yes England are in a bad state, return of Buttler, Stokes, Moeen and Woakes would help since the other 2nd string batsmen are not up to it due to being brought up on one day slogfests. There is a lack of technique about their batting compared to say Root and the NZ batsmen and this failing will take time to correct particularly as we launch into the gormless Hundred competition. Paradoxically this is what keeps 1st class cricket alive in this country since county 4 day cricket is not what people will pay to watch but it is there that technique is honed and applied. Not an easy problem to solve but we can all agree that yesterday’s performance was pathetic.
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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by wembley94 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:48 am

Only Root with a batting average more than 40 in the England squad
And none of the missing players are that much better

Really believe it's time for big changes in the squad

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by Spijed » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:27 am

Isn't part of the problem with technique due to the fact that most young cricketers want to play where the money is, in the limited overs game and T20 cricket such as the IPL and other big money leagues?

Hence why their technique will be geared towards getting quick runs, rather than being able to occupy the crease. Players such as Roy & Bairstow spring to mind in that respect. Brilliant one day players but rubbish at test cricket.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by kentonclaret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:31 am

Michael Atherton on Sky now saying that the England batting collapse yesterday did not surprise him

My only issue with that is not a single Sky pundit forecast that a NZ lead of 85 could be insurmountable for this current England batting lineup. Instead they all spoke of England knocking off the deficit before building a lead on a pitch that held no real terrors.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

As for our terrible batting technique(s) what are these high profile batting coaches and highly paid analysts doing?

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by lakedistrictclaret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:39 am

Totally agree Clegg.

Yesterday's performance sums up the result of pushing the County Championship in England to the peripheries of the season. There are no young players coming through who can bat long careful innings, or who can bowl line and length over long periods.

In ten years time it's possible that there will nothing but one-day cricket.
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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by kentonclaret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:01 am

Brilliant :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:01 am

All out before the 11am start. Olly Stone gone first ball.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:03 am

Spijed wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:27 am
Isn't part of the problem with technique due to the fact that most young cricketers want to play where the money is, in the limited overs game and T20 cricket such as the IPL and other big money leagues?

Hence why their technique will be geared towards getting quick runs, rather than being able to occupy the crease. Players such as Roy & Bairstow spring to mind in that respect. Brilliant one day players but rubbish at test cricket.
Precisely! and this is why I'd state that any centrally contracted England players shouldn't be allowed to play in the Big Bash or the IPL, if they don't like it then tough they won't be selected for the national side, this might sound harsh but something has to be done to halt the malaise of English test cricket.

Indeed you could even argue that central contracts have made the England players life too comfy, when was the last guy who got his central contract dropped I can't think of many.

This series offered an opportunity for some of the fringe players to stake their claims, Lawrence, Robinson & Stone accepted they've failed dismally.

Bracey has to go he's been poor behind the stumps, and contributed nothing with the bat, but the bigger concern is how much Crawley, Pope & Sibley have regressed over the past year, the former 2 in particular have gone backwards at a rate of knots after both made promising starts to their England careers.

All England had to do in this 2nd innings was bat for 4/5 sessions, if they had managed that then NZ would have been posed a tricky chase batting last, but just as in India England collapsed like a set of dominoes, and this isn't the first time this has happened in recent years, it's partly technique yes, but it's also down to the mentality and not being able to build an innings and simply occupying the crease and wearing an attack down, both of which you need to do in a 5 day test.

And the question has to be asked why can NZ manage to be competitive in all formats of the game while England seemingly can't, and this is essentially a 2nd string NZ XI who are convincingly beating England in our own backyard, so plenty for Chris Silverwood to ponder ahead of India and Australia looming large.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by kentonclaret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:04 am

With no time to get his eye in you could say he was "Stone cold" :lol:

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:14 am

kentonclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:04 am
With no time to get his eye in you could say he was "Stone cold" :lol:
Can't blame Stone for this shambles he's one of the few who can hold his head high, and if the specialist batsman can't score runs then we can hardly expect the tail to keep digging us out of trouble.

Clearly England are eager to get this done and dusted ahead of the footy this afternoon. :lol:

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:33 am

A wicket for Broad merely a consolation for England, 22 needed for victory now.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by kentonclaret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:52 am

So, it takes a female news reporter from NZ, sitting side on in the crowd at Edgbaston, to query the positioning of the England slip cordon for them to make a change.

What are these highly paid coaches and analysts doing?

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:58 am

kentonclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:52 am
So, it takes a female news reporter from NZ, sitting side on in the crowd at Edgbaston, to query the positioning of the England slip cordon for them to make a change.

What are these highly paid coaches and analysts doing?
Doesn't matter where the fielders are stationed if they keep dropping dollies does it.

Oh! another wicket, now if England had only got another 100 or so with the bat we might have had a decent contest.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:04 pm

All over the Blackcaps win by 8 wickets, a well deserved series victory for them as they've enjoyed the better of both games,
Last edited by tiger76 on Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:05 pm

Some serious questions to be asked now about this team.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:14 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:05 pm
Some serious questions to be asked now about this team.
Indeed! hopefully this rout will led to major changes ahead of 2 tough series against India and Australia, although who comes in is another question altogether, but it's been a baptism of fire for Chris Silverwood during the early months of his tenure, and sadly I don't feel it's likely to improve in the short term anyway.

The only pluses from this NZ series are Lawrence showing he can hack it at this level, and Robinson having a great debut in the 1st test, but sadly that was overshadowed by his social media history coming to light, and that whole episode sums up England's dire start to the summer, following a chastening experience in India in the winter, and it's now 5 tests without a win including 4 defeats in that poor run.

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Re: Eng Vs NZ 2nd test

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:47 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:05 pm
Some serious questions to be asked now about this team.
The coaching set up needs looking at as well.

Now I'm not a big fan of changing how players, called up for England play, but the amount of wickets due to playing the ball when they didn't nneed to while not trying to score was shocking.

If you're not trying to score and it's not hitting the wickets then leave it.
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