Scotland player's will NOT take the knee..

[gandhisflipflop]

BTW, anyone who still keeps linking this gesture with the political organisation after all of the information presented to them just isn't even worth engaging with.

Let me guess, because you are 'morally superior' to those people and you know you are right, correct?

[aggi]

Anyone who's let themselves be convinced that the england team are endorsing marxism needs to take a deep breath, a long walk and calm down. It's manifestly absurd.

You mean millionaire footballers aren't secretly Marxists?

I do love the double standard of "modern day footballers are spoilt millionaires, they should be role models" and "they should just stick to playing football"

[milkcrate_mosh]

Again, misunderstood. Nobody thinks that the England team doesn't have good intentions. I don't doubt that they don't have good intentions. It isn't hard to grasp that when there have been rioting, looting, defacing war memorials, and looking at what that organisation stands for, how it is extremely uncomfortable for supporters to see and how it is linked.

Let me put it another way, had BLM not jumped on the George Floyd case, and pushed their agenda, would we have seen the kneeling and BLM everywhere in this country?

What organisation? Black lives matter is closer to a slogan than a group. There's no leadership, no-one had oversight over where protests were occuring last summer, it was predominantly young people upset at what they were seeing in america and also becoming aware of perceived racial injustices here. There are people happy to call themselves "black lives matter" but there's not direct responsibility between them and individual events/protests. It's not a political party with a manifesto to enact.

Assessment of the thousands of protests last year showed they were overwhelmingly peaceful

Rioting - there will have been clashes with police as with any large scale demonstration. Out of 20,000 people attending events in London 14 were arrested. What looting occured in the UK? I can't find any evidence of that happening.

What war memorial was defaced? There was a rumour about the cenotaph being vandalised but it wasn't true. The memorial to Ear Haig had ACAB written on it but isn't a general war memorial. Someone wrote BLM on a civil war cannon in Worcester, someone wrote racist on a statue of Churchill.
Despite there not being any evidence I can find of town/village memorials being vandalised the far right mobilised to guard them escalating tensions but the idea that it was widespread practice is not true. A list of statue based protest from last year can be found here, other than the events above it's largely a list of people setting up petitions and organisations taking it upon themselves to remove statues. It's also not especially long. Given the scale of protests last year it would seem that they were largely peaceful demonstrations

I'm not sure what your question at the end is getting at, the statement BLM was popularised after another high profile death of a black man while being arrested by american police unsurprisingly. I don't think you understand the nature of a grassroutes protest movement, the people protesting in the UK were largely not members of any organisation but still took on the statement of Black Lives Matter. Anyone can write that on a sign, a placard and it's a black lives matter march there doesn't need to be a committee setting these things up. The idea that "BLM" hijacked this death to promote their nefarious agenda is exactly the sort of conspiratorial nonsense I was talking about above.

[Jakubclaret]

Let me guess, because you are 'morally superior' to those people and you know you are right, correct?

When as he ever been wrong?

[aggi]

I also love the idea that if this was simply rebranded as something like "footballers against racism", all those who are currently against it would suddenly support it.

[Winstonswhite]

Is anyone else sick to death of this discussion either way?

I thought politics/COVID chat was banned or is that not the case anymore.

[Top Claret]

BLM and taking the knee is just a whipping stick to stare racial hatred in this country and it must stop immediately

[aggi]

Good for the Scotland players. Hopefully their fans will show more respect for their decision than some of the brain dead England fans have done when other England fans have chosen to display their disapproval of their team taking the knee.

Well done Scotland.

POLITICS - KICK IT OUT.

So fans are allowed to show their disapproval but other fans aren't allowed to show their disapproval of that disapproval?

Sounds like double standards to me.

[RingoMcCartney]

What organisation? Black lives matter is closer to a slogan than a group. There's no leadership, no-one had oversight over where protests were occuring last summer, it was predominantly young people upset at what they were seeing in america and also becoming aware of perceived racial injustices here. There are people happy to call themselves "black lives matter" but there's not direct responsibility between them and individual events/protests. It's not a political party with a manifesto to enact.

Assessment of the thousands of protests last year showed they were overwhelmingly peaceful

Rioting - there will have been clashes with police as with any large scale demonstration. Out of 20,000 people attending events in London 14 were arrested. What looting occured in the UK? I can't find any evidence of that happening.

What war memorial was defaced? There was a rumour about the cenotaph being vandalised but it wasn't true. The memorial to Ear Haig had ACAB written on it but isn't a general war memorial. Someone wrote BLM on a civil war cannon in Worcester, someone wrote racist on a statue of Churchill.
Despite there not being any evidence I can find of town/village memorials being vandalised the far right mobilised to guard them escalating tensions but the idea that it was widespread practice is not true. A list of statue based protest from last year can be found here, other than the events above it's largely a list of people setting up petitions and organisations taking it upon themselves to remove statues. It's also not especially long. Given the scale of protests last year it would seem that they were largely peaceful demonstrations

I'm not sure what your question at the end is getting at, the statement BLM was popularised after another high profile death of a black man while being arrested by american police unsurprisingly. I don't think you understand the nature of a grassroutes protest movement, the people protesting in the UK were largely not members of any organisation but still took on the statement of Black Lives Matter. Anyone can write that on a sign, a placard and it's a black lives matter march there doesn't need to be a committee setting these things up. The idea that "BLM" hijacked this death to promote their nefarious agenda is exactly the sort of conspiratorial nonsense I was talking about above.

Mostly peaceful protests?

Screenshot_20210611-120726_Chrome.jpg (329.35 KiB) Viewed 1108 times

[milkcrate_mosh]

You're quite welcome to read the evidence I provided.

[Rileybobs]

Let me guess, because you are 'morally superior' to those people and you know you are right, correct?

No, because these people have been told numerous times that the reason footballers take the knee has nothing to do with the political organisation. So these people are either too stupid, ignorant or both, to engage with. So I guess it just makes me less stupid or ignorant, not necessarily morally superior.

[Jakubclaret]

No, because these people have been told numerous times that the reason footballers take the knee has nothing to do with the political organisation. So these people are either too stupid, ignorant or both, to engage with. So I guess it just makes me less stupid or ignorant, not necessarily morally superior.

Told by who?

[Tall Paul]

I wondered who would be the one brave (or daft) enough to point out the ridiculous logic in Ringo's post.

[RingoMcCartney]

So fans are allowed to show their disapproval but other fans aren't allowed to show their disapproval of that disapproval?

Sounds like double standards to me.

You're tying yourself in knots in your weak attempt and trying to portray me as a hypocrite. You've failed miserably.

Read what I said, absorb it .

If players want to show a display at what many disagree with. Then it's only fair that those that disagree with it are free to show their disapproval. It's really not a difficult concept to comprehend. That is , unless your consciously attempting to misunderstand it in a vain attempt to score a point!!

POLITICS- KICK OT OUT

[Rileybobs]

Told by who?

By the players who are taking the knee for one.

[RingoMcCartney]

You're quite welcome to read the evidence I provided.

And you're more than welcome to see the evidence before your very own eyes!

[Jakubclaret]

By the players who are taking the knee for one.

Well what's the explanation pre Floyd knee taking wasn't a consideration?

[milkcrate_mosh]

And you're more than welcome to see the evidence before your very own eyes!

I don't recall saying that there had been no unrest, I'm starting to see why you prefer pictures to words and figures.

I'm not surprised there were clashes with the police after an unarmed black man was shot 7 times in the back in Kenosha, I certainly don't think that a shadowy cabal of black militants would be required to set that off.

Well what's the explanation pre Floyd knee taking wasn't a consideration?

Taking the knee predates the death of George Floyd by almost 4 years.

[Jakubclaret]

I don't recall saying that there had been no unrest, I'm starting to see why you prefer pictures to words and figures.

I'm not surprised there were clashes with the police after an unarmed black man was shot 7 times in the back in Kenosha, I certainly don't think that a shadowy cabal of black militants would be required to set that off.



Taking the knee predates the death of George Floyd by almost 4 years.

Not in our domestic/international football it doesn't.

[MACCA]

By the players who are taking the knee for one.

Zaha is a player who no longer takes the knee as he says its degrading l, and he is proud to be black and will stand tall instead to show how proud he is.

Whilst QPR's stance was
QPR had stopped the gesture, in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, earlier this season after director of football Les Ferdinand said its impact had "been diluted"

So I very much doubt all the players/clubs even know what they are kneeling for or what it is against.
Just as those fans who boo know what or who they are booing at.
I am also in no doubt all those who just stand quiet or cheer to drown out the booing actually know what they are accepting/supporting

It's ok saying I know what players are doing because they tell me, but what would you do if they told you to jump off a bridge....

[Rileybobs]

Well what's the explanation pre Floyd knee taking wasn't a consideration?

I'll refer you to my previous post;

'BTW, anyone who still keeps linking this gesture with the political organisation after all of the information presented to them just isn't even worth engaging with.'

[Jakubclaret]

I'll refer you to my previous post;

'BTW, anyone who still keeps linking this gesture with the political organisation after all of the information presented to them just isn't even worth engaging with.'

So it's easier not to engage rather than debate articulately, valid points are being raised but your response is not to engage or counter back logically with valid reasoning.

[milkcrate_mosh]

Not in our domestic/international football it doesn't.

So what?

That an already existing form of demonstration was adopted while people protested racial injustice is hardly surprising. That the players still wish to demonstrate when there's been up to a 350% increase in racist abuse at some clubs is equally unsurprising.

[Rileybobs]

Zaha is a player who no longer takes the knee as he says its degrading l, and he is proud to be black and will stand tall instead to show how proud he is.

Whilst QPR's stance was
QPR had stopped the gesture, in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, earlier this season after director of football Les Ferdinand said its impact had "been diluted"

So I very much doubt all the players/clubs even know what they are kneeling for or what it is against.
Just as those fans who boo know what or who they are booing at.
I am also in no doubt all those who just stand quiet or cheer to drown out the booing actually know what they are accepting/supporting

It's ok saying I know what players are doing because they tell me, but what would you do if they told you to jump off a bridge....

As far as I'm aware people have accepted Zaha's stance on this. I haven't seen an uproar about him not taking the knee. It appears that people are respecting his decision, and likewise it appears that he is respecting the decision of other players to take the knee. Or does Zaha boo the players who take the knee?

'It's ok saying I know what players are doing because they tell me, but what would you do if they told you to jump off a bridge....'
Bizarre. The players aren't asking me to do anything so I don't really think I need to consider what I'd do in the highly improbable event that they tell me to jump off a bridge.

[Rileybobs]

So it's easier not to engage rather than debate articulately, valid points are being raised but your response is not to engage or counter back logically with valid reasoning.

With all due respect, in all of your posts on this messageboard I've never seen you react to logic or valid reasoning so I would be wasting my time. Like I said, you'd have to be stupid, ignorant, or both, to suggest players are promoting the political organisation by taking the knee.

[aclaretinstevenage]

The payer's of any country have the right to make a choice without being labelled as racist or - as the genius Rio Ferdinand states - an ignorant minority who need to educate themselves. Michael Holding actually said back in January when the Australian Cricket team didn't do it that anyone not supporting this is racist while the presenters sat like dummies and let him say it unchallenged.

This whole thing is divisive along those lines and decent people who don't support this "gesture" are now deemed racist when actually the constant barrage of this stuff from Sky Sports and BBC is in my view actually fuelling the online abusers so we are caught in a never ending spiral

[Jakubclaret]

With all due respect, in all of your posts on this messageboard I've never seen you react to logic or valid reasoning so I would be wasting my time. Like I said, you'd have to be stupid, ignorant, or both, to suggest players are promoting the political organisation by taking the knee.

The timeline with George Floyd & the prominent emergence of BLM & the knee taking which is universally linked to the group is 1 hell of a coincidence, knee taking & BLM are that well known as the swastika were to the nazis & chillingly as some similarities in terms of ideology.

[martin_p]

The timeline with George Floyd & the prominent emergence of BLM & the knee taking which is universally linked to the group is 1 hell of a coincidence, knee taking & BLM are that well known as the swastika were to the nazis & chillingly as some similarities in terms of ideology.

I thought you wanted articulate debate?

[milkcrate_mosh]

The timeline with George Floyd & the prominent emergence of BLM & the knee taking which is universally linked to the group is 1 hell of a coincidence, knee taking & BLM are that well known as the swastika were to the nazis & chillingly as some similarities in terms of ideology.

If you're so offended by taking the knee maybe you should take responsibility for removing yourself from its presence and not watching the football. Or if you're too anxious maybe a half dose sedative?

[Jakubclaret]

I thought you wanted articulate debate?

Your first contribution is to poke fun with no reasoning why I didn't want an articulate debate.

[Rileybobs]

The timeline with George Floyd & the prominent emergence of BLM & the knee taking which is universally linked to the group is 1 hell of a coincidence, knee taking & BLM are that well known as the swastika were to the nazis & chillingly as some similarities in terms of ideology.

You're nicely proving my point about stupidity and ignorance. Thanks.

[RMutt]

Having listened personally to a few people who are against the taking of the knee symbol along side some of their other views. I just don't find it credible that they are actually interested in black lives.

[aggi]

You're tying yourself in knots in your weak attempt and trying to portray me as a hypocrite. You've failed miserably.

Read what I said, absorb it .

If players want to show a display at what many disagree with. Then it's only fair that those that disagree with it are free to show their disapproval. It's really not a difficult concept to comprehend. That is , unless your consciously attempting to misunderstand it in a vain attempt to score a point!!

POLITICS- KICK OT OUT

I haven't said that those who disagree with it aren't free to show their disapproval. They can boo as much as they want if that's how they feel.

What I have said is that they should expect as much respect for the decision to boo the players as they are giving the players' decision to take the knee. Other England fans can boo them, criticise them, whatever. If you want that freedom it works both ways.

Maybe read what I wrote, absorb it. That is , unless you're consciously attempting to misunderstand it in a vain attempt to score a point.

[TheFamilyCat]

If you're going to make a spelling mistake, it's worth enlarging it and making it bold. It almost acts as distraction from the nonsense in the rest of the post.

[TheFamilyCat]

Where was the demand to keep politics out of sport when Dowden and Johnson criticised the ECB?

[Gordaleman]

Good on them, some people are starting to wake up & smell the coffee that BLM are a racist organisation, why it's taken so long God only knows!

Haven't you learned anything yet ? The gesture is not about the BLM organisation. It's about equality and inclusiveness in all walks of life.

[TheFamilyCat]

Haven't you learned anything yet ? The gesture is not about the BLM organisation. It's about equality and inclusiveness in all walks of life.

Some people refuse learn. That is why the message needs to stay.

[KRBFC]

An act that would've sent a much bigger message if done once, the message is lost now imo.

[martin_p]

An act that would've sent a much bigger message if done once, the message is lost now imo.

The good news is that the people booing are reinforcing the message and have brought it back to everyone’s attention, which is I’m sure what they hoped for.

[Jakubclaret]

Haven't you learned anything yet ? The gesture is not about the BLM organisation. It's about equality and inclusiveness in all walks of life.

OK then but why are we doing something that is connected to the BLM? If I wanted to distance myself away from people thinking I was a nazi I wouldn't be walking around doing heil Hitler salutes I'd be wanting to do something exactly the opposite, it's extremely strange people saying taking the knee & BLM aren't connected when it clearly is.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

If the England players did the Hokey Cokey before the kick off in a stance against racism you’d still get the same reaction from certain posters on here!

[MACCA]

If the England players did the Hokey Cokey before the kick off in a stance against racism you’d still get the same reaction from certain posters on here!

Yes, but some would turn themselves around, and that's what it's all about!