Today's Game

[KRBFC]

You may be able to explain this:
When GS made his tactical change, what was the intention behind it? I genuinely didn't understand it, and Chiesa loved it.

What was the tactical change? you mean going to a back four after they scored? We were pressed back with a back 5 and no outball, we looked leggy in midfield too. If we kept with that back 5, we'd have likely lost in 90 minutes with the way the game was going.

[FCBurnley]

Tough or stupid call to ask 2 players to score in a shoot out with their first kick of the ball. Surely Grealish and Sterling should have taken 4 and 5

[Vegas Claret]

What was the tactical change? you mean going to a back four after they scored? We were pressed back with a back 5 and no outball, we looked leggy in midfield too. If we kept with that back 5, we'd have likely lost in 90 minutes with the way the game was going.

not if we had swapped Grealish for Mount (who was incredibly wasteful in possession)

[KRBFC]

not if we had swapped Grealish for Mount (who was incredibly wasteful in possession)

I'm a huge Grealish fan, he was no better than Mount tonight.

[Jakubclaret]

I'm a huge Grealish fan, he was no better than Mount tonight.

How can you properly assess that like for like given the different length of time actually playing?

[KRBFC]

How can you properly assess that like for like given the different length of time actually playing?

people were desperate for Grealish to replace Mount and when he did, nothing really changed.

[Vegas Claret]

I'm a huge Grealish fan, he was no better than Mount tonight.

Grealish did more in the 4 touches he had than Mount did. Bring him on at 60 minutes and the flow of the game completely changes imho, we needed someone to carry the ball forward not a formation change. Either way, disappointed by Southgate's negativity again because he was positive in the previous 3 rounds, he bottled it today in the same way he did against Croatia but today he had better subs to choose from. We have to build the team around Grealish and Foden, if we don't keep the ball better in the heat of Qatar there is no point in going

[Jakubclaret]

people were desperate for Grealish to replace Mount and when he did, nothing really changed.

Enough time wasn’t afforded to influence any sort of change, the little time grealish did have he had no more impact than mount I’ll agree that far.

[KRBFC]

Grealish did more in the 4 touches he had than Mount did. Bring him on at 60 minutes and the flow of the game completely changes imho, we needed someone to carry the ball forward not a formation change. Either way, disappointed by Southgate's negativity again because he was positive in the previous 3 rounds, he bottled it today in the same way he did against Croatia but today he had better subs to choose from. We have to build the team around Grealish and Foden, if we don't keep the ball better in the heat of Qatar there is no point in going

Flip Flop

We took Italy all the way to ET, we looked the better side in ET. We lost on penalties, it happens. I don't think we were negative, we were good first half. We just got a bit leggy and got pushed back by 3 top class midfielders.

[Wile E Coyote]

Grealish .....emperors new clothes.

[Vegas Claret]

Flip Flop

We took Italy all the way to ET, we looked the better side in ET. We lost on penalties, it happens. I don't think we were negative, we were good first half. We just got a bit leggy and got pushed back by 3 top class midfielders.

no idea what you mean by flip flop

The only reason we got pushed back by Italy (3 top class midfielders, not sure about that claim) was because we just kept giving the ball away and made it far too easy for them. We were the best side for the first 25 mins then that was it. Mancini made effective subs, Southgate didn't. Huge opportunity missed in 120 mins.

[Jakubclaret]

no idea what you mean by flip flop

The only reason we got pushed back by Italy (3 top class midfielders, not sure about that claim) was because we just kept giving the ball away and made it far too easy for them. We were the best side for the first 25 mins then that was it. Mancini made effective subs, Southgate didn't. Huge opportunity missed in 120 mins.

Mancini was frequently freshening things up replacing jaded players with fresh players for energy boosts, some short lived periods in the second half we played ok but couldn’t create anything meaningful, I did think at certain points we was going to score but the goal never came.

[KRBFC]

no idea what you mean by flip flop

The only reason we got pushed back by Italy (3 top class midfielders, not sure about that claim) was because we just kept giving the ball away and made it far too easy for them. We were the best side for the first 25 mins then that was it. Mancini made effective subs, Southgate didn't. Huge opportunity missed in 120 mins.

Barella is one of the best young talents in Europe, Verratti has been a World class player for years and Jorginho is that sitting role is incredible. I saw Jorginho might be getting the Ballon D'or but with Argentina winning last night, they will likely lean towards Messi.

We were the better side in ET imo and first half we were comfortable. We were 30 minutes away from winning, Italy as much possession they had never looked like scoring all night. There was a 10-15 minute spell we were under serious pressure until they scored but apart from that, the game was pretty much a stalemate which suited us because we were leading for most of the 90.

As for Mancini and his effective subs, that's just an agenda against Southgate. Southgate made an effective sub after they scored, it relieved the pressure switching to a back 4, when we were in a back 4, did Italy even have a shot from that point onwards? I thought Italy were the better side with Chiesa and Insigne on the pitch, not sure what was effective about taking them off. Florenzi was on for 2 minutes, barely touched the ball. Belotti did nothing at all, even missed a penalty.

I know you wanna make it out like Mancini out thought Southgate (a man you said you were behind 4 hours ago) somehow but he didn't, that game was heading towards an England 1 niller but for a fortunate corner. It was a really tight game between 2 good sides, nothing to separate them, good old lottery of penalties.

[Vegas Claret]

Barella is one of the best young talents in Europe, Verratti has been a World class player for years and Jorginho is that sitting role is incredible. I saw Jorginho might be getting the Ballon D'or but with Argentina winning last night, they will likely lean towards Messi.

We were the better side in ET imo and first half we were comfortable. We were 30 minutes away from winning, Italy as much possession they had never looked like scoring all night. There was a 10-15 minute spell we were under serious pressure until they scored but apart from that, the game was pretty much a stalemate which suited us because we were leading for most of the 90.

As for Mancini and his effective subs, that's just an agenda against Southgate. Southgate made an effective sub after they scored, it relieved the pressure switching to a back 4, when we were in a back 4, did Italy even have a shot from that point onwards? I thought Italy were the better side with Chiesa and Insigne on the pitch, not sure what was effective about taking them off. Florenzi was on for 2 minutes, barely touched the ball. Belotti did nothing at all, even missed a penalty.

I know you wanna make it out like Mancini out thought Southgate (a man you said you were behind 4 hours ago) somehow but he didn't, that game was heading towards an England 1 niller but for a fortunate corner. It was a really tight game between 2 good sides, nothing to separate them, good old lottery of penalties.

What are you judging Verratti being world class on ?

I don't have an agenda against Southgate, that's in your head - I could accuse you of being pro-southgate regardless of his inadequacies but I don't. I prefer to debate.

Had Chiesa stayed on we would have lost in the 90 mins, he was the best player on the pitch imho

[KRBFC]

What are you judging Verratti being world class on ?

I don't have an agenda against Southgate, that's in your head - I could accuse you of being pro-southgate regardless of his inadequacies but I don't. I prefer to debate.

Had Chiesa stayed on we would have lost in the 90 mins, he was the best player on the pitch imho

his ability on the ball, plays for PSG for a reason, Barca were desperate to sign him for a while. He's one of the very best central midfielders in the world, he's generally recognized as that worldwide too.

Chiesa was excellent 2nd half, very good player.

I heard Cundy on radio say ''Italy looked dangerous without being dangerous'' and I think it's a fair summary of the 2nd half. I never felt we were clinging on, they were having a ton of possession without creating anything at all. Then after we switched to a back 4, we edged the rest of the game and ET without really looking like scoring either. There was really nothing in it apart from Italy possession and long range wild efforts (which was expected given they were desperate losing 1-0 for 60 minutes).

[Vegas Claret]

his ability on the ball, plays for PSG for a reason, Barca were desperate to sign him for a while. He's one of the very best central midfielders in the world, he's generally recognized as that worldwide too.

Chiesa was excellent 2nd half, very good player.

I heard Cundy on radio say ''Italy looked dangerous without being dangerous'' and I think it's a fair summary of the 2nd half. I never felt we were clinging on, they were having a ton of possession without creating anything at all. Then after we switched to a back 4, we edged the rest of the game and ET without really looking like scoring either. There was really nothing in it apart from Italy possession and long range wild efforts (which was expected given they were desperate losing 1-0 for 60 minutes).

So Verratti wins the French league every year (impressive by Poch to lose it this season) but has only come as close to winning anything in Europe as Harry Winks. No doubt he's a very good player when he's not being sent off but I personally don't think he's TOP class - I reserve that for someone like Kante.

Cundy is a clown as are most on talksport, if you think we edged anything in the second half other than a couple of mins here and there then you need to re-watch the game. I thought we were better in extra time (Grealish came on) as you say though.

[yTib]

saka is a young lad and a bloody good young lad.

he's got a bigger pair of nads than a lot on here.

[KRBFC]

So Verratti wins the French league every year (impressive by Poch to lose it this season) but has only come as close to winning anything in Europe as Harry Winks. No doubt he's a very good player when he's not being sent off but I personally don't think he's TOP class - I reserve that for someone like Kante.

Cundy is a clown as are most on talksport, if you think we edged anything in the second half other than a couple of mins here and there then you need to re-watch the game. I thought we were better in extra time (Grealish came on) as you say though.

Verratti is on Kante's level, the Europe argument is a meaningless one too given De Bruyne hasn't won anything in Europe either. It's not exactly a secret of Verratti being elite level, it's pretty well known at this point.

I thought we wrestled back more control after switching to a 4, neither side looked like winning it in the 90 though. The game in general petered out after they equalized, was nothing init, couple of set pieces, Stones had a great chance in ET, Grealish with a great effort blocked and Saka should've done better from Mounts cutback but meh, pretty flat nothing game, people say Italy edged it based on their 20 minutes 2nd half spell (but we were winning 1-0, they HAD to have the best of it).

[Taffy on the wing]

Clearly you missed the challenge on Grealish

The players foot landed on the ball and deflected onto Grealish's leg.....not a red.

[Vegas Claret]

The players foot landed on the ball and deflected onto Grealish's leg.....not a red.

in 1983

in 2021, it's a red card

[Taffy on the wing]

in 1983

in 2021, it's a red card

I assume you watched it on ESPN.......Mark Clattenberg explained in great detail why it wasn't a Red.
Also, i didn't think it was either. There was no malice involved, it was just an accident.

[Vegas Claret]

I assume you watched it on ESPN.......Mark Clattenberg explained in great detail why it wasn't a Red.
Also, i didn't think it was either. There was no malice involved, it was just an accident.

BBC one, not watching anything on yank tv !!

[California Colner]

We got what we deserved
One shot on goal scored
No shots or anything that looked like we would score the rest of the game
If that’s southgates tactics then we’ll never win anything

[Vegas Claret]

We got what we deserved
One shot on goal scored
No shots or anything that looked like we would score the rest of the game
If that’s southgates tactics then we’ll never win anything

Italians didn't do much better, it was a very tight game even though they had more possession. The future is far brighter than I thought it was before the tournament. A few tweaks here and there and this team should compete at most tournaments

[California Colner]

I agree Vegas
I just think the tactics are poor
When we went one up so early should have got at em attacked them put the fear of god in them
That’s what Les Latchem used to say to us when he managed the team I played for

[Spijed]

Once England scored did the Italian keeper have to make any saves at all, apart from the header that was going over?

With all the talk of English attacking talent it's very poor when you have few/no attempts on target and that's purely down to the negative tactics.

[bfcjg]

Still gutted,still annoyed, still dismayed with the tactics, still concerned that after home advantage and a so called golden era generation we are so technically lacking and yet again put graft before technical skill.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Helped you out there.

You’re devotion is admirable, if misguided,

He also labelled Denmark as shite, now he is bigging them up due to us beating them 2-1 with a penalty from a dive

[claretonthecoast1882]

You clearly don't know anything about football if you don't think Denmark/Germany are decent sides. I'm not claiming they're better than Italy because they aren't but they're absolutely decent sides. Unless you just don't understand the definition of decent. By the nonsense you're typing, Italy are the only decent side at the tournament.

by KRBFC » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:42 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:06 pm
I'm afraid that any side playing as directly and as quickly as Denmark did would have no problem beating us.
are you Scottish?

the scary Danes, who'd have thought it!!!! they're shite and nothing to fear


what a clown

[evensteadiereddie]

Explain. Are you having a go at KRBFC and me and are you saying the Danes didn't look dangerous before our game ?

[claretonthecoast1882]

Explain. Are you having a go at KRBFC and me and are you saying the Danes didn't look dangerous before our game ?

If that is for me eddie ?

You said the Danes were a decent side, I agree with that.

1 idiot claimed they are shite, then on the same thread claimed that someone doesn't know anything about football if they don't think Denmark are a good side.

[evensteadiereddie]

OK, I wasn't sure about the point you were making.

[superdimitri]

What did people think of the ref?
I personally thought he was playing a guessing game most of the time. I respect he wanted to let things go, and didn't want to fall for the diving but by ignoring that, he also ignored some blatant fouls.

Gotta say, it wasn't the best refereeing I've seen, I thought the German ref was a lot better vs Denmark.

[joey13]

What did people think of the ref?
I personally thought he was playing a guessing game most of the time. I respect he wanted to let things go, and didn't want to fall for the diving but by ignoring that, he also ignored some blatant fouls.

Gotta say, it wasn't the best refereeing I've seen, I thought the German ref was a lot better vs Denmark.

Not sure what other people were watching, I thought he was shocking, got so much wrong , including two sending offs , playing advantage when there wasn’t any , Sterling hacked down in the box .

[NottsClaret]

Parked the bus after 20 minutes, got outplayed for an hour, crap at penalties.

Great PR around the team these days, but very familiar story to every other time. I suppose it's good we're grinding our way further into tournaments but it's hardly the exciting new England side we were promised. For all the hype around the talented kids, it's Maguire, Stones and Walker holding us together. Shaw and Tripps have been good too.

Not gutted at all though about last night, best team won, no point getting angry about that.

[Hipper]

Italy were the best team I saw in the tournament. They couldn't beat England over 120 minutes. I don't feel we've lost. We are equal winners of the European Championships.

Spain were the only team able to really go at Italy and only lost on penalties.

England have certainly exceeded my expectations.

England's weakness is the same as Burnley's. We do not have quality defenders (goalkeepers and centre backs) that can do more then defend. Put pressure on them and they resort to hoofing the ball upfield and into the arms of the opposition. We also do not have the midfield movement to help them out. When teams pressurise England, as only Denmark and Italy did (perhaps Scotland too!), we have difficulties. Yet despite that limitation compared with the best sides, we have an attack that can be very exciting - the goal we scored last night was for me the goal of the tournament, superb football.

Overall, despite the early ridiculous amount of cheating, this tournament has been an excellent example of what football can be.

[evensteadiereddie]

Great call, Hipper.

[Colburn_Claret]

I've not been a Southgate fan, I'm still not.
We have an excellent crop of young talent that need moulding into a team. We did very well, deserved to get to the final, bit had our share of luck along the way. Germany were poor, Ukraine were knackered, the Danes a bridge too far for them.
A lot of positives Pickford, although Nick would have saved that free kick from the Danes, Phillips, Sako, Sancho, Bellingham, Shaw.
The downsides were Kane, who had a miserable tournament, and an embarrassing final, and Southgate who could have done better.
When we were on top first half Tripps and Shaw had acres of space on the wings and crested havoc, until Mancini closed them down.
In the 2nd half Italys wingers had the same space and Southgate did nothing about it.
I don't mind kids taking penalties, although wiser heads might have been better, but why let someone who hasn't kicked the ball take one. Your heart might be in the game, but body and mind isn't. They were on a hiding to nothing, and Southgate should have known better.

The bottom line is Italy deserved it, not just for the final, but the tournament and 34 undefeated.

[Wile E Coyote]

saka is a young lad and a bloody good young lad.

he's got a bigger pair of nads than a lot on here.

surely this is a medical matter and unlikely to be proven...also, its a bit off topic for a post match analysis.

[KRBFC]

If that is for me eddie ?

You said the Danes were a decent side, I agree with that.

1 idiot claimed they are shite, then on the same thread claimed that someone doesn't know anything about football if they don't think Denmark are a good side.

Why didn't you pull up the post where I said I was wrong about the Danes?

[KRBFC]

KRBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:28 pm
Danes are a better side than I gave them credit for, gave us a good run here.

[tiger76]

On reflection my overriding emotion is frustration, we got the early goal, and then had a good spell for about 25-30 minutes where we really made Italy look laboured, however during that spell we created little, and once they'd come to grips with our formation, and Mancini tweaked one or two things they took control, and it was no surprise when they finally equalised, however even that was a soft goal to concede, lost the first header at the near post, and Pickford apart we failed to react to the 2nd ball, even then we were slightly unlucky as on another day JP saves it and it goes behind for a corner, instead it cannons off the post and lands right at the feet of Bonucci who couldn't miss, then we had to ride an Italian storm, but slowly we worked ourselves back into the match, and arguably had the better of ET whilst neither team created much of any note.

And then even on pens we got our noses in front, but sadly couldn't see it through despite Pickford's heroics, however in spite of the huge disappointment we have to put England's tournament as a whole into context, if you'd have said a month ago we'd reach the final, and run a good Italian team mightily close most people would have considered that as a successful campaign, and don't forget this was England's 1st major final in 55 years, and 1st EC final ever, so we are making progress year on year under Southgate, and if we continue getting to the latter stages of tournaments, then sooner or later we'll get our hands on silverware.

In the grand scheme of thing Gareth Southgate's regime has been a successful one in the main.

2018 WC semi-finalists- only losing late on in ET to a talented and experienced Croatia team, finally finishing 4th.
2019 NL semi-finalists- again losing in ET to a talented Dutch team, and beating Switzerland in the 3rd placed play-off to finally finish 3rd.
2021 EC finalists- and only losing out on penalties to an experienced Italian team who've now gone 34 games unbeaten.

So in summary we are edging closer, and crucially this young squad & manager is gaining valuable international experience in tournament football.

I don't harbour any great hopes for the next WC mainly because it's taking place in Qatar, but I have high hopes for Germany 2024 when this squad should be coming to it's ripeness in maturity, and we'll have hopefully become more streetwise at this level.