Capacity V Brighton

[Rombald]

No. That’s why they’re saying the end of September, time for anyone who hasn’t been vaccinated to have both.

No = under 18s won't be allowed or No= No need for under 18s to be tested?

[Murger]

The Vaccine Passport is discriminatory. I won't be playing along.

[ksrclaret]

Keys, wallet, phone, identity papers, lucky scarf. Check.

Okay, good to go, I do hope Dyche makes a sub today.

[martin_p]

No = under 18s won't be allowed or No= No need for under 18s to be tested?

Sorry, misread your question. Don’t know. I guess it doesn’t matter for the only confirmed place where this will apply, I.e. nightclubs, as you have to be 18 to get in anyway.

[Aclaret]

Will guess the gate be back for this game ?
Could be some interesting one's.

[Rombald]

Sorry, misread your question. Don’t know. I guess it doesn’t matter for the only confirmed place where this will apply, I.e. nightclubs, as you have to be 18 to get in anyway.

No problems! I guess ,none of us currently know. I'd be very surprised however if this doesn't impact football

[martin_p]

The press conference is majoring on ‘the risk posed by nightclubs’ and they haven’t mentioned anything else despite the opportunity to do so. So maybe it is just nightclubs.

[mikeS]

I think the passport only applies to inside venues.

There again it could affect internal bits of the club like - corporate hospitality, boxes, lounges, boardrooms, and maybe enclosed spaces like concourses? Who knows - the governments does U-Turns by the day.

[Boss Hogg]

Can only think they don't want any fans touching players.

More likely to protect the fans from players spitting

[Boss Hogg]

If vaccination passports aren’t a requirement I wonder whether more or less fans will attend. I’d think twice and certainly won’t be going without a mask.

[jrgbfc]

It's a cynical attempt to force young people to have the vaccine, which is why it's focused on nightclubs.

[Loyalclaret]

I would guess less, I say that as someone who is double jabbed and prepared to wear a mask if it was required.

[Devils_Advocate]

Dont think they'll be much in it but you can bet the ones we hear about are the anti-vaxers. They've started to sound like vegans in that they've got to tell everyone that they wont get a vaccine and refuse to comply with vaccine passports

How can you tell someone hasn't had the vaccine? Don't worry they'll tell you

[ksrclaret]

I'm looking forward to when the club shop brings out it's range of armbands with the Burnley FC crest on it for those fans who have weaker immune systems. It'll be interesting to try and spot them when there is a break in play.

[Grumps]

It's a cynical attempt to force young people to have the vaccine, which is why it's focused on nightclubs.

It's better than offering them cannabis, which one American state is doing to tempt them..

[clarethomer]

Will have to wait - It sounds like these headlines are likely to face scrutiny and numerous change in direction.

It said on sky news the other venues bit

Screenshot 2021-07-19 at 18.27.48.png (136.57 KiB) Viewed 3539 times

[wilks_bfc]

It's better than offering them cannabis, which one American state is doing to tempt them..

But is it better than this?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/las- ... 52178.html

[Lancasterclaret]

The only issue and comparisons to nightclubs are the concourses and toilets

I can't see vaccination passports being required for football matches, if only because the very cynical me knows this will reflect badly on the government.

[cricketfieldclarets]

If vaccination passports aren’t a requirement I wonder whether more or less fans will attend. I’d think twice and certainly won’t be going without a mask.

I will be double jabbed come season start. And wouldn’t attend if a mask was mandatory.

I probably wouldn’t attend half of much of jabs were mandatory. And I’d have had them both.

[Lancasterclaret]

If you've got a valid medical reason not to be jabbed twice, then fair play

If you haven't, then the only explanation is that you've read some ******** somewhere and now believe even more keenly than Luke became a Jedi within five minutes of hearing about it in Star Wars.

[RVclaret]

Absolutely disgusting from the Government coercing people to take a vaccine and the start of a very slippery slope.

[ksrclaret]

Blessed be the 442.

May the Chairman’s cheque book open.

Under his hoof.

These are pre-approved greetings for fellow supporters upon entering the ground, having shown your papers. The ceremony will then take place for 90 minutes. See you there, folks.

[Lancasterclaret]

Absolutely disgusting from the Government coercing people to take a vaccine and the start of a very slippery slope.

Yup

Think a much better solution is persuading people to take it, and taking on those that say its not safe to prove them wrong

[TheFamilyCat]

Interesting statement from the vaccine minister in the last half hour.

‘ Zahawi has announced that people will be required to be fully vaccinated to attend "large crowded settings" such as nightclubs from the end of September - after all over-18s have had the chance to receive both vaccine doses and develop immunity.

"So at that point we plan to make full vaccination a condition of entry to nightclubs and other venues where large crowds gather, proof of a negative test will no longer be sufficient," he said.

"We will ensure the appropriate exemptions for those who have genuine medical reasons of why they can't get vaccinated and I'm clear we will always look at the evidence available and do all we can to ensure people can continue to do the things they love."

Wonder if ‘venues where large crowds gather’ will include sports stadia?

Genuinely baffled by this. If you need a covid passport that should start now not in 2.5 months. How much damage is going to have been done by the end of September? Or do they just hope anyone who isn't double jabbed will just wait until they are?

[tiger76]

Will guess the gate be back for this game ?
Could be some interesting one's.

Hope so I like guess the gate. but yes you're right it could be a tricky one to predict.

[Loyalclaret]

Genuinely baffled by this. If you need a covid passport that should start now not in 2.5 months. How much damage is going to have been done by the end of September? Or do they just hope anyone who isn't double jabbed will just wait until they are?

The youngest group have only just been allowed to start having their jabs, add 8/12 weeks and the timing makes sense.

If they have not had it by then, it is their choice but may not be able to access certain situations. They'll be a u-turn in this by September/October

[karatekid]

Probably just trying to encourage young people to get double jabbed before winter and using the nightclub thing as a carrot. If it makes them go out and get DJ'd its a good move. ( see what I did there)

[RVclaret]

Probably just trying to encourage young people to get double jabbed before winter and using the nightclub thing as a carrot. If it makes them go out and get DJ'd its a good move. ( see what I did there)

Can you or someone please explain why young people, with a survival rate higher than being struck by lightning on the street, have to get a vaccine that no one knows long term potential side effects to? Everyone who needs a vaccine has had one, everyone who needs two has had one. I’m 27, I’ve had COVID, hardly felt it as I’m extremely health / fit and never had the flu in my life. Why should I be forced to have a vaccine to attend a football match or go to a bar? It’s nonsensical.

[Dyched]

Can you or someone please explain why young people, with a survival rate higher than being struck by lightning on the street, have to get a vaccine that no one knows long term potential side effects to? Everyone who needs a vaccine has had one, everyone who needs two has had one. I’m 27, I’ve had COVID, hardly felt it as I’m extremely health / fit and never had the flu in my life. Why should I be forced to have a vaccine to attend a football match or go to a bar? It’s nonsensical.

I’m a few years older and baffled by it. People have been “forced” to have it with talk of vaccine passports. People have lost the plot massively over this.

Go back to the very start. Stay home, protect the elderly, most people won’t even know they’ve had it.

Can you catch it twice? No evidence. How long does the vaccine last. Oh and flu, vanished last year. Now there’s talk of vaccinating young people against flu. Eh?

We’ll be back in lockdown September/October/November because of Flu.

[martin_p]

Can you or someone please explain why young people, with a survival rate higher than being struck by lightning on the street, have to get a vaccine that no one knows long term potential side effects to? Everyone who needs a vaccine has had one, everyone who needs two has had one. I’m 27, I’ve had COVID, hardly felt it as I’m extremely health / fit and never had the flu in my life. Why should I be forced to have a vaccine to attend a football match or go to a bar? It’s nonsensical.

Because when you do have it you may be fine but the person you give it to might be dead.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Because when you do have it you may be fine but the person you give it to might be dead.

Which would be a fine argument… if the vaccine stopped you catching and transmitting it.

Again from someone who will be having both jabs.

[Inchy]

Can you or someone please explain why young people, with a survival rate higher than being struck by lightning on the street, have to get a vaccine that no one knows long term potential side effects to? Everyone who needs a vaccine has had one, everyone who needs two has had one. I’m 27, I’ve had COVID, hardly felt it as I’m extremely health / fit and never had the flu in my life. Why should I be forced to have a vaccine to attend a football match or go to a bar? It’s nonsensical.

Read the science on it. It’s not difficult to understand honestly.

If you can’t be arsed to do that then just trust the scientists. I know I didn’t try hard enough at school to argue with all the worlds leading virologists.

[Inchy]

Which would be a fine argument… if the vaccine stopped you catching and transmitting it.

Again from someone who will be having both jabs.

It doesn’t 100% stop you catching it but so far the evidence suggests that it will massively reduce the risk of catching and spreading.


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanm ... 0/fulltext

[RVclaret]

Because when you do have it you may be fine but the person you give it to might be dead.

Sorry but false argument - people are still catching it and passing it on despite being double jabbed. Prof Ferguson (I think) yesterday confirmed that 40% of the current hospital admissions have been double jabbed.

[Inchy]

Sorry but false argument - people are still catching it and passing it on despite being double jabbed. Prof Ferguson (I think) yesterday confirmed that 40% of the current hospital admissions have been double jabbed.

That’s because many of those are extremely vulnerable. The good news is those double jabs far less likely to require intensive care. A few days of oxygen on a ward and they go home, where otherwise they would be on ICU with a massive risk of dying. The vast majority of covid patients in intensive care where I work are not vaccinated

[Murger]

I struggle to see how anybody can actually support this move, essentially creating a 2 tier society. It's nazi Germany all over again.

[Inchy]

And there we have it.......Godwin’s law

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[2 Bee Holed]

That’s because many of those are extremely vulnerable. The good news is those double jabs far less likely to require intensive care. A few days of oxygen on a ward and they go home, where otherwise they would be on ICU with a massive risk of dying. The vast majority of covid patients in intensive care where I work are not vaccinated

Now this is interesting. We don't seem to be getting insight into this, or I don't.
Inchy, the patients in ICU, were they elligible for the vaccine or could they not have it?
Do you find the average age of people in ICU is dropping?

[lakedistrictclaret]

I'm just looking forward to being able to go back to Turf Moor, for the Brighton game.

I have to say, I'd feel more comfortable if I knew everyone around me had been fully vaccinated.

But I'll go anyway.

[Devils_Advocate]

I struggle to see how anybody can actually support this move, essentially creating a 2 tier society. It's nazi Germany all over again.

What a disgraceful comment, you should maybe take some time away from social media to learn about the horrors of what Nazi Germany and the holocaust entailed before making pathetic assertions like this.

[jedi_master]

I struggle to see how anybody can actually support this move, essentially creating a 2 tier society. It's nazi Germany all over again.

Hmmm, not sure what transpired in Germany in the 30s and 40s is quite the same as high capacity venues penalising someone choosing to reject a proven effective vaccine because they saw Trisha on Facebook say that her uncle's, friends, sisters dog got a brain tumour after having Astra Zeneca. It may become a two tier society by the second tiers choice, it's not like the lower class on the Titanic being banished to the engine room. Anyone (who is not medically exempt, of course) can join the 'upper tier' and party on deck if they wish to do so.

The reality is (as it stands) 87% of eligible adults have had at least one dose as of yesterday. The 13% of people who are, for reasons unknown, choosing to not have the vaccine cannot hold them back. They can call that selfish, I would say that would be incredibly hypocritical.

Only other way is to (and I am not joking here) consider making a vaccine free zone in stadiums for the rest of us all to steer clear and have their own concourse. If we take it as read that 13% of Burnley fans won't have had the vaccine through their own choice, perhaps this could be viable for the Lower Tier of the Jimmy Mac or something. I am genuinely not trying to enrage anyone here, I am trying to suggest solutions to what will invariably become an ongoing/rolling problem to be solved.

I think the anti vaccination public need to begin to accept things such as this - aeroplanes especially will be very interesting, I cannot see a single one authorizing bordering without a vaccine passport due to the re-use of oxygen circulating. Are these affronts to your freedom (and I mean that sincerely) really worth the anti government/anti system/rebellious stance being taken?

[martin_p]

Sorry but false argument - people are still catching it and passing it on despite being double jabbed. Prof Ferguson (I think) yesterday confirmed that 40% of the current hospital admissions have been double jabbed.

It’s not a false argument. Life isn’t that black and white on most things it’s about managing risk. People can still get run over by a car on a zebra crossing but they reduce the risk of doing so so people tend to use them. Vaccines aren’t a silver bullet that stop transmission and mortality but they do significantly reduce the risk so many people (especially those susceptible to respiratory diseases) will be more likely to mix with others knowing that the risk of the worse happening is reduced.

[Inchy]

Now this is interesting. We don't seem to be getting insight into this, or I don't.
Inchy, the patients in ICU, were they elligible for the vaccine or could they not have it?
Do you find the average age of people in ICU is dropping?

Vast majority unvaccinated. I’d say slightly younger but not had enough in to accurately say

[martin_p]

Hmmm, not sure what transpired in Germany in the 30s and 40s is quite the same as high capacity venues penalising someone choosing to reject a proven effective vaccine because they saw Trisha on Facebook say that her uncle's, friends, sisters dog got a brain tumour after having Astra Zeneca. It may become a two tier society by the second tiers choice, it's not like the lower class on the Titanic being banished to the engine room. Anyone (who is not medically exempt, of course) can join the 'upper tier' and party on deck if they wish to do so.

The reality is (as it stands) 87% of eligible adults have had at least one dose as of yesterday. The 13% of people who are, for reasons unknown, choosing to not have the vaccine cannot hold them back. They can call that selfish, I would say that would be incredibly hypocritical.

Only other way is to (and I am not joking here) consider making a vaccine free zone in stadiums for the rest of us all to steer clear and have their own concourse. If we take it as read that 13% of Burnley fans won't have had the vaccine through their own choice, perhaps this could be viable for the Lower Tier of the Jimmy Mac or something. I am genuinely not trying to enrage anyone here, I am trying to suggest solutions to what will invariably become an ongoing/rolling problem to be solved.

I think the anti vaccination public need to begin to accept things such as this - aeroplanes especially will be very interesting, I cannot see a single one authorizing bordering without a vaccine passport due to the re-use of oxygen circulating. Are these affronts to your freedom (and I mean that sincerely) really worth the anti government/anti system/rebellious stance being taken?

And for the 13% who haven’t had the vaccination it’s worth remembering that the only reason we’re in a position to set foot back in football grounds again is because 87% have been vaccinated.

[jedi_master]

And for the 13% who haven’t had the vaccination it’s worth remembering that the only reason we’re in a position to set foot back in football grounds again is because 87% have been vaccinated.

Correct!

[Inchy]

It’s not a false argument. Life isn’t that black and white on most things it’s about managing risk. People can still get run over by a car on a zebra crossing but they reduce the risk of doing so so people tend to use them. Vaccines aren’t a silver bullet that stop transmission and mortality but they do significantly reduce the risk so many people (especially those susceptible to respiratory diseases) will be more likely to mix with others knowing that the risk of the worse happening is reduced.

Also consider the volume of people with covid in community. It’s massive. Now the vast majority of elderly and vulnerable people have had the jab. They are also more likely to suffer the consequences of covid. Because they are jabbed they are less likely to need to come to hospital. If they do come to hospital they are far less likely to need ICU, and are far less likely to die.

60 percent of admissions are not vaccinated. So they are either elderly vulnerable people who declined the jab because of conspiracy (or other reasons), or they are young and fit and don’t think they will get bad covid.

From what I’m seeing you are far more likely to end up on ICU if you haven’t had the jab

[Inchy]

Imagine you found out you had a brain aneurysm. It needs sorting but can be done electively. It’s a time bomb in your head waiting to go off. If not treated it will kill you.

Now in order to have that elective op you need an ICU bed because that’s where you will go post op. But you can’t have an ICU bed because there aren’t any. Most big cities will only have a capacity of about 30 ICU beds. Fill just 5 of them with covids and you cannot have the time bomb sorted. The elective op will be cancelled, rearranged, and cancelled etc etc.


Sounds far fetched. It isn’t

[dsr]

Sorry but false argument - people are still catching it and passing it on despite being double jabbed. Prof Ferguson (I think) yesterday confirmed that 40% of the current hospital admissions have been double jabbed.

What he didn't say was whether those 40% were ill with covid. They may have gone to hospital with something else and, when tested (as all hospital admissions are), discovered they had aymptomatic covid.

On the law of averages, if covid made no difference whatsover to health, there would be about 400 covid admissions per day, purely based on 40,000 people per day admitted to hospital and 1% of the population has covid. (It would be a but less in reality, because the age demographic of people admitted to hospital tends to be older, and the age demographic of people with covid is younger.)

In terms of football, in a 20,000 crowd at present you would not expect 200 of them to have covid, because at least some of them know they have it and won't be leaving the house.

[Eyres_11]

Absolutely disgusting from the Government coercing people to take a vaccine and the start of a very slippery slope.

They give everyone the chance to get it. If you don't then you won't be able to attend things. Tough.

[superdimitri]

340,000 fans over the Silverstone weekend and 140,000 at any one time. Would be a bit of a kick in the teeth if that was allowed and 20k isn't.

I mean, if you're been to a race meeting it's much more than a match. It lasts longer, you spend more time around people even when the event isn't on. To most football fans you're in and out pretty fast pubs aside.