Capacity V Brighton

[martin_p]

I struggle to see how anybody can actually support this move, essentially creating a 2 tier society. It's nazi Germany all over again.

Whatever next, banning smokers from pubs?

[RVclaret]

They give everyone the chance to get it. If you don't then you won't be able to attend things. Tough.

How about mandatory passports and QR scanning for rapists and pedophiles? Oh it goes against their human rights and invasion of their privacy. But let’s force people to have a vaccine that NO ONE knows the long term side effects of. Pedophiles are safer than the unvaccinated!

I am not anti-vaccine, in fact, I’ve had multiple when travelling to different parts of Asia and I’ve been on the fence with having this one. But firstly, there is no clear evidence of long term side effects and there is too much Government coercion for my liking. I would much prefer my body’s own immune system to fight off an illness (which it did) that has proven to be less dangerous than crossing a road for me. Like I said, it’s setting a very dangerous precedent.

[Murger]

They give everyone the chance to get it. If you don't then you won't be able to attend things. Tough.

I can't wait for you to get an illness that rules you out of getting the vaccine. Then we'll see who starts crying.

[Murger]

Whatever next, banning smokers from pubs?

You're seriously comparing banning smoking with getting a vaccine?

[Devils_Advocate]

You're seriously comparing banning smoking with getting a vaccine?

Says the person who compared vaccine certificates to Nazi Germany

[martin_p]

How about mandatory passports and QR scanning for rapists and pedophiles? Oh it goes against their human rights and invasion of their privacy. But let’s force people to have a vaccine that NO ONE knows the long term side effects of. Pedophiles are safer than the unvaccinated!

I am not anti-vaccine, in fact, I’ve had multiple when travelling to different parts of Asia and I’ve been on the fence with having this one. But firstly, there is no clear evidence of long term side effects and there is too much Government coercion for my liking. I would much prefer my body’s own immune system to fight off an illness (which it did) that has proven to be less dangerous than crossing a road for me. Like I said, it’s setting a very dangerous precedent.

Passports are mandatory if you want to travel outside the UK!

[martin_p]

You're seriously comparing banning smoking with getting a vaccine?

It’s a better comparison than yours! Both for the protection of public health (not just the individual taking the vaccine/smoking).

[Murger]

Passports are mandatory if you want to travel outside the UK!

But passports aren't mandatory to go for a pint.

[RVclaret]

Passports are mandatory if you want to travel outside the UK!

Meant domestic passports like this new COVID passport nonsense.

[Murger]

It’s a better comparison than yours! Both for the protection of public health (not just the individual taking the vaccine/smoking).

If you've been jabbed, what does it matter if the person next to you hasn't? Smoking is a ridiculous comparison.

[RVclaret]

While we are in this process of creating a two-tiered society why not use this mans idea too?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sto ... e-57862881

[JohnMac]

Once those who have had the vaccine become mutants, the ani-Vaxers can make up their own rules whilst gloating.

[martin_p]

If you've been jabbed, what does it matter if the person next to you hasn't? Smoking is a ridiculous comparison.

Because that person is more likely to be infected so more likely to pass it on to me. As I said, vaccination doesn’t make you bullet proof but reduces the risk. If we were both jabbed the risk of transmission is significantly lower than if only one of us is jabbed which in turn is lower than if neither of us were jabbed.

[Murger]

Because that person is more likely to be infected so more likely to pass it on to me. As I said, vaccination doesn’t make you bullet proof but reduces the risk. If we were both jabbed the risk of transmission is significantly lower than if only one of us is jabbed which in turn is lower than if neither of us were jabbed.

Then you could say that for many illnesses. A cold, the flu, sti's are contagious. Do we need a passport for all them too?

Edit: I've been double jabbed so I'm no anti-vaxxer.

[martin_p]

Then you could say that for many illnesses. A cold, the flu, sti's are contagious. Do we need a passport for all them too?

Find me a vaccine for the common cold and I’ll let you know! But that aside colds tend not to kill people and I thought the COVID/flu comparison had already been proved to be the nonsense it is.

[Murger]

Find me a vaccine for the common cold and I’ll let you know! But that aside colds tend not to kill people and I thought the COVID/flu comparison had already been proved to be the nonsense it is.

I never said covid was flu.

[Lancasterclaret]

Again, if you have a genuine medical reason that means you can't have the vaccine, then you have my sympathy

If you don't, and you still won't take it, then you've gone down the anti-vax propaganda route and you'll be on here ranting about 5G masts before the week is out

[Murger]

Does natural immunity not count for anything nowadays?

[martin_p]

I never said covid was flu.

No, but you directly compared it. Maybe when we have a better control over it we can manage COVID like flu, I don’t know. But at the moment we’re a million miles off that so people need to play their part in helping control the virus and getting us back to normal.

[claretcarrot93]

Again, if you have a genuine medical reason that means you can't have the vaccine, then you have my sympathy

If you don't, and you still won't take it, then you've gone down the anti-vax propaganda route and you'll be on here ranting about 5G masts before the week is out

Not quite as simple as that? Surely young healthy people where the risks of the Vaccine are greater than the disease, why would they not let their immune system handle it. Everybody who wants it has had it. People should not be forced to take something they don’t need too just to live a normal life because the government said so

[martin_p]

Does natural immunity not count for anything nowadays?

The jury’s out on how long that lasts so a vaccination will be necessary at some point anyway.

[fatboy47]

While we are in this process of creating a two-tiered society why not use this mans idea too?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sto ... e-57862881

Make it simpler. Ring a handbell as you walk along, and call out "" unclean"" every 30 seconds.

[martin_p]

Not quite as simple as that? Surely young healthy people where the risks of the Vaccine are greater than the disease, why would they not let their immune system handle it. Everybody who wants it has had it. People should not be forced to take something they don’t need too just to live a normal life because the government said so

Yes, but I need other people to take it so I can live a normal life. Why does this seem to be so difficult to grasp? The vaccination programme is about protecting society not the individual.

[NottsClaret]

Those of us who've had the Covid and both vaccines should be upgraded to corporate.

[claretcarrot93]

Yes, but I need other people to take it so I can live a normal life. Why does this seem to be so difficult to grasp? The vaccination programme is about protecting society not the individual.

Sounds like you are happy with others not living a normal life with vaccine passports but you want yours to be normal. You see the hypocrisy?

[Lancasterclaret]

Not quite as simple as that? Surely young healthy people where the risks of the Vaccine are greater than the disease, why would they not let their immune system handle it. Everybody who wants it has had it. People should not be forced to take something they don’t need too just to live a normal life because the government said so

The risks of the vaccine are not worse than the disease though

Thats ant-vax stuff right there

I don't agree with forcing people to take the vaccine or vaccine passports in general btw, but I think there should be a much better campaign to advocate the taking of it for young people.

The more of us who are vaccinated, the less risk there is to everyone else

[2 Bee Holed]

Does natural immunity not count for anything nowadays?

Once and for all. It's not about you. We don't want to catch it from you ,that's all.

We also believe the more people that have the vaccine the less transmissible it becomes, the less chance of new mutations. Less hospital admissions which in turn means the NHS can get back to some sort of normality.

Nobody is forcing anyone to have a vaccine. It's just if you don't have the vaccine you can't do certain things. That's all.

[RVclaret]

Again, if you have a genuine medical reason that means you can't have the vaccine, then you have my sympathy

If you don't, and you still won't take it, then you've gone down the anti-vax propaganda route and you'll be on here ranting about 5G masts before the week is out

It’s morons like you that put me off getting one even more to be honest.

[martin_p]

Sounds like you are happy with others not living a normal life with vaccine passports but you want yours to be normal. You see the hypocrisy?

No I don’t, because I’m doing everything I can to help us get back to normal and if that, in the short term, requires vaccination to do certain things to help keep down numbers then I’ll do it. ‘Normal’ is still many months away, the world will need to defeat COVID before everything is as it was, vaccine passports (if they happen) are just one of the steps to get there.

[ksrclaret]

While we are in this process of creating a two-tiered society why not use this mans idea too?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sto ... e-57862881

I wouldn't really feel safe having these people and the unvaccinated living amongst me, either. I hope we're going to explore the idea of having them moved to a designated area of each town and city at some point. It sounds extreme, but it's for everyone's own good. We don't want to risk catching a virus that could be fatal to us, and these people increase the risk.

[Lancasterclaret]

It’s morons like you that put me off getting one even more to be honest.

Thats comes across really well mate!

Again, I don't want anyone to be forced to take one, and I'm against vaccine passports, but there doesn't appear to be any medical reason not to take it so you are going to have to do a bit better than that for a reason.

[gandhisflipflop]

Thats comes across really well mate!

Again, I don't want anyone to be forced to take one, and I'm against vaccine passports, but there doesn't appear to be any medical reason not to take it so you are going to have to do a bit better than that for a reason.

There doesn't appear to be any medical reason YET. That is the point people are making. The long term health implications are unknown for younger people. There have been 2 people in my workplace alone who have had the vaccine, and are now off work with complications. It does put you off. I have had Covid, and as a young healthy adult i really do not see the benefit of having it yet.

[Lancasterclaret]

There doesn't appear to be any medical reason YET. That is the point people are making. The long term health implications are unknown for younger people. There have been 2 people in my workplace alone who have had the vaccine, and are now off work with complications. It does put you off. I have had Covid, and as a young healthy adult i really do not see the benefit of having it yet.

If you've had COVID, then you shouldn't need the vaccine (I think!)

There should be a way of showing that so you don't need vaccinating, but I'm not sure what that is short of a passport (which I don't think we should have for getting into football matches)

Just a question, both you and RV have had COVID, but would you take a booster jab if it became available/necessary?

[gandhisflipflop]

If you've had COVID, then you shouldn't need the vaccine (I think!)

There should be a way of showing that so you don't need vaccinating, but I'm not sure what that is short of a passport (which I don't think we should have for getting into football matches)

Just a question, both you and RV have had COVID, but would you take a booster jab if it became available/necessary?

Surely they would be able to gain that data through their text messaging service that was issued to me upon my positive test? As for booster jabs, i wouldn't get one as of yet but that is not to say in the future I won't. It would need to be my personal choice to do so however and not in order to gain access to anywhere in the form of a passport.

[martin_p]

Surely they would be able to gain that data through their text messaging service that was issued to me upon my positive test? As for booster jabs, i wouldn't get one as of yet but that is not to say in the future I won't. It would need to be my personal choice to do so however and not in order to gain access to anywhere in the form of a passport.

But there’s lots of conditions attached to being in a football ground, people have the free choice whether to accept them and attend or not accept them and don’t.

[gandhisflipflop]

But there’s lots of conditions attached to being in a football ground, people have the free choice whether to accept them and attend or not accept them and don’t.

But as has being discussed, those conditions (or potential conditions) are unacceptable, unethical and deserved to be challenged. If one of the conditions for attending a football ground is you must be a white hetrosexual, you would be the first to challenge those conditions on the same grounds and you would be right to do so. Just because these conditions fit your world view, doesn't mean that you should take a 'like it or lump it' stance.

[martin_p]

But as has being discussed, those conditions (or potential conditions) are unacceptable, unethical and deserved to be challenged. If one of the conditions for attending a football ground is you must be a white hetrosexual, you would be the first to challenge those conditions on the same grounds and you would be right to do so. Just because these conditions fit your world view, doesn't mean that you should take a 'like it or lump it' stance.

That’s fair enough, but the government have a responsibility to protect public health (a duty you could argue they haven’t done very well with) and it may be that the only alternative is a reduced capacity.

[Lancasterclaret]

But passports aren't mandatory to go for a pint.

You can get age checked though, and you'd need some ID to get served

Its a really tough one this though, and I'm not sure what to do about it, when I want everyone vaccinated and I don't want mandatory vaccine passports or forcing everyone to take it.

[2 Bee Holed]

There doesn't appear to be any medical reason YET. That is the point people are making. The long term health implications are unknown for younger people. There have been 2 people in my workplace alone who have had the vaccine, and are now off work with complications. It does put you off. I have had Covid, and as a young healthy adult i really do not see the benefit of having it yet.

Pray tell, do you know what these complications are that 2 people at work have?
Are P.H.E. aware of this?
Do you know which variant you had?
Does that mean you won't catch a different variant?
Are you bothered if you have covid, but feel perfectly fine and
so don't mind spreading it around?

"Long term health implications are unknown for younger people" Do you think anyone in the World is aware
of the long term health implications of these vaccines for any age group?

[TheFamilyCat]

There doesn't appear to be any medical reason YET. That is the point people are making. The long term health implications are unknown for younger people. There have been 2 people in my workplace alone who have had the vaccine, and are now off work with complications. It does put you off. I have had Covid, and as a young healthy adult i really do not see the benefit of having it yet.

Interesting that the young people who can't wait to get back into nightclubs to binge drink and snort powder of questionable provenance are concerned about the long term health risks of the vaccine.

[gandhisflipflop]

Interesting that the young people who can't wait to get back into nightclubs to binge drink and snort powder of questionable provenance are concerned about the long term health risks of the vaccine.

That is a sweeping generalisation right there. Those that are like that I fully agree with. Not all young people take drugs and booze up in night clubs though. Personally I could think of nothing worse.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Again, if you have a genuine medical reason that means you can't have the vaccine, then you have my sympathy

If you don't, and you still won't take it, then you've gone down the anti-vax propaganda route and you'll be on here ranting about 5G masts before the week is out

Not going down it isnt necesarily anti vax. Its managing personal risk.

I have had around 20 vaccines. But wasnt sure about having this one for numerous reasons. None anti vax.

I have only opted to have mine because I have kids. And while I would expect and hope they would be ok if they caught it. If I caught it, brought it home having not had the jab then passed tp them and made them ill i would never forgive myself. Same with my older family members.

But if I didnt have young kids I wouldnt have rushed for the jab. Personally. Based on my own personal risk and what I accept etc.

[gandhisflipflop]

Pray tell, do you know what these complications are that 2 people at work have?
Are P.H.E. aware of this?
Do you know which variant you had?
Does that mean you won't catch a different variant?
Are you bothered if you have covid, but feel perfectly fine and
so don't mind spreading it around?

"Long term health implications are unknown for younger people" Do you think anyone in the World is aware
of the long term health implications of these vaccines for any age group?

You can still catch the virus and spread it around even when fully vaccinated. So your point doesn't really stand up.

[quoonbeatz]

Interesting that the young people who can't wait to get back to football matches to binge drink and snort powder of questionable provenance are concerned about the long term health risks of the vaccine.

*fixed*

[2 Bee Holed]

You can still catch the virus and spread it around even when fully vaccinated. So your point doesn't really stand up.

Around 60% less likely to spread it around, if double vaccinated, but yes, you can still spread it
but a lot less likely to.
Anyhow It wasn't a point, I was asking you a question.
In fact, I asked you several questions. None of which you have answered.

[TheFamilyCat]

That is a sweeping generalisation right there. Those that are like that I fully agree with. Not all young people take drugs and booze up in night clubs though. Personally I could think of nothing worse.

Not at all. I haven't said it is all young people.

[RVclaret]

Interesting that the young people who can't wait to get back into nightclubs to binge drink and snort powder of questionable provenance are concerned about the long term health risks of the vaccine.

BINGO! There we have it, let’s blame young people who have had their lives taken away from them for the past 18 months to protect those around them for now doing what the Government has now said they can do! Hilarious!

[TheFamilyCat]

BINGO! There we have it, let’s blame young people who have had their lives taken away from them for the past 18 months to protect those around them for now doing what the Government has now said they can do! Hilarious!

Who am I blaming for what?

[RVclaret]

Generalising and attacking 'young people' only.

[martin_p]

Not going down it isnt necesarily anti vax. Its managing personal risk.

I have had around 20 vaccines. But wasnt sure about having this one for numerous reasons. None anti vax.

I have only opted to have mine because I have kids. And while I would expect and hope they would be ok if they caught it. If I caught it, brought it home having not had the jab then passed tp them and made them ill i would never forgive myself. Same with my older family members.

But if I didnt have young kids I wouldnt have rushed for the jab. Personally. Based on my own personal risk and what I accept etc.

Again (and I’ll keep banging on about this until people get it) being vaccinated isn’t just about personal risk, it’s about everyone’s risk. If you aren’t vaccinated you’re more likely to get it and more likely to pass it on. Me being vaccinated mitigates the risk of me getting it and and passing it on to a good extent but that risk would be reduced even more (for everyone) if all those I came into contact with were also vaccinated.