Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by tiger76 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:17 pm

Major improvements planned at the King Power, this illustrates exactly what Burnley are up against in trying to sustain ourselves at this level.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57994358

TsarBomba
Posts: 1619
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:51 pm
Been Liked: 1138 times
Has Liked: 288 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by TsarBomba » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:21 pm

Not really.

We swim in a completely different sea to Leicester.

We just need to ensure we’re better than 3 other teams every season.

ŽižkovClaret
Posts: 6959
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:50 pm
Been Liked: 2143 times
Has Liked: 3061 times
Location: Praha
Contact:

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:31 pm

Hope the builders get paid in advance
These 11 users liked this post: Bosscat boatshed bill HandforthClaret superdimitri longhair longsidepies basil6345789 Juan Tanamera bfcjg AfloatinClaret Buxtonclaret

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Spijed » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:38 pm

ŽižkovClaret wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:31 pm
Hope the builders get paid in advance
And I doubt those involved had any guilt whatsoever towards those local companies who lost out.

Just wrong on every level.

Aclaret
Posts: 4113
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:16 pm
Been Liked: 1299 times
Has Liked: 1391 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Aclaret » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:45 pm

Oh dear......40, 000 happy clappers !

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by tiger76 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:56 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:21 pm
Not really.

We swim in a completely different sea to Leicester.

We just need to ensure we’re better than 3 other teams every season.
We are now I agree, but it wasn't that long ago that we were competing on parity with them, now yes they are on a different level financially and even in terms of their playing squad they're miles ahead of us alas.

This is what can happen when you're lucky enough to attract a wealthy owner, which unfortunately at this moment in time BFC isn't in a position to do.

NewClaret
Posts: 13222
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3037 times
Has Liked: 3759 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by NewClaret » Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:53 pm

Good on them for investing in the training ground (£100m - and bloody spectacular) and ground though. We need that investment in infrastructure to ensure the Premier League as the best league in the world.

Spike
Posts: 2682
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:07 pm
Been Liked: 594 times
Has Liked: 1225 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Spike » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:00 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:38 pm
And I doubt those involved had any guilt whatsoever towards those local companies who lost out.

Just wrong on every level.
Totally immoral that clubs who default and don’t pay their creditors don’t do the decent thing and pay them back from their multi millions in future years
Premier League clubs and probably other clubs should have stars above their badge
Black star for every administration

Makes me laugh when the press quote Leicester and Southampton as well run clubs

Chester Perry
Posts: 19167
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3115 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:02 pm

The expansion plans have been in discussion for some time now It is telling that the development also includes entertainment facilities - whatever that may be - they have to find revenue from many sources - though it sounds like a watered down version of what is going on at the Etihad

NewClaret
Posts: 13222
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3037 times
Has Liked: 3759 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by NewClaret » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:08 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:02 pm
The expansion plans have been in discussion for some time now It is telling that the development also includes entertainment facilities - whatever that may be - they have to find revenue from many sources - though it sounds like a watered down version of what is going on at the Etihad
What’s going on at the Etihad? The Coop arena?

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14562
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:08 pm
What’s going on at the Etihad? The Coop arena?
The Etihad has that viewing area for the tunnel, fancy restaurant etc.
The prices are eye watering.

They've been mulling over this idea at Leicester for a while

Chester Perry
Posts: 19167
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3115 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:08 pm
What’s going on at the Etihad? The Coop arena?
yep and I would not be surprised if more developments followed in that area/campus

boatshed bill
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:58 pm

Spike wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:00 pm
Totally immoral that clubs who default and don’t pay their creditors don’t do the decent thing and pay them back from their multi millions in future years
Premier League clubs and probably other clubs should have stars above their badge
Black star for every administration

Makes me laugh when the press quote Leicester and Southampton as well run clubs
Absolutely spot on.
Didn't their old board even default on the St. John's Ambulance? Nice

JohnMac
Posts: 7179
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:11 pm
Been Liked: 2367 times
Has Liked: 3781 times
Location: Padiham

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by JohnMac » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:51 pm

Leicester have had the better squad for many years with plenty great young players too.

superdimitri
Posts: 4936
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:04 pm
Been Liked: 1005 times
Has Liked: 725 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by superdimitri » Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:30 am

They can make the packet bigger, but it doesn't mean they'll be more crisps. Like a crisp packet, it will be all air.
These 2 users liked this post: tim_noone AfloatinClaret

PadihamThickNeck
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:47 pm
Been Liked: 110 times
Has Liked: 77 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by PadihamThickNeck » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:49 am

Population of Burnley - 87k
Population of Leicester - 357k

We are doing well to get 20k. I don't think we could ever fill 30k bit anytime soon anyway.
This user liked this post: Gordaleman

box_of_frogs
Posts: 4955
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:47 am
Been Liked: 1087 times
Has Liked: 996 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by box_of_frogs » Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:32 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:58 pm
Absolutely spot on.
Didn't their old board even default on the St. John's Ambulance? Nice
Out of interest, when was this? I’ve no idea!

dibraidio
Posts: 1523
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:34 pm
Been Liked: 505 times
Has Liked: 143 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by dibraidio » Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:22 am

Another thing that Leicester do that we don't is trade their players. Mahrez, Kante, Chillwell, Drinkwater. They sell for big money when it's on the table something that we don't do because "we don't need the money". If we'd kept the same wages as 2017 and sold Dwight, Pope, Tarkowski etc when big money was on the table Dyche would have had over 200m more to spend, admittedly with three players to replace.

If Leicester finish 5th this season they'll be disappointed, if we finish 15th we'll be quite happy. We're nowhere near the same level.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Spijed » Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:47 am

box_of_frogs wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:32 am
Out of interest, when was this? I’ve no idea!
Those were the days when clubs could literally wipe out any debt without any penalty, yet keep all their players.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ory.sport5

Ipswich did the same.

Quite simply, there should have been only one penalty - both clubs should be have been made to sell players, and if that didn't meet all the shortfalls then they should have been liquidated and kicked out of football.

There are absolutely no mitigating circumstances in those situations, none whatsoever.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14562
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:00 am

dibraidio wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:22 am
Another thing that Leicester do that we don't is trade their players. Mahrez, Kante, Chillwell, Drinkwater. They sell for big money when it's on the table something that we don't do because "we don't need the money". If we'd kept the same wages as 2017 and sold Dwight, Pope, Tarkowski etc when big money was on the table Dyche would have had over 200m more to spend, admittedly with three players to replace.

If Leicester finish 5th this season they'll be disappointed, if we finish 15th we'll be quite happy. We're nowhere near the same level.
In all fairness, Leicester appeared to have a clear plan of when to replace those players so the club didn't slide backwards and has actually continued to push forwards to become a top 6 regular instead of a one off title win and then falling away like Rovers did.

TsarBomba
Posts: 1619
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:51 pm
Been Liked: 1138 times
Has Liked: 288 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by TsarBomba » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:05 am

With the backing of their owner, Leicester have been able to speculate heavily, and can afford expensive mistakes which comes with the territory of being a genuine top 6-8 club.

We can’t afford anything like a Slimani or a Ghezzal.

On a separate note, Man United reportedly looked at 804 right backs before settling for Wan Bissaka. Now that really does show what we’re up against.

The idea that we can uncover the next Mahrez or Kante is just fanciful.

We’re absolutely doing the right thing with our Academy and I’m really hopeful that within the next 5 years it will begin to bear fruit. We’ve just got to be patient until the academy kicks in, and hopefully stay at the top table for as long as possible.

tim_noone
Posts: 17108
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:12 pm
Been Liked: 4384 times
Has Liked: 15117 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by tim_noone » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:40 am

superdimitri wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:30 am
They can make the packet bigger, but it doesn't mean they'll be more crisps. Like a crisp packet, it will be all air.
:D

dibraidio
Posts: 1523
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:34 pm
Been Liked: 505 times
Has Liked: 143 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by dibraidio » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:40 am

TsarBomba wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:05 am
With the backing of their owner, Leicester have been able to speculate heavily, and can afford expensive mistakes which comes with the territory of being a genuine top 6-8 club.

We can’t afford anything like a Slimani or a Ghezzal.

On a separate note, Man United reportedly looked at 804 right backs before settling for Wan Bissaka. Now that really does show what we’re up against.

The idea that we can uncover the next Mahrez or Kante is just fanciful.

We’re absolutely doing the right thing with our Academy and I’m really hopeful that within the next 5 years it will begin to bear fruit. We’ve just got to be patient until the academy kicks in, and hopefully stay at the top table for as long as possible.
Clearly their recruitment has been far better than our for years. I'm not suggesting that we can compete with that.

Leicester may have been able to speculate but they've also sold players for BIG money when the opportunity has arisen. Something Sean Dyche doesn't like to do. The only big money sales we've had were Gray and Keane and they funded our only spending spree in the Premier League. Unfortunately that money went on the likes of Brady and Hendrick who were allowed to leave for nothing.

My point was that Leicester have made big profits on player trading, something that we don't. Sean prefers stability and would rather keep players that he can trust than cash in and find new ones. The problem with that is that he has tried to keep them happy by paying them more and our wage bill has gone up from 63m to 93m with essentially the same playing staff and no budget left for new signings. If the wage budget had remained the same as 2017 he'd have had 30m a year extra to spend on players and we may well have actually landed our targets in the last 6 windows and be in a more comfortable position right now. You can see a huge difference though, our top players are linked to Villa, Everton and West Ham. Leicester's are sold to Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19167
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3115 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:33 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:58 pm
Absolutely spot on.
Didn't their old board even default on the St. John's Ambulance? Nice
almost every case of Administration left St John's Ambulance short - it is as people say a disgrace

AfloatinClaret
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 7:16 pm
Been Liked: 559 times
Has Liked: 1392 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by AfloatinClaret » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:08 pm

ŽižkovClaret wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:31 pm
Hope the builders get paid in advance
Back when I was in the business I worked for a company when we had several opportunities to build new/major extension projects for football clubs, indeed Leicester's might well have been one of them; whilst we did submit prices for a couple, though even those were not too keen, we declined all the rest. The constraints/restrictions were usually too much aggravation, the delay penalties invariably horrendous and often to be unreasonably interpreted and without there being a known source of finance to underwrite the project such as a supermarket wanting the existing stadium site for redevelopment, the non-payment risk just too high.
In construction as in most other aspects of life, the football world seems to think that it's a special case and not subject to the rules and contract conditions that apply to mere mortals.

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by tiger76 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:34 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:40 am
Clearly their recruitment has been far better than our for years. I'm not suggesting that we can compete with that.

Leicester may have been able to speculate but they've also sold players for BIG money when the opportunity has arisen. Something Sean Dyche doesn't like to do. The only big money sales we've had were Gray and Keane and they funded our only spending spree in the Premier League. Unfortunately that money went on the likes of Brady and Hendrick who were allowed to leave for nothing.

My point was that Leicester have made big profits on player trading, something that we don't. Sean prefers stability and would rather keep players that he can trust than cash in and find new ones. The problem with that is that he has tried to keep them happy by paying them more and our wage bill has gone up from 63m to 93m with essentially the same playing staff and no budget left for new signings. If the wage budget had remained the same as 2017 he'd have had 30m a year extra to spend on players and we may well have actually landed our targets in the last 6 windows and be in a more comfortable position right now. You can see a huge difference though, our top players are linked to Villa, Everton and West Ham. Leicester's are sold to Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea.
I don't disagree with your valid points, however I doubt our wage bill is as high as 93m, if it is then we're not getting value for money out of our squad.

The highest figure I can recall seeing our salaries added up to 81m, but that was before we cleared the decks of several high earners, Brady, Hart, Hendrick & Lennon being the most notable, so if our wage bill is much over 70m in the next set of accounts I'll be surprised.

The major difference between us and Leicester is they have a thriving academy, which has produced several gems in recent years which they've integrated into their 1st team squad, and some have been sold on for decent money, we aren't at that level yet, but hopefully in the coming years we'll start reaping the fruits of Barnfield, already the early signs are more encouraging in this respect with the likes of Benson perhaps and Dunne going to Championship clubs for reasonable fees.

It's a tricky balance to strike, we also face losing Tarks on a free in under a year, as happened with Brady & Hendrick who we spent big money on, but the longer we remain at the PL table the more likely this scenario is too rear it's ugly head every season, fortunately apart from JT, the rest of our coveted stars are tied down on lengthy contracts, so if clubs want them they'll need to stump the readies.

Plus Leicester have a strong European scouting network which allows them to identify players that they can then pick up for relative peanuts, and then sell on for big money a year or two down the line, again this is something which ALK are trying to address, but it won't happen overnight so we'll need to be patient.

Gordaleman
Posts: 3981
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:04 pm
Been Liked: 853 times
Has Liked: 604 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Gordaleman » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:41 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:22 am
Another thing that Leicester do that we don't is trade their players. Mahrez, Kante, Chillwell, Drinkwater. They sell for big money when it's on the table something that we don't do because "we don't need the money". If we'd kept the same wages as 2017 and sold Dwight, Pope, Tarkowski etc when big money was on the table Dyche would have had over 200m more to spend, admittedly with three players to replace.

If Leicester finish 5th this season they'll be disappointed, if we finish 15th we'll be quite happy. We're nowhere near the same level.
As padihamthickneck wrote.

"Population of Burnley - 87k
Population of Leicester - 357k

We are doing well to get 20k. I don't think we could ever fill 30k bit anytime soon anyway."

Try living in the real world.

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:08 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:40 am
Clearly their recruitment has been far better than our for years. I'm not suggesting that we can compete with that.

Leicester may have been able to speculate but they've also sold players for BIG money when the opportunity has arisen. Something Sean Dyche doesn't like to do. The only big money sales we've had were Gray and Keane and they funded our only spending spree in the Premier League. Unfortunately that money went on the likes of Brady and Hendrick who were allowed to leave for nothing.

My point was that Leicester have made big profits on player trading, something that we don't. Sean prefers stability and would rather keep players that he can trust than cash in and find new ones. The problem with that is that he has tried to keep them happy by paying them more and our wage bill has gone up from 63m to 93m with essentially the same playing staff and no budget left for new signings. If the wage budget had remained the same as 2017 he'd have had 30m a year extra to spend on players and we may well have actually landed our targets in the last 6 windows and be in a more comfortable position right now. You can see a huge difference though, our top players are linked to Villa, Everton and West Ham. Leicester's are sold to Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea.
tiger76 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:34 pm


I don't disagree with your valid points, however I doubt our wage bill is as high as 93m, if it is then we're not getting value for money out of our squad.

The highest figure I can recall seeing our salaries added up to 81m, but that was before we cleared the decks of several high earners, Brady, Hart, Hendrick & Lennon being the most notable, so if our wage bill is much over 70m in the next set of accounts I'll be surprised.

The major difference between us and Leicester is they have a thriving academy, which has produced several gems in recent years which they've integrated into their 1st team squad, and some have been sold on for decent money, we aren't at that level yet, but hopefully in the coming years we'll start reaping the fruits of Barnfield, already the early signs are more encouraging in this respect with the likes of Benson perhaps and Dunne going to Championship clubs for reasonable fees.

It's a tricky balance to strike, we also face losing Tarks on a free in under a year, as happened with Brady & Hendrick who we spent big money on, but the longer we remain at the PL table the more likely this scenario is too rear it's ugly head every season, fortunately apart from JT, the rest of our coveted stars are tied down on lengthy contracts, so if clubs want them they'll need to stump the readies.

Plus Leicester have a strong European scouting network which allows them to identify players that they can then pick up for relative peanuts, and then sell on for big money a year or two down the line, again this is something which ALK are trying to address, but it won't happen overnight so we'll need to be patient.
Hi dibradio and tiger76, just commenting on the players' wages - which, (without checking), was, I recall, recorded as £93m on an adjusted 12 months in the accounts to 31st July 2020. Of course, that figure includes all the employees of the club, including Sean Dyche and the coaching staff, plus all the "back office" teams that keep the club running. You suggest, dibradio, that if the wages had been kept at £63m, the figure from 2017, 3 years earlier, we'd have more money to spend on signing/buying new players, and maybe only James Tarkowski, Dwight McNeil and Nick Pope would have been sold - because they would have wanted more money and got more money at other clubs. But, what about the other players who've extended their contracts since 2017, don't you think they might have chosen to go elsewhere if BFC wasn't paying them what they are worth as Premier League footballers? Similarly, do you think we'd have been able to sign the players that we have signed (I know it's not a vast number) if we hadn't offered them 2018/19/20 wages, relative to their skills and experiences and ambitions?

Yes, it's a challenge, Premier League wages keep on rising and Burnley FC is always playing "catch up" on a limited budget. That's how it is and the club has managed to do that successfully - defined as retaining Premier League status - 5 seasons and are now going into our 6th successive season in the Premier League.

UTC

Chester Perry
Posts: 19167
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3115 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:27 pm

Paul it was £94m for 12 months according to the club - though it appears circa £15m of that was on bonuses and Drinkwater
This user liked this post: Paul Waine

boatshed bill
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:21 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:33 pm
almost every case of Administration left St John's Ambulance short - it is as people say a disgrace
On checking I believe it was The East Midlands Ambulance Service, not sure if that is St. John's.
It doesn't make non-payment any less disgraceful whichever service.
There have been calls for the new regime to pay it back (approximately one decent player's wage for a week!) now that they are mega-wealthy., though I don't suppose they will

bfcjg
Posts: 13152
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 5002 times
Has Liked: 6715 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by bfcjg » Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:51 pm

If only we had a multi billionaire owner.

dibraidio
Posts: 1523
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:34 pm
Been Liked: 505 times
Has Liked: 143 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by dibraidio » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:19 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:08 pm
Hi dibradio and tiger76, just commenting on the players' wages - which, (without checking), was, I recall, recorded as £93m on an adjusted 12 months in the accounts to 31st July 2020. Of course, that figure includes all the employees of the club, including Sean Dyche and the coaching staff, plus all the "back office" teams that keep the club running. You suggest, dibradio, that if the wages had been kept at £63m, the figure from 2017, 3 years earlier, we'd have more money to spend on signing/buying new players, and maybe only James Tarkowski, Dwight McNeil and Nick Pope would have been sold - because they would have wanted more money and got more money at other clubs. But, what about the other players who've extended their contracts since 2017, don't you think they might have chosen to go elsewhere if BFC wasn't paying them what they are worth as Premier League footballers? Similarly, do you think we'd have been able to sign the players that we have signed (I know it's not a vast number) if we hadn't offered them 2018/19/20 wages, relative to their skills and experiences and ambitions?

Yes, it's a challenge, Premier League wages keep on rising and Burnley FC is always playing "catch up" on a limited budget. That's how it is and the club has managed to do that successfully - defined as retaining Premier League status - 5 seasons and are now going into our 6th successive season in the Premier League.

UTC
Paul, the honest answer is we'll never know. All I'm saying is that since we got into Europe we've stagnated and our wage bill has increased by almost 50%. Yes, it's allowed us to find some stability but certainly hasn't allowed us to take things to another level. What it has done is to leave only a tiny budget for new additions. The sale of Gibson has no doubt funded the signing of Collins but I would be extremely surprised if we break our transfer record again because the money just isn't there.

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:07 am

dibraidio wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:19 pm
Paul, the honest answer is we'll never know. All I'm saying is that since we got into Europe we've stagnated and our wage bill has increased by almost 50%. Yes, it's allowed us to find some stability but certainly hasn't allowed us to take things to another level. What it has done is to leave only a tiny budget for new additions. The sale of Gibson has no doubt funded the signing of Collins but I would be extremely surprised if we break our transfer record again because the money just isn't there.
Dibradio, my honest answer is that we do know. We know that BFC is about to start the 6th consecutive season in the Premier League. We know the players who are in the squad today. We know that many of these players have renewed and extended their contracts since they first signed for the club. We know the players that have been in the squad in previous seasons. We know which players have moved on at the end of their contracts. We know which ones we've transferred out to other clubs during their contracts. What we don't know about any of these players, those who have been brought in, those that have signed extended contracts, those that have left, are the individual details of each of those players costs in fees and in wages. However, we can reliably be certain that transfer fees have risen "in the market" and that footballers wages, on average, have risen.

As for BFC's finances. I think the popular idea that "the money just isn't there" for BFC to invest in the playing squad is not correct. Alan Pace and his ALK colleagues are smart people. They will know that buying 84% of BFC for the reported £170 million is a foolish thing for them to do if they haven't got the finances to grow and develop the club and move things forward. I'm sure the money is there to add to the squad - so long as the right players are there for the money to be spent on.

UTC

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:20 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:07 am
Alan Pace and his ALK colleagues are smart people. They will know that buying 84% of BFC for the reported £170 million is a foolish thing for them to do if they haven't got the finances to grow and develop the club and move things forward.
This depends on how much of their own money is at risk and this is something we don't know for sure at the moment.

dibraidio
Posts: 1523
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:34 pm
Been Liked: 505 times
Has Liked: 143 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by dibraidio » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:43 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:07 am
Dibradio, my honest answer is that we do know. We know that BFC is about to start the 6th consecutive season in the Premier League. We know the players who are in the squad today. We know that many of these players have renewed and extended their contracts since they first signed for the club. We know the players that have been in the squad in previous seasons. We know which players have moved on at the end of their contracts. We know which ones we've transferred out to other clubs during their contracts. What we don't know about any of these players, those who have been brought in, those that have signed extended contracts, those that have left, are the individual details of each of those players costs in fees and in wages. However, we can reliably be certain that transfer fees have risen "in the market" and that footballers wages, on average, have risen.

As for BFC's finances. I think the popular idea that "the money just isn't there" for BFC to invest in the playing squad is not correct. Alan Pace and his ALK colleagues are smart people. They will know that buying 84% of BFC for the reported £170 million is a foolish thing for them to do if they haven't got the finances to grow and develop the club and move things forward. I'm sure the money is there to add to the squad - so long as the right players are there for the money to be spent on.

UTC
Paul you asked two questions, my answer was that we'll never know if the players or targets would have accepted lower wages. Sean Dyche has achieved his primary target by having players he can rely on to help us survive. I'm convinced that Sean will find a couple of players to add to the squad to keep us up once again. I'd expect that ALK believed that they could increase revenue streams for the club by moving from local to global markets for commercial revenues. It appears that they've already done that to an extent with a good shirt sponsorship deal but there's still room for much more when you look how far we are behind a lot of other clubs. Checketts and Page were both involved with Real Salt Lake and I'm sure that they will have lots of ideas from their time there. One of the big areas of investment there was in the academy which I'm sure they're determined to use exploit and develop further. They've already said that their plans are long term and that they won't be splashing the cash. The 2020 books show that there was virtually no profit. If they need to keep balancing the books and not accrue further debt I'd expect that the spending this window will be relatively limited. As you say, if the right players are there for the right money I'm sure they'll be prepared to invest but I can't see them signing anyone for 20m.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19167
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3115 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:43 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:07 am
As for BFC's finances. I think the popular idea that "the money just isn't there" for BFC to invest in the playing squad is not correct. Alan Pace and his ALK colleagues are smart people. They will know that buying 84% of BFC for the reported £170 million is a foolish thing for them to do if they haven't got the finances to grow and develop the club and move things forward. I'm sure the money is there to add to the squad - so long as the right players are there for the money to be spent on.

UTC
The evidence at both St Louis Blues (NHL) and Real Salt Lake (MLS) under the ownership/control of Dave Checketts goes some way to disprove that theory Paul - the NHL took back the blues franchise because he didn't have the cash to meet his responsibilities and the partner he brought on board at Real Salt Lake forced him out because he didn't have the cash to contribute to the franchises development, the entry price for both was very substantially less than for our club (though it was not done with borrowing/leverage). That is not to say his tenure didn't significantly improve the situation at the blues or provide a strong foundation in Salt Lake.

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:53 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:43 pm
The evidence at both St Louis Blues (NHL) and Real Salt Lake (MLS) under the ownership/control of Dave Checketts goes some way to disprove that theory Paul - the NHL took back the blues franchise because he didn't have the cash to meet his responsibilities and the partner he brought on board at Real Salt Lake forced him out because he didn't have the cash to contribute to the franchises development, the entry price for both was very substantially less than for our club (though it was not done with borrowing/leverage). That is not to say his tenure didn't significantly improve the situation at the blues or provide a strong foundation in Salt Lake.
Hi CP, aren't you making some very big assumptions there? Alan Pace is the club's chairman and the leader of ALK Capital. Alan Pace has his own experience in finance, both before and after his involvement with Real Salt Lake. Yes, Dave Checketts has experienced financial distress in the two sports franchisees you mention. As I understand it, Dave Checketts was subject to very different obligations in both the hockey and the soccer franchisees and it's those obligations where things came unstuck for him. Dave Checketts isn't in that franchise type of role with respect to BFC and the club isn't a franchise and doesn't have those types of financial obligations to other parties.

I continue to hold the view that we've not got the "full facts" on ALK's financial arrangements for their acquisition and ownership of BFC. I don't believe that ALK could borrow £60 million from MSD simply to fund part of the purchase of Mike Garlick's and the other previous directors' shares. I don't believe that MSD would lend money simply on that basis and on the security of BFC assets. Yes, the financial charges are in place, as we expect they should be. (Similar financial charges were in place when the club had got bank borrowings and lines of credit). But, the transfer values of the club's playing staff are too uncertain and uncontrollable to form the basis of security for MSD's loan. (What happens to the security, for example, when a player runs down his contract and leaves on a free? Similarly, what happens to the security when a star player picks up a career threatening injury, or less dramatically an injury that results in them missing most of a season)?

I'm confident that your assertion is incorrect, that Dave Checkett's experiences at St Louis Blues and at Real Salt Lake is evidence that ALK Capital don't have the finances to grow and develop the club and move things forward.

foxedup
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:32 pm
Been Liked: 12 times
Has Liked: 2 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by foxedup » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:09 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:47 am
Those were the days when clubs could literally wipe out any debt without any penalty, yet keep all their players.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ory.sport5

Ipswich did the same.

Quite simply, there should have been only one penalty - both clubs should be have been made to sell players, and if that didn't meet all the shortfalls then they should have been liquidated and kicked out of football.

There are absolutely no mitigating circumstances in those situations, none whatsoever.
We did not get to "keep all of our players", we sold £15m worth of players and accepted any bid that came in. A £6m bid for Izzet was accepted and he turned down a move.

Once the club went into administration the administrator was in charge of all decisions. It was their choice to keep the team together (within reason) and get promotion, as that meant creditors being given more money back.

Before that even happened, we also agreed with all creditors to longer terms to avoid administration, this was agreed by ALL except for Eric Hall who petitioned for the winding up order in the courts (as per your link). Why would he sacrifice money who was owed to do that... something to do with the club sacking his client for punching another playing in the face and breaking his jaw perhaps.

Once the winding-up order happens, the club is left with no choice. Nobody WANTED to go into administration, the people who owned the club lost control and were never seen again. As for mitigating circumstances, are we forgetting the millions ITV Digital didn't pay clubs that was owned, which is what helped put Ipswich under also.

We didn't get a free ground out of it either, contrary to most of the nonsense I often see posted. We've paid more for the ground than we ever would have had to if we didn't go into administration. Ownership reverted to the bank who charged an arm and a leg in interest, from that point until just recently when the new owners purchased the ground back from them. That debt saw the club slip down to its lowest ever league position, and only incredible management from Nigel Pearson saved the club.

I've seen people saying oh well they should pay back the money now. Presumably, they've never run a company because that's not how it works and there are no mechanisms in place to even do that. But the current owners are embraced by all locally because they give back to the community, one donation alone totalling £2m to help build the new children's hospital. https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news ... me-3450111

Of course, the people who ran the club at the time need to shoulder a large chunk of the blame, but they are individuals, they are not Leicester City, the current owners or the fans. And, they did what they could to avoid it, despite the nonsense often spouted by people who seem to think it was just a scam to save money.

boatshed bill
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:14 pm

foxedup wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:09 pm
We did not get to "keep all of our players", we sold £15m worth of players and accepted any bid that came in. A £6m bid for Izzet was accepted and he turned down a move.

Once the club went into administration the administrator was in charge of all decisions. It was their choice to keep the team together (within reason) and get promotion, as that meant creditors being given more money back.

Before that even happened, we also agreed with all creditors to longer terms to avoid administration, this was agreed by ALL except for Eric Hall who petitioned for the winding up order in the courts (as per your link). Why would he sacrifice money who was owed to do that... something to do with the club sacking his client for punching another playing in the face and breaking his jaw perhaps.

Once the winding-up order happens, the club is left with no choice. Nobody WANTED to go into administration, the people who owned the club lost control and were never seen again. As for mitigating circumstances, are we forgetting the millions ITV Digital didn't pay clubs that was owned, which is what helped put Ipswich under also.

We didn't get a free ground out of it either, contrary to most of the nonsense I often see posted. We've paid more for the ground than we ever would have had to if we didn't go into administration. Ownership reverted to the bank who charged an arm and a leg in interest, from that point until just recently when the new owners purchased the ground back from them. That debt saw the club slip down to its lowest ever league position, and only incredible management from Nigel Pearson saved the club.

I've seen people saying oh well they should pay back the money now. Presumably, they've never run a company because that's not how it works and there are no mechanisms in place to even do that. But the current owners are embraced by all locally because they give back to the community, one donation alone totalling £2m to help build the new children's hospital. https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news ... me-3450111

Of course, the people who ran the club at the time need to shoulder a large chunk of the blame, but they are individuals, they are not Leicester City, the current owners or the fans. And, they did what they could to avoid it, despite the nonsense often spouted by people who seem to think it was just a scam to save money.
Bravo.

So what ambulance service do you use now?

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:16 pm

Good most mate but you're wasting your breath talking facts on here,especially when it comes to Spijed logic

foxedup
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:32 pm
Been Liked: 12 times
Has Liked: 2 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by foxedup » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:19 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:21 pm
On checking I believe it was The East Midlands Ambulance Service, not sure if that is St. John's.
It doesn't make non-payment any less disgraceful whichever service.
There have been calls for the new regime to pay it back (approximately one decent player's wage for a week!) now that they are mega-wealthy., though I don't suppose they will
They've personally donated £4m to local charities and universities, including helping fund a renovation of Leicester Royal Infirmary’s Children’s Outpatient Ward and life-saving equipment for the Children’s Intensive Care Unit with a £2m donation. On top of raising a further £6m for local charities through the late owner's foundation.

boatshed bill
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:23 pm

foxedup wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:19 pm
They've personally donated £4m to local charities and universities, including helping fund a renovation of Leicester Royal Infirmary’s Children’s Outpatient Ward and life-saving equipment for the Children’s Intensive Care Unit with a £2m donation. On top of raising a further £6m for local charities through the late owner's foundation.
What are you looking for, a medal?
Did they pay the for ambulances?

foxedup
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:32 pm
Been Liked: 12 times
Has Liked: 2 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by foxedup » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:23 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:14 pm
Bravo.

So what ambulance service do you use now?
Whichever one we want I'd imagine.

foxedup
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:32 pm
Been Liked: 12 times
Has Liked: 2 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by foxedup » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:24 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:23 pm
What are you looking for, a medal?
Did they pay the for ambulances?
A medal? No. How about facts?

Why don't you go through all of the charities accounts and see if they haven't donated to them.

boatshed bill
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:27 pm

foxedup wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:24 pm
A medal? No. How about facts?

Why don't you go through all of the charities accounts and see if they haven't donated to them.
Because they are all irrelevant to the original point.
Debts were not paid.
I find that unacceptable, you don't have to.

foxedup
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:32 pm
Been Liked: 12 times
Has Liked: 2 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by foxedup » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:33 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:27 pm
Because they are all irrelevant to the original point.
Debts were not paid.
I find that unacceptable, you don't have to.
So what you are saying is you don't actually have a clue what the club has paid back and to whom through their charitable donations.

There is no mechanism for paying debts of another company, companies don't work that way. You can make charitable donations, for which you'd need to be a charity, of which we've paid out about £10m in about 4 years. Which of course you've not bothered looking into.

boatshed bill
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Leicester City plan to increase stadium capacity to 40,000

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:38 pm

foxedup wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:33 pm
So what you are saying is you don't actually have a clue what the club has paid back and to whom through their charitable donations.

There is no mechanism for paying debts of another company, companies don't work that way. You can make charitable donations, for which you'd need to be a charity, of which we've paid out about £10m in about 4 years. Which of course you've not bothered looking into.
Bored now, go and justify it to someone else.
One question, did you pay the East Midlands Ambulance Service or not?

Post Reply