• Pope's kicking

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:43 pm**

Is it just me, or does anybody else think that Pope's awful kick led to Arsenal's goal yesterday. He's a good keeper but Billy Mercer has got to work with Pope on his kicking.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:46 pm**

LongSider75 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:43 pm
Is it just me, or does anybody else think that Pope's awful kick led to Arsenal's goal yesterday. He's a good keeper but Billy Mercer has got to work with Pope on his kicking.

It went out of play for a throw in - the fact that they took it, our two central defenders almost run into each other trying to take one man, Westwood gave away a needless free kick and the wall didn't jump. I think you would be hard pushed to apportion much blame for the goal on his kick.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:47 pm**

That was a poor kick
But the blame for the goal lies with a very poor decision by Westwood to purposely commit a foul in that position when there were still 2 Burnley players between the attacker and our goal
Oh and the left 3 of the wall not jumping for a ball that must have gone over their heads by 6 inches or so

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:56 pm**

BleedingClaret wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:47 pm
That was a poor kick
But the blame for the goal lies with a very poor decision by Westwood to purposely commit a foul in that position when there were still 2 Burnley players between the attacker and our goal
Oh and the left 3 of the wall not jumping for a ball that must have gone over their heads by 6 inches or so

Not sure about “needless”. There was a yawning gap in the centre of our defence with nobody seeming in any rush to close Saka down. He was a couple of strides from a free shot at goal.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:00 pm**

How can it be Pope’s fault? Ok, it was a poor kick out to the halfway line, but they had to get the ball back into play and then get it forward to the edge of our box: now that was the easy bit for them they ran at us and as usual our two central midfielders were left trailing behind theirs, leading to Westwood, sorry Westy, needlessly tripping up their man from behind, which was a stupid thing to do.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:04 pm**

The defence parted like the Red Sea, leaving Saka a run through on goal. A player with a right foot would have easily taken the shot on.

Westwood had no choice but to take him down.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:04 pm**

His kicking generally is bloody awful, it doesn’t appear to be getting any better. Just by chance after one of his awful kicks yesterday I glanced at Dyche who shall we say muttered a few words as he turned away.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:06 pm**

Disagree totally darthlaw, he did not need to trip him at all. We had central defenders back covering.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:07 pm**

Totally Westwood's fault.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:07 pm**

Hard to blame Pope for that. While he gets stick for his feet , his actual kicking is generally fine ( all keepers make kicking errors ) His left foot has improved considerably over last 2 seasons as well . It’s his touch which is his main problem ,though he purposefully takes a heavy touch to set up his kicks . His left foot rescued him yesterday after a very dodgy heavy touch

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:21 pm**

After that display (in front of the England manager) Pope's kicking himself. What about the free kick he took which went directly to Ramsdale?
The commentator on the stream I watched implied more than once that Nick was being passed in the England pecking order and would have trouble getting back to number two.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:23 pm**

Bullabill wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:21 pm
After that display (in front of the England manager) Pope's kicking himself. What about the free kick he took which went directly to Ramsdale?
The commentator on the stream I watched implied more than once that Nick was being passed in the England pecking order and would have trouble getting back to number two.

I'll be surprised if he's in the next squad. Ramsdale will be back in if he is playing for Arsenal

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:30 pm**

How people can say it wasn't Pope's fault is beyond me. It led directly to the goal, totally avoidable if a professional footballer could just kick straight

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:32 pm**

We know that Pope's kicking is by far the weakest element of his game. That said, it has improved massively over the last few years.

Some of Ramsdale's kicking yesterday was top class, one that stands out for me was a second-half ball straight out of his hands to Aubameyang who'd made a movement towards the right wing. Pope won't ever get to that level, it's just not within his ability, and so we've got to expect the odd shanked, wayward clearance out of play. It's then up to the team to defend the resultant situations better.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:37 pm**

It’s horrendously bad.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:40 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:32 pm
We know that Pope's kicking is by far the weakest element of his game. That said, it has improved massively over the last few years.

Some of Ramsdale's kicking yesterday was top class, one that stands out for me was a second-half ball straight out of his hands to Aubameyang who'd made a movement towards the right wing. Pope won't ever get to that level, it's just not within his ability, and so we've got to expect the odd shanked, wayward clearance out of play. It's then up to the team to defend the resultant situations better.

It wasn't just the kick though... Why kick it so quick, pick the ball up, step back, walk sideways, anything to take the heat out of the game. A shanked kick under pressure I can accept, he was under no pressure yesterday

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:03 pm**

Vino blanco wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:06 pm
Disagree totally darthlaw, he did not need to trip him at all. We had central defenders back covering.

: 9CB6B577-4402-4CD0-BFFF-D59EDB9881B7.jpeg (93.07 KiB) Viewed 6144 times

Disagree if you like, but here’s the shot of Mee and Tarks both ‘covering’ the same man as Saka headed towards the massive space in front of him.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:17 pm**

A comedy of errors for their goal.

Poor kick from Pope.
Not reacting to the throw in.
Westy committing the foul.
But the biggest was the failure of some in the wall to jump, that is inexcusable at any level, never mind in a PL game.

That litany of mistakes summed up our 1st half malaise, and ultimately cost us the match.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:42 pm**

It's incredibly bad tbf, I fear the worst when the balls anywhere near his feet.

I thought he should've saved the freekick too, he was too far over his left and slow to move his feet, was a good strike but not close to the corner. Last season I think he saves that pretty easily

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:44 pm**

Does anybody think one of our outfield players would be more accurate at passing the ball 80plus yards out to the wing?

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:46 pm**

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:44 pm
Does anybody think one of our outfield players would be more accurate at passing the ball 80plus yards out to the wing?

Steven Defour with his left foot and blindfolded

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:56 pm**

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:46 pm
Steven Defour with his left foot and blindfolded

He's not one of our outfield players.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:58 pm**

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:44 pm
Does anybody think one of our outfield players would be more accurate at passing the ball 80plus yards out to the wing?

Kicking out of their hands, under no pressure?...i think even I could find some of the green stuff

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:59 pm**

Forget kicking he should have stopped the free kick

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:01 pm**

Pope's kicking is poor beyond belief and the lofted clearance with backspin was the catalyst for the goal. A vast improvement in his kicking would rocket him into the super keeper bracket but regardless, we are very lucky to have him at Turf Moor.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:04 pm**

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:56 pm
He's not one of our outfield players.

Sadly

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:10 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:46 pm
It went out of play for a throw in - the fact that they took it, our two central defenders almost run into each other trying to take one man, Westwood gave away a needless free kick and the wall didn't jump. I think you would be hard pushed to apportion much blame for the goal on his kick.

Gareth Southgate probably has

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:13 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:46 pm
It went out of play for a throw in - the fact that they took it, our two central defenders almost run into each other trying to take one man, Westwood gave away a needless free kick and the wall didn't jump. I think you would be hard pushed to apportion much blame for the goal on his kick.

I disagree. The awful, completely unnecessarily rushed kick out led seconds later to the crucial free kick and I was fuming with Pope at the time and still am. Westwood's trip MIGHT have been needless, but everything had opened up like the parting of the Red Sea and at the time I felt Westy had little choice as if he'd pulled out and a goal had resulted he'd have been pilloried. Clearly the wall should have jumped etc, but everything else stemmed from the stupid, rubbish kick and tbh, he's got form on it, even though we've mostly got away without conceding from it. he's a great keeper, but his kicking has always been his Achilles heel and yesterday it cost us big time. (And after the free kick was scored I noticed Ben Mee pointing that fact out to him!!!)

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:20 pm**

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:13 pm
I disagree. The awful, completely unnecessarily rushed kick out led seconds later to the crucial free kick and I was fuming with Pope at the time and still am. Westwood's trip MIGHT have been needless, but everything had opened up like the parting of the Red Sea and at the time I felt Westy had little choice as if he'd pulled out and a goal had resulted he'd have been pilloried. Clearly the wall should have jumped etc, but everything else stemmed from the stupid, rubbish kick and tbh, he's got form on it, even though we've mostly got away without conceding from it. he's a great keeper, but his kicking has always been his Achilles heel and yesterday it cost us big time. (And after the free kick was scored I noticed Ben Mee pointing that fact out to him!!!)

Exactly.
No need to take kick that quick, hold on to the ball
Kick it long and straight.
If any of the above happens, they don't score
To suggest the kick had no bearing on the goal is laughable

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:28 pm**

What we need to accept is that the kicking of many PL keepers has never been so good. With Pope it always appears to be a hopefully punt up front. When under pressure it usually ends up in touch. Look at the kicking of Ederson, Pickford, Allison Schmeikel, and many more, they seem to be able to ping a 70 yard pass to one of their players.. Also when these goal keepers are under major pressure they can calmly play the ball to a colleague

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:50 pm**

LongSider75 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:43 pm
Is it just me, or does anybody else think that Pope's awful kick led to Arsenal's goal yesterday. He's a good keeper but Billy Mercer has got to work with Pope on his kicking.

Southgate was there.....I think he gets nervous.
After that display his chance has gone, very poor all game.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:55 pm**

Under what pressure, he had no need to release the ball so soon. Tell you what, let's just give the ball back to Arsenal, give away a needless free kick and go chase the game. Silly and costly mistake.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:59 pm**

I think our run of losses is leaving fans needing a scapegoat. The difficulty is that we are playing very well, so there’s a range of players catching a lot of abuse.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:00 pm**

BleedingClaret wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:47 pm
That was a poor kick
But the blame for the goal lies with a very poor decision by Westwood to purposely commit a foul in that position when there were still 2 Burnley players between the attacker and our goal
Oh and the left 3 of the wall not jumping for a ball that must have gone over their heads by 6 inches or so

Westwood does that a lot because he hasn’t got pace to catch the player in front of him!

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:03 pm**

A lot of the time Pope kicks the ball, he is kicking it above knee height and from the side swinging his foot towards the ball. That way he’s not getting any accuracy. If he allowed the ball to drop below knee height and in front of him, he would have a more direct and accurate kick
Why Mercer, or the England set up have not picked up on this beggars belief.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:26 pm**

Iloveyoubrady wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:59 pm
I think our run of losses is leaving fans needing a scapegoat. The difficulty is that we are playing very well, so there’s a range of players catching a lot of abuse.

Not a scapegoat at all. I've never criticised pope before, we are talking about one incident, which the majority agree it was poor football

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:34 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:58 pm
Kicking out of their hands, under no pressure?...i think even I could find some of the green stuff

But Dyche wants the tactics of hitting the wing. I can only presume he wants the opposition full back to head it out of play and move the team up the pitch.

Pope can kick it as well as anyone down the centre and kicks it long. But we don't have centre forwards who like winning headers that far out, or quick enough to chase any balls over the top.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:43 pm**

We are not playing very well, do you watch us .?

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:49 pm**

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:34 pm
But Dyche wants the tactics of hitting the wing. I can only presume he wants the opposition full back to head it out of play and move the team up the pitch.

Pope can kick it as well as anyone down the centre and kicks it long. But we don't have centre forwards who like winning headers that far out, or quick enough to chase any balls over the top.

There wasn't anyone to hit, and it went out way in front of any full back

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:54 pm**

Taffy on the wing wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:50 pm
Southgate was there.....I think he gets nervous.
After that display his chance has gone, very poor all game.

No way Pickford is getting dropped after the Euros anyway. Best Pope can hope for is to be 2nd choice.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:00 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:49 pm
There wasn't anyone to hit, and it went out way in front of any full back

It's an often repeated tactic by us.

I can't say I was paying attention to where everyone was when he kicked it.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:26 pm**

For all the highly experienced GK coaches on , I’ve never once seen Pope make an error for BFC with his feet that contributed directly to a goal ? He’s certainly never been robbed off his toes ( surprisingly) no doubt the stats will show the odd time he’s given away “ long “ possession but I’m struggling to think of ANY howlers ever ? Let’s face it every keeper has a howler error sometimes , but seems very rare in NP’s case .

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:44 pm**

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:00 pm
It's an often repeated tactic by us.

I can't say I was paying attention to where everyone was when he kicked it.

He tried to slice the ball forward to our centre forwards to launch a quick counter attack, but instead of slicing the ball he hit right through it and it went out of play about 35 yards from our corner.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:45 pm**

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:26 pm
For all the highly experienced GK coaches on , I’ve never once seen Pope make an error for BFC with his feet that contributed directly to a goal ? He’s certainly never been robbed off his toes ( surprisingly) no doubt the stats will show the odd time he’s given away “ long “ possession but I’m struggling to think of ANY howlers ever ? Let’s face it every keeper has a howler error sometimes , but seems very rare in NP’s case .

Newcastle away last season.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:59 pm**

Still wouldn't swop him for the vast majority of Premier league keepers.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:08 pm**

Bfc wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:03 pm
A lot of the time Pope kicks the ball, he is kicking it above knee height and from the side swinging his foot towards the ball. That way he’s not getting any accuracy. If he allowed the ball to drop below knee height and in front of him, he would have a more direct and accurate kick
Why Mercer, or the England set up have not picked up on this beggars belief.

This is just not true. Speaking as a keeper, you can get much more power and accuracy from the 'side volley' than the old fashioned drop kick. It's also a quicker attack as it has a flatter trajectory, and therefore easier to control for the forwards.

The majority of keepers nowadays use this technique.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:01 pm**

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:59 pm
Still wouldn't swop him for the vast majority of Premier league keepers.

Neither would I. But it was still ridiculously poor yesterday

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:08 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:45 pm
Newcastle away last season.

Yes he gave the pen away ? Heavy touch then collided making the save ? He’s a very decent keeper and good for us , though it’s clear why no other clubs were seriously interested . He’s not quite as good as Heaton ( who had excellent feet ) but his sheer leg span and anticipation on the save is worth a few saved goals alone.

Posted: **Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:59 pm**

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:08 pm
Yes he gave the pen away ? Heavy touch then collided making the save ? He’s a very decent keeper and good for us , though it’s clear why no other clubs were seriously interested . He’s not quite as good as Heaton ( who had excellent feet ) but his sheer leg span and anticipation on the save is worth a few saved goals alone.

He’s a fantastic keeper and I don’t think we could expect better. I agree that maybe Heaton in his prime was a better all round keeper but not much between them.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:11 am**

Its nothing new, his kicking has always been very poor. I actually thought the past couple of days it was getting better, but last game it was awful once again.

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