UK short of 100,000 drivers
Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
But weren’t we 60,000 short anyway before the pandemic. Let’s get some of the forces to help out.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Maybe if lazy arsed people went out to shops and food places to buy things we could release 50k delivery drivers.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
I’m not sure some driving an Amazon transit van is quite qualified for an articulated lorry or petrol tanker.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:04 pmMaybe if lazy arsed people went out to shops and food places to buy things we could release 50k delivery drivers.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Considering that Brexit has provided a million vacancies, rather than millions of lost jobs, it's daft to pick out anything without looking at the bigger picture.
When we run out of Petrol, that will be blamed on Brexit as well, when in reality it will be the fault of all those that are queueing to fill a tank they don't use. Rather like we were never going to run out of toilet rolls, but then you can't educate idiots.
The short term problems we have with drivers can be easily fixed, but it takes time to train people. The problem also has as much to do with Covid, and the poor pay that many drivers have been forced to put up with due to the EU and the deflated wages schenken was created for.
Why work for minimum wage, when you can earn twice as much doing the same job for somebody else.
I work for a company that imports PFA from power stations in Ireland. we had 8 loads parked in Liverpool docks for a fortnight, but that was all down to the company transporting it losing so many drivers because of Covid restrictions.
When we run out of Petrol, that will be blamed on Brexit as well, when in reality it will be the fault of all those that are queueing to fill a tank they don't use. Rather like we were never going to run out of toilet rolls, but then you can't educate idiots.
The short term problems we have with drivers can be easily fixed, but it takes time to train people. The problem also has as much to do with Covid, and the poor pay that many drivers have been forced to put up with due to the EU and the deflated wages schenken was created for.
Why work for minimum wage, when you can earn twice as much doing the same job for somebody else.
I work for a company that imports PFA from power stations in Ireland. we had 8 loads parked in Liverpool docks for a fortnight, but that was all down to the company transporting it losing so many drivers because of Covid restrictions.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Variety of issues here - Brexit is one of them, certainly, but not the only one by a long way. After Bexit, Covid then halted training of new drivers whilst many became unemployed and either retired or found new work and don’t fancy returning given the unsociable nature of the work.
There’s another issue, which businesses don’t like to shout about so much - they’ve been employing self-employed drivers, either directly, via agencies or third parties for many years instead of having on-payroll staff. Lots of benefits of that to them, but not to the Treasury or taxpayer in general. Now those guys are following the money and they’re less readily available because IR35 off-payroll tax changes have damaged that market.
Is it any wonder that companies that have neglected their logistics and tried to take as much cost out through use of cheap foreign labour are now bleating about shortages and begging for its reintroduction?
Long-term, these businesses need to rebuild their logistics functions, re-employ staff, pay them decent wages for the work, give them holidays/proper conditions, pensions, etc. Basically offer good British jobs to British people.
If it means I have to live without a few items on my Christmas lunch this year while they get their acts together, so be it. I over eat anyway.
There’s another issue, which businesses don’t like to shout about so much - they’ve been employing self-employed drivers, either directly, via agencies or third parties for many years instead of having on-payroll staff. Lots of benefits of that to them, but not to the Treasury or taxpayer in general. Now those guys are following the money and they’re less readily available because IR35 off-payroll tax changes have damaged that market.
Is it any wonder that companies that have neglected their logistics and tried to take as much cost out through use of cheap foreign labour are now bleating about shortages and begging for its reintroduction?
Long-term, these businesses need to rebuild their logistics functions, re-employ staff, pay them decent wages for the work, give them holidays/proper conditions, pensions, etc. Basically offer good British jobs to British people.
If it means I have to live without a few items on my Christmas lunch this year while they get their acts together, so be it. I over eat anyway.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Last week I was talking to one of our suppliers about our logistics and the utter nightmare it's been lately. He replied that there was always going to be pain before we reach the gains. I replied that I didn't see that written on the side of a bus. Stoney silence followed.burnley007 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:03 pmDoes anyone know when these benefits of Brexit are due to kick in? I've only seen utter nightmare scenarios so far...
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
It was all entirely predictable.
We have lost most of our rights to travel, study and work freely in the EU without restrictions, but we will be giving incentives for foreign workers to come over here to fill essential jobs, pay taxes and help pay our pensions.
Fortunately we have the £350 million / week to mitigate our growing problems.
We have lost most of our rights to travel, study and work freely in the EU without restrictions, but we will be giving incentives for foreign workers to come over here to fill essential jobs, pay taxes and help pay our pensions.
Fortunately we have the £350 million / week to mitigate our growing problems.
Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Political threads are not permitted.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
For lorry drivers, seeing their wages double recently is a bit of brexit bonus dont you think!?burnley007 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:03 pmDoes anyone know when these benefits of Brexit are due to kick in? I've only seen utter nightmare scenarios so far...
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Financial Times reported this week the EU itself has a shortage of 400,000 lorry drivers.
Is that the fault of brexit!?
Is that the fault of brexit!?
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
When I point out that the Remain lot promised if we voted to Leave there'd be -Billy Balfour wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:56 pmLast week I was talking to one of our suppliers about our logistics and the utter nightmare it's been lately. He replied that there was always going to be pain before we reach the gains. I replied that I didn't see that written on the side of a bus. Stoney silence followed.
Emergency budget the morning after a leave vote.
Siemens will leave.
Unemployment will rise by 850,000 in 18 months
Nissan will leave
A £4000pa per family tax rise
Housing market crash
Toyota will upsticks
Stock market crash
"Confidence in the UK economy would evaporate overnight " Alistair Darling
Inward investment would dry up.
Wages would go down.
None of which have happened I too am met with stoney silence . Funny that !
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Yes, it's all going really well!RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:20 pmWhen I point out that the Remain lot promised if we voted to Leave there'd be -
Emergency budget the morning after a leave vote.
Siemens will leave.
Unemployment will rise by 850,000 in 18 months
Nissan will leave
A £4000pa per family tax rise
Housing market crash
Toyota will upsticks
Stock market crash
"Confidence in the UK economy would evaporate overnight " Alistair Darling
Inward investment would dry up.
Wages would go down.
None of which have happened I too am met with stoney silence . Funny that !
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Shortages only demonstrate that vast profits were not being handed on to those doing the work. Years of obscene profits that have not been handed down the line… you know the trickle economy that makes mega rich and the wealth fountain that has been a Tory myth since the Glorious revolution (1688). A change of mentality from the highest earners is needed… but they would rather sit back and hold the nation to ransom than see their companies bottom line effected by paying the true rate to employ the peons below them.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
How it started...
How its going...
How its going...
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
I couldn't give a toss what either side said during the referendum. I'm at the coalface, trying to keep our business afloat, along with the 15 jobs it provides, and all I know that Brexit is slowly killing us. Johnson's oven ready deal was dogshit - just like his American trade deal and all those other trade deals that were supposed to be 'oven ready' on Day One. This has to be the most anti business Tory Govt in living memory.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Agree.
Workers wages finally rising rapidly.
Nissan didn't leave Sunderland they made it their centre of European operations. Remainers lied through their teeth!
The IMF predict the uk economy, outside the EU, to be the fastest growing of the G7 and all of the EU nations.
Inward foreign investment at record levels.
Employment at record levels.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
And inflation likely to go through the roof as a result.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:39 pmAgree.
Workers wages finally rising rapidly.
Nissan didn't leave Sunderland they made it their centre of European operations. Remainers lied through their teeth!
The IMF predict the uk economy, outside the EU, to be the fastest growing of the G7 and all of the EU nations.
Inward foreign investment at record levels.
Employment at record levels.
REASONS TO BE CHEERFUL
If your wage isn't rising then energy bills are going to be astronomical, as are food prices.
And you say reasons to be cheerful.
btw, the economy isn't rising, it's only catching up because the UK had performed so badly.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
The reason so many drivers came in from Eastern Europe is because the UK has always avoided paying the wages demanded in Western Europe.Spijed wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:55 pmAnd inflation likely to go through the roof as a result.
If your wage isn't rising then energy bills are going to be astronomical, as are food prices.
And you say reasons to be cheerful.
btw, the economy isn't rising, it's only catching up because the UK had performed so badly.
There is always a rebound after a pandemic, Brexit’s timing equates to two Pandemics. In economic terms a good plague always helps increase wages in the supply and demand market… two together makes for shortages.
The economy needs to re-align, the pigs in the moneyed south see their trough under threat and hence the almighty squeal to get cheap Labour back.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
I am still waiting for The City to up sticks and move to Paris / Frankfurt.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:20 pmWhen I point out that the Remain lot promised if we voted to Leave there'd be -
Emergency budget the morning after a leave vote.
Siemens will leave.
Unemployment will rise by 850,000 in 18 months
Nissan will leave
A £4000pa per family tax rise
Housing market crash
Toyota will upsticks
Stock market crash
"Confidence in the UK economy would evaporate overnight " Alistair Darling
Inward investment would dry up.
Wages would go down.
None of which have happened I too am met with stoney silence . Funny that !
And yes, this is a political thread and should be pulled.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
And you forgot to mention all those great trade deals we are getting as well!RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:39 pmAgree.
Workers wages finally rising rapidly.
Nissan didn't leave Sunderland they made it their centre of European operations. Remainers lied through their teeth!
The IMF predict the uk economy, outside the EU, to be the fastest growing of the G7 and all of the EU nations.
Inward foreign investment at record levels.
Employment at record levels.
REASONS TO BE CHEERFUL
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Makes you wonder where all the drivers who went home because of Brexit have gone, given the driver shortage the majority of Europe are experiencing
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
This has nothing to do with brexit, Poland is 125k short , Germany 85k , France 60k , Spain 45k, portugal. 20k and a lot more in the ones Not named.
It’s COVID related. No tests - exams for 2 years , avg age of a driver 55-57 , retirements not being replaced , 57% of drivers fail first time and it can take 10-15 weeks to get a retest.
We are very thin on the ground in all of Europe on hgv drivers as its not seen as attractive. Allowing temp visas is pointless , as most foreign drivers returned to there home countries and have plenty of employment due to the situation being the same or worse there.
It’s free parking on services in Europe - £35 here. For drivers facility’s are much better over there than here thinking the visa’s solves anything is fantasy where at least 12 months away from being back to normality,
It’s COVID related. No tests - exams for 2 years , avg age of a driver 55-57 , retirements not being replaced , 57% of drivers fail first time and it can take 10-15 weeks to get a retest.
We are very thin on the ground in all of Europe on hgv drivers as its not seen as attractive. Allowing temp visas is pointless , as most foreign drivers returned to there home countries and have plenty of employment due to the situation being the same or worse there.
It’s free parking on services in Europe - £35 here. For drivers facility’s are much better over there than here thinking the visa’s solves anything is fantasy where at least 12 months away from being back to normality,
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Bit twitter said...Goalposts wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:30 pmThis has nothing to do with brexit, Poland is 125k short , Germany 85k , France 60k , Spain 45k, portugal. 20k and a lot more in the ones Not named.
It’s COVID related. No tests - exams for 2 years , avg age of a driver 55-57 , retirements not being replaced , 57% of drivers fail first time and it can take 10-15 weeks to get a retest.
We are very thin on the ground in all of Europe on hgv drivers as its not seen as attractive. Allowing temp visas is pointless , as most foreign drivers returned to there home countries and have plenty of employment due to the situation being the same or worse there.
It’s free parking on services in Europe - £35 here. For drivers facility’s are much better over there than here thinking the visa’s solves anything is fantasy where at least 12 months away from being back to normality,
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Yet the rest of Europe aren't facing anywhere near the supply chain issues that the UK are.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
There are multiple reasons behind the shortage of drivers, something that as a Transport Manager impacts my operation on a daily basis.
1. IR35 rule changes meaning the tax benefits that were present by working through an agency are no longer attractive.
2. Removal of C1 category from licences obtained after April 1997. It takes away the route of entry into 7.5t driving and the progression through the categories to C&E. So if you want to drive a 7.5t you have to take an extra test. But for 200 quid more you can take a Class 2 which boosts your earnings. Big problems getting 7.5t drivers as a result.
3. Driver CPC course. Many older drivers left the industry in 2014 when this was introduced as they didn't want to sit in a classroom. In principle a good idea but as with most things government it has been badly implemented.
4. Long hours, poor pay, appalling facilities, unsocial hours, lack of home life. It is not an attractive industry to recruit into when you work shifts up to 15 hours a day, live and sleep in your cab with no sanitary or hygiene facilities parked in a lay by or industrial estate. Anywhere that has facilities will charge 30 quid a night just to park up, which the driver has to pay.
An agency I use is advertising a job which is Thu to Mon start between 12pm and 6pm, ave 10 hours per shift delivering to McDonalds so it is tail litt and roll cage work. Offering around 23 quid an hour plus 50 per day bonus for Saturday and Sunday working. So this is a 60k+ per year job. And they have had little interest. Many more stories like this one.
1. IR35 rule changes meaning the tax benefits that were present by working through an agency are no longer attractive.
2. Removal of C1 category from licences obtained after April 1997. It takes away the route of entry into 7.5t driving and the progression through the categories to C&E. So if you want to drive a 7.5t you have to take an extra test. But for 200 quid more you can take a Class 2 which boosts your earnings. Big problems getting 7.5t drivers as a result.
3. Driver CPC course. Many older drivers left the industry in 2014 when this was introduced as they didn't want to sit in a classroom. In principle a good idea but as with most things government it has been badly implemented.
4. Long hours, poor pay, appalling facilities, unsocial hours, lack of home life. It is not an attractive industry to recruit into when you work shifts up to 15 hours a day, live and sleep in your cab with no sanitary or hygiene facilities parked in a lay by or industrial estate. Anywhere that has facilities will charge 30 quid a night just to park up, which the driver has to pay.
An agency I use is advertising a job which is Thu to Mon start between 12pm and 6pm, ave 10 hours per shift delivering to McDonalds so it is tail litt and roll cage work. Offering around 23 quid an hour plus 50 per day bonus for Saturday and Sunday working. So this is a 60k+ per year job. And they have had little interest. Many more stories like this one.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
IslandDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:39 pmYet the rest of Europe aren't facing anywhere near the supply chain issues that the UK are.
We import a lot
Economy is mainly service based
Covid - driver issues, warehouse issues, shop issues
Panic buying
That container ship that got stuck delayed a lot of stuff.
You're not a daft bloke and you probably know all this, but like many other remainers you'll ignore it all to try and drive home your pro EU angle.
It's tiresome but I suppose it gives you lot something to whine about
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
You've got me wrong as I understand and agree with all the things Herts detailed. However considering our govt knew all off this for them to pursue a Brexit that makes the UK a more hostile and difficult place for European HGV drivers to live and work and pursuing a Brexit that makes importing and exporting across our channel sea border is suicidal and we have effectively knee capped ourselves. This is why the EU can mitigate the issues whilst we in the sh*t and will be for years to comeGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:49 pmIsland
We import a lot
Economy is mainly service based
Covid - driver issues, warehouse issues, shop issues
Panic buying
That container ship that got stuck delayed a lot of stuff.
You're not a daft bloke and you probably know all this, but like many other remainers you'll ignore it all to try and drive home your pro EU angle.
It's tiresome but I suppose it gives you lot something to whine about
Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
We’ve always been short of HGV drivers but the supposed ‘fuel crisis’ is nothing to do with that.
Most normal HGV drivers don’t possess the relevant ADR qualification to deliver bulk fuel anyway.
Most normal HGV drivers don’t possess the relevant ADR qualification to deliver bulk fuel anyway.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
The problem is as we are at minimum levels , the supermarkets are the biggest problem. Miss your slot by 10 mins and you can be waiting 4-6 hrs before you get unloaded, which then impacts on your next pick up , which also impacts on the product freshness. All hgv drivers are on the clock. The amount of time a 3 job drop off pick up in one day being held up by supermarkets is a major problem.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:39 pmYet the rest of Europe aren't facing anywhere near the supply chain issues that the UK are.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
I’ll just say as someone who works in the supply chain for a major U.K. business, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Get your Christmas stuff bought now.
Get your Christmas stuff bought now.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
You have got to be pretty dim to think you’d start seeing the benefits of brexit straight away.burnley007 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:03 pmDoes anyone know when these benefits of Brexit are due to kick in? I've only seen utter nightmare scenarios so far...
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Exactly.We've been out of the EU for five minutes. Let's come back in 5 years time to see how things are really taking shape. As has been mentioned, the whole if Europe is in an HGV driver crisis, not just the UK.gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:59 pmYou have got to be pretty dim to think you’d start seeing the benefits of brexit straight away.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Hgv driver shortage has been an issue that Europe in general has been aware of for over a decade.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:58 pmYou've got me wrong as I understand and agree with all the things Herts detailed. However considering our govt knew all off this for them to pursue a Brexit that makes the UK a more hostile and difficult place for European HGV drivers to live and work and pursuing a Brexit that makes importing and exporting across our channel sea border is suicidal and we have effectively knee capped ourselves. This is why the EU can mitigate the issues whilst we in the sh*t and will be for years to come
6 million EU27 citizens applied for right to stay.
There are reports of lots of eastern European drivers taking the Covid relief money and disappearing back home with tens of thousands of ££
We won't be in the crap for years to come, it will level out and things will carry on as normal like they would do without a pandemic
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
By the sounds of it our military should have applied for jobs as drivers.
Already driving the ambulances north of the border and now people want them driving petrol tankers.
In a few weeks they will be busy plucking the turkeys.
Already driving the ambulances north of the border and now people want them driving petrol tankers.
In a few weeks they will be busy plucking the turkeys.
Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
fail to plan, plan to failGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:49 pmIsland
We import a lot
Economy is mainly service based
Covid - driver issues, warehouse issues, shop issues
Panic buying
That container ship that got stuck delayed a lot of stuff.
You're not a daft bloke and you probably know all this, but like many other remainers you'll ignore it all to try and drive home your pro EU angle.
It's tiresome but I suppose it gives you lot something to whine about
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Our Brexit policy and its rhetoric specifically around freedom of movement, immigration and regulatory alignment has exasperated the issues you have mentioned.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:22 pmHgv driver shortage has been an issue that Europe in general has been aware of for over a decade.
6 million EU27 citizens applied for right to stay.
There are reports of lots of eastern European drivers taking the Covid relief money and disappearing back home with tens of thousands of ££
We won't be in the crap for years to come, it will level out and things will carry on as normal like they would do without a pandemic
If Brexit would not have happened we would not be seeing all the supply chain issues that we are and would be more in line with the rest of the EU who have challenges but are able to manage them
As for things levelling out our country is going down the pan because of Brexit and covid is hiding the reality of what a sh*tstorm it is.
Im not gonna go back over all the old arguments as we are now seeing project reality and the only chance we have of halting this slide if people have a bit of honesty about the mess we have created.
Over to you pal as there's nowt more I can do
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Aye, but my missus didn't see any gaps whatsoever in supermarkets, or long queues at service stations when she was in Germany on Friday.Andreshotboots wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:18 pmAs has been mentioned, the whole if Europe is in an HGV driver crisis, not just the UK.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
There's no tanker driving shortage.. the powers that be want to scare you into thinking there is.. then you'll be supportive when the cheap labour is imported and wages kept low.. I can't see foreign drivers coming over here without some promise of being able to stay longer than 3 months and they can't just drive a tanker without rigorous tests which take time.. it was carbon dioxide last week.. petrol this week.. probably brussel sprouts next
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Going down the panDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:31 pmOur Brexit policy and its rhetoric specifically around freedom of movement, immigration and regulatory alignment has exasperated the issues you have mentioned.
If Brexit would not have happened we would not be seeing all the supply chain issues that we are and would be more in line with the rest of the EU who have challenges but are able to manage them
As for things levelling out our country is going down the pan because of Brexit and covid is hiding the reality of what a sh*tstorm it is.
Im not gonna go back over all the old arguments as we are now seeing project reality and the only chance we have of halting this slide if people have a bit of honesty about the mess we have created.
Over to you pal as there's nowt more I can do
Project reality
What about the emergency budget and super gonorrhoea?
Of course it isn't going down the pan, that's the rhetoric you want to push though.
Companies moving to the UK, investing, current UK companies expanding etc.
London still at the top of the financial food chain.
Of course Brexit would present issues, but Covid is really causing a lot of problems, same across the world.
Look around you, life is carrying on as normal for majority of people.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Woonderbah, unfortunately, there is a shortage and there are no ifs and buts about it.
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Tbf it’s the hysterical media reaction that has caused panic buying over fuel . There’s always a small % of pumps without fuel . The driver shortage , ( already large ) worsened by covid and again made slightly more so by Brexit. EU also have a huge hgv shortage though their media is acting responsibly ( much as it pains me to say )Woonderbah wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:12 pmThere's no tanker driving shortage.. the powers that be want to scare you into thinking there is.. then you'll be supportive when the cheap labour is imported and wages kept low.. I can't see foreign drivers coming over here without some promise of being able to stay longer than 3 months and they can't just drive a tanker without rigorous tests which take time.. it was carbon dioxide last week.. petrol this week.. probably brussel sprouts next
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
Billy Balfour wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:22 pmWoonderbah, unfortunately, there is a shortage and there are no ifs and buts about it.
I know plenty of tanker drivers.. when you see one delivering go and ask him how you can get a job with his firm.. he'll tell you there aren't any vacancies..
General haulage and supermarket deliveries are straining to keep up yes, but not fuel deliveries
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Re: UK short of 100,000 drivers
I've always said that nobody wants to own their own mess. People will deny reality, even when faced with hard truths. Anyway, I'm out of this one - it's Saturday evening.
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