I know there's a general thread on the topic, but this is a specific question to think about. If it had been Saudi Arabia rather than ALK that took over Burnley, it seems likely we could look forward to becoming one of the top clubs in Europe. But would we want people like that in charge of the club, a totalitarian state ruled by murderers and war criminals?

For me, it's an absolute no, but it seems like most Newcastle supporters are really happy about it. Of course there's a dilemma and we all want our team to win every match, but surely there's a limit to how far one is willing to let go of moral instincts. I would be interested to read what others think about it.

More chance of aliens from Mars taking over.

For me it’s an absolute yes.

Whatever your answer, we put up with Bob Lord for long enough and he was a proper tyrant!

If football fans seriously had any "morals" they wouldn't have anything to do with the Premier League, Sky, the World Cup, FIFA, UEFA, the FA and a host of other things.
But most are happy to go along with things save for occasional virtue-signalling about betting logos on shirts.

No thanks. Burnley are one of the few proper success stories in football. From the top to the bottom and all the way back again without any sugar daddies or massive debt distorting things. We've done it all the right way in comparison to the vast majority of clubs and that's something I'm really proud of. I've no interest in the plastic success of city, Chelsea, and all the rest and I wouldn't want to become like them. It's all so hollow.

And that's before you even get near the human rights side of it.

CleggHall wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:39 pm

Whatever your answer, we put up with Bob Lord for long enough and he was a proper tyrant!

I'm assuming you are joking , in comparing Bob Lord to the Saudi regime !?
That's a dafter statement than even Newcastle/jakub seem capable of making

alf_resco wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:43 pm

If football fans seriously had any "morals" they wouldn't have anything to do with the Premier League, Sky, the World Cup, FIFA, UEFA, the FA and a host of other things.
But most are happy to go along with things save for occasional virtue-signalling about betting logos on shirts.

I hear what you’re saying.

But I think if a Saudi consortium took over Burnley, that would be it for me. A step too far.

There's a big difference. Newcastle have under achieved and may also have further potential, both the opposite of us.

But to answer your question. I'm not overly happy with ALK simply because they are not Burnley supporters that we've always had in the past - people with a genuine interest in the club and not just financial (I appreciate that's no guarantee of good behaviour but it's probably the best we can do). Whether they have good morals is another question - they certainly give a public impression of having them.

Saudis, Russians etc. with money. It seems to me if they made their money in their home countries then they have the approval of their countries' leaders and must be tainted by that. Therefore we can be pretty certain that they have lower standards of honesty.

Therefore I wouldn't like it.

Newcastle fans though perhaps just want to get rid of Ashley and don't care what replaces him.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:43 pm

No thanks. Burnley are one of the few proper success stories in football. From the top to the bottom and all the way back again without any sugar daddies or massive debt distorting things. We've done it all the right way in comparison to the vast majority of clubs and that's something I'm really proud of. I've no interest in the plastic success of city, Chelsea, and all the rest and I wouldn't want to become like them. It's all so hollow.

And that's before you even get near the human rights side of it.

Exactly this. Saved me having to type it out myself.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:43 pm

No thanks. Burnley are one of the few proper success stories in football. From the top to the bottom and all the way back again without any sugar daddies or massive debt distorting things. We've done it all the right way in comparison to the vast majority of clubs and that's something I'm really proud of. I've no interest in the plastic success of city, Chelsea, and all the rest and I wouldn't want to become like them. It's all so hollow.

And that's before you even get near the human rights side of it.

This. This. This.

Egyptians and Lybians were the closest we got, so far...

[quote=But I think if a Saudi consortium took over Burnley, that would be it for me. A step too far.
[/quote]

100% agree with those sentiments. that would be far too much for me and I
would be off to persue another pastime.

Where would be the pride, pleasure and satisfaction of buying your way to the top ?

Not for me I'm afraid.

Rich

I'd love to say it would matter. Maybe it would.

But it doesn't half depress me when I see a cricketfield end full if City fans singing about being champions. It would be nice wouldn't it.

How far do I let my morals guide me. If I look around my house and I see branded electronics and trainers and some poor kid in the third world probably suffered to build/ make them or mine the metals inside.

Luckily I won't ever have to make the choice!

Shearer’s son tweeted he was “going on the lash for ever” once the take over was done. Looks like the Saudi’s are getting straight down to business!

alf_resco wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:43 pm

If football fans seriously had any "morals" they wouldn't have anything to do with the Premier League, Sky, the World Cup, FIFA, UEFA, the FA and a host of other things.
But most are happy to go along with things save for occasional virtue-signalling about betting logos on shirts.

The charge of hypocrisy is completely ludicrous. The fact that a person can't escape the corruption and baseness of the world save for living in the woods doesn't mean they give tacit approval to every terrible practice that happens in the world. This is where an individual's moral compass determines what they can stomach and what they cannot. There's a world of difference between suffering the loathsome, rapacious parasites seen everywhere in the game, and tolerating despotic regimes utterly poisoning the game. FWIW Burnley wouldn't get a single penny from me if such a takeover happened. We could be on the cusp of a league title on the final day and I wouldn't have a ticket given to me for free. This isn't virtue signalling, it's called morality. Sorry to be pompous by referencing him but to simplify Kant, where it is practical you should act in such a way as though everyone else were compelled to behave in the same way as you. This is a good basis for making moral decisions. It's why I don't litter, for instance. Not because it's punishable, but because I don't want to live in a world where every person litters. Were everyone compelled to act the same way as me — no litter. I'd choose to disengage from Burnley FC on the basis that were every person to do the same, Burnley FC would be an unviable enterprise, thus chasing these parasites from the game. I know FOR A FACT that this would not happen, I'm not being quixotic, but the principle, while recognising that nobody is pure, and absolute purity is not achievable, is the basis of your moral choices. This is why it's called a moral compass and not, I don't know, a moral taxi. You're guided, not entirely driven, by morality, because the world is not perfect. Thinking about morality seems novel to a lot of folk, though I can't say I'm entirely surprised. It is in fact your position, of holding people to a unattainable level of consistency and purity, that is the problem. I think a lot of people are more practical than you appear to be, and are still good people with good morals, and they are not hypocrites.

claret wizard wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:25 pm

Shearer’s son tweeted he was “going on the lash for ever” once the take over was done. Looks like the Saudi’s are getting straight down to business!

Hopefully they'll be as successful as they were when his dad played for them, and certainly when he managed them.

We've sold out now so it no longer matters.

Quite an apposite thread this in that I spent an hour or two with five Man City blokes, and others, in our local. They'd come down for a funeral.
It all started well enough, the bloke I was talking to particularly seemed interested and fairly complimentary about the Clarets. As time moved on, the blokes revealed how, of course, they'd supported Citeh through thick and thin and still stuck to the old school values....As the night wore on, they regaled us with "hilarious" tales of getting ****** in virtually every European capital following their boys and on some occasions not actually going to the game.
I wasn't really sure about them to be honest but the mask slipped when the bloke I'd been talking to smirked and came out with a snidey comment about our "big game" the day after against Norwich as we were leaving.
I missed the best bit, though. A couple of these blokes were chatting up a couple of locals' wives and one of their husbands, a bit of a knob and a Blades fan too, when hearing they were from Manchester, asked who they supported. They were mightily offended, apparently, because Manchester people support Citeh, dontcha know, and the others support United.
The old bloke amongst them got so oyned, they were all chucked out.
My point is, I guess, no matter how hard you try, once your club goes down that route, you're going to sell out eventually and become perceived as just another arrogant "big club" arsehole.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:51 pm

We've sold out now so it no longer matters.

You say that but what would Mr Pace and Co do if a Saudi consortium knocked on his door tomorrow wanting to buy the club?

Personally I’m disgusted that this has been allowed to happen.

What’s not to like? It would completely change not just the club but one of the poorest parts of the country and provide the youth of Burnley with a lot of opportunities.

The world isn’t fair. I want Burnley to win things. If they had Burnley and we win things I would love it

beddie wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:16 pm

You say that but what would Mr Pace and Co do if a Saudi consortium knocked on his door tomorrow wanting to buy the club?

Personally I’m disgusted that this has been allowed to happen.

I don't see any difference between ALK and any other overseas company/consortium/ whatever.

Football sold its soul years ago.
Money talks full stop and after a bit of moral posturing to begin with, everyone just gets on with it. The recriminations and questioning of the Newcastle takeover will only come, if it goes to pot.

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:28 pm

The world isn’t fair. I want Burnley to win things. If they had Burnley and we win things I would love it

Unfair world. The go-to justification every b.astard throughout history has used to excuse their own lack of scruples. Truth is, you and others like you don't actually care whether the world is fair or not, and even were it otherwise 'fair', an idea so nebulous it can't be used to measure anything objectively, you'd still be led by the desire to see a Saudi-backed Burnley win above all else, even above your own conscience, and so you'd lie to yourself about some other concocted nonsense to try and scrub your conscience clean. I'd have more respect for folks like you if you just came out and said "yeah, let Pablo Escobar run the club for all I care, or the Yorkshire ripper," rather than the pi$$-weak justifications I'm reading.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:43 pm

No thanks. Burnley are one of the few proper success stories in football.

Chelsea just won the Champions League, that is success. Nobody outside of Burnley gives a toss how much money we've spent.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:04 pm

Chelsea just won the Champions League, that is success. Nobody outside of Burnley gives a toss how much money we've spent.

Actually they do. They tend to mock us for not spending it.

I want Burnley to be the very best team around and I'd love to see the local area thriving, there's only one way to do that.

Arguments along the lines of 'it's not a fair world' and 'it's all bad anyway' or 'football's sold its soul' are weak and don't stand up to any reasonable scrutiny. They deal only in absolutes and miss the point that differences of degree and extent are real differences. I don't like being owned by ALK but I can see the difference between them and Saudi Arabia. Anybody can see the difference, it's so obvious.

But if anyone is still in doubt, well for a start ALK don't murder people, ALK don't bomb civilians in Yemen and kill children, and ALK don't lock up and torture people who criticise them. Differences of degree are real differences. Get it?

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:10 pm

I want Burnley to be the very best team around and I'd love to see the local area thriving, there's only one way to do that.

Being taken over by a rogue state like Saudi Arabia?

Because football is very tribal and any success money brings will mean that any owner will be quickly forgiven for any atrocities or genocide these owners are involved in.

That's how life tends to work unfortunately.

Spiral wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:50 pm

Unfair world. The go-to justification every b.astard throughout history has used to excuse their own lack of scruples. Truth is, you and others like you don't actually care whether the world is fair or not, and even were it otherwise 'fair', an idea so nebulous it can't be used to measure anything objectively, you'd still be led by the desire to see a Saudi-backed Burnley win above all else, even above your own conscience, and so you'd lie to yourself about some other concocted nonsense to try and scrub your conscience clean. I'd have more respect for folks like you if you just came out and said "yeah, let Pablo Escobar run the club for all I care, or the Yorkshire ripper," rather than the pi$$-weak justifications I'm reading.

I’d love Burnley to win things yes. Whether that be ALk, Saudi or the local butcher.

Erasmus wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:11 pm

But if anyone is still in doubt, well for a start ALK don't murder people, ALK don't bomb civilians in Yemen and kill children, and ALK don't lock up and torture people who criticise them. Differences of degree are real differences. Get it?

How many innocent people did the UK bomb and kill in Iraq and Syria? why does nobody mention that.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:32 pm

How many innocent people did the UK bomb and kill in Iraq and Syria? why does nobody mention that.

It's not the UK government that are taking over Newcastle United.

Can't believe that was a serious comment.

I'm guessing that all those who're pontificating on here - and to be fair, almost everywhere else one looks - about the Saudi Arabian regime, have walked up to the moral high ground, having elected not to buy any Saudi-supporting fuel or lubricating oil to enable them to drive or cycle there.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:33 pm

It's not the UK government that are taking over Newcastle United.

But people in this country vote said government into a position of power. Also, the UK is Saudi's 2nd largest arms dealer....

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:28 pm

I’d love Burnley to win things yes. Whether that be ALk, Saudi or the local butcher.

Yes I’m the same. Imagine Burnley playing in the champions league, it would be absolutely incredible

Sooo...moral-free, pure self-advancement at all cost. Pull down the blinkers, remain ignorant or indifferent (delete where appropriate). It's always good when people reveal themselves for who they really are.

Man living at number 8 rapes and murders woman living at number 10. Everyone knows number 8 did it, but number 8 gets away with it. Number 12 was sick of hearing the racket the late number 10 always made, and now number 12 gets some sleep because number 10 is now dead. Number 8 asks to move into number 12's home. You're number 12. Number 8 will put a new kitchen in for you. You're going to let him in, right? I mean, you get a free kitchen, and you didn't murder number 10, so your hands are clean?

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:38 pm

But people in this country vote said government into a position of power. Also, the UK is Saudi's 2nd largest arms dealer....

I know. What's your point?

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:25 pm

What’s not to like? It would completely change not just the club but one of the poorest parts of the country and provide the youth of Burnley with a lot of opportunities.

Do you post this **** just so you can get a reaction and into an argument? How the hell does a football owner change a town for the towns people?

I’d like to think we as people from Burnley would have better morals than want people like the Saudi royal family involved with our town and club.

Erasmus wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:11 pm

...ALK don't lock up and torture people...

So the gates are open and we're actually free to leave before the final whistle blows?

bf2k wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:40 pm

Do you post this **** just so you can get a reaction and into an argument? How the hell does a football owner change a town for the towns people?

Similar to how to Man City’s owners did it with there local community

Delightful, money desperately needs pumping into the club & as good as ALKs intentions are you can’t extract blood from a stone, the Saudis aren’t a bad bunch generally speaking as another brucey bonus.

bf2k wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:40 pm

Do you post this **** just so you can get a reaction and into an argument? How the hell does a football owner change a town for the towns people?

They dump millions of pounds into the local area, like the Thai owners at Leicester have done.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:42 pm

Similar to how to Man City’s owners did it with there local community

City owners haven’t done any of this for the local community. They’ve done it for their own bank balance and vanity.

bf2k wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:44 pm

City owners haven’t done any of this for the local community. They’ve done it for their own bank balance and vanity.

Which as a result has dramatically improved the local community

The people and businesses in that part of Manchester sure appreciate it.

Newcastle fans are in a difficult spot because I’m not sure how easily I could just walk away from my club, or even stop attending. But surprised to see the number of people on here who would have no issue with our club being run by the Saudis if it brought success. Symptomatic of the today’s generation of plastic football fans. Anyone noticed how many people are walking around in PSG shirts these days?

And as quoon says, putting morals aside, it must be such a hollow feeling to be a fan of a club like Man City