https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59906505.amp

An investigation is looking into whether an English football team broke Covid rules - because their ground is in Wales.

In Wales, restrictions mean most matches are being played behind closed doors.

However, since rules came into force on 26 December, Chester FC has held two games with each attracting more than 2,000 fans.

The Welsh government said the club was in Wales and must follow Welsh rules.

Chester's Deva Stadium is in Flintshire, with the border between Wales and England running through the car park to the east of the stands.

Wales has been in Level Two Coronavirus restrictions since 26 December, which means all sporting events effectively have to be played behind closed doors.

The number of spectators is limited to 50, in addition to those taking part.

Stewarding and policing costs mean that it can be impractical for clubs to allow a handful of fans through turnstiles.

However, there are no crowd limits in England.

Since the rule changes in Wales, Chester FC's home ground has hosted two games in National League North (the sixth tier of English football).

The match attendance for Chester FC's home game against AFC Fylde on 28 December was reported to be 2,075 and against Telford on 2 January was 2,116.

More bizarre than when they had that deluded American owner? lol

If the ground is in Wales, it comes under Welsh legislature. It's a bit like going to Scotland and saying their laws don't apply to you because you're English.

Billy Balfour wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:44 pm

If the ground is in Wales, it comes under Welsh legislature. It's a bit like going to Scotland and saying their laws don't apply to you because you're English.

The problem is that the Deva is in England but the car park in Wales, is how I read it. The fans watched the game in England but had to congregate in Wales to park up. Just shows to show you don’t have to go far to find commerce being trumped by public health. England is the Guinea pig of Europe, testing whether we can bulldoze our way through the virus. Who knows, my main worry is who is making our decisions, we have returned to Whig / Tory politics almost un-noticed, welcome to 16-18c politics dressed in different cloths. Our lives now controlled by landed gentry and mega rich merchant traders.

That escalated quickly...

Or is it revert?

The ground is in Wales
The car park is in England and Wales

Typical Welsh ,always looking for a fight.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:58 pm

The problem is that the Deva is in England but the car park in Wales, is how I read it. The fans watched the game in England but had to congregate in Wales to park up.

Thanks for that.

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:05 pm

The ground is in Wales
The car park is in England and Wales

Oh, if that's so, then it surely comes under Welsh legislature.

Just to clarify from the BBC… Chester City’s argument:-

Chester fans have argued on social media that the border runs through the clubhouse and that the stadium has a Chester postcode.

The ground is policed by English Police from Cheshire.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:26 pm

Just to clarify from the BBC… Chester City’s argument:-

Chester fans have argued on social media that the border runs through the clubhouse and that the stadium has a Chester postcode.

The ground is policed by English Police from Cheshire.

Agreed. Although all the pitch and most if not all of the spectator area is in Wales, the office and main entrance is in England which (they claim) gives it an England address and is subject to English law. The evidence of which police force they come under might be persuasive, if not quite compelling!

I always thought the boundary ran through the ground and pitch itself.

Either way, does it really matter? Give them the benefit of the doubt, I wouldn’t have thought it’s somehow going to result in repeat offences in all the other stadia that straddle the English / Welsh border (of which there are, I’d wager, precisely none).

Bizarrely petty if this goes any further.

It’s almost as odd as the team that was looking for a goal keeper to play half a match as their usual keeper was on tag and the other goal was outside the boundary he was allowed

Pitch defo appears to be in Wales, with entrance in England.

What a daft place to build it in the first place.

Got to be said that you really couldn't make it up.

ChrisG wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:48 pm

What a daft place to build it in the first place.

Blame the Romans, they built it hence the name.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:52 pm

Blame the Romans, they built it hence the name.

Good point; if you go onto Streetview and slide it back to 55 AD you can clearly see the chariot racing track entrance by the South Stand burger van

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:52 pm

Blame the Romans, they built it hence the name.

Completely wrong, the Romans built the ground at Sealand Road.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:59 pm

Completely wrong, the Romans built the ground at Sealand Road.

Half in water, half on land is an even dafter idea than half in Wales, half in England.

Apparently the Belgium/Holland border is full of strange oddities like the village of Baarle-Nassau. Lord knows how they deal with different rules! Check the text for H16 - the border runs through a large shed and changes direction three times within the building!

posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=1715500

They just need to tell Drakeford to shove it up his @rse.

dsr wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:09 pm

Half in water, half on land is an even dafter idea than half in Wales, half in England.

Apparently the Belgium/Holland border is full of strange oddities like the village of Baarle-Nassau. Lord knows how they deal with different rules! Check the text for H16 - the border runs through a large shed and changes direction three times within the building!

posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=1715500

I seem to recall QI doing a section about it yonks ago, I think while SF was still chairing it, I remember one being a public house with two bars on either side which by moving tables and chairs from one side to the other allowed for 24 hour opening.

dsr wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:09 pm

Half in water, half on land is an even dafter idea than half in Wales, half in England.

Apparently the Belgium/Holland border is full of strange oddities like the village of Baarle-Nassau. Lord knows how they deal with different rules! Check the text for H16 - the border runs through a large shed and changes direction three times within the building!

posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=1715500

Btw the link does not work. It just opens my comment, I presume in error.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:58 pm

The problem is that the Deva is in England but the car park in Wales, is how I read it. The fans watched the game in England but had to congregate in Wales to park up. Just shows to show you don’t have to go far to find commerce being trumped by public health. England is the Guinea pig of Europe, testing whether we can bulldoze our way through the virus. Who knows, my main worry is who is making our decisions, we have returned to Whig / Tory politics almost un-noticed, welcome to 16-18c politics dressed in different cloths. Our lives now controlled by landed gentry and mega rich merchant traders.

Or as Mark Steny said last night by a Trendy, Metro, Green Elite.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:30 pm

Or as Mark Steny said last night by a Trendy, Metro, Green Elite.

Well yes, there is that aspect to it all. Sadly, East Lancs seemed to be determined to make our part of the world urban sprawl as fast as possible, twenty odd years later.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:25 pm

Btw the link does not work. It just opens my comment, I presume in error.

You presume correctly. Thanks.

Try this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Nassau

Makes you wonder how they went about getting planning permission for the car park / entrance with them being split between two countries.

Regarding the Dutch / German border, I went to Rossendale's twin town Bocholt as a younster from Acc/Ross College. Closeby is a town called Dinxperlo which is right on the border and I remember being on a surburban street, houses on both sides, with the border running down the middle of the street. Street lights on either side were completely different!

Here it is.... black line is the border....

Here we go.....

LHS of street - Netherlands
RHS - Germany

The white lines are even different!!

Alanstevensonsgloves wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:11 pm

Here we go.....

LHS of street - Netherlands
RHS - Germany

The white lines are even different!!

It'd be exciting if one drove on the left and the other on the right.

Have all the Welsh clubs been playing behind closed doors then?

As I live in Chester we were discussing this very issue and IMHO Chester FC have not done anything wrong. The current ground is undoubtedly split between the two countries but the original Sealand Road was in England and they play in an English League. Chester Constabularly police the games and as such they should follow English rules. If the Welsh see fit to make an issue of this we should re-introduce an old medieval law that rules that any Welshman found within the city walls after midnight, can be legally shot with a crossbow. (A copy of this law can be found in the "The Boot" which is an old pub on Eastgate Row) This should help if they play Wrexham in the near future
A similar situation exists at Llanymynech Golf Club where you can tee off in one country and putt out in the other. Lovely course BTW and well worth a visit if you're in the area.

[url]https://www.llanymynechgolfclub.co.uk//url]

It's in England no case to answer, the border runs along the rear of the east stand with the pitch located over the border in Flintshire. The ground's address is officially in England because of the location of the club's offices.

I have sympathy with them. But you'd have thought they'd have clarified it first to avoid this entirely predictable mess

CaptJohn wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:14 pm

As I live in Chester we were discussing this very issue and IMHO Chester FC have not done anything wrong. The current ground is undoubtedly split between the two countries but the original Sealand Road was in England and they play in an English League. Chester Constabularly police the games and as such they should follow English rules. If the Welsh see fit to make an issue of this we should re-introduce an old medieval law that rules that any Welshman found within the city walls after midnight, can be legally shot with a crossbow. (A copy of this law can be found in the "The Boot" which is an old pub on Eastgate Row) This should help if they play Wrexham in the near future
A similar situation exists at Llanymynech Golf Club where you can tee off in one country and putt out in the other. Lovely course BTW and well worth a visit if you're in the area.

[url]https://www.llanymynechgolfclub.co.uk//url]

Hello John.

Given you live in Chester I was going to ask, but I've googled it and it's true.

The fact that Chester town hall clock tower has 4 faces. However, the west face ( the one facing Wales) is the only one left blank, without a clock. The belief is that people of Chester " wouldnt give the Welsh the time of day!!"

Perhaps Kim Jong Drakeford knows about what the people of Chester think of his lot and is a bit miffed !

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:10 pm

I have sympathy with them. But you'd have thought they'd have clarified it first to avoid this entirely predictable mess

The one thing they wouldn't want to do is to ask the question. If they don't ask, they are far less likely to be told they can't do it.

If it was a deliberate decision rather than an oversight, then they deserve any punishment they receive

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:58 pm

The problem is that the Deva is in England but the car park in Wales, is how I read it.

May I ask where you read that? I am struggling to glean that from both the OP and the article. Seems clear to me, the ground is in Wales. The car park is in England.

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:13 pm

If it was a deliberate decision rather than an oversight, then they deserve any punishment they receive

How much would it cost to clarify it? I suspect this is something that could only be decided in court, on the specific facts of this case. Which police admin they use won't be conclusive. Who they pay rates to won't be conclusive. There will be other aspects of life that may have an Englisdh lean or a Welsh lean - they won't be conclusive. There will be no single agency they could turn to to get a definitive, unquestioned answer; so in their position, I would take my own view of what is best and go with that.

It's the same in my field of accountancy, actually. In most cases, the rules are clear. Occasionally, the rules (for a particular case or in general) are vague or open to interpretation or even have been judged both ways by HMRC. In those cases, what am I to do? Take the view that gives my clients the best results, of course. If we aren't sure, we err on the side of "what's best for us". Bound to.

CaptJohn wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:14 pm

As I live in Chester we were discussing this very issue and IMHO Chester FC have not done anything wrong. The current ground is undoubtedly split between the two countries but the original Sealand Road was in England and they play in an English League. Chester Constabularly police the games and as such they should follow English rules. If the Welsh see fit to make an issue of this we should re-introduce an old medieval law that rules that any Welshman found within the city walls after midnight, can be legally shot with a crossbow. (A copy of this law can be found in the "The Boot" which is an old pub on Eastgate Row) This should help if they play Wrexham in the near future
A similar situation exists at Llanymynech Golf Club where you can tee off in one country and putt out in the other. Lovely course BTW and well worth a visit if you're in the area.

[url]https://www.llanymynechgolfclub.co.uk//url]

I was living in Chester as a student in the late 90's. I won't forget getting caught up in the fighting when they played Wrexham in the FA Cup. Someone kindly uploaded the practicalities of the night on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQtHl3398YE

groove wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:38 pm

Have all the Welsh clubs been playing behind closed doors then?

Non of them have played at home yet. Newport play Salford this weekend. Crowd limit 50

bobinho wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:21 pm

May I ask where you read that? I am struggling to glean that from both the OP and the article. Seems clear to me, the ground is in Wales. The car park is in England.

The postcode is in the clubhouse, therefore the ground is registered as in England and policed by Cheshire police.

Postcode is irrelevant isn’t it? What does the border signify?