Alan Nixon on ALK, worrying

[Lancasterclaret]

Does the exact amount matter? We can speculate the amount based on reports but you're gonna refuse to accept those figures to argue for the sake of it. So let's stick to the facts, debt is owed to Garlick and MSD.

Yes

Yes they do

Feel free to provide the facts

[ClaretPete001]

Potentially it hasn't helped though, because the club has had to put money aside to pay for the rebate instead of spending on players etc.

It's all linked together.

You seem to be arguing against yourself. The risk of unforeseen circumstances is why you don't want leveraged buyouts not a j.ustification for why they can go wrong. That is the point of why people are concerned.

[KRBFC]

No, I'm asking you for the full facts.
What you're doing now is giving partial facts because that's all you've got and you're desperately clinging onto it.

If you're going to call me out and claim I know the square root of naff all about what's going on I expect you to have the full information to hand.

You haven't got anything, unsurprisingly, so here's an idea, stop trying to call me out with your sly little digs at me, you're nowhere near clued up enough to take me on.

I never said you know the square root of naff all? you know the debt exists like I do and you're more than capable of fag packet maths and coming up with a number.

You want to argue over the exact total, penny for penny, so I won't attempt to provide that figure to give you the satisfaction of further squabbling over something relatively insignificant.

Fans are worried by the fact debt is there, the stories coming out aren't good, half of our squad will need replacing in 6 months, we're bottom of the league and have yet to replace our main striker. Squabbling with me about an exact figure adds absolutely nothing to this topic but bore everyone to death.

[Lancasterclaret]

I never said you know the square root of naff all? you know the debt exists like I do and you're more than capable of fag packet maths and coming up with a number.

You want to argue over the exact total, penny for penny, so I won't attempt to provide that figure to give you the satisfaction of further squabbling over something relatively insignificant.

Fans are worried by the fact debt is there, the stories coming out aren't good, half of our squad will need replacing in 6 months, we're bottom of the league and have yet to replace our main striker. Squabbling with me about an exact figure adds absolutely nothing to this topic but bore everyone to death.

Genius

Even by your laughable standards

[Lancasterclaret]

There are people on here who clearly know about finances and back it up, and there are people on here who don't have a clue, so only really watch these threads until someone comes on who knows what they are talking about, and there are those who are experts in their own mind and want to tell everybody else about their, er, "unique" expertise.

Its very frustrating when you want to read actual facts, or opinions from actual experts

[KRBFC]

Genius

Even by your laughable standards

Why are you quoting me, begging for my attention

There's plenty of other worried fans on here, why did you single me out?

I said nothing controversial and nothing worth responding to

I know your game, you want me to provide an estimate so you can continue to argue penny for penny, tit for tat.

[BurnleyFC]

A painful lesson for the sizable, vocal group who were ungrateful for what they had when the club was well run.

Don’t kid yourself that Charlatan Mike wasn’t always going to cash in and sell us down the river.

[Lancasterclaret]

Why are you quoting me, begging for my attention

There's plenty of other worried fans on here, why did you single me out?

I said nothing controversial and nothing worth responding to

I know your game, you want me to provide an estimate so you can continue to argue penny for penny, tit for tat.

Because you are someone who has a track record of talking utter s**te. Thats your MO mate, not mine!

I worry about the debt but I also counter balance that with the actual evidence of what has been done, and I refuse to panic or get more than slightly worried until I see where we are in terms of signings on Feb 1st.

For example, in todays newspapers, you have the Sun report (which Alan Nixon very quickly distanced himself from) and the Express report on us putting in a bid for Azmoun of St Petersburg.

Both could be true, both might not be true, but if we were in as much c**p as the Sun tried to imply, then there would be a lot more, and crucially, not just rehashing stuff we already know

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I never said you know the square root of naff all? you know the debt exists like I do and you're more than capable of fag packet maths and coming up with a number.

You want to argue over the exact total, penny for penny, so I won't attempt to provide that figure to give you the satisfaction of further squabbling over something relatively insignificant.

Fans are worried by the fact debt is there, the stories coming out aren't good, half of our squad will need replacing in 6 months, we're bottom of the league and have yet to replace our main striker. Squabbling with me about an exact figure adds absolutely nothing to this topic but bore everyone to death.

So we've established you have nothing beyond a debt existing, which I agree with.

Stop digging me out then in the future, because it isn't even difficult to make you show yourself up.

Have a good day.

Screenshot_20220121-121909~2.png (87.97 KiB) Viewed 1908 times

[Devils_Advocate]

There are people on here who clearly know about finances and back it up, and there are people on here who don't have a clue, so only really watch these threads until someone comes on who knows what they are talking about, and there are those who are experts in their own mind and want to tell everybody else about their, er, "unique" expertise.

Its very frustrating when you want to read actual facts, or opinions from actual experts

Principle of this point is spot on but the trouble is there are a quite few posters who have good knowledge about finances but start with a predetermined ideological view and then use their expertise to support their view regardless of the wider facts.

Paul Waine is the perfect example of this and on the other side of the discussion you have someone like DSR. Both these are able to talk well around finances but I would never rely on anything they say on this as on this subject I think they are somewhat disingenuous

[Lancasterclaret]

Principle of this point is spot on but the trouble is there are a quite few posters who have good knowledge about finances but start with a predetermined ideological view and then use their expertise to support their view regardless of the wider facts.

Paul Waine is the perfect example of this and on the other side of the discussion you have someone like DSR. Both these are able to talk well around finances but I would never rely on anything they say on this as on this subject I think they are somewhat disingenuous

Defo

I disagree with DSR on absolutely everything but we were both in full agreement about the direction of the club under Garlick (ie it was safe and boring)

He's a lot more negative than me about it now, and there is no doubt that the leveraged buy out is less than ideal

I was thinking of other posters though tbf and one (at least) doesn't post anymore

[Devils_Advocate]

Defo

I disagree with DSR on absolutely everything but we were both in full agreement about the direction of the club under Garlick (ie it was safe and boring)

He's a lot more negative than me about it now, and there is no doubt that the leveraged buy out is less than ideal

I was thinking of other posters though tbf and one (at least) doesn't post anymore

My opinions on this have been very much aligned with DSR but it doesnt stop the fact that when he talks about it he conveniently ignores certain things and focuses and goes over the top on other things in order to best support is view (rather than maybe adapt some of his thinking).

There are a good few posters with good knowledge and who you can see are taking there position on the facts and are open to changing their opinion as circumstances changed and new info comes out

[jedi_master]

Lancaster,

You say you’ll judge the clubs status/financial well-being on our transfer activity this window. Whilst I understand the sentiment, do you not feel that is largely irrelevant to the long-term concerns within the article?

Trying to sign players to desperately hope we stay up so that the potential (POTENTIAL - Note I say that, until it happens or doesn’t, it’s hearsay but the noises continue to get louder from both the press and amongst the fanbase) financial Armageddon doesn’t arrive is just that - desperate. I don’t see it as anything other than a last gasp effort to avoid the relegation. It certainly wouldn’t make me comfortable about our clubs financial position if we spend (example) £40m in the next week on three players. In fact, it would worry me more. I’d far rather see loans with options to buy if we stay up - though I appreciate they’re difficult deals to do.

You’re absolutely right to say the facts aren’t there r.e debt level, for that all anyone can do is speculate. I’m not a finance guy, not my area of business, so nothing I put is anything other than my opinion based on what I hear and read. The ‘facts’ as I understand them (or what I deem them to be, is perhaps better to say) are:

- The MSD loan is noted to be £60m (we do not know the interest rate, the repayment schedule or where we are in repayment on this)

- A large sum is still owed to our former owners (no point guessing here, but The Sun article today said £102m outstanding to them. I doubt this and also you’d hope these shareholders have the club at heart and wouldn’t be in a rush to claw this back)

- We have 10 players out of contract this summer, some of which we will happily wave bye to, some will be massive losses.

- The remaining squad is largely comprised of aging players lacking any value to sell on - and on high wages (exceptions being McNeil, Pope, Taylor, Cornet, Brownhill, Roberts and Collins).

Taking all of this on board, my personal concern is how we expect to repay that MSD loan (and other debts) any other way than selling our saleable assets as well as using our parachute money. My concern then would be how do we build a new squad to replace those players sold as well as the 10 leaving when our money has already been spent?

Again - I confess - MASS conjecture in my post, and the repayment schedule from MSD could assuage my fears if we knew it, but we don’t. When I see what’s happening at Derby County who also have a loan with MSD, and then we get repeat articles and local hearsay buzzing around the club it worries people. I think that’s a reasonable stance to have right now.

Nobody knows what the future holds, we all want to stay up and are all thinking with the clubs best interests at heart. Apologies for the feature length post - and I’m not here to argue with anyone, it’s just my personal opinion on the ‘situation’ as it stands.

[KRBFC]

Because you are someone who has a track record of talking utter s**te. Thats your MO mate, not mine!

I worry about the debt but I also counter balance that with the actual evidence of what has been done, and I refuse to panic or get more than slightly worried until I see where we are in terms of signings on Feb 1st.

For example, in todays newspapers, you have the Sun report (which Alan Nixon very quickly distanced himself from) and the Express report on us putting in a bid for Azmoun of St Petersburg.

Both could be true, both might not be true, but if we were in as much c**p as the Sun tried to imply, then there would be a lot more, and crucially, not just rehashing stuff we already know

I said nothing of note on here worthy of a response, I never claimed to be any expert, I have no inside scoop, I rely on others to provide me with facts when it comes to football finance.

The reports around the deal at the time I felt was worrying for the future of my club, we're bottom of the league with further worrying reports coming out, we haven't replaced Wood yet, Still no clarity on how those debts are financed upon relegation meaning signings by Feb 1st and relegation could provide even more catastrophic than no signings and relegation.

50+ fans have expressed a similar worried view on this topic but for some reason I'm the target for argument?

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Can we just agree Simon Jordan has a very dodgy business history, you only have to look at the facts but suddenly a few posters on here want to use him & talksport as the gospel on how to run a football club & finance. We have owners now who are professional financiers & a mass of experience within the finance world & contacts that would bring, a football finance expert has publicly said the deal is a good deal, the previous owners & new owners have publicly said all payments have been made & have met dead lines. Yet still a few posters on here are saying its incorrect & believing stories that presumed journalists have removed their names from. Make you’re own minds up on the reasons they refuse to believe the facts, i have………….

[LaLigaClaret]

In a transfer window where not much is happening anywhere in the PL except for the obsession with Newcastle as they have money to splash up the wall and Villa buying more players as the ones they bought in the last window haven't worked the journo's are bored so are looking to create stories. A hardly known journo with hardly any followers and apparently little in the way of useful and accurate contacts in the football world dribbles out a story previously attributed to someone else which is now disowned by that someone else. Not really much to go on. As for the payments to the previous owners being delayed this seems sensible to help the club out to buy new players to try and prevent relegation. Clearly if the club retains money inside the club that was meant to be leaving the club to make payments to the previous owners then this gives the club a better chance to buy players. As for wanting new investors this is pretty much par for the course for all but the richest teams with billionaire benefactors, Everything else is lazy journalism and speculation. Wait and see is the approach needed.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Presumably when the deal was signed it was under the proviso that ALK had sounded out future investment which for whatever reason hasn’t materialised yet.

Find the timing of this and yesterdays story with just over a week of the transfer window left and us sitting bottom of the league a touch suspicious.

[KRBFC]

I'd understand posters begging for my attention if I said something controversial or wrong but even when I offer the same worried majority feeling off the back of an article, I'm still the target for tit for tat bs.

[Lowbankclaret]

Wow, that’s gone well this morning. First item on my Facebook so I step into UTC and it’s already 4 pages long and I read about 95% of it sadly.
Mike Ashley has been mentioned, he is an astute business man. derby is a far better bet than us. Much bigger fan base and city to draw revenue from. It has great conference centres etc that can bring in needed revenue through the week. I don’t see him riding to our rescue any time soon.
Lots of talk and debate about the size of the debt, think we should all agree it’s massive for a club of our size. I do believe we are in real trouble, but not as much trouble as Derby for now.

[Spijed]

.....

[Lancasterclaret]

Lancaster,

You say you’ll judge the clubs status/financial well-being on our transfer activity this window. Whilst I understand the sentiment, do you not feel that is largely irrelevant to the long-term concerns within the article?

Trying to sign players to desperately hope we stay up so that the potential (POTENTIAL - Note I say that, until it happens or doesn’t, it’s hearsay but the noises continue to get louder from both the press and amongst the fanbase) financial Armageddon doesn’t arrive is just that - desperate. I don’t see it as anything other than a last gasp effort to avoid the relegation. It certainly wouldn’t make me comfortable about our clubs financial position if we spend (example) £40m in the next week on three players. In fact, it would worry me more. I’d far rather see loans with options to buy if we stay up - though I appreciate they’re difficult deals to do.

You’re absolutely right to say the facts aren’t there r.e debt level, for that all anyone can do is speculate. I’m not a finance guy, not my area of business, so nothing I put is anything other than my opinion based on what I hear and read. The ‘facts’ as I understand them (or what I deem them to be, is perhaps better to say) are:

- The MSD loan is noted to be £60m (we do not know the interest rate, the repayment schedule or where we are in repayment on this)

- A large sum is still owed to our former owners (no point guessing here, but The Sun article today said £102m outstanding to them. I doubt this and also you’d hope these shareholders have the club at heart and wouldn’t be in a rush to claw this back)

- We have 10 players out of contract this summer, some of which we will happily wave bye to, some will be massive losses.

- The remaining squad is largely comprised of aging players lacking any value to sell on - and on high wages (exceptions being McNeil, Pope, Taylor, Cornet, Brownhill, Roberts and Collins).

Taking all of this on board, my personal concern is how we expect to repay that MSD loan (and other debts) any other way than selling our saleable assets as well as using our parachute money. My concern then would be how do we build a new squad to replace those players sold as well as the 10 leaving when our money has already been spent?

Again - I confess - MASS conjecture in my post, and the repayment schedule from MSD could assuage my fears if we knew it, but we don’t. When I see what’s happening at Derby County who also have a loan with MSD, and then we get repeat articles and local hearsay buzzing around the club it worries people. I think that’s a reasonable stance to have right now.

Nobody knows what the future holds, we all want to stay up and are all thinking with the clubs best interests at heart. Apologies for the feature length post - and I’m not here to argue with anyone, it’s just my personal opinion on the ‘situation’ as it stands.

Argh, where to start?

No one is saying that the leveraged buy out is anything but worrying, but Pace isn't the Venkys, he must have known that relegation was a possibility every season, and he must have factored that into his calculations (he might not have, but nothing suggests he hasn't)

The out of contract players situation certainly isn't his or ALK fault, its the fault of the strategy that we employed (a lot of it to be fair forced on to us by COVID but certainly dating before that as well) of keeping players rather than selling when they were at their peak. That was always going to end up with us having an ageing (but still capable) squad that would need a rather major restructuring.

Its far from ideal, but with the exception of Ben Mee, I wouldn't resign any of them. certainly if we get relegated.

And you are correct, its conjecture about MSD (I heard that is was £5 million a season, but I might well be wrong, but that isn't anything to worry about)

And the comparison with Derby is a bit of a reach as well, they are in deep s**t because the owner decided to spend money they haven't got for years

A better comparison would be Swansea (still not ideal as they are in trouble as well, but they are run as a business and not in danger of shutting down)

I appreciate that you've called it your opinion, and I share some of your concerns, but we really can't go all in with how bad it might be (and it might be) when you look at the actual facts

Namely

We've had our best transfer window in years under ALK
We've clearly decided to invest in a different model of player (as highlighted more than once by the manager) which bodes well
Pace, Garlick and John B have said there is nothing to worry about

And the reason I'm saying Feb 1st is the key is because it is.

If we don't sign anyone, then there is clearly a major asset stripping operation under way and we are f**ked

Cheers for the constructive reply btw

[Ric_C]

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty depressed about Burnley at the moment. I've seen us win once in the flesh coming up to 2 years in February (I'm a season ticket holder). All news about the club seems to be negative. The only bright spark has been Cornet, but of course he's been injured and unavailable. I'm just desperate for a glimmer of hope, either with a couple of wins and a couple of decent signings, it's not much to ask is it?

[Lancasterclaret]

I'd understand posters begging for my attention if I said something controversial or wrong but even when I offer the same worried majority feeling off the back of an article, I'm still the target for tit for tat bs.

2nd time you've said I'm begging for your attention

I'll just spell it out for you

When posters talk crap and pretend they know stuff they don't, I tend to react and post that they are talking crap and pretending to know stuff they don't

I wish it was just you mate I really do!

[Lancasterclaret]

My opinions on this have been very much aligned with DSR but it doesnt stop the fact that when he talks about it he conveniently ignores certain things and focuses and goes over the top on other things in order to best support is view (rather than maybe adapt some of his thinking).

There are a good few posters with good knowledge and who you can see are taking there position on the facts and are open to changing their opinion as circumstances changed and new info comes out

Oh no doubt

More of posters who know what they are talking about, much less of those that don't!

[Bordeauxclaret]

Matchday revenue was slashed.
Due to the number of televised games bring reduced there were/are rebates to be paid.

Both attributable to Covid and both have caused an issue with the club's income.

The number of televised games didn’t reduce?
In fact they increased significantly?

[ClaretPete001]

Argh, where to start?

No one is saying that the leveraged buy out is anything but worrying, but Pace isn't the Venkys, he must have known that relegation was a possibility every season, and he must have factored that into his calculations (he might not have, but nothing suggests he hasn't)

Blimey Lancaster VH Holdings is a 1.5 billion dollar company - this is ALKs web site https://alkcapital.com/

[Jakubclaret]

Oh no doubt

More of posters who know what they are talking about, much less of those that don't!

Agree but I’ll miss you when you are gone

[Lancasterclaret]

Blimey Lancaster VH Holdings is a 1.5 billion dollar company - this is ALKs web site https://alkcapital.com/

And?

Venkys famously didn't realise you could get relegated when they took over (to all accounts)

They are doing an excellent job these days with Rovers, but its costing them a small fortune, and fair play to them for not pulling out when they could have and completely finishing them

My point is that Pace must have known the relegation consequences, and I'm 100% sure that he and Garlick must have talked about it during the protracted selling process

[daveisaclaret]

No one is saying that the leveraged buy out is anything but worrying, but Pace isn't the Venkys, he must have known that relegation was a possibility every season, and he must have factored that into his calculations (he might not have, but nothing suggests he hasn't)

He has factored the risk of relegation into his calculations. He's put none of his own money into the club, risked nothing, and can walk away with no consequences.

[jedi_master]

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty depressed about Burnley at the moment. I've seen us win once in the flesh coming up to 2 years in February (I'm a season ticket holder). All news about the club seems to be negative. The only bright spark has been Cornet, but of course he's been injured and unavailable. I'm just desperate for a glimmer of hope, either with a couple of wins and a couple of decent signings, it's not much to ask is it?

Think everyone feels the same. I haven’t seen Burnley win at home (live) since 2020.

[Lancasterclaret]

He has factored the risk of relegation into his calculations. He's put none of his own money into the club, risked nothing, and can walk away with no consequences.

Then we are in the championship under Garlick I presume? (not too sure about that bit)

I'm pretty sure if we get relegated it won't be because of the ALK takeover

It will because of a combination of stuff, the chief one being the lack of investment in the playing squad over numerous transfer windows

[RVclaret]

He has factored the risk of relegation into his calculations. He's put none of his own money into the club, risked nothing, and can walk away with no consequences.

How do you know he's put none of his own money in? In fact, I'd probably bet he's put a significant chunk of his own net wealth into this project. ALK is his company, it's believed they put in 15m, it's run by him and one or two others. It's normal with private equity that they use their own funds initially.

[Lancasterclaret]

Think everyone feels the same. I haven’t seen Burnley win at home (live) since 2020.

Everyone does feel the same sadly

Just want to watch us play

[Jakubclaret]

Absolutely.

The warning signs were there that evening when we first got wind of the purchase being completed and that massive loan being immediately put on us. As a fan, you always want whats happening at your club to be for the best and we were all frustrated with Garlick and ready for a change. We all had to be optimistic.

Looking back though with hindsight, it always seemed not quite right. Little things like Alan Pace's LinkedIn profile, ALK's substandard website, the AI Scout app having about a thousand downloads yet being talked up to high heaven. Everything had a massive air of 'amateur' about it from the get-go if we are being absolutely honest with ourselves.

People can talk about figures & what’s happened previously arriving where we are today I think it’s more helpful & constructive to talk about the future & here & now without dwelling negatively, the club is well & truly in the crap & that’s undeniable, far too many people in my view are sticking their heads in the sand & hoping the problems will disappear or trivialising the state of affairs without fully understanding the severity.

[daveisaclaret]

Then we are in the championship under Garlick I presume? (not too sure about that bit)

I'm pretty sure if we get relegated it won't be because of the ALK takeover

It will because of a combination of stuff, the chief one being the lack of investment in the playing squad over numerous transfer windows

I think so yes LC. I don't think either being in the championship or being owned by Garlick again are inherently a bad thing (depending on the Dyche-Garlick relationship which was clearly bad but that isn't set in stone), and I agree the relegation won't be due to the takeover. The bad thing is the club will have the debt to MSD with absolutely nothing to show for it.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think so yes LC. I don't think either being in the championship or being owned by Garlick again are inherently a bad thing (depending on the Dyche-Garlick relationship which was clearly bad but that isn't set in stone), and I agree the relegation won't be due to the takeover. The bad thing is the club will have the debt to MSD with absolutely nothing to show for it.

Oh, its not good dave, I'm 100% not saying its good

But Garlick had clearly had enough, and sold it to the person who wasn't completely dodgy as opposed to the person who was represented by someone well dodgy

I'm not going to say "Exciting times" or anything like that, but I'm also fairly confident that we aren't in as bad a position as some of the posters seem determined to put us into

[KRBFC]

2nd time you've said I'm begging for your attention

I'll just spell it out for you

When posters talk crap and pretend they know stuff they don't, I tend to react and post that they are talking crap and pretending to know stuff they don't

I wish it was just you mate I really do!

Where did I pretend to know stuff? I stated the simple fact, there is debt owed to MSD and Garlick. You can pretend that's crap but it's really not, it's reality.

[Dark Cloud]

I'm starting to feel like Mike G did both the right thing and the wrong thing at the same time. It was right to sell the club on since our momentum was stalling, our income was getting up there with outgoings, our profitability was dropping and we needed substantial investment in the squad and he didn't have the personal finances to be a "sugar daddy". He recognised we needed to go to the next level. The trouble is, it SEEMS he may have had an extremely short queue of seriously interested buyers and in the end he had to choose ALK over that dodgy Egyptian guy, but tbh neither of them have what it takes or what we desperately needed. Right idea to sell, wrong people to sell it to. Maybe.

[dandeclaret]

Then we are in the championship under Garlick I presume? (not too sure about that bit)

I'm pretty sure if we get relegated it won't be because of the ALK takeover

It will because of a combination of stuff, the chief one being the lack of investment in the playing squad over numerous transfer windows

The chief one being an unwillingness to dive into the overspend debt model of the premier league? Where clubs chase to compete with the wealth of whole countries?

[JohnMcGreal]

I'm not going to say "Exciting times" or anything like that, but I'm also fairly confident that we aren't in as bad a position as some of the posters seem determined to put us into

Will relegation to the Championship (a fairly likely scenario at this stage) be anything but a financial disaster for the club?

[Bordeauxclaret]

Let’s not rewrite history and pretend everyone was demanding we spend ridiculous amounts of money under Garlick.

There was a huge middle ground between taking that approach and the approach we actually did that the vast majority were in.

[Jamesy]

I'd understand posters begging for my attention if I said something controversial or wrong but even when I offer the same worried majority feeling off the back of an article, I'm still the target for tit for tat bs.

To be fair folks, he has got a point. Of all the posters on this board I think he is the one who gets the most grief, most times unwarranted.

[jedi_master]

Let’s not rewrite history and pretend everyone was demanding we spend ridiculous amounts of money under Garlick.

There was a huge middle ground between taking that approach and the approach we actually did that the vast majority were in.

Yes I feel that’s very fair. Everyone respected Garlick’s prudent management, however it needed to return to what it had been in the 15-18 era (I.e, Keane out/Tarky in, Gray out/Wood in) where we had a clear succession plan in place, but I don’t think anyone expected anything beyond that. The only issue with Garlick for myself was the situation with Dyche which seemed destined to end with one of them leaving.

[bfcjg]

Just wait while Charles is monarch investors will come flooding in as we will have A Longsider King.
That's my input to this debate, I reckon just see what unfolds these next few weeks.

[Lancasterclaret]

The chief one being an unwillingness to dive into the overspend debt model of the premier league? Where clubs chase to compete with the wealth of whole countries?

Hold your horses there Dan, no one was more supportive of Garlick and his model on here than me

I've always said on here that the challenge we've always had is the balance between the short term aim (surviving every year) and the long term aim (growing the squad, the club and all the other stuff).

We've been very good at the short term aim and the long term aim at times, but the last three years (inc this one) have been a real struggle and I though I think COVID is a huge factor, there is more we could have done (certainly with regards to overseas signings)

But I must stress that I'm not remotely interested in going down the route you describe!

[Lancasterclaret]

Will relegation to the Championship (a fairly likely scenario at this stage) be anything but a financial disaster for the club?

It will be a financial disaster whenever it happens John

The imbalance is huge, and there is very little you can do to counter balance that while remaining competitive in the premier league

Dyche and the players have managed a minor miracle keeping us up with the investment we've allowed (and I fully appreciate that might well have been the maximum we could afford, though I think there was scope for more)

[joey13]

When is the Penny going to drop for some people , probably never, it beggars belief .

[Jakubclaret]

To be fair folks, he has got a point. Of all the posters on this board I think he is the one who gets the most grief, most times unwarranted.

It’s all too easy to become a target when extreme opinions are at play & find yourself easily overwhelmed & outnumbered, some people fully understand what’s going on, some people kind of understand what’s going on & some people don’t have a clue but pretend to, whilst people continue to ignore what’s happening in front of their eyes sadly more & more people will continue to disagree.

[ClaretPete001]

And?

Venkys famously didn't realise you could get relegated when they took over (to all accounts)

They are doing an excellent job these days with Rovers, but its costing them a small fortune, and fair play to them for not pulling out when they could have and completely finishing them

My point is that Pace must have known the relegation consequences, and I'm 100% sure that he and Garlick must have talked about it during the protracted selling process

I know but you seem to be arguing against your own point. Let's put aside the idea that the Venky's are fools VH Holdings is a massive well established company with deep pockets and a successful track record of running business across South Asia. However, they stepped outside of their geographical location and business model and it has required those deep pockets to keep things afloat.

You can conjecture on the assets available to ALK but there seems to be little evidence of any.

[KRBFC]

Yes I feel that’s very fair. Everyone respected Garlick’s prudent management, however it needed to return to what it had been in the 15-18 era (I.e, Keane out/Tarky in, Gray out/Wood in) where we had a clear succession plan in place, but I don’t think anyone expected anything beyond that. The only issue with Garlick for myself was the situation with Dyche which seemed destined to end with one of them leaving.

I think Garlick saw some poor recruitment and lost full trust in Dyche to spend, wasn't long after CT was claiming Garlick was trying to sign Harry Wilson and Dyche didn't want him. I don't know the exact figures but I'd guess Gibson, Vydra and Hart cost the club a pretty penny and we got barely any return out of them.

It would be fascinating to read a book by Garlick where he doesn't hold back and spills the tea, there must have been some trigger for him to suddenly freeze all support of Dyche.