Probably a clear simple explanation that I am missing but there were two incidents then within that game that I would have classed as clear and obvious errors by the ref.

1) ?Foul? on Saka on the edge of the box. McNeil clearly got the ball but they still got the free kick??

2) Late in the game - McNeil 1:1 and takes a shot, Arsenal keeper clearly gets a touch. No corner.


Both these decisions were clear and obvious and could have been game changing. Why does VAR not apply to these decisions yet we have to spend ridiculous amounts of time reviewing whether someones finger nail is on/off side?

I still wish they'd just scrap it completely.

If they checked everything the game would last about 4 hours.

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:13 pm

If they checked everything the game would last about 4 hours.

It doesn't already?

VAR shouldn't have been needed for the corner wd should have had.
Think everyone in the ground saw it but the Ref.

It'd just give them more opportunities to get things wrong.

VAR should be a good leveller....

VAR should be effectively managed....

VAR should work....

Should....

Brilliant idea in principle. Poorly executed in this country. In the WC it was much more like what it should have been.

Thay don't check those things. Have you been asleep since it came in?
Possible red
Possible penalty/no penalty
Possible offside in build up to goal
Possible foul in build up to goal.

That's it

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:13 pm

If they checked everything the game would last about 4 hours.

When it's 0-0 at the Emirates with 4 minutes to go, and i'm pacing up and down in the garage, thats exactly what it felt like.

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:03 pm

Probably a clear simple explanation that I am missing but there were two incidents then within that game that I would have classed as clear and obvious errors by the ref.

1) ?Foul? on Saka on the edge of the box. McNeil clearly got the ball but they still got the free kick??

2) Late in the game - McNeil 1:1 and takes a shot, Arsenal keeper clearly gets a touch. No corner.


Both these decisions were clear and obvious and could have been game changing. Why does VAR not apply to these decisions yet we have to spend ridiculous amounts of time reviewing whether someones finger nail is on/off side?

NOt the remit of VAR, however, you are correct on both counts but, as had clearly been seen during the game, we weren't going to get many decisions. Arsenal got two corners when the first ball through should have been flagged offside for the player who touched it, however, with the modern trend of not flagging untill the move has broken down, the flag was not raised. Had Arsenal scored from either attack then VAR wouls have confirmed that there was offside.
Twice the ball came off Arsenal players but they got the throw in ---all the incidents mentioned were the same AR!

How was Martinelli not booked for a similar foul to which one of our lads received a caution? Add to that, how he ploughed into the back of Roberts who was defending and was in the air and Martinelli hit him into the post ---the ref gave a corner!

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:22 pm

Arsenal got two corners when the first ball through should have been flagged offside for the player who touched it, however, with the modern trend of not flagging untill the move has broken down, the flag was not raised. Had Arsenal scored from either attack then VAR wouls have confirmed that there was offside.

If the linesman didn't flag, then the linesman believed the man was onside. He might have been wrong, but that was his belief.

When the linesman believes there was offside but it was close, he waits until the ball is somewhere safe before flagging, except where there is advantage to the defending side or perhaps when it goes out for a goal kick that makes no difference, and then flagging for offside wouldn't be helpful.

I think Westy would of been in trouble , if var had told to the ref to check his booking .

BabylonClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:19 pm

Thay don't check those things. Have you been asleep since it came in?
Possible red
Possible penalty/no penalty
Possible offside in build up to goal
Possible foul in build up to goal.

That's it

Sounds simple but how does the 'clear and obvious error' come into it?

Good grief I've just logged in to find we've got a brilliant point at Arsenal, and somebody is moaning about 2 minor incidents not being checked by VAR, does the OP actually understand the purpose of Var?

Speaking of........have you seen the Liverpool penalty? One of the worst i've ever seen.

Good grief - I just watched us get a brilliant point at Arsenal but I decided to discuss the match and decisions which could have affected it. - Sorry for that.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:45 pm

does the OP actually understand the purpose of Var?

No not really? - That's why I asked. It confuses the hell out of me

Taffy on the wing wrote:

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:45 pm

Speaking of........have you seen the Liverpool penalty? One of the worst i've ever seen.

we would not have got that given in a million years. he lost control of the ball then ran into the keeper. a disgraceful decision. would love to understand why the ref gave it

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:49 pm

No not really? - That's why I asked. It confuses the hell out of me

I believe they generally only check.

Goals
Penalties
Potential red cards

They certainly aren't going to intervene over every foul awarded as that would be ridiculous.

Now if your argument is that Arsenal could have scored from the said FK, then yes I can appreciate that stance.

Equally you could argue the same case for our late corner which wasn't given, but I thought most fans wanted less VAR involvement not more.

And ultimately neither incident led to anything so they evened themselves out in the end.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:56 pm

And ultimately neither incident led to anything so they evened themselves out in the end.

OK Tiger - so had Saka scored from his "foul" and subsequent FREE kick on the edge of the box or had Arsenal gone down the other end and scored after we should have had a CLEAR corner would you have been so relaxed about our dissapointing defeat?

We were superb but could have been robbed in typical Arsenal fashion by poor decisions.

Yet week on week we see endless amounts of time being taken up by a hundred camera angles on whether someone is offside by a whisker or not yet these decisions are equally impacting on the game.

Wait 'til you all see the Liverpool penalty award at Palarse... now THAT'S bad.

J,ust go back,to Arsenal home game this season,Ramsdale ,Vydra,Ref gave the PENALTY,ball on the spot,OVER RULED BY VAR,Nothing changes for US,UTC.

Just seen the Liverpool “penalty”! just wow! Kevin Friend & Craig Pawson should both be sacked immediately. As for VAR, please, let’s just get rid of it. It’s brought nothing but controversy to the game. It’s made football unwatchable.

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:13 pm

If they checked everything the game would last about 4 hours.

That's the only way to do it properly, unless they bring in a review system like in cricket and tennis.

Had Arsenal scored from the free kick following Dwight’s challenge, the awarding of the free kick should have been brought into the review of the goal.

I don’t think it would have been.

pushpinpussy wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:53 pm

we would not have got that given in a million years. he lost control of the ball then ran into the keeper. a disgraceful decision. would love to understand why the ref gave it

Ask yourself to whom the penalty was awarded.....

Leisure wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:43 pm

Sounds simple but how does the 'clear and obvious error' come into it?

Anyone answer this?

Leisure wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:39 pm

Anyone answer this?

The idea is that VAR only intervenes if the ref has made a clear and obvious error.
The penalty award for Liverpool today was NOT a clear or obvious error. In fact, if the ref HAD have awarded a penalty in the first place then that would, in my view, have been a clear and obvious error that VAR should have overturned!

MT03ALG wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:32 pm

Ask yourself to whom the penalty was awarded.....

Also ask yourself who gave the penalty....

And then wonder why the assault from Tim Krul on Vydra wasn't given. I'm at a loss nowadays what the actual rules are

The issue with the Liverpool one today was Pawson - one of the worst of the bunch. Issue two was the unspoken agreement that the on field ref never goes against the VAR ref after checking the monitor.

The problem isn’t the technology, it’s the clowns operating it. The Jota one was a total joke obviously, with Jota changing direction and running into the keeper by choice. No way would two refs both see that as a pen on video.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:02 am

The issue with the Liverpool one today was Pawson - one of the worst of the bunch. Issue two was the unspoken agreement that the on field ref never goes against the VAR ref after checking the monitor.

The problem isn’t the technology, it’s the clowns operating it. The Jota one was a total joke obviously, with Jota changing direction and running into the keeper by choice. No way would two refs both see that as a pen on video.

The whole referee checking the monitor is a charade to give them a chance to save face for a poor decision. In the case of the Jota incident it wasn’t even a poor decision, but the very fact that he was called to the monitor puts pressure on the ref to overturn his call.

Basically, VAR is sh!t. Everyone knows it, and we’re now way beyond the teething stage - unfortunately we’re also way beyond the point that it will be done away with.

You are obviously forgetting it was Burnley playing at Arsenal

VAR is the new scapegoat but the reality is it's the poor officiating that makes bad decisions, be those locally or remotely.
VAR can do no right. People complain when it's involved and then that it's not involved enough.

The decisions were just down to bad refereeing. Not VAR.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:26 am

VAR is the new scapegoat but the reality is it's the poor officiating that makes bad decisions, be those locally or remotely.
VAR can do no right. People complain when it's involved and then that it's not involved enough.

The decisions were just down to bad refereeing. Not VAR.

Are you saying that the original decision when Jota went down was bad refereeing? No it wasn't and if there had been no VAR in use, which happens at every other level of English League Football, the game would have continued and Klopp and Jota would have had a moan, even though they would have been in the wrong.
The problem arose purely and simply because VAR is being used and this just gives someone else a chance to give their opinion on a particular incident. The quest for the perfect game of football goes on and it will never be achieved, even if they start using robots to officiate!

VAR and the Transfer Window have been two of the worst things to happen to football in the last 20 years.

VAR as it currently is used reminds me of scenarios that have happened not infrequently in my (and I suspect many posters on UTC) life.
Some one rings up and says " fancy coming round to watch the match tonight?"

Say yes and pitch up with six pack.
Meet up with a few mutual mates and settle down in front of the set and open the beers.
Every so often the beers need replenishing so off to the fridge and have a quick Jimmy Riddle on the way.
Come back to find a goal or significant event has happened and have to rely on a few high spirited mates to explain.
Only realise the next day that some of the aformantioned mates may have been taking the proverbial?

Does anyone check the checker?

VAR is good
Referees are ****

So why get rid of VAR?


We need new referees.
Colin, God forbid I agree with him, says that referees know the rules, but they don't know the game. He said ex footballers should be in VAR studios, to have an input into decisions. I agree, I'd go further and try to encourage ex pros to go into refereeing full time.
The present pool of referees are not good enough, and never will be.

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:56 pm

Are you saying that the original decision when Jota went down was bad refereeing? No it wasn't and if there had been no VAR in use, which happens at every other level of English League Football, the game would have continued and Klopp and Jota would have had a moan, even though they would have been in the wrong.
The problem arose purely and simply because VAR is being used and this just gives someone else a chance to give their opinion on a particular incident. The quest for the perfect game of football goes on and it will never be achieved, even if they start using robots to officiate!

VAR and the Transfer Window have been two of the worst things to happen to football in the last 20 years.

I was commenting on a thread that was created because of our game against Arsenal. No idea on other games because I haven't watched them.

You're entitled to your own opinion as am I. I think VAR is necessary in the modern game and I'm happy it's finally here. What I'm not happy with however is bad officiating both at the games and at Stockley park.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:21 pm

VAR is good
Referees are ****

So why get rid of VAR?


We need new referees.
Colin, God forbid I agree with him, says that referees know the rules, but they don't know the game. He said ex footballers should be in VAR studios, to have an input into decisions. I agree, I'd go further and try to encourage ex pros to go into refereeing full time.
The present pool of referees are not good enough, and never will be.

That's exactly what I've said before. It's the old boys club afraid to upset eachother. Like stewarding in motor racing there needs to be ex pros involved in the decision making process.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:21 pm

VAR is good
Referees are ****

You know what the 'R' in VAR stands for, right?

VAR is referees. It's just referees watching a telly. If referees are s*** - as you say - then VAR is s***.

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:56 pm

VAR and the Transfer Window have been two of the worst things to happen to football in the last 20 years.

Perhaps it is hard to believe but IMHO VAR is the better of those two evils. I cannot see what the transfer window achieves that is a positive for the game

NottsClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:32 pm

You know what the 'R' in VAR stands for, right?

VAR is referees. It's just referees watching a telly. If referees are s*** - as you say - then VAR is s***.

That’s the horrible truth isn’t it? We always thought the issue for refs was “the game is so fast they were bound to miss x, y or z”. But the use of VAR has actually confirmed that, yes, they really are that bad at their job.

I mean how on earth, in the same sport, can one ref think the goalie punching Vydra isn’t a pen and the Jota one is a pen?

GaryClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:43 pm

I mean how on earth, in the same sport, can one ref think the goalie punching Vydra isn’t a pen and the Jota one is a pen?

Simple its Kevin Friend

Another topic for the conspiracy theorists to blame the referees for being anti Burnley when in reality the referees are a steaming pile of horse shite.

We haven't had a red card in so long, they clearly aren't against us, we need to stop making excuses for being a poor side and face reality. We didn't beat Norwich because we didn't deserve to, nothing to do with the ref, we were shite.

The referee against Arsenal was completely fine, the biggest decision he had to make was one that went in our favour when Westwood was very lucky not to be sent off.

Why nobody mentioned this?

Lets just not even look at the game objectively anymore.

As for the corner, I don't think Ramsdale touched it, the players' reaction told me that.

I did

NottsClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:32 pm

You know what the 'R' in VAR stands for, right?

VAR is referees. It's just referees watching a telly. If referees are s*** - as you say - then VAR is s***.

Only because of its misuse.
If it was used in the way it was intended, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Having an opportunity to review, and replay, close or controversial calls is a no brainer.
Sadly it is being operated by people with no brain.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:46 pm

Only because of its misuse.
If it was used in the way it was intended, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Having an opportunity to review, and replay, close or controversial calls is a no brainer.
Sadly it is being operated by people with no brain.

If they started reviewing corners, throw ins and **** I'd walk away and never watch a PL game again. An absolutely awful idea

Becareful what you wish for

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:34 pm

If they started reviewing corners, throw ins and **** I'd walk away and never watch a PL game again. An absolutely awful idea

Becareful what you wish for

I've never suggested that corners be reviewed, but decisions such as the Liverpool penalty, or Matej getting his head punched should be.
The fact they still get the calls wrong proves that the problem lies with the officials, not the technology.
Scrapping VAR wouldn't stop these bad decisions, it just lets the incompetents off the hook.