Yes , I know there is a separate post on potential transfers 'in' but surely what is need as a matter of urgency is someone up front who is a recognised striker.
Jermaine Jenas has got some stick on here because of his comments about Cornet on MOTD yesterday but he was spot on when he said something to the effect that having got the defence sorted just who was going to score the goals to make some wins and give us a genuine chance of avoiding the dreaded 'R' word. He did not see anyone capable of it.The truth is we don't have anybody and whilst hoping for many more defensive displays as of yesterday we have no hope at all without a recognised goal scorer. I know they are hard to come by but this should be our sole priority.Cornet , when he returns offers some hope but he is not an out-and-out striker and needs someone alongside him who is.

From Andy Jones’ recent comments in his articles for the Athletic it seems the club are prioritising a new striker and are confident in bringing one in. Then the club also recognises we need more creativity and so are looking at central midfield and a winger.

I mentioned it on the other thread. CM has got to be the priority. Not for the first time this season we only had one midfielder yesterday that completed more than 20 passes.

Ball retention between now and the end of the season will be what keeps us up. It will shore up defence and create better opportunities for our forwards.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:39 pm

From Andy Jones’ recent comments in his articles for the Athletic it seems the club are prioritising a new striker and are confident in bringing one in. Then the club also recognises we need more creativity and so are looking at central midfield and a winger.

Both should have been top priorities last transfer window after finishing the season one of the 3 lowest scoring teams (the other 2 were relegated).

Not hindsight I was posting these comments last summer.

Agree that a striker has to be top priority but we all know
that good strikers are extremely difficult to get in maybe more so if
you're a team at the bottom of the league.
Let's hope we can unearth another Cornet who can make an immediate impact.
Otherwise we're reliant on JayRod and Barnes coming good unless
Vydra can somehow battle on with his hernia not getting worse.

Not far behind is a central midfielder who can also get in amongst the goals
and provide more opportunities for those up front.

It's asking a lot but you never know.

We can’t and don’t shop in the same market as the other PL clubs… we are hoping to uncover a gem from the lower leagues or even abroad.

There’s time yet, I think we’ll get someone, even if it’s just a temp option.

bobinho wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:00 pm

We can’t and don’t shop in the same market as the other PL clubs… we are hoping to uncover a gem from the lower leagues or even abroad.

There’s time yet, I think we’ll get someone, even if it’s just a temp option.

Recent links would suggest we are going after higher profile players.
It's another thing signing them mind.

Has to be, more clean sheets would definitely be welcome but to win games you have to put the ball in the net.

Midfield for me - would solve more than one problem.

Please no! I cant handle two threads of the same drivel!

A centre forward is a must, you can't sell Wood and not replace - even temporarily. The Wood deal is only superb business if he is replaced as Jay and Vydra will be lucky to score 3 between them before the end of the season. We are very short up there, but I am confident the club is fully aware of that.

I have to agree regarding a striker. Although we are also desperate for a midfielder I think there’s enough in the team that could cover that position until a striker’s on board. Without hitting the net we’re not going to survive in this league.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:43 pm

I mentioned it on the other thread. CM has got to be the priority. Not for the first time this season we only had one midfielder yesterday that completed more than 20 passes.

Ball retention between now and the end of the season will be what keeps us up. It will shore up defence and create better opportunities for our forwards.

Shore up a defence that would be in the top ten in the division terms of goals conceded?

Given the fact that we have 3 strikers with one goal between them in a team that has the second lowest scoring rate in the Premiership you think ball retention and shoring up the defence is the priority?

How many buses do you want to park in front of Nick Pope?

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:29 pm

Shore up a defence that would be in the top ten in the division terms of goals conceded?

Given the fact that we have 3 strikers with one goal between them in a team that has the second lowest scoring rate in the Premiership you think ball retention and shoring up the defence is the priority?

How many buses do you want to park in front of Nick Pope?

We have kept 4 clean sheets this season. If you can’t score you need to keep clean sheets.

If you read it in full you would also note that I said better ball retention would lead to better chances created for our forwards.

I also said that a striker and RM were the next priority.

Heartening though yesterday's point and performance was, if a cm and a striker are not forthcoming before the window closes, it'll be a footballing miracle if we stay up.

So here's hoping...

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:32 pm

We have kept 4 clean sheets this season. If you can’t score you need to keep clean sheets.

If you read it in full you would also note that I said better ball retention would lead to better chances created for our forwards.

I also said that a striker and RM were the next priority.

And therein lies the problem for a team like us. Clean sheets.

In the past one goal scored has often been enough.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:32 pm

We have kept 4 clean sheets this season. If you can’t score you need to keep clean sheets.

If you read it in full you would also note that I said better ball retention would lead to better chances created for our forwards.

I also said that a striker and RM were the next priority.

Fair point but:.

In the season we came 10th we scored 43 goals and conceded 50.

Last year we scored 33 goals and conceded 55 goals

This year we are pretty much on target to match last year except we have just lost the striker that scored a third of those goals.

I suppose you could argue that if we find a midfielder better than Westwood, Brownhill and Cork we might create more chances for Vydra and Jay but I think on balance a striker is more important simply because Vydra has never scored more than 3 in the Premiership and Jay hasn't scored for a couple of seasons. No offence to either both good squad players.

Going forward we need two CMs because Westwood and Cork aren't getting any younger but that's a whole other problem

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:32 pm

We have kept 4 clean sheets this season. If you can’t score you need to keep clean sheets.

If you read it in full you would also note that I said better ball retention would lead to better chances created for our forwards.

I also said that a striker and RM were the next priority.

We have kept 4 clean sheets, however we've failed to win any of those games, Norwich, Wolves, West Ham and Arsenal, because we've lacked a clinical finisher, now it's true we don't create as much as other teams, and that goes back to lack of a decent CM, but if we had a genuine poacher we'd have likely won 2 of those matches, and there's also been a few other winnable games where we've slipped up despite playing decently due to not taking our chances when they come along.

9 Draws in 18 matches with only 16 goals scored tells me where our most pressing issue is, and if we can only sign 1 newbie it's got to be a CF in my opinion.

WE may have got all 3 points v Arsenal with a good strong striker. McNeil nearly got through twice at the end and he was knackered

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:45 pm

9 Draws in 18 matches with only 16 goals scored tells me where our most pressing issue is, and if we can only sign 1 newbie it's got to be a CF in my opinion.

I agree.
If we do not sign a first-team ready striker in the next seven days, we will be relegated. It really is as simple as that.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:45 pm

We have kept 4 clean sheets, however we've failed to win any of those games, Norwich, Wolves, West Ham and Arsenal, because we've lacked a clinical finisher, now it's true we don't create as much as other teams, and that goes back to lack of a decent CM, but if we had a genuine poacher we'd have likely won 2 of those matches, and there's also been a few other winnable games where we've slipped up despite playing decently due to not taking our chances when they come along.

9 Draws in 18 matches with only 16 goals scored tells me where our most pressing issue is, and if we can only sign 1 newbie it's got to be a CF in my opinion.

It's a bit harsh saying we haven't got a decent CM. Westwood was player of the season a couple of years ago and Cork has been a mainstay for several seasons.

They play within the Burnley system that has kept us in the Premier league for 6 seasons and are well renowned for being very effective.

I agree about a poacher. Cornet is proof of that pudding scoring 6 in 10 but goal scorers are not cheap.

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:13 pm

It's a bit harsh saying we haven't got a decent CM. Westwood was player of the season a couple of years ago and Cork has been a mainstay for several seasons.

They play within the Burnley system that has kept us in the Premier league for 6 seasons and are well renowned for being very effective.

I agree about a poacher. Cornet is proof of that pudding scoring 6 in 10 but goal scorers are not cheap.

All of our CMs have dropped off a cliff the last 12-18 months.

Westwood can probably last till the summer if we don’t get him an adequate partner we will struggle.

Having CMs that complete less than 20 passes in a game is inexcusable at any level.

Assuming Jay is over his injury problems does anyone know his longest run in the team over the last couple of seasons.
Like every player he needs to have an extended run to get fully match fit and I don’t think he’s had that .
With his shooting power and desire I’m not going to write him off just yet.
I’ve been saying this for a long time and every time an injury problem has cropped up . Please , not this time in our hour of need.
We need goals from midfield !!

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:16 pm

All of our CMs have dropped off a cliff the last 12-18 months.

Westwood can probably last till the summer if we don’t get him an adequate partner we will struggle.

Having CMs that complete less than 20 passes in a game is inexcusable at any level.

I think its harsh but there's no getting around the fact that both Cork and Westwood are 32 ish.

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:30 pm

I think its harsh but there's no getting around the fact that both Cork and Westwood are 32 ish.

No doubting what they have contributed in the past, but unfortunately they seem to be depreciating very quickly. Unfortunately the other CMs on the books just don’t have the quality required.

I honestly think if we can get someone of the Cork from 2017 or Defour quality it will transform this team

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:35 pm

No doubting what they have contributed in the past, but unfortunately they seem to be depreciating very quickly. Unfortunately the other CMs on the books just don’t have the quality required.

I honestly think if we can get someone of the Cork from 2017 or Defour quality it will transform this team

Yes but players like Defour are as rare as rocking horse poop - hard working and very creative. A fair shout but I'd still go for a forward.

Newcastle93

Agree with you about Cork btw regularly topped the yards covered charts and able to thread a pass through

Westwood is our highest passing CM.
Brownhill 2nd and cork 3rd.

Brownhill is being tasked with other things, defensive etc, I'm not surprised to see an difference in their passing numbers.

What we need soon is two younger lads to provide a decent backup/alternative

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:13 pm

It's a bit harsh saying we haven't got a decent CM. Westwood was player of the season a couple of years ago and Cork has been a mainstay for several seasons.

They play within the Burnley system that has kept us in the Premier league for 6 seasons and are well renowned for being very effective.

I agree about a poacher. Cornet is proof of that pudding scoring 6 in 10 but goal scorers are not cheap.

Harsh it might be, but it's also true, and for all their exploits in previous seasons, both are looking less effective year on year, so we do need to upgrade. And ideally get younger legs in there, and being greedy if we also got a creative type that might allow our strikers to impact on games more than they have this season, Cornet accepted naturally, but even his strikes have been goals out of nothing.

I hoped for an attacking CM, and a RW as JBG needs to be put out to pasture now, great for us a few seasons ago, but nowhere near PL standard now.

However that was prior to Wood leaving, he's normally been our go to man for goals, and the rest can't hit a barn door right now, so imperative for me that we get a poacher through the door this week, whether that's a loan or perm.

It doesn't help that we rely mainly on our forwards for goals, whereas most other sides possess at least one midfielder who'll chip in with 5/6 over the course of the season, we don't have that luxury hence the urgent need for a new arrival to have the same impact as Corner has had.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:52 pm

Westwood is our highest passing CM.
Brownhill 2nd and cork 3rd.

Brownhill is being tasked with other things, defensive etc, I'm not surprised to see an difference in their passing numbers.

What we need soon is two younger lads to provide a decent backup/alternative

But neither are producing the kind of numbers that Dyche teams are used to.

For the last few seasons our CMs complete an average of 40 passes a game.

This season we are completing nearly 25% less passes. I don’t think it’s a coincidence it’s also our worst season

Our leading scorer in our starting XI at Arsenal was Ben Mee with 2. That says it all

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:36 pm

But neither are producing the kind of numbers that Dyche teams are used to.

For the last few seasons our CMs complete an average of 40 passes a game.

This season we are completing nearly 25% less passes. I don’t think it’s a coincidence it’s also our worst season

Westwood is on course to match his passing from the last couple of seasons.
Brownhill is doing more of the defensive work according to the stats, but his passing is still averaging approx 20 per game.

This season -

Westwood total passes - 715
Accurate - 546 / 76.3%

Brownhill total passes - 472
Accurate - 360 / 76.4%

Their pass accuracy is pretty much the same, but Westwood is making more forward passes, Brownhill passing to a more attacking player.

Corks numbers are quite low this season and the last one, due to a reduced number of appearances, you'd have to go back to 19/20 but he had similar stats to Brownhill's now.

Brownhill is basically performing at the same/similar to level Cork from a couple of years ago.
Westwood is still being as consistent as ever

There's something that's missing, but I'm not sure it's the CM that's the main problem.

It could be something as simple as the fact Wood didn't have Barnes or someone similar up front with him and Woods form just collapsed this season.
It could even be a drop in form and inconsistency from our wingers.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:09 pm

Westwood is on course to match his passing from the last couple of seasons.
Brownhill is doing more of the defensive work according to the stats, but his passing is still averaging approx 20 per game.

This season -

Westwood total passes - 715
Accurate - 546 / 76.3%

Brownhill total passes - 472
Accurate - 360 / 76.4%

Their pass accuracy is pretty much the same, but Westwood is making more forward passes, Brownhill passing to a more attacking player.

Corks numbers are quite low this season and the last one, due to a reduced number of appearances, you'd have to go back to 19/20 but he had similar stats to Brownhill's now.

Brownhill is basically performing at the same/similar to level Cork from a couple of years ago.
Westwood is still being as consistent as ever

There's something that's missing, but I'm not sure it's the CM that's the main problem.

It could be something as simple as the fact Wood didn't have Barnes or someone similar up front with him and Woods form just collapsed this season.
It could even be a drop in form and inconsistency from our wingers.

It could just be that in the centre we are usually 2 vs 3

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:11 pm

It could just be that in the centre we are usually 2 vs 3

I didn't even consider that

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:34 pm

I didn't even consider that

It's just a possibility.
We might do no better with a midfield five for all I know

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:09 pm

Westwood is on course to match his passing from the last couple of seasons.
Brownhill is doing more of the defensive work according to the stats, but his passing is still averaging approx 20 per game.

This season -

Westwood total passes - 715
Accurate - 546 / 76.3%

Brownhill total passes - 472
Accurate - 360 / 76.4%

Their pass accuracy is pretty much the same, but Westwood is making more forward passes, Brownhill passing to a more attacking player.

Corks numbers are quite low this season and the last one, due to a reduced number of appearances, you'd have to go back to 19/20 but he had similar stats to Brownhill's now.

Brownhill is basically performing at the same/similar to level Cork from a couple of years ago.
Westwood is still being as consistent as ever

There's something that's missing, but I'm not sure it's the CM that's the main problem.

It could be something as simple as the fact Wood didn't have Barnes or someone similar up front with him and Woods form just collapsed this season.
It could even be a drop in form and inconsistency from our wingers.

2021-22 season average completed passes.

Westwood - 33
Brownhill - 22

2020-21:

Westwood - 42
Brownhill - 27

2019-20

Westwood - 40
Cork - 24

2018-19

Westwood - 32
Defour - 34

2017-18

Cork - 34
Defour - 35

As it shows this season our average passes completed from our main CMs has considerably dropped off.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:46 pm

2021-22 season average completed passes.

Westwood - 33
Brownhill - 22

2020-21:

Westwood - 42
Brownhill - 27

2019-20

Westwood - 40
Cork - 24

2018-19

Westwood - 32
Defour - 34

2017-18

Cork - 34
Defour - 35

As it shows this season our average passes completed from our main CMs has considerably dropped off.

This season looks like they're on target to reach previous seasons, which is what I've already said.

My point was I don't think it's just the CM's at fault.

What makes a good pass?

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:51 pm

This season looks like they're on target to reach previous seasons, which is what I've already said.

My point was I don't think it's just the CM's at fault.

Be an incredible turn around if they are going to improve there averages enough to match previous seasons.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:57 pm

What makes a good pass?

They are completed passes. Passes that have reached a player on there own team.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:59 pm

Be an incredible turn around if they are going to improve there averages enough to match previous seasons.

Well we're 4-5 games in hand, the team put in a good shift against Arsenal.
If we can keep the momentum going then it's entirely possible.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:57 pm

What makes a good pass?

To a teammate.
Then it gets broken down into forward/key passes etc.

Carroll nor Mounie though please

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:09 pm

It could be something as simple as the fact Wood didn't have Barnes or someone similar up front with him and Woods form just collapsed this season.

Statistically that could be the reason - when Ashley Barnes has a full season he chips in with 8 - 12 goals.

Last 2 years not much from him or Jay with a big drop in the goals tally and a drop in league position.

Possibly also explains why Wood left.

Albeit when we came 7th we only scored 36 goals but the defence only conceded 39.

We are scoring slightly less and conceding slightly more and in the words of the immortal Dyche - it is all margins and moments. For the first time in 6 seasons we can't seem to pull it out of the bag when required.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:59 pm

They are completed passes. Passes that have reached a player on there own team.

So, in part, they rely on the ability of the recipient to actually make them a good pass?

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:52 pm

Westwood is our highest passing CM.
Brownhill 2nd and cork 3rd.

Brownhill is being tasked with other things, defensive etc, I'm not surprised to see an difference in their passing numbers.

What we need soon is two younger lads to provide a decent backup/alternative

What we need is 2 quality CM's to replace both, not 'back up' options. We are incredibly poor in that area of the pitch and its affecting us at both ends.

A striker in this window is critical too.

To be fair if Dwight had slid in an easy pass to Vydra in the 90th minute that was 3 points. Vydra had made a good run and the right ball would have made it a tap in.

It isn’t just the lack of a striker, it is the service. Too often we throw in lazy crosses like Arsenal were doing to us yesterday,

JBG was similarly culpable when Roberts made a great overlap late on and JBG ignored him, got a shot blocked, and they broke.

I’d be throwing a lot of cash to get this Croatian lad if it were me.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:59 pm

They are completed passes. Passes that have reached a player on there own team.

So just say Brownhill and Westwood play an extra 30 - 40 5 yard passes to each other every game and their average goes above all previous seasons you would then claim they have improved ?

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:29 am

So just say Brownhill and Westwood play an extra 30 - 40 5 yard passes to each other every game and their average goes above all previous seasons you would then claim they have improved ?

If it meant we defended for less time in a game then yes.

One of the reasons we are struggling to keep clean sheets is because our back four are constantly under pressure due to our lack of ball retention

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:34 am

If it meant we defended for less time in a game then yes.

One of the reasons we are struggling to keep clean sheets is because our back four are constantly under pressure due to our lack of ball retention

That is the problem with judging everything from stats

2 recent games in different divisions you tell me the results, neither of these games are ours and both were played in last few days

Game 1
possession 31% - 69%
passes 227 - 491

Game 2
possession 24% - 76%
passes 278 - 777