We’re down. I’ve accepted that today, after many weeks of holding out hope. It’s nothing to do with todays performance or result, more Newcastle’s. They’re now to far in front and the others have too much quality, or have already accumulated too many points, to be caught and relegated.

It’s a shame because, short of scoring, I don’t think we’re far off being a decent PL team. And today was the best 90 minutes all season. Not short of being a memorable performance.

I don’t mind going down, but I do care if we don’t throw caution to the wind now and just bow out with a whimper, playing defensively. Really hope the Board and Dyche sit down and agree to throw caution to the wind. Let’s not ask our wingers to track back. Let’s leave them up and hope we can hurt the opposition on the turnover. Let’s leave a couple up at corners. Let’s put the ball at risk more generally. Let’s enjoy the last 5 months or so.

If we do what you say we will be down by the end of the month

Top Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:36 pm

If we do what you say we will be down by the end of the month

We’re down now. Who cares?

I think we are all getting to that point and losses at Leeds/Newcastle and the woeful draw against Watford were like " bring out your dead" calls.

I honestly am not bothered if we do get relegated as I enjoy the openness and optimism of Championship football as opposed to the "Oh my God today is a relegation decider" in October.

HOWEVER - I do just have a gut feeling that we will string together a run of ever so unlikely wins that will see us make it ******* interesting till the end. And who knows where that 1 game at a time Dyche against the wall mentality will have us by the end of May.


But yeah - lets have a bit of a go.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:43 pm

We’re down now. Who cares?

I do.. We need to go down fighting

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:43 pm

We’re down now. Who cares?

Me....I Care.

Our only hope, as I have said before is if Brentford cave in and we can start scoring. I believe we are capable of ending higher than both Norwich and Watford. Great shame we could not have brought in a second attacker. Our forwards have had by far the biggest injuries this season, and Weghorst getting injured today is a big worry

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:34 pm

We’re down. I’ve accepted that today, after many weeks of holding out hope. It’s nothing to do with todays performance or result, more Newcastle’s. They’re now to far in front and the others have too much quality, or have already accumulated too many points, to be caught and relegated.

It’s a shame because, short of scoring, I don’t think we’re far off being a decent PL team. And today was the best 90 minutes all season. Not short of being a memorable performance.

I don’t mind going down, but I do care if we don’t throw caution to the wind now and just bow out with a whimper, playing defensively. Really hope the Board and Dyche sit down and agree to throw caution to the wind. Let’s not ask our wingers to track back. Let’s leave them up and hope we can hurt the opposition on the turnover. Let’s leave a couple up at corners. Let’s put the ball at risk more generally. Let’s enjoy the last 5 months or so.

It’s posters like you who have openly criticised the more realistic posters for weeks & belittled us & called us negative, & now all of the sudden because we’ve been narrowly beaten against a very good side arguably the 2nd best team in the country you have now conceded defeat & calling up arms for some sort of a radical rejig & offensive approach, forgive some of the more realistic posters who don’t wish to engage, weeks ago we should have been discussing this properly without sniping or fear of being judged negatively.

No way we are down yet. Long way to go and it is still in our own hands. We are 7 points behind Newcastle with 2 games in hand. Win those games and beat Newcastle last game of the season and we could stay. Tough call but could happen.

Steve1956 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:45 pm

Me....I Care.

So you’re quite happy watching us play our current system through to the end of the season? We’d go down with the best GD in history because we hardly conceded but didn’t score either.

Draws are no good now at all. We needs wins to give ourselves any chance whatsoever but you won’t get them by being so defensively rigid.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:53 pm

No way we are down yet. Long way to go and it is still in our own hands. We are 7 points behind Newcastle with 2 games in hand. Win those games and beat Newcastle last game of the season and we could stay. Tough call but could happen.

Newcastle have won their last 3. We would need them to pick up no more points (or very few) for your scenario and unfortunately I just cannot see that happening

I don't want Dyche next season.......
Nothing against the bloke and he's been brilliant since his time here but everything feels stale....

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:55 pm

So you’re quite happy watching us play our current system through to the end of the season? We’d go down with the best GD in history because we hardly conceded but didn’t score either.

Draws are no good now at all. We needs wins to give ourselves any chance whatsoever but you won’t get them by being so defensively rigid.

Shlt Happens....I just quietly get on with it....I suggest you do the same.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:53 pm

It’s posters like you who have openly criticised the more realistic posters for weeks & belittled us & called us negative, & now all of the sudden because we’ve been narrowly beaten against a very good side arguably the 2nd best team in the country you have now conceded defeat & calling up arms for some sort of a radical rejig & offensive approach, forgive some of the more realistic posters who don’t wish to engage, weeks ago we should have been discussing this properly without sniping or fear of being judged negatively.

You obviously didn’t read my post, which clearly said it has nothing to do with our performance today, moreso results out of our control.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:53 pm

No way we are down yet. Long way to go and it is still in our own hands. We are 7 points behind Newcastle with 2 games in hand. Win those games and beat Newcastle last game of the season and we could stay. Tough call but could happen.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:09 pm

You obviously didn’t read my post, which clearly said it has nothing to do with our performance today, moreso results out of our control.

We knew all this weeks ago, billionaires buying Newcastle sealed our fate whilst some posters were arguing that Newcastles fortunes wouldn’t be improved & lo & behold.

Steve1956 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:03 pm

Shlt Happens....I just quietly get on with it....I suggest you do the same.

I am… I’m quite comfortable with going down as others have said - it’ll be nice to be chasing something (hopefully), vs fearing something.

My question is: having found ourselves where we are now, do we want to go down being a side of great defensive discipline, exerting our energy tracking back, or being less cautious and giving it a go now?

Appreciate we're likely to go down, but we still need to approach each game in a way that gives us the best chance of winning. In recent weeks, the Watford game is the only one we got horribly wrong and unfortunately the game we most needed to get right.

There's only so many times you can say the same thing to the same players. Great performance today and in the last few games but even dyche must be losing motivation. Don't see any point changing before the end of the season because nobody would get a better tune out of this squad but its time for a change of squad or players. If we ship out the ooc players I'd stick with dyche.....but not if he wants to keep most of them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDRqrKHzZEE
FFS! We were playing on of the top teams in Europe, let alone in the Premier League, did you think we would suddenly become a Champions League team? We had some chances, we needed Pope to be at his best - which he was, but the main things you need to happen to beat the big 4 is a lot of luck, them not putting away their chances and maybe giving a subpar performance and your team to play out of their skins, putting away the rare chances you get. We didn't put away our chances, simple as.

alpo wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:37 pm

There's only so many times you can say the same thing to the same players. Great performance today and in the last few games but even dyche must be losing motivation. Don't see any point changing before the end of the season because nobody would get a better tune out of this squad but its time for a change of squad or players. If we ship out the ooc players I'd stick with dyche.....but not if he wants to keep most of them

Stick with Dyche for now. To be fair to him he has also said that not enough was spent in the 19/20 - 20/ 21 windows so it's not as though he isn't aware of the problem.

In terms of change - definitely not. Play to win every game to the end of the season and see what happens.

Think we can pick up enough points but needs another team to collapse... Brentford or Leeds probably.

Dyche is very good. You can't fail to be impressed by what he says and the players seem to respond.... other than throwing one in against Norwich/newcastle/Watford. His squad is limited and its only partially his fault. There are a lot of ex players masquerading as managers... Dyche isn't one of those.

We battered Norwich and were robbed, Newcastle was awful and v. Watford two awful sides cancelled each other out in shite conditions.
Dyche is very good and the last two performances were pretty impressive. We deserved a point today.

I don’t know if some people were taking acid or on serious meds thinking Newcastle would be involved in the 3 way shootout, our only distant hope is Brentford but that means a lot of luck & playing our very best, it can be done.

While there is still hope we all need to keep on believing

The last 3 halves of football have been extremely encouraging.

Having said that, we desperately need our big guns to start firing soon. Mainly Weghorst, McNeil and Cornet

If I could end the season now and start tomorrow in the Champ I would ( aside from the financial implications). Haven’t enjoyed this season at all and have missed matches out of choice for the first time in a long time. I like entertainment which means sometimes winning, seeing goals and creativity and not just defending. We may see more experimentation once it’s confirmed but Dyche seems to have a set formula.

We have to keep the faith, and thankfully those on the games appear to be doing just that.

4 games in hand on Brentford, 10 points the gap, thats who we should be targeting and we've still got to play them away.

Plenty of winnable games left.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:55 pm

So you’re quite happy watching us play our current system through to the end of the season? We’d go down with the best GD in history because we hardly conceded but didn’t score either.

Draws are no good now at all. We needs wins to give ourselves any chance whatsoever but you won’t get them by being so defensively rigid.

So what do you suggest we do? (Other than throw the towel in and moan, moan, moan)

We’re down and have realistically been for months. It’s now just about restoring some pride and hopefully finishing on a high, ready for the rollercoaster of the Championship next season.

I honestly don't see us getting out of the bottom three, though I hope I'm wrong.
But I do think we could, with a degree of caution, look at Collins on a regular basis, and perhaps try a change in formation.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:52 pm

So what do you suggest we do? (Other than throw the towel in and moan, moan, moan)

Did you read my OP Leisure?

Performance levels have improved but no wins - Newcastle have won twice in a week and us once all season.

14 points - rock bottom and 3 wins needed to get above Newcastle when we have won 1 all season - really unlikely.

A Brentford implosion seems our only hope but even that’s no good if we don’t win at least 6/7 more games.

Games in hand are no good, looking at the opponents any wins from them are unlikely.

If anyone can see how, with 1 win mid Feb, we go win 7 more I’m all ears.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 8:08 pm

Did you read my OP Leisure?

I think everybody’s read your thread but It’s unrealistic how you expect people to respond you can’t be Mr positive 1 minute & Mr negative the next minute, you say this isn’t based upon our performances but results being out of our control but what did you seriously expect from Newcastle spending sh1tloads of money? Anybody with half a brain cell realised our job would be almost impossible, this has been on the cards for months but some people have decided to ignore logic & common sense until seemingly now!

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:56 pm

We’re down and have realistically been for months. It’s now just about restoring some pride and hopefully finishing on a high, ready for the rollercoaster of the Championship next season.

Dyche said in the week that “we ask a lot from our wingers”. We do. And in McNeil’s case, it seems to have impacted his form, I’d argue.

Today he was rollicking Cornet for getting involved in an attack and losing position. I very much agreed with him at the time - it was 0-0 - but Newcastles results mean we need wins now.

If we don’t start taking risks, we’ll play the season out with tight games and draws, never looking outplayed but go down. I’d much rather we just take some more risks, ride our luck a bit, throw everything at it with no fear. At least it’d be fun, entertaining and probably better for ST sales. If we get anywhere near escaping the drop we can see if we need to revert to being more conservative, but I can’t see the point when we’re so far adrift and Newcastle’s form has completely turned.

Brentford and Leeds are still in play. We realistically need 24 points from 17 games. If we get those 38 points more than likely keeps us up, if that’s not enough then fair play the Prem has been a good ride.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 8:42 pm

I think everybody’s read your thread but It’s unrealistic how you expect people to respond you can’t be Mr positive 1 minute & Mr negative the next minute, you say this isn’t based upon our performances but results being out of our control but what did you seriously expect from Newcastle spending sh1tloads of money? Anybody with half a brain cell realised our job would be almost impossible, this has been on the cards for months but some people have decided to ignore logic & common sense until seemingly now!

Nonsense Jakub.

Firstly my post today is not negative. It was complentary of how we played, and that I think there’s a decent PL lurking there, but accepting relegation.

Secondly, I’ve not been changing my position at all. Click my name, search my posts with the term “relegation”. You’ll see over many weeks I’ve been accepting we’re in a relegation fight and more recently have commented on the chances of avoiding that decreasing. So you’re wrong on that also.

I wasn’t replying to you, I was replying to Leisure. Because he asked what I’d do about it, which I’d answered in - and was the whole point of my OP. Namely, I’d free the shackles, let the team free of some of their defensive responsibilities, allow them to take more risks, leave men up at corners, FK’s, etc. Let the opposition worry about us breaking them down rather than the other way around. That’s not to say we shouldn’t try to get a foothold in the game, but particularly in situations like today if we’re 1-0 down or drawing in the second half of games because we need wins. Can’t really see that’s controversial in our current situation.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:31 pm

Nonsense Jakub.

Firstly my post today is not negative. It was complentary of how we played, and that I think there’s a decent PL lurking there, but accepting relegation.

Secondly, I’ve not been changing my position at all. Click my name, search my posts with the term “relegation”. You’ll see over many weeks I’ve been accepting we’re in a relegation fight and more recently have commented on the chances of avoiding that decreasing. So you’re wrong on that also.

I wasn’t replying to you, I was replying to Leisure. Because he asked what I’d do about it, which I’d answered in - and was the whole point of my OP. Namely, I’d free the shackles, let the team free of some of their defensive responsibilities, allow them to take more risks, leave men up at corners, FK’s, etc. Let the opposition worry about us breaking them down rather than the other way around. That’s not to say we shouldn’t try to get a foothold in the game, but particularly in situations like today if we’re 1-0 down or drawing in the second half of games because we need wins. Can’t really see that’s controversial in our current situation.

The threads aren’t identified as relegation loads of threads on this forum talk about relegation but aren’t named as such, exactly what I predicted regarding Newcastles happened I said a few weeks ago when some foolish posters were predicting them for the drop I said they’d be ok & when Newcastle started to climb them same people would backtrack & pretend nothing was said & that’s what’s happened. You have just shifted away from being positive because the results have gone against from what you predicted, don’t worry you aren’t on your own in recklessly & naively predicting things which later transpire to be wrong.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:50 pm

The threads aren’t identified as relegation loads of threads on this forum talk about relegation but aren’t named as such, exactly what I predicted regarding Newcastles happened I said a few weeks ago when some foolish posters were predicting them for the drop I said they’d be ok & when Newcastle started to climb them same people would backtrack & pretend nothing was said & that’s what’s happened. You have just shifted away from being positive because the results have gone against from what you predicted, don’t worry you aren’t on your own in recklessly & naively predicting things which later transpire to be wrong.

If money was a guarantee of survival why did Villa only stay up two seasons ago due to dubious goal line technology despite spending far more than Newcastle have in recent weeks, and have incredibly wealthy owners (multi billionaires)?

Dean Smith had spent many millions and even had Jack Grealish in the side. Despite that they had to rely on the goal line technology not working for them to stop up.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:24 pm

If money was a guarantee of survival why did Villa only stay up two seasons ago due to dubious goal line technology despite spending far more than Newcastle have in recent weeks, and have incredibly wealthy owners (multi billionaires)?

Dean Smith had spent many millions and even had Jack Grealish in the side. Despite that they had to rely on the goal line technology not working for them to stop up.

Perhaps the PL is bent?
Spend money...stay up.
Put TV money in the bank and get shafted!

Who knows?

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:24 pm

If money was a guarantee of survival why did Villa only stay up two seasons ago due to dubious goal line technology despite spending far more than Newcastle have in recent weeks, and have incredibly wealthy owners (multi billionaires)?

Dean Smith had spent many millions and even had Jack Grealish in the side. Despite that they had to rely on the goal line technology not working for them to stop up.

I don’t have the foggiest & frankly I don’t care, but what I do know is that you’ve got a track record of being wrong most of the time & mine is being right, times getting on night dude.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 8:08 pm

Did you read my OP Leisure?

Yes and you were incorrect with your first 2 words.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:19 pm

Yes and you were incorrect with your first 2 words.

I really hope you’re right Leisure, but I can’t see it now.

Today's not the day to moan about not creating chances etc.. but we have failed to score in half our games this season.
Let Cornet join in the attack Dyche.

We're not down until the fat lady sings and although she might be
in the dressing room clearing her throat she's not yet on stage.

jurek, I was about to use the same analogy, but you have put it better than I would have.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:37 pm

Today's not the day to moan about not creating chances etc.. but we have failed to score in half our games this season.
Let Cornet join in the attack Dyche.

We were brilliant today. Better than United I thought. A decent shot and bit of concentration away from a perfect performance. I just think we’ve left it too late to find this form & unfortunately Newcastle have hit it early.

So as some s ay we are already down I thought I’d see what long odds the bookies have us for staying up.

It’s 2/1 not exactly that long yet eh?

We’ve got a weird order of fixtures with very winnable games all through a very long run in. Win at Brighton and we will be back in touching distance.

I accepted relegation after the Newcastle defeat, nothing i have seen since has changed my mind, if fact, we are further behind. We need to win 2 of our games in hand to have any chance, plus beat Norwich, Brentford and Newcastle on the last day to stand a chance.

I also think we’re down. The Newcastle away defeat was shocking, as was the performance at Leeds. Lately we’ve actually played very well for the most part, but having upped performance levels significantly and still not put enough points on the board suggests there’s only one outcome.

I know 3 of the last 4 have been top sides, but not beating Watford was the problem.

You have to beat the teams around you, and we’ve managed to win 1 from 7 attempts against the other bottom 7 sides up to Brentford. It’s not even close to being good enough to staying up. We would need a run of 3-4 wins on the bounce to give ourselves half a chance. I think it’s a little too late.

Defensively we look the part. Going forward less so.

Claretforever wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:41 am

I also think we’re down. The Newcastle away defeat was shocking, as was the performance at Leeds. Lately we’ve actually played very well for the most part, but having upped performance levels significantly and still not put enough points on the board suggests there’s only one outcome.

I know 3 of the last 4 have been top sides, but not beating Watford was the problem.

You have to beat the teams around you, and we’ve managed to win 1 from 7 attempts against the other bottom 7 sides up to Brentford. It’s not even close to being good enough to staying up. We would need a run of 3-4 wins on the bounce to give ourselves half a chance. I think it’s a little too late.

Defensively we look the part. Going forward less so.

An excellent concise analysis of our season, playing well in the tougher games, and failing to turn up in the games that really matter.

Solid at the back in the main now, but struggling to score goals despite a few decent performances is a recipe for relegation I'm afraid.

Far too many draws is what's going to cost us, we've only lost 9, and we've been in every game, but it's that extra quality, and taking our chances when they come that makes all the difference in this league.

Yesterday a prime example, we enjoyed the better of the 1st half, but wasted 3 big chances, then Liverpool hit us with a sucker punch right before the break.