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Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:26 am
by Mala591
Would it be better (in your own opinion) if we were to (be relegated and) become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Instead of the constant struggle and frustration in the bottom six of the PL we’d potentially be in exciting play off games with a possible Wembley appearance. Our under 23 squad would have more chance of first team football (Championship level) and have more chance of developing (imo) into better players.
Ok, it’s a big risk, and a top six finish in the Championship is never guaranteed but if the club continues to be well run with a good manager/head coach, excellent training facilities and an improved international scouting system it could be a more interesting/exciting experience being a Burnley fan if our future is a that of a PL/Championship yo-yo club.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:48 am
by lakesider
Good point and most seasoned Burnley fans would accept that scenario. However the worry is the premiership revenue we lose and the rather shaky looking foundations of our balance sheet which might either leave us at best with a more frugal attitude to players contracts and infrastructure investment as you're suggesting. Worse case (and unthinkable) is yet another ownership swap and the associated financial skullduggery of dressing up the shop window again a la Garlick ( spend nowt until another willing victim comes along).
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:56 am
by Marty Dobson
History doesn't suggest it. We are gloriously inconsistent most of the time.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:11 pm
by PadihamThickNeck
We’re soon about too become a League 1 club.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:27 pm
by RVclaret
We’ve amassed 57 seasons in the top flight of English football, more than in any other league. Fed up of hearing we shouldn’t be there, we absolutely should!
It all stems from recruitment (combined with having a good manager) and that’s a department we couldn’t really do with improving in.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:32 pm
by Burnley Ace
RVclaret wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:27 pm
We’ve amassed 57 seasons in the top flight of English football, more than in any other league. Fed up of hearing we shouldn’t be there, we absolutely should!
It all stems from recruitment (combined with having a good manager) and that’s a department we couldn’t really do with improving in.
How many seasons since the abolition of the maximum wage?
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:42 pm
by Rowls
7 of the last 8 in the PL.
1 qualification for Europe.
We're clearly a top side.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:10 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
This desire has been floated before and it's rightly shot down because there's zero guarantee we'd make it back up.
23yrs isn't it since Forest went down?
They've spent a ridiculous amount of money trying to get back up and have got nowhere fast.
Boro were the ultimate yo-yo club and then didn't bounce back....
This link is to Rovers finances, but it shows the debt levels, the Losses etc for all championship clubs and it isn't pretty.
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... ENg_g&s=19
We cannot risk becoming a yoyo club because some fans have this fanciful notion that we'd then go on to win more games when we drop so that would make them happier etc.
It's a silly idea and should be dismissed.
The PL was always going to be a slog, it is for the majority of teams and every so often a lesser team will have a season in the sun like we did when we finished 7th.
It takes ridiculous amounts of money to make that a regular occurrence.
Look at Leeds, they're starting to slide and there is a growing belief that Bielsa has reached his limit and cannot take them any further.
Villa potted the man who took and kept them up, because they have this belief they can break the top 6 but needed a different manager to try it and they've thrown hundreds of millions at it these last few years.
Same with Leicester, Wolves, Everton etc.
Without a billionaire we're here to make up the numbers and at somepoint it is going to end, but to want to yoyo so you can experience some wins in the championship every other season is very odd, even for the OP ...
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:19 pm
by Spijed
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:10 pm
This desire has been floated before and it's rightly shot down because there's zero guarantee we'd make it back up.
23yrs isn't it since Forest went down?
They've spent a ridiculous amount of money trying to get back up and have got nowhere fast.
Boro were the ultimate yo-yo club and then didn't bounce back....
This link is to Rovers finances, but it shows the debt levels, the Losses etc for all championship clubs and it isn't pretty.
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... ENg_g&s=19
We cannot risk becoming a yoyo club because some fans have this fanciful notion that we'd then go on to win more games when we drop so that would make them happier etc.
It's a silly idea and should be dismissed.
The PL was always going to be a slog, it is for the majority of teams and every so often a lesser team will have a season in the sun like we did when we finished 7th.
It takes ridiculous amounts of money to make that a regular occurrence.
Look at Leeds, they're starting to slide and there is a growing belief that Bielsa has reached his limit and cannot take them any further.
Villa potted the man who took and kept them up, because they have this belief they can break the top 6 but needed a different manager to try it and they've thrown hundreds of millions at it these last few years.
Same with Leicester, Wolves, Everton etc.
Without a billionaire we're here to make up the numbers and at somepoint it is going to end, but to want to yoyo so you can experience some wins in the championship every other season is very odd, even for the OP ...
Excellent post.
And assuming we go down this season then all it takes is for one of the promoted sides to stay up and therefore one of the "Too good to go down" will have to be relegated.
If both Fulham & Bournemouth were to stop up, assuming they get promoted then you'll be seeing clubs (praised on here for how well they've been run) drop for at least one season.
Whilst not in immediate danger of being relegated even Leicester have been struggling this season.
It really shows that apart from the big six then no club has a right to be in the Prem.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:21 pm
by ClaretTony
Whatever we are about to become, my desire is for us to be as good as we possibly can be and that means staying in this division.
I’ll be gutted if it ends this year but can look back on five previous seasons that have only ever seen us flirt with relegation, has included two top half finishes and a short trip into Europe.
Why would anyone want us to be anywhere but the Premier League?
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:34 pm
by randomclaret2
RVclaret wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:27 pm
We’ve amassed 57 seasons in the top flight of English football, more than in any other league. Fed up of hearing we shouldn’t be there, we absolutely should!
It all stems from recruitment (combined with having a good manager) and that’s a department we couldn’t really do with improving in.
Isnt this our 59th season in the top division ?
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:50 pm
by Bosscat
PadihamThickNeck wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:11 pm
We’re soon about too become a League 1 club.
Well PTN you will fit in perfectly ... as you are a 3rd division supporter
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:57 pm
by ElectroClaret
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:21 pm
Why would anyone want us to be anywhere but the Premier League?
Why indeed.
Why any fan wouldn't want to play at the highest level of football possible is baffling.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:07 pm
by RVclaret
randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:34 pm
Isnt this our 59th season in the top division ?
Maybe? I stand corrected if so
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:42 pm
by Quicknick
I fear that if we go down, we may struggle next season.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:53 pm
by Peter Loo
We are in the top league so this question just seems so irrelevant right now.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:59 pm
by Dyched
After our first 2 seasons back in the second when we finished 7th twice, we went 6 seasons in the bottom half. Apart from our two 7th place finishes and the 3 promotions, our record has been pretty dismal in the Championship. We’ve been basically doing the same thing, put in a league higher and against some of the best team and players in the world.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:13 pm
by tiger76
Dyched wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:59 pm
After our first 2 seasons back in the second when we finished 7th twice, we went 6 seasons in the bottom half. Apart from our two 7th place finishes and the 3 promotions, our record has been pretty dismal in the Championship. We’ve been basically doing the same thing, put in a league higher and against some of the best team and players in the world.
True, but our Championship record under Dyche is second to none, so if we do drop, and assuming he stays, with good recruitment, plus keeping hold of most of our stars, we'll be strong favourites to make an instant return, as many relegated sides have in recent years.
We did finish lower half in those seasons, but often this was due to being forced to sell a star striker mid-season, when we were challenging near the top.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:19 pm
by brexit
Without a billionaire we're here to make up the numbers and at somepoint it is going to end, but to want to yoyo so you can experience some wins in the championship every other season is very odd, even for the OP ...
[/quote]
Slight curve ball here but if all PL clubs had billionaire owners would that level the playing field? Are there enough world class managers and players to fill 20 PL teams ?
Looking for opinions not trolling
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:34 pm
by ClaretTony
Dyched wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:59 pm
After our first 2 seasons back in the second when we finished 7th twice, we went 6 seasons in the bottom half. Apart from our two 7th place finishes and the 3 promotions, our record has been pretty dismal in the Championship. We’ve been basically doing the same thing, put in a league higher and against some of the best team and players in the world.
Since the 2000 promotion we've had 14 seasons in the Championship which is 644 games.
Record
p 644
w 257
d 178
l 209
f 845
a 802
pts 949
I'd call that above average rather than pretty dismal
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:47 pm
by Dyched
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:34 pm
Since the 2000 promotion we've had 14 seasons in the Championship which is 644 games.
Record
p 644
w 257
d 178
l 209
f 845
a 802
pts 949
I'd call that above average rather than pretty dismal
Pretty dismal was harsh I guess. The point was those getting bored with finishing near the bottom of the Premier League and wanting to get back to the Championship to win games are forgetting all those unforgettable seasons we had down there.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:51 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
brexit wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:19 pm
Without a billionaire we're here to make up the numbers and at somepoint it is going to end, but to want to yoyo so you can experience some wins in the championship every other season is very odd, even for the OP ...
Slight curve ball here but if all PL clubs had billionaire owners would that level the playing field? Are there enough world class managers and players to fill 20 PL teams ?
Looking for opinions not trolling
[/quote]
Not really, because 3 clubs still have to get relegated at some point.
What would then happen is more billionaire owners in the championship trying to ensure they can get promoted.
I don't think there are enough "elite"/world class managers to fill the league either, plenty of up and coming ones though, the man at Sporting CP is currently the media darling from what I've read, so there are definitely managers out there to fill the league with.
Players - plenty of good quality players, just need them to fulfil visa requirements.
The bigger question is are there enough billionaires interested in buying English football clubs.
Sunderland have managed to find one, probably because they've got decent facilities and they were cheap, but plenty of other clubs struggle to attract one
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:53 pm
by Jakubclaret
ElectroClaret wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:57 pm
Why indeed.
Why any fan wouldn't want to play at the highest level of football possible is baffling.
You can want something but if that want means never hardly winning & being at the bottom & having the worst form guide in the leagues why would you want that? If things were different an arguments there to be had that staying in the top league is the place to be, currently we can’t raise that argument so on that basis in order to be more competitive & in amongst teams of our own abilities it’s understandable why some people could be looking forward to the championship. We aren’t getting good hidings in the league but generally the results are very poor.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:49 pm
by tiger76
Being a yo-yo club is probably the best we can hope for in the absence of a rich backer, I'd rank us as a similar size to Norwich and West Brom, and they've both managed plenty of promotions recently, admittedly also plenty of relegations, but if people genuinely thought we'd remain in the PL for an indefinite period, that was always unrealistic, there's only so often we can defy gravity, and the immense spending power of most other clubs.
If we do drop, then as long as Norwich & Watford join us there's nothing for us to fear in the Championship as far as I can see, and we'd hopefully be able to clear out some of the deadwood, pick up a few younger players with potential, and dare I say it we might even see some of our under 23's finally breaking through to the 1st team squad.
Apart from the big 6, Everton & Leicester every other club faces the prospect of falling to the Championship, and even Man City have played in the lower leagues relatively recently, so although the likes of Brighton and Wolves are faring well now, there's no guarantees even they will be able to maintain their current lofty positions.
TBH most fair-minded fans would accept we've done well to last as long as we have, 6 successive PL seasons is no mean feat for a club of our fairly limited resources compared to rest of the league.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:50 pm
by Bullabill
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:34 pm
Since the 2000 promotion we've had 14 seasons in the Championship which is 644 games.
Record
p 644
w 257
d 178
l 209
f 845
a 802
pts 949
I'd call that above average rather than pretty dismal
I'd call this bit pretty dismal.
f 845
a 802
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:12 pm
by ClaretTony
Bullabill wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:50 pm
I'd call this bit pretty dismal.
f 845
a 802
You consider winning more often than losing and scoring more often than conceding dismal?
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:16 pm
by tiger76
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:12 pm
You consider winning more often than losing and scoring more often than conceding dismal?
Some fans are never happy are they, and bearing in mind during many of those seasons we had a meagre budget compared to a lot of the other clubs.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:45 pm
by Vegas Claret
it's what teams that come up out the Championship will be know, too many teams owned by countries and multi-billionaires make it nigh on impossible to compete
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:52 pm
by Burnleyareback2
Never dreamt we would ever be a premier league team due to the size of our town and modern football.
If we become a yo-yo team for these 2 leagues I’d be delighted.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:41 am
by Vegas Claret
Burnleyareback2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:52 pm
Never dreamt we would ever be a premier league team due to the size of our town and modern football.
If we become a yo-yo team for these 2 leagues I’d be delighted.
exactly
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:47 am
by jurek
Most fans wish to see their team win, score goals
and perform well and you could say that Burnley fans
have been starved of much of that this season in particular.
So playing in the Championship would provide more of the above
especially if we were challenging for top spots and potential
promotion back to the top league.
Certainly better for most than a constant struggle to win games
and stay up even though our last two games have given fans
some hope and they've got behind the team.
But there's no guarantee we'd become a yo-yo club
and manage to get back up as there's a huge rebuilding
job needs doing in the summer.
Pope,Taylor, Brownhill, Collins, Roberts, Cornet, McNeil and Weghorst
(with the addition of a few good young'uns) might be the nucleus of a team capable of
doing well in the Championship but that's assuming we can hold onto most of them.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:31 am
by box_of_frogs
I’d rather yo-yo than head the way of Sunderland and so many other ex PL clubs.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:35 am
by Lancasterclaret
The way the PL is going, it will be twenty clubs all owned by states or billionaires, and all of them realising that three clubs will still go down
Its just a matter of time before it becomes a closed shop sadly
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:41 am
by Newcastleclaret93
Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:35 am
The way the PL is going, it will be twenty clubs all owned by states or billionaires, and all of them realising that three clubs will still go down
Its just a matter of time before it becomes a closed shop sadly
Tbh it is pretty much a closed shop now. It’s very much becoming a group of 20-24 clubs. With a few clubs getting promoted and relegated fairly regularly.
Apart from Leeds and Brentford I can’t really think of any other clubs recently that have broken into the league
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:26 am
by MG70
tiger76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:13 pm
True, but our Championship record under Dyche is second to none, so if we do drop, and assuming he stays, with good recruitment, plus keeping hold of most of our stars, we'll be strong favourites to make an instant return, as many relegated sides have in recent years.
We did finish lower half in those seasons, but often this was due to being forced to sell a star striker mid-season, when we were challenging near the top.
If we go down, we’ll lose our best players. I think along with Tarkowski, Pope, McNeil, Mee and possibly Weghorst. We face a massive rebuild if we get relegated.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:58 am
by claretandbluesky
It’s not that we want to become a yo-yo team or that we could become one, it’s more the idea that a mix of Championship and Premier League football would be the most exciting if it could be arranged. Unfortunately it can’t. The Premier League is the ultimate challenge for a club like us but one which can become a yearly struggle played mainly on the back foot. The Championship is competitively the most open and exciting and a standard where it’s possible for us to challenge for the top. It would certainly bring relief to see us a force on the front foot taking the game to our opponents, so yes occasionally in the ideal world a successful visit to the Championship would be a pleasant interlude. As we know football doesn’t work like that and the Championship is one step nearer Divisions 1& 2.
What would in my opinion be great to see if we do get relegated is the building of a young side capable of progressing rather than regressing. That might take a new manager with bolder and braver ideas and with it the accompanying risks, but watching a side develop is the most pleasing thing of all.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:19 am
by boatshed bill
No.
Apparently, relegation from the PL will open a trap door which will see us in the Northern Premier in about 6 years... so no.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:22 am
by Spijed
boatshed bill wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:19 am
No.
Apparently, relegation from the PL will open a trap door which will see us in the Northern Premier in about 6 years... so no.
What's the problem with that?
Apparently as long as the games are entertaining and we are playing good football it shouldn't really matter what league we are in.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:40 am
by GodIsADeeJay81
claretandbluesky wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:58 am
The Championship is competitively the most open and exciting and a standard where it’s possible for us to challenge for the top.
At this moment in time the championship is reasonably competitive
We have already reached the point where wealthy people/companies have started buying up championship clubs and eventually it will just be PL MK2, full of clubs vying for promotion each year and throwing money at it, whilst there will be a group of clubs not quite good enough for the championship and too good for league 1 and then league 1 looks more competitive for a time.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:49 am
by claretandbluesky
It may be the case that the Championship does become a closed shop. Of course if we are able to compete in it that will make no difference, we will still get entertaining games. For the Liverpools and Man U’s of the world the Premier League is entertaining. The danger with the closed shop scenario is that the game becomes stale and loses its appeal. Sadly one of the downsides to Capitalism is the accumulation of wealth and power in a few hands and with it stagnation. Keeping the market open and free is the big problem, keeping completion vibrant and challenging is footballs big problem. It will need new laws and regulations to break out from the present rather predictable patterns.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:51 am
by Mala591
What could be more exciting/interesting than this!
https://youtu.be/pUqdT7g8cGA
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:02 am
by tiger76
Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:41 am
Tbh it is pretty much a closed shop now. It’s very much becoming a group of 20-24 clubs. With a few clubs getting promoted and relegated fairly regularly.
Apart from Leeds and Brentford I can’t really think of any other clubs recently that have broken into the league
Huddersfield and Sheff Utd, but their PL stays were brief, and without checking it does seem to be the same teams bouncing up and down every other season, Fulham and Bournemouth look like maintaining that trend this season also.
Re: Are we about to become a PL/Championship yo-yo club?
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:24 am
by GodIsADeeJay81
Currently it's the mainly the same teams coming up that went down the previous season.
That's one of the complaints about parachute payments distorting the championship.
Link shows every relegated and promoted team since the PL started and there is a pattern where for a few years the same teams go up and down, but eventually those teams change because either one manages to stay up or another just stays down and in some cases drops further, so they're replaced by another team.
Just shows that aiming to yoyo isn't always successful.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ue_seasons
