Hi all,

Looks like we’re all going to get hit over the coming months and having previously started a different thread about energy companies, where lots of people shared thoughts about suppliers, smart meters, tariffs etc, I just thought it’d be worth starting afresh with a thread that could be helpful to many.

I’m currently with (Octopus) as a result of taking advice from posters on the previous thread. I’ve overpaid a little through winter (probably by reduced fuel) so have got £250 in credit. That’ll likely get eaten up quite quickly but it’s good to have an initial buffer. I can get out for free at any point.

For now I think I’ll be holding what I’ve got.

Anyone out there with any wisdom to offer others? How are you going to play it?

All the best with it. I fully appreciate that this will hit some people very hard.

Hope the UTC can offer advice that can be helpful to many

First of all: don't let your supplier fit a smart meter.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:45 pm

First of all: don't let your supplier fit a smart meter.

Absolutely! That’s another reason I went to octopus. I would only do that if it became law.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:45 pm

First of all: don't let your supplier fit a smart meter.

What’s the reason for this?

TommyPicks wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:48 pm

What’s the reason for this?

They can make it harder to switch.

If you do swap suppliers - then use a cashback site.

Whether you’re swapping you broadband provider, tv deal, phone contract, car insurance, energy supplier - you’ll get “free” cashback for doing so through a cashback site.

Our Talk Talk deal ran out earlier in the year and we’d decided we were going to go with PlusNet ….. too cashback had an offer of £100 cashback for the same deal we were going to sign up with …. For literally clicking a button on their site to sign up instead.

Couple this with £50 back for my car insurance, £20/30 on some clothing etc I’ve recently bought from JD etc…

It’s a couple of hundred quid a year you can tot up for doing nothing you wouldn’t be doing anyway bar going through the cashback site instead of directly with the same company.

I’ve linked a couple that I use, as the different sites have different rates so it’s always worth checking which has a better deal at certain times.


https://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/member1181278662844

https://www.quidco.com/raf/4565948/

(I get a bit of free cash for recommending anyone who uses my referral and earns £10? And you get a few free quid too once you earn £10 I think it is which doesn’t take long at all if it’s something you’re going to actively do)

It isn’t some magic thing that’ll save you paying the going rates, but it could soften the blow by getting a little pot saved up whilst hopefully dampening the blow.

To give you an idea of if you actively use them - got about a grand back over some time without any “extra/silly” bits.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:54 pm

They can make it harder to switch.

If you are on a SMETS1 meter that is true but Energy Suppliers should be installing a SMETS2 meter now which means you can switch easily.

If every single one of the millions who are having the p*** took out of them said " F*** you" and cancelled their direct debit en masse, what could they do!? Lock millions up !? Like f*** they could.

We're being had for a nation of fat lads.

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:46 pm

Absolutely! That’s another reason I went to octopus. I would only do that if it became law.

Good on yer

Have you cancelled your DD Ringo?

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:13 pm

If every single one of the millions who are having the p*** took out of them said " F*** you" and cancelled their direct debit en masse, what could they do!? Lock millions up !? Like f*** they could.

We're being had for a nation of fat lads.

Feel free to live without electric and gas.

Well, they were going to go up massively anyway, but with what is going to happen in the next 24 to 48 hours, they are going to go up by even more

Not good

clarethomer wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:15 pm

Have you cancelled your DD Ringo?

Don't be daft. No point, unless everyone else did. It's a big ask BUT If we all did, what could they do!?

So I will share what we have done.
We went out and bought roller blinds and heavy duty curtains for most of the windows and patio doors.
Also curtains for the front door and back.

The house is much warmer once it goes dark and it appears to retain heat better throughout the night.

It certainly appears to have made a difference.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:18 pm

Well, they were going to go up massively anyway, but with what is going to happen in the next 24 to 48 hours, they are going to go up by even more

Not good

I am on a unfixed tariff, it’s going down this month due to the high winds. Let’s hope it stays windy.

I would be reviewing all of my outgoings if you haven't already done so - or do it regularly.

Can you save on Broadband, tv, subscriptions. Can you meal plan and batch cook etc to bring down grocery shop?

You aren't paying Council Tax potentially for Feb and March if you pay over 10 months. Can you use that money to put towards your energy bill?

clarethomer wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:22 pm

A much more pragmatic response to help people. Not quite so drastic as cancelling your DD and trying to start a revolution from UTC.com

My thermostat was always set around 19.5 to 20.

It’s now set around 18 to 18.5.

House is just as warm now.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:22 pm

I am on a unfixed tariff, it’s going down this month due to the high winds. Let’s hope it stays windy.

If what Lancaster thinks will happen in the next 24/48 hours does happen, there will be winds alright…

Second photo went wrong, front door with curtains shut.

TommyPicks wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:48 pm

What’s the reason for this?

there is also talk of "surge charging" - so paying quite a bit more for your energy at peak times. The only way they could do this is through SMART meters.

A thread for help. Definitely what it says on the tin.

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:43 pm

Hi all,

Looks like we’re all going to get hit over the coming months and having previously started a different thread about energy companies, where lots of people shared thoughts about suppliers, smart meters, tariffs etc, I just thought it’d be worth starting afresh with a thread that could be helpful to many.

I’m currently with (Octopus) as a result of taking advice from posters on the previous thread. I’ve overpaid a little through winter (probably by reduced fuel) so have got £250 in credit. That’ll likely get eaten up quite quickly but it’s good to have an initial buffer. I can get out for free at any point.

For now I think I’ll be holding what I’ve got.

Anyone out there with any wisdom to offer others? How are you going to play it?

All the best with it. I fully appreciate that this will hit some people very hard.

Hope the UTC can offer advice that can be helpful to many

Hi jd, like you I'm with Octopus. I got an email from them yesterday telling me my 12 months fixed rate comes to an end soon and offering me new fixed rates. They are offering me a new 12 months fixed rate which is almost 2.4 times my existing monthly charge or a "loyal customer" rate has got something like 5% discount on this new rate, a little bit less than 2.3 times increase.

The email also mentions a Flexible Octopus rate - which will rise and fall as wholesale costs rise and fall. This rate appears to be lower than Ofgem's standard variable cap. Still, of course, an increase on my monthly direct debit. But, of course, it doesn't really matter how much the monthly direct debit is, the real charges are based on how much gas and elec we use. Come April, when the days get longer and the nights get shorter and, with a bit of luck, the weather gets warmer we won't burn as much gas and we won't need the lights on as long.

I want to check that Flexible Octopus falls within the scope of the Ofgem cap. If it does then that's what I'll be going with. Plus, watching what the gas and elec prices do as we move into summer. If the supply starts to balance with the demand we should experience falling wholesale prices. But, it's a big BUT.... What is going to happen between Russia and Ukraine? what will sanctions do to Russia? will Russian gas still flow into Europe? Will the US be able to step up more LNG supplies - while understanding that LNG is a lot more expensive than pipeline gas, because of all the costs of liquifying the gas and ship it by LNG carrier...

As sure as anything, next winter is coming. At present, Ofgem is expecting to raise the standard variable rate cap again in October - and the forward gas and elec prices say this is what industry is paying now for next winter when the days will be getting shorter and the nights longer and the weather colder....

Yes, a tough one...

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:22 am

Hi jd, like you I'm with Octopus. I got an email from them yesterday telling me my 12 months fixed rate comes to an end soon and offering me new fixed rates. They are offering me a new 12 months fixed rate which is almost 2.4 times my existing monthly charge or a "loyal customer" rate has got something like 5% discount on this new rate, a little bit less than 2.3 times increase.

The email also mentions a Flexible Octopus rate - which will rise and fall as wholesale costs rise and fall. This rate appears to be lower than Ofgem's standard variable cap. Still, of course, an increase on my monthly direct debit. But, of course, it doesn't really matter how much the monthly direct debit is, the real charges are based on how much gas and elec we use. Come April, when the days get longer and the nights get shorter and, with a bit of luck, the weather gets warmer we won't burn as much gas and we won't need the lights on as long.

I want to check that Flexible Octopus falls within the scope of the Ofgem cap. If it does then that's what I'll be going with. Plus, watching what the gas and elec prices do as we move into summer. If the supply starts to balance with the demand we should experience falling wholesale prices. But, it's a big BUT.... What is going to happen between Russia and Ukraine? what will sanctions do to Russia? will Russian gas still flow into Europe? Will the US be able to step up more LNG supplies - while understanding that LNG is a lot more expensive than pipeline gas, because of all the costs of liquifying the gas and ship it by LNG carrier...

As sure as anything, next winter is coming. At present, Ofgem is expecting to raise the standard variable rate cap again in October - and the forward gas and elec prices say this is what industry is paying now for next winter when the days will be getting shorter and the nights longer and the weather colder....

Yes, a tough one...

I am on the flexible rate, it’s ok as long as the winds blowing. The fixed rates offered appear very high. I was offered similar and stuck with flexible.

Thank you moderators.

Disappointing that a thread offering help has also included unfounded nonsense about smart meters. If anything smart pricing will allow users access to cheaper electricity at times of the day when usage is low. The idea that those without smart meters will pay a lower price than those with is completely bonkers.

Unfortunately at the moment the cheapest deal for anyone who is out of contract is the cap. This means that there will be substantial increases for almost all users. As has been said above it is important not to focus on the monthly DD offered but actually look at the price per KWh. The other good advice is to try to reduce usage. One way to do this is by monitoring your usage via a smart meter.

There is no point switching suppliers at the moment. Try and help yourself though. Octopus have been giving tips on how to reduce your usage. Some are obvious and some not. Some that have reduced my usage include understanding that electricity is cheaper than gas, so where possible use electricity to cook. I always use the electric kettle to boil water then pour it into pans. If you pour a bath and need to add cold water then your boiler setting is too high - turn down the hot water dial. Close doors on rooms that don’t need to be heated eg spare bedrooms. My usage is down about 20% as a result of these.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:45 pm

First of all: don't let your supplier fit a smart meter.

Yes and then ask your MP to lobby the Trendy Green loon and thats our MP and his ministers to extract our energy resources out of the ground, instead of importing much of it.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:47 am

Yes and then ask your MP to lobby the Trendy Green loon and thats our MP and his ministers to extract our energy resources out of the ground, instead of importing much of it.

We extract plenty. Just sell it to Belgium.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:54 pm

They can make it harder to switch.

I have switched suppliers twice since having a smart meter installed, no problems at all in switching

nPower (smart meter install) > Octopus > Scottish Power (current supplier)

TommyPicks wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:48 pm

What’s the reason for this?

A few reasons. Firstly, the overall plan is to be able to introduce dynamic charging. So when enough people have 'smart' meters the suppliers can go,

'Oh we've noticed you seem to use more electricity between 4pm and 10pm so we'll have to charge a premium for that. On the plus side, we've noticed you use hardly anything between midnight and 6am, so we will reduce the unit cost for those hours.'

The other issue I've got is a bit technical, but essentially they will be able to start charging for some of the generation and supply overheads that they can't do with normal dumb meters. The supply industry has had a bee in its bonnet forever about this as it costs them millions that they can't easily pass onto domestic consumers. Once they've got the ability to meter it, unit costs will rise again.

Bought a house with a smeets1 meter fitted last summer.
The previous owner was on British gas. Me, edf.
Our power (switched) on moving day without problem.
Eight days later my supplier had fitted a smeets2 meter.

Totally painless and hassle free.

1. Avoid Scottish Power at all costs. An absolute shambles to deal with meanwhile the CEO keeps rewarding himself financially. Read Trust Pilot messages from people writing about the lives they are ruining with their sheer incompetence.
2. Try and avoid Eon.
3. Don’t fit a smart meter - they are only a benefit to the suppliers IMO.

2 companies I wouldn’t have anything with even if it was free for life:
Scottish Power
Talk Talk

Just not worth the stress if something goes wrong or you want to leave. Abysmal customer service.

Eddiebfc wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:02 am

Disappointing that a thread offering help has also included unfounded nonsense about smart meters. If anything smart pricing will allow users access to cheaper electricity at times of the day when usage is low. The idea that those without smart meters will pay a lower price than those with is completely bonkers.

Unfortunately at the moment the cheapest deal for anyone who is out of contract is the cap. This means that there will be substantial increases for almost all users. As has been said above it is important not to focus on the monthly DD offered but actually look at the price per KWh. The other good advice is to try to reduce usage. One way to do this is by monitoring your usage via a smart meter.

I agree regarding the smart meters there’s only 2 things which can result in high charges & that’s the price of the commodity going up in the first place & your usage increasing, you can actually argue having a smart meter facilitates in you tailoring the usage habits such as spikes when the kettles going on by putting less water in enough for 1 cup or accordingly to how many cups are needed & so forth without that information so accessible you become unaware.

dushanbe wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:12 am

A few reasons. Firstly, the overall plan is to be able to introduce dynamic charging. So when enough people have 'smart' meters the suppliers can go,

'Oh we've noticed you seem to use more electricity between 4pm and 10pm so we'll have to charge a premium for that. On the plus side, we've noticed you use hardly anything between midnight and 6am, so we will reduce the unit cost for those hours.'

The other issue I've got is a bit technical, but essentially they will be able to start charging for some of the generation and supply overheads that they can't do with normal dumb meters. The supply industry has had a bee in its bonnet forever about this as it costs them millions that they can't easily pass onto domestic consumers. Once they've got the ability to meter it, unit costs will rise again.

This is absolute nonsense like most of the other comments on Smart Meters in this discussion. I work in the Utilities industry and have been involved with Smart infrastructure on and off for the last decade and when I see how confidently people talk about something they know nothing about and completely get things wrongs it just shows me why places like the UK and the US are such a mess.

If every property had a Smets2 meter fitted then the cost of everyone's bills would come down immediately as it would reduce such a large cost to serve element of the the Suppliers costs. I had a conference with some CEO's from Direct Energy (US) and they could not believe the effort and cost that is spent on the billing side of the UK markets because of metering and reading enquiries linked to standard meters.

With regards TOU tarrifs we have always had this in the basic form of Economy 7 and anyone who has used this will tell you it is used in a positive way to allow people who use their electricity at quiet times to save money and encourage them to use as much as they can within this time period. If we could get the network to bill electricity in 30 mins intervals then the efficienceys we can realise are massive and again its not about getting more money out of people but giving people the choice to manage their electricity so it works for them (and the nextwork)

Finally whether you like Smart meters or you dont by refusing Smart you are simply increasing the costs for everyone. Suppliers are mandated and have to spend millions on their contact strategy to ensure they take "All Reasonable Steps" to meet their Smart targets (or face massive fines). These costs (including the fines) are passed directly onto the customer so every time you say no it just means that they will have to keep on spending money contacting and campaigning to you all so you are just increasing the costs of your own bills and everyone else's

Anyway above is an accurate view of Smart meters and my advice is that if there is one positive thing you can do to help reduce your own and other peoples bills then its get a Smets 2 meter fitted where you can. I'll leave it at this as not going to argue with people who dont know what they are talking about and so the tin foil wearing know nothings can contnue to spout their rubbish and as ever convince themselves and others to act against their own interests

dushanbe wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:12 am

A few reasons. Firstly, the overall plan is to be able to introduce dynamic charging. So when enough people have 'smart' meters the suppliers can go,

'Oh we've noticed you seem to use more electricity between 4pm and 10pm so we'll have to charge a premium for that. On the plus side, we've noticed you use hardly anything between midnight and 6am, so we will reduce the unit cost for those hours.'

The other issue I've got is a bit technical, but essentially they will be able to start charging for some of the generation and supply overheads that they can't do with normal dumb meters. The supply industry has had a bee in its bonnet forever about this as it costs them millions that they can't easily pass onto domestic consumers. Once they've got the ability to meter it, unit costs will rise again.

Hi dushanbe, smart meters will facilitate more granular pricing. The wholesale electricity has always bought and sold on 30 minute charging periods, so 48 half hours per day. These are then aggregated into 4 hour periods and 2 x 12 hour periods, peak and off-peak. Pricing is driven by supply and demand. Peak prices, Monday to Friday operate from 07:00 to 19:00. They align with the working day, when more offices, more shops and more manufacturing sites are operating. Within the 12 hour peak, the first 4 hours, 07:00 to 11:00 and the last 4 hours, 15:00 to 19:00 align with residential demand being higher as families start their day, including children getting up and going to school and, later, children and workers returning from school and work. Every football fan should also be familiar with the surge in electricity demand at half-time in the FA cup final (and other big games) when we all take a pause from the screen and switch our kettles on for a cup of tea.

As the country adds more wind turbines and, when the wind is right, not too little and not too much (turbines must be switched off when the wind speeds are too high), we will see more periods when wholesale electricity prices fall. Smart meters enable EV owners to charge overnight for free. Smart meters will also enable EV owners to sell electricity back to the grid when there is a surge in demand and their car is parked at home.

Dynamic pricing will also facilitate choosing when to use the washing machine or dishwasher. Shifting demand from high demand periods to low demand periods will be good for everyone.

Generation and supply overheads are all included in the prices we pay today. The wires and pipes still need to exist whether we use elec and gas once a day or all the time throughout the day and night. Similarly, we pay today for the generators to be on standby in case they are needed, perhaps when the wind isn't blowing to turn the turbines.

BTW: no one will ever see individual electricity pricing. You will never get a letter from your energy supplier saying "Oh we've noticed you seem to use more electricity between 4pm and 10pm so we'll have to charge a premium for that."

When I put my washing machine on at three in the morning it will go down well with the neighbours, it makes a right racket. Mind you they might club together for new bearings for it.

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:22 am

Hi jd, like you I'm with Octopus. I got an email from them yesterday telling me my 12 months fixed rate comes to an end soon and offering me new fixed rates. They are offering me a new 12 months fixed rate which is almost 2.4 times my existing monthly charge or a "loyal customer" rate has got something like 5% discount on this new rate, a little bit less than 2.3 times increase.

The email also mentions a Flexible Octopus rate - which will rise and fall as wholesale costs rise and fall. This rate appears to be lower than Ofgem's standard variable cap. Still, of course, an increase on my monthly direct debit. But, of course, it doesn't really matter how much the monthly direct debit is, the real charges are based on how much gas and elec we use. Come April, when the days get longer and the nights get shorter and, with a bit of luck, the weather gets warmer we won't burn as much gas and we won't need the lights on as long.

I want to check that Flexible Octopus falls within the scope of the Ofgem cap. If it does then that's what I'll be going with. Plus, watching what the gas and elec prices do as we move into summer. If the supply starts to balance with the demand we should experience falling wholesale prices. But, it's a big BUT.... What is going to happen between Russia and Ukraine? what will sanctions do to Russia? will Russian gas still flow into Europe? Will the US be able to step up more LNG supplies - while understanding that LNG is a lot more expensive than pipeline gas, because of all the costs of liquifying the gas and ship it by LNG carrier...

As sure as anything, next winter is coming. At present, Ofgem is expecting to raise the standard variable rate cap again in October - and the forward gas and elec prices say this is what industry is paying now for next winter when the days will be getting shorter and the nights longer and the weather colder....

Yes, a tough one...

Is that the flexible one or the agile one? The Agile one doesn't fall within the scope of the Ofgem cap https://octopus.energy/agile/

A few tips. Turn your washing machine down to 30C, and when your current dryer packs up or it on its last legs, buy a good heat pump dryer and cut your costs in half. If you haven't already done this, replace your lightbulbs to LEDs. Don't leave electrical appliances on standby, either flick the switch at the socket or unplug.

One other benefit of a smart meter is the display shows you up to the minute info on what your electricity is costing. Turn on your kettle and it will jump up by 30p an hour or something, similar with oven, etc.

Although it's fairly obvious what does cost, seeing the figures in real-time does make you think about how necessary the usage is.

With one thing and another, the world is a bit shite at the moment, isn't. Mondays don't help.

I live in Spain & had average electric bills of around 270 euro’s per month for 272sqm house which includes air con for cooling, heating & clothes dryer. The Spanish government have a deal in place where you go to an agent of you’re provider pay 10euro & they look at you’re usage & bills etc then re-align them to the governments deal that lasts for 2 years & they look at them again. My bills are now an average of 131 euro per month, the deal is based on fairness for user & limits the profits the provider can make, also the euro group pays less on the open market for power, shows what can be done when there is a will to do so.

There are some new LED strip lights, which can replace the tubed lights.
I fitted two in the kitchen and even turning both on my smart meter hardly registers and in increased used. The one in the garage shows significantly more on the smart meter.
Plus they are brighter.

aggi wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:54 am

Is that the flexible one or the agile one? The Agile one doesn't fall within the scope of the Ofgem cap https://octopus.energy/agile/

Thanks, aggi. That's helpful info. I've got quote from Octopus for "Flexible Octopus." I've not got a meter, yet - I have avoided until SMETS2 was proved. I think last time a supplier offered they wanted to install their first type, not guaranteed to be compatible whoever the supplier. I plan that my next car will be EV, but no hurry based on the low mileage I cover. So, "agile" isn't for me at the moment.

I've switched all my lamps to LEDs over the last couple of months. Taken a large box of halogens and earlier (so called) energy saver lamps to a charity store.

aggi wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:56 am

One other benefit of a smart meter is the display shows you up to the minute info on what your electricity is costing. Turn on your kettle and it will jump up by 30p an hour or something, similar with oven, etc.

Although it's fairly obvious what does cost, seeing the figures in real-time does make you think about how necessary the usage is.

How necessary putting the oven or the kettle on ?

Costs are going to go up a lot more

Christ, listening to Putin talking live isn't good for anyone hoping that somehow things are going to get better

TheOriginalLongsider wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:46 am

There is no point switching suppliers at the moment. Try and help yourself though. Octopus have been giving tips on how to reduce your usage. Some are obvious and some not. Some that have reduced my usage include understanding that electricity is cheaper than gas, so where possible use electricity to cook. I always use the electric kettle to boil water then pour it into pans. If you pour a bath and need to add cold water then your boiler setting is too high - turn down the hot water dial. Close doors on rooms that don’t need to be heated eg spare bedrooms. My usage is down about 20% as a result of these.

Your electricity is cheaper then your gas? My electricity is around four times the price of gas and a neighbours is five times more. I'm with Ecotricity - Electric - 32.8p; Gas 7.53p per Kw/Hr.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:49 pm

Costs are going to go up a lot more

Christ, listening to Putin talking live isn't good for anyone hoping that somehow things are going to get better

Didn’t watch and not going to discuss as I don’t want the thread to be pulled. Buts it’s not looking good.

Eddiebfc wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:02 am

Disappointing that a thread offering help has also included unfounded nonsense about smart meters. If anything smart pricing will allow users access to cheaper electricity at times of the day when usage is low. The idea that those without smart meters will pay a lower price than those with is completely bonkers.

Unfortunately at the moment the cheapest deal for anyone who is out of contract is the cap. This means that there will be substantial increases for almost all users. As has been said above it is important not to focus on the monthly DD offered but actually look at the price per KWh. The other good advice is to try to reduce usage. One way to do this is by monitoring your usage via a smart meter.

That's if you only look at it through a single perspective. The energy companies are having the rules changed so they get updated information from your smart meter every 30 minutes.They will have the ability to change your charging rate with 30 minutes notice.

Imagine you are in the middle of running your washer/dryer/dishwasher etc.

I am not saying you will pay less on the old meters, but I am saying you will be at the whim of unscrupulous power companies.