I've just noticed that there is a big disparity in the two leagues that feed into the conference.

The National North League boasts the following teams who have been full FL teams since the year 2000*:

Kidderminster Harriers
Hereford
Boston United
York City
Darlington
Chester

You can also add a couple of obscure teams who once had full FL status:

Gateshead
Gloucester City
Bradford PA

That makes a total 9 clubs* that once sported league status in National League North, 6 of them since 2000.

In the National League South only Maidstone United can boast a very brief spell in the league.

Why do you think this is?

* I know many of these are "phoenix clubs" but I'm classing them as a single entity

National League is the competitive league in the country. Too many teams ‘having a go’ then crumbling. The North/South thing is bizarre how they split the leagues too.

Of course Gloucester and Hereford aren't really northern teams. Nor is Kidderminster. The North-South divide in these leagues obviously depends on geography but for instance it looks like this year all three teams relegated from the National League will be southern clubs so quite how they will be accommodated I don't know.

There are more southern ex league teams in the National League.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/na ... ague/table

Southport also a FL team until 1978.

Gloucester???

I've not checked but I also imagine that Boston is further south than Hereford, Gloucester or Kidderminster.

It's not. But it's still hardly north.

Cross off Gloucester. They've never been in the league.

I always understood it was because if a Northern team gets promoted and a Southern team is relegated, they swap leagues regardless of geography. You cant guarantee 2 northern and 2 southern teams will be relegated. Otherwise they would have to redraw the leagues every season.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:18 pm

I've not checked but I also imagine that Boston is further south than Hereford, Gloucester or Kidderminster.

Not even close for Hereford (i think without Google maps’ing it)

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:15 pm

Gloucester???

dsr wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:47 pm

Cross off Gloucester. They've never been in the league.

You're quite right. I mixed them up with Glossop in my head.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:18 pm

I've not checked but I also imagine that Boston is further south than Hereford, Gloucester or Kidderminster.

Ahhhh we'll get into that classic debate about where the north/south divide actually is.

I'm annoyed because it never includes that buffer zone known as "the midlands" to the inhabitants.

In spite of geographical location Boston is definitely a more of a "northern" place than Hereford.

This is interesting. It's a list of former league clubs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... ague_clubs

Historically football has been dominated by teams in the North and Midlands. Just look at the founder members. The south has been playing catch-up. So now there are more league teams in the top 4 tiers from the South than ever before. The teams they have displaced are predominantly those from the North. Hence they are now in the lower tiers as you observe. It doesn’t mean the North is stronger. It ironically says the opposite. The south should and will continue to make inroads. Let’s hope it doesn’t stretch as far as Burnley.

Add to those from't north since 1947 Workington who replaced New Brighton, Scarborough Macclesfield and Bury who have all been in FL not to mention in earlier years Nelson Glossop NE Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare, Ashington, Darwen Burton Swifts, Durham, Loughborough, Stalybridge, Norrthwich and no doubt quite a few more

andyh wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:11 am

Historically football has been dominated by teams in the North and Midlands. Just look at the founder members. The south has been playing catch-up. So now there are more league teams in the top 4 tiers from the South than ever before. The teams they have displaced are predominantly those from the North. Hence they are now in the lower tiers as you observe. It doesn’t mean the North is stronger. It ironically says the opposite. The south should and will continue to make inroads. Let’s hope it doesn’t stretch as far as Burnley.

A good analysis andyh. However, I'm not convinced of the idea that the south will necessarily 'catch up' with the north. I think much more importance is placed on football and sport in the north and hopefully the culture of valuing football continues in the north.

For example, "by rights" Burnley should be far too small a town to support a club of our size, let alone one in the top flight.

Ditto Accrington Stanley - they have no "right" to be where they are whatsoever. The clubs below them (including many in the Conference North) are far "larger clubs" with more resources and bigger fanbases.

As you say, here's hoping the northern clubs keep the historic dominance, especially a particular club from E.Lancs who play in Claret & Blue.

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:15 pm

Add to those from't north since 1947 Workington who replaced New Brighton, Scarborough Macclesfield and Bury who have all been in FL not to mention in earlier years Nelson Glossop NE Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare, Ashington, Darwen Burton Swifts, Durham, Loughborough, Stalybridge, Norrthwich and no doubt quite a few more

Amazingly Burton are now on their fourth football league club. The current incarnation are Burton Albion. Their predecssors were:
Burton Swifts
Burton Wanderers
Burton United