It’s clear that Maxwel Cornet needs to play but finding his correct position in the team is proving quite tricky.

I don’t think he’s a centre forward nor do I think he’s a left winger in a 442 formation. Whilst playing up front last night he seemed to be playing centrally but on the right hand side and I don’t think this worked for him either.

I’m hoping Dyche keeps him up top but pushes him very high up on the left hand side. This will enable him to play in a more natural position to him, create an exciting overload on that side and perhaps the opportunity for McNeil to drift in-field a bit more.

Any thoughts on this and how the manager can make it work? Do we just keep playing him up front - will it come good?

When we signed him I thought he would play on the right wing. But it is clear that he only seems confident on the left hand side. Trouble is McNeil is wasted on the right. Maybe as you say playing a midfield of Cornet Mcneil Brownhill Cork and Lennon, with Weghorst up top on his own could work?

I’ve said it from the start that he’s not a striker. His best position is probably an advanced winger on the left or inside forward/winger on the right in a 4–1–2-2-1 / 4-2-3-1. From what I’ve seen, he’s most dangerous when making clever, well timed runs from deep and driving at players. Playing with his back to goal when we are in launch mode is just a no no, what are we expecting him to do? He’s not physical enough to play that striker role in Dyche’s system.

Cork
Brownhill mcneil
Lennon cornet
WW

Or

Lennon Brownhill Cork Cornet
McNeil
WW

Both systems have an extra body in the centre which allows for MC to push forward more and have cover if we lose the ball. Unfortunately in a Dyche 4-4-2 the framework doesn’t allow for them wide runs behind strikers, as when we lose the ball it’s difficult to be in the right position to track back. Either system is worth a go in a ‘free hit’ game against Chelsea.

I think him playing up front shows how much dyche thinks he has the attributes to play there. He’s obviously quick and has two great feet, but Dyche has mentioned before that he is physically very strong. He has all the attributes, including fantastic movement at times of an excellent forward (left, right, central doesn’t matter). He has obviously got some defensive ability to have played left back so much for Lyon, but I think his attacking output means if we can unlock it he will be a brilliant forward player.
However, it’s all well and good saying he wasn’t in the right position to succeed last night, but we didn’t have the ball on the floor in the final third once. To use a player like maxwel, and wout to an extent, to the best of their abilities, the midfield has to have the ball on the deck in the final third looking for passes, crosses or cut backs. Absolutely pointless hoofing it at wout to try and win a flick on - that might work once a season.

I am personally off the opinion that the only way Cornet fits into this side is by changing the formation.

He’s clearly not the type of player we are used to. He’s not going press and chase everything down like Weghorst.

If we want to get the best of him we need to play something like the below:

Brownhill, Cork (sitting deep), McNeil
Lennon, Weghorst, Cornet

In a 433 formation with Cornet and Lennon hugging the touchlines.

In reality I’m just not sure that gets the best out of the rest of the squad.

I honestly think we look a better side without him. He impressed with his flurry of spectacular goals early on but has offered precious little since. I understand he's struggling to get a level of fitness but I thought the team was much better balanced in the previous games without him. Offered absolutely nothing last night so I can't agree with the OP's suggestion right now that he has to play.

Sitting on the bench for the AON hasn't helped him at all

He's clearly a very good player, and we have to find a way to fit him into our system, but perhaps that is something that needs working on in a pre-season

He looked a bit lost last night, but its striking that he was in the right place for our two best chances

During the first few weeks when cornet scored he's 6 goals, McNeil was kinda given a free role in the hole to roam if you like, this I believe is the best set up to accommodate cornet, bear in mind nearly all cornets goals were spectacular kind of goals, this side of he's game seems to have dried up, and this set up has rather been disrupted since the arrival of weghorst, its quite a dilemma now to work out where best to play cornet, but one I feel dyche has to find a solution to and quick, but cornet does obviously provide a goalscoring threat played the right way. One thing is for sure, we need him to rediscover that threat ASAP, like on Saturday would be good.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:30 am

I honestly think we look a better side without him. He impressed with his flurry of spectacular goals early on but has offered precious little since. I understand he's struggling to get a level of fitness but I thought the team was much better balanced in the previous games without him. Offered absolutely nothing last night so I can't agree with the OP's suggestion right now that he has to play.

Its interesting because before he went away to AFCON / picked up the injury at Newcastle we looked a far better team with him in (the stats of points per game and goals per game back this up massively). Since AFCON though, as Dyche has said, he hasn’t been ‘Premier League fit’. Though at Brighton, when we played very well, I thought he was a threat before he went off.

I also think it’s harsh to judge him in games like yesterday and Watford at home when we resort to long ball hoofs, chasing down random loose bouncing balls, it’s simply never ever going to suit his game. In fact, did we improve at all when Jay came on? No, arguably worse as we conceded 2 goals.

Dyche also said he included him last night in the hope for some freshness / sharpness he felt we lacked at Palace (Jay was pretty ineffective then I thought).

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:35 am

Its interesting because before he went away to AFCON / picked up the injury at Newcastle we looked a far better team with him in (the stats of points per game and goals per game back this up massively). Since AFCON though, as Dyche has said, he hasn’t been ‘Premier League fit’. Though at Brighton, when we played very well, I thought he was a threat before he went off.

I also think it’s harsh to judge him in games like yesterday and Watford at home when we resort to long ball hoofs, chasing down random loose bouncing balls, it’s simply never ever going to suit his game. In fact, did we improve at all when Jay came on? No, arguably worse as we conceded 2 goals.

Dyche also said he included him last night in the hope for some freshness / sharpness he felt we lacked at Palace (Jay was pretty ineffective then I thought).

I get what your saying but I genuinely think we are playing more direct when Cornet plays, because people are expecting him to run the channels.

He’s shown flashes of brilliance but I am really struggling to see where he fits in this team. I actually Jay or Vydra would be a much better fit for the team right now

Had a poor game last night but he wasn't the only one. In simple terms he was on the wrong side of the pitch throughout the game. Playing more left with Dwight and Charlie Taylor around him should prove more beneficial. On the other hand what do I know? I'm only a punter and with the standard of some of the passing on show last night it wouldn't really matter.
Simple to say but the strikers have to do exactly that and the only save I recall Schmeichel making last night was from Roberts in the second half. Best team won but we have to re-group and go again. Perhaps this run of weekend/ midweek games are taking their toll?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:30 am

I honestly think we look a better side without him.

I commented on the other thread that the WW &JRod partnership looks better as I didn’t want to say we are better without him but it’s a close call at the moment.
Three changes in starting X1 and Ben Mee injury didn’t help but after all the praise they got for passing it around why have they gone into their shell again.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:39 am

I get what your saying but I genuinely think we are playing more direct when Cornet plays, because people are expecting him to run the channels.

He’s shown flashes of brilliance but I am really struggling to see where he fits in this team. I actually Jay or Vydra would be a much better fit for the team right now

Don’t necessarily agree with the first point, we played good football at Brighton when he started. Yesterday, due to our tiredness and sloppy/lazy passing plus Leicester’s excellent pressing of our defence, it forced us to go long too often. We just couldn’t play through midfield at all on the deck. Same with Watford at home when conditions were horrendous.

Agree with Jay or Vydra possibly being better fits up top right now with WW though as my post said earlier. MC would be good out wide if we played an advanced 8/half 10 like McNeil central as it would allow him to make those forward runs from deep more often IMO. To me that appears his strength, along with his clear quality in front of goal.

The football we played last night doesn't suit either Cornet or WW.

Might as well play Barnes and Jay Rod if we're going to carry on lumping it forward.

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:45 am

I commented on the other thread that the WW &JRod partnership looks better as I didn’t want to say we are better without him but it’s a close call at the moment.
Three changes in starting X1 and Ben Mee injury didn’t help but after all the praise they got for passing it around why have they gone into their shell again.

I think Cork has been an influence and that we missed him last night and I'd have played Jay Rod in preference to Cornet.

Cornet has shown he can score goals which is something we have struggled to do with any consistency . He can score from dangerous free kicks outside the box which nobody else in the team can do.
For these reasons he definitely needs to be in the side but not in a striking position which , judging solely from his difficulty keeping onside , is not working.
Where he plays is Dyche’s challenge and he hasn’t got much time to find the answer

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:30 am

I honestly think we look a better side without him. He impressed with his flurry of spectacular goals early on but has offered precious little since. I understand he's struggling to get a level of fitness but I thought the team was much better balanced in the previous games without him. Offered absolutely nothing last night so I can't agree with the OP's suggestion right now that he has to play.

Gotta agree with this. He upset the balance of the team last night. Perhaps his best position could be an attacking left or right back? He did play lots of games for Lyon at left back. However, we shouldn’t shuffle things around just to accommodate him.

Definitely needs to play and definitely needs to play out wide, left or right. He’s not a striker.

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:53 am

Gotta agree with this. He upset the balance of the team last night. Perhaps his best position could be an attacking left or right back? He did play lots of games for Lyon at left back. However, we shouldn’t shuffle things around just to accommodate him.

But apart from that, he's simply not playing well enough to warrant a place in the team but it seems many want to shuffle the team simply to accommodate an out of form player.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:58 am

But apart from that, he's simply not playing well enough to warrant a place in the team but it seems many want to shuffle the team simply to accommodate an out of form player.

He might be slightly out of form but he’s still our top scorer (by a distance) and arguably most technical player. It’s therefore not that daft to see why people and Dyche want him in the side.

MDWat wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:56 am

Definitely needs to play and definitely needs to play out wide, left or right. He’s not a striker.

Has he had a decent game out wide?

I think he’s looked better up top. I’m not sure he can hack our defensive responsibility the LM and RM have to commit to.

I stayed pretty quiet about Cornet. When he was scoring at the start of the season I thought he could look anonymous between the goals, but figured he’d grow into a more consistent contribution to the team. It hasn’t really happened though and, when goals dry up, I’m not sure what’s left.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:04 am

Has he had a decent game out wide?

I think he’s looked better up top. I’m not sure he can hack our defensive responsibility the LM and RM have to commit to.

Leicester away he was very good in the first half before injury.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:58 am

But apart from that, he's simply not playing well enough to warrant a place in the team but it seems many want to shuffle the team simply to accommodate an out of form player.

He isn’t playing well, agreed. And you wouldn’t want to pick him just for dead ball situations hoping we get a couple of edge of the box free kicks per game. Sadly no place for him at present in a team fighting to avoid the drop.

agreenwood wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:04 am

I stayed pretty quiet about Cornet. When he was scoring at the start of the season I thought he could look anonymous between the goals, but figured he’d grow into a more consistent contribution to the team. It hasn’t really happened though and, when goals dry up, I’m not sure what’s left.

Despite being totally different types of player, it's like you're describing Chris Wood.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:04 am

Has he had a decent game out wide?

I think he’s looked better up top. I’m not sure he can hack our defensive responsibility the LM and RM have to commit to.

Leicester away, Southampton away he scored from wide. Agree though if we persist with 4-4-2 then it limits his greatest asset of fast forward runs from deep, as that leaves him in a tough position to track back.

Arsenal at home when he came on as a sub on debut, Rochdale at home in the cup, Spurs home in the cup. All games he’s looked very good out wide. Yet to see him on the right either where he actually did the best at Lyon.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:58 am

But apart from that, he's simply not playing well enough to warrant a place in the team but it seems many want to shuffle the team simply to accommodate an out of form player.

I believe he’s only out of form because he’s not getting the ball in positions he can affect the game. He’s probably our best attacking player, but he looks out of form because he’s not getting a touch. Even last night he was our most likely to score and he wasn’t involved all game because he’s isolated. Wout is the same, good footballer but we’re not getting up the pitch in support of him because the midfield was so deep and ineffective.

I thought he was struggling to make an impact last night and for me we look more effective with Rodriguez supporting Weghorst. He seems to have difficulty in winning or holding the ball which suggests his best position is not as a striker. In fairness Leicesters midfield did not allow us to play through the lines and so we were restricted to using long balls which is never going to suit Cornet. At the moment I think he is best used as an impact sub.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:09 am

Leicester away, Southampton away he scored from wide. Agree though if we persist with 4-4-2 then it limits his greatest asset of fast forward runs from deep, as that leaves him in a tough position to track back.

Arsenal at home when he came on as a sub on debut, Rochdale at home in the cup, Spurs home in the cup. All games he’s looked very good out wide. Yet to see him on the right either where he actually did the best at Lyon.

I’m not sure he’s a winger. He’s neat and tidy, but doesn’t seem to want to carry the ball or get into positions to cross it. Whenever I’ve seen him out wide it’s been mainly simple sideways passes.

There’s plenty of time yet for him to grow into a role, but it’s hard to justify him starting at the moment.

Reminded me of when he started at Wolves-could not get involved, seemed to lack confidence and almost freezed in possession

Cornet is probably better coming off the bench as an impact player. With his pace and directness and with opposing players perhaps tiring, the last 30 minutes of a game could be the right time to introduce Cornet into a game.

He looked a little lost at times last night. At the moment I too think he’s upsetting the balance of the team, I also think Westwood is far too negative in possession, I’d like to revert back to Jay and VW with Cork in the middle alongside Brownhill.

T O N C R E

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:01 am

He might be slightly out of form but he’s still our top scorer (by a distance) and arguably most technical player. It’s therefore not that daft to see why people and Dyche want him in the side.

agreenwood wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:04 am

I stayed pretty quiet about Cornet. When he was scoring at the start of the season I thought he could look anonymous between the goals, but figured he’d grow into a more consistent contribution to the team. It hasn’t really happened though and, when goals dry up, I’m not sure what’s left.

Two totally different suggestions.

Yes, he is our top goalscorer, he's scored some spectacular goals, but they have dried up and I agree with ag in not being sure what's left. Right now, the way he's playing, he wouldn't get in my side. He's definitely not a striker and I'm not sure he's a winger either. I'm sure there's more to come from him but what is he doing right now that makes people want him in the side?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:49 am

Two totally different suggestions.

Yes, he is our top goalscorer, he's scored some spectacular goals, but they have dried up and I agree with ag in not being sure what's left. Right now, the way he's playing, he wouldn't get in my side. He's definitely not a striker and I'm not sure he's a winger either. I'm sure there's more to come from him but what is he doing right now that makes people want him in the side?

He has come from a side that passes to each other and back, to a side who lumps it forward and having to get the ball under control. Whilst you get closed down very quickly in this league. He brought the ball down with a couple of lovely touches but got swamped with no help.

His strengths are shooting, touch, passing, not being afraid in possession and finding a yard of space. Generally what all our other players struggle with.

Do we give up on that or try a game plan around it?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:49 am

Two totally different suggestions.

Yes, he is our top goalscorer, he's scored some spectacular goals, but they have dried up and I agree with ag in not being sure what's left. Right now, the way he's playing, he wouldn't get in my side. He's definitely not a striker and I'm not sure he's a winger either. I'm sure there's more to come from him but what is he doing right now that makes people want him in the side?

As I suggested on another thread, if he plays centrally behind Wout i think he would add unpredicatability to our attack, at the moment he is wasted up front because he isnt a traditional striker in a 4-4-2. We never play with a ten though so it is a stretch to imagine him ever playing there for us, shame though as i think it could work given two holding midfielders behind him.

I think it would be a much more clear cut decision if we had someone to replace him with. I don't think many would think of Barnes starting and, although Rodriguez looks good at times, it's difficult to look at his recent record and think he'll score the goals to keep us up.

It's fine margins though. If that pass from McNeil had been played a fraction earlier and Cornet had scored we probably wouldn't be having this discussion (or if he'd poked that chance the other side of the post).

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:58 am

He has come from a side that passes to each other and back, to a side who lumps it forward and having to get the ball under control. Whilst you get closed down very quickly in this league. He brought the ball down with a couple of lovely touches but got swamped with no help.

His strengths are shooting, touch, passing, not being afraid in possession and finding a yard of space. Generally what all our other players struggle with.

Do we give up on that or try a game plan around it?

Oh the old lump it forward crap again.

As other have said we lost the good shape and discipline we've had for the last 4 or 5 games.

The obvious difference has been the return of Jack Cork to form, which is no surprise because he is a great player in the 4-4-2.

In terms of Cornet, I don't know. What bothers me is a little lack of discipline and a reluctance to really get stuck in for second phase ball, which is a big issue in a 4-4-2.

In all honesty I thought he looked sharp enough against Watford he just doesn't look as though he knows how to play in a formation that is very geared to how Burnley play. It may take time and patience but at this point I don't think you could play him up front or replace either Mc Neil or Lennon because he just doesn't seem disciplined enough in the 4-4-2 - yet.

aggi wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:04 pm

It's fine margins though. If that pass from McNeil had been played a fraction earlier and Cornet had scored we probably wouldn't be having this discussion (or if he'd poked that chance the other side of the post).

Which one was this? I recall him having two chances. The goal, where I watched several times and thought he looked on but the VAR lines give a different view (not sure how reliable they are when viewed from different angles), but that was a pass from Lennon? And the one he poked wide. Was there another I’ve forgotten?

Personally I think he has to start up front with WW. He’s our only striker with real pace and will get better as he gets fitter/learns the league.

The formation is the problem not Cornet, his goals clearly show that there is a real player there if we tap into him right.

Not a striker. Completely pointless playing him there with how we currently play and the system we use. I also think we looked more balanced without him. He needs to be wide and/ or we change formation to accommodate him. As it stands I’d start Jay Rod with WW and put Cornet on the bench. He’s looked a different player since coming back from the Nations Cup.

Reading some of the opinions on this thread I wonder what some expect from Cornet.
I could understand it if he’d had a good run in the team lately and wasn’t doing it. This is not the case though.
He is one of our more progressive and technical players and it’s folly in my opinion to hold the view that he should be left on the sidelines at this most crucial stage of the season

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:06 pm

Oh the old lump it forward crap again.

Yesterday there was a lot of that, let’s be honest. He played well at Brighton when we scored 2 in the first half and passed the ball through the lines (Cork helped with that). Jay has done well, no doubt, but Cornet has literally scored more goals this season that Jay has in the past 2. Seen as though we are a team that struggles to score I want our best scorers firing. If that means getting Cornet up to match fitness quicker then…

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:11 pm

The formation is the problem not Cornet, his goals clearly show that there is a real player there if we tap into him right.

The goals were a fluke - he has never scored anything like the 6 in 10 he got prior to AFCON in his career.

We've just got 7 out of 9 points playing a solid 4-4-2 against 3 good sides.

How does that suggest we should start to build a side around Cornet? If anything the evidence points the other.

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:21 pm

The goals were a fluke - he has never scored anything like the 6 in 10 he got prior to AFCON in his career.

We've just got 7 out of 9 points playing a solid 4-4-2 against 3 good sides.

How does that suggest we should start to build a side around Cornet? If anything the evidence points the other.

All six goals were a fluke? Thats a stretch isnt it?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:06 pm

Oh the old lump it forward crap again.

How would you describe it?

The first 20 minutes against Spurs were brilliant for passing the ball about at pace and against a good side.

The players are capable.

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:21 pm

We've just got 7 out of 9 points playing a solid 4-4-2 against 3 good sides.

How does that suggest we should start to build a side around Cornet?

Absolutely. This is the challenge or conundrum as the OP describes it.

It doesn’t though diminish Cornet’s value to the side which is what I think you and others are doing with your criticism.

Rodriguez has to return to the side to support Weghorst because Cornet hasn’t the instincts to effectively do so. At the moment until Vydra is back in contention, Jay has earned the right.

The return to the side of Cork instead of Westwood gets us nearer the side that got the 7 points from 9 and I don’t see this as related to the Cornet issue.

If we are not careful by leaving Cornet on the bench we will not get the best out of him , simply because you deprive him of the opportunity to get match fitness.

I go back to this talk of McNeil and where he should play. Dyche rested him for one game I think and this is what I would like to see done again to accommodate Cornet. There are more goals in Cornet and McNeil is not creating or scoring.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:44 pm

Absolutely. This is the challenge or conundrum as the OP describes it.

It doesn’t though diminish Cornet’s value to the side which is what I think you and others are doing with your criticism.

Rodriguez has to return to the side to support Weghorst because Cornet hasn’t the instincts to effectively do so. At the moment until Vydra is back in contention, Jay has earned the right.

The return to the side of Cork instead of Westwood gets us nearer the side that got the 7 points from 9 and I don’t see this as related to the Cornet issue.

If we are not careful by leaving Cornet on the bench we will not get the best out of him , simply because you deprive him of the opportunity to get match fitness.

I go back to this talk of McNeil and where he should play. Dyche rested him for one game I think and this is what I would like to see done again to accommodate Cornet. There are more goals in Cornet and McNeil is not creating or scoring.

I mean McNeil put one on a plate for Cornet yesterday but apart from that...

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:46 pm

I mean McNeil put one on a plate for Cornet yesterday but apart from that...

I’m not sure whether you are commending McNeil or criticising Cornet for missing. Could be a sarcastic observation.
Whatever it is , a snapshot in a game will do nothing to further this argument. Just like the snapshot of McNeil missing a good shooting opportunity in the box because he wanted to put it on his good foot won’t.