Not been on here for a while so apologies if its already been covered.

I'm confused and frustrated with the obsession of McNeill coming inside and playing central. We all know he is heavily one footed so coming inside only reduces the areas that he can play in. All his best work has come when hugging the touchline, beating his man and delivering.

There is no surprise that his form has dipped significantly when he's opting to cut inside slot more, misplaced passes because he is so one footed that he can't shift his body quick enough. Holding onto the ball too long because he needs to get it on to his left foot.

For me, stay on the left, do your job and deliver balls in. Play to your strengths. If the strikers are not getting onto the end of them then that's not your fault.

*McNeil

He's probably only doing what the coaching team have told him to do.

He stayed on the left quite a lot I thought against Brentford. Tried to beat his man, got a few balls in and won quite a few corners, of which our delivery was then ridiculous. It’s just not quite as simple as ‘sticking on the left and whipping them in’, this is the Premier League not Sunday league. Due to his left footedness it’s quite obvious now for good defenders how to get blocks in, so he comes inside at times to try and find that space to get balls in.

That header that went wide was a result of him having to bend so low for his head to get to the ball. The alternative was to use his right foot which of course is not an option

gtclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:52 am

That header that went wide was a result of him having to bend so low for his head to get to the ball. The alternative was to use his right foot which of course is not an option

That header would have been difficult for a top centre-forward.
Could only just be considered as a chance, IMO.

gtclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:52 am

That header that went wide was a result of him having to bend so low for his head to get to the ball. The alternative was to use his right foot which of course is not an option

The header was missed, as he run in too fast at Westwoods Cross that always curls back. The timing was only inches off. At the front post it's not an easy chance for anyone, back post different story.

Header went wide because he shut his eyes, simple as that .

joey13 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:17 am

Header went wide because he shut his eyes, simple as that .

Second worse miss of the season that was. The first was his miss against Chelsea.

That header was 7 yards out, unchallenged, not a pinger of a cross , no defence even close to him to put him off. He shut his eyes, and what can only be described as fall over. He’s 22 not a kid. If he can’t head a football by now he never will.

gtclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:52 am

That header that went wide was a result of him having to bend so low for his head to get to the ball. The alternative was to use his right foot which of course is not an option

Is that the right foot he scored with at Brighton only for it to be ruled offside because it had hit Weghorst's arse on the way through?

How any player can get to 22 without any coaching to get him at least to pass /cross with his right is unbelievable to me

He can use his right, he's just better with his left, that's perfectly normal in football.

This complaint about McNeil is very regular, usually with the same people trotting out the same gripe.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:42 am

How any player can get to 22 without any coaching to get him at least to pass /cross with his right is unbelievable to me

Correct, you only have to look on here at the number of posters who can use both feet. Sadly most of those who mastered this and criticise someone for being left footed never got above Sunday league level. Strange isn't it

joey13 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:17 am

Header went wide because he shut his eyes, simple as that .

Only one thing simple on here mate sadly

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:52 am

Only one thing simple on here mate sadly

I beg to differ.

https://worldfootballindex.com/2020/11/ ... e-maldini/

Good article on two footed players, or the perceived lack of.

The numbers which jump out at me about Dwight this season, is he's got 0 goals, and 1 assist (against Brentford way back in October) that's simply not good enough in anyone's book.

And what happened to the bright young talent who burst onto the scene a few seasons and created excitement when he got on the ball, as it purely down to McNeil, or is it due to the coaching/management of his development, or rather lack of development sadly for him and us.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:17 am

The numbers which jump out at me about Dwight this season, is he's got 0 goals, and 1 assist (against Brentford way back in October) that's simply not good enough in anyone's book.

And what happened to the bright young talent who burst onto the scene a few seasons and created excitement when he got on the ball, as it purely down to McNeil, or is it due to the coaching/management of his development, or rather lack of development sadly for him and us.

In terms of minutes played McNeil's rate of assists has got worse year on year. His rate of goals scored dropped dramatically in 19/20 although it improved slightly in 20/21, despite being a long way short of his 18/19 average.

18/19
*****
1 assist every 320 minutes
1 goal every 533 minutes

19/20
*****
1 assist every 556 minutes
1 goal every 1673 minutes

20/21
*****
1 assist every 614 minutes
1 goal every 1536 minutes

21/22 (so far)
*************
1 assist every 2346 minutes
0 goals in 2346 minutes

I think it's quite hard not to look at the coaching of McNeil to be honest. As you said he was a very exciting and attacking player when he broke into the team, so he clearly has the talent and ability to score and create goals. For whatever reason that seems to be reducing every season and fans are right to ask questions as to why.

JohnMcGreal wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:41 am

In terms of minutes played McNeil's rate of assists has got worse year on year. His rate of goals scored dropped dramatically in 19/20 although it improved slightly in 20/21, despite being a long way short of his 18/19 average.

18/19
*****
1 assist every 320 minutes
1 goal every 533 minutes

19/20
*****
1 assist every 556 minutes
1 goal every 1673 minutes

20/21
*****
1 assist every 614 minutes
1 goal every 1536 minutes

21/22 (so far)
*************
1 assist every 2346 minutes
0 goals in 2346 minutes

I think it's quite hard not to look at the coaching of McNeil to be honest. As you said he was a very exciting and attacking player when he broke into the team, so he clearly has the talent and ability to score and create goals. For whatever reason that seems to be reducing every season and fans are right to ask questions as to why.

Decent research, but perhaps you could also post his defensive stats for an accurate picture of his overall game.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:08 pm

Decent research, but perhaps you could also post his defensive stats for an accurate picture of his overall game.

But McNeil isn't a defensive player. He is (or was) an attacking player. And for a team like us, which isn't particularly blessed with attacking talent, we really can't afford for one of the few creative players we've got to be converted into a workhorse who defends well. Those goals and assists are crucial for a team like us. Slowly chip that away and we're in trouble.

JohnMcGreal wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:15 pm

But McNeil isn't a defensive player. He is (or was) an attacking player. And for a team like us, which isn't particularly blessed with attacking talent, we really can't afford for one of the few creative players we've got to be converted into a workhorse who defends well. Those goals and assists are crucial for a team like us. Slowly chip that away and we're in trouble.

I totally agree with you.
However, it appears that McNeil is doing a fair amount of defending, particularly this season.
Not helped by Taylor being a bit off form (IMO, of course).

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:17 am

The numbers which jump out at me about Dwight this season, is he's got 0 goals, and 1 assist (against Brentford way back in October) that's simply not good enough in anyone's book.

And what happened to the bright young talent who burst onto the scene a few seasons and created excitement when he got on the ball, as it purely down to McNeil, or is it due to the coaching/management of his development, or rather lack of development sadly for him and us.

Any other PL manager would (a) be resting him (b) have the coaches working on him. After all he was deadly when he came on the scene, when we relied on his natural talent. Suspect the coaches have strerilised him. How would the current coaches have coped with Robbie Blake, Glenn Little and Chris Eagles in the same team

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:42 pm

Any other PL manager would (a) be resting him (b) have the coaches working on him. After all he was deadly when he came on the scene, when we relied on his natural talent. Suspect the coaches have strerilised him. How would the current coaches have coped with Robbie Blake, Glenn Little and Chris Eagles in the same team

Are you blaming the coaches for Roberts poor showing as well ? You bigged him up to levels way above his ability while he was out the side, complained he wasn't being picked when in hospital or injured and now very quiet about him once he has played a few games.

Funny isn't it?
How many players are virtually all right foot yet nobody comments, or perhaps don't notice?

McNeil was at Utd's academy from the age of 5 until 14.
If anyone's to blame for his inability to be equally good with both feet, it's Utd
Of all the players to come through their academy over the years, apart from Greenwood, I'd struggle to name any who're dual footed ability wise.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:44 pm

McNeil was at Utd's academy from the age of 5 until 14.
If anyone's to blame for his inability to be equally good with both feet, it's Utd
Of all the players to come through their academy over the years, apart from Greenwood, I'd struggle to name any who're dual footed ability wise.

As I’ve said to you before

McNeil can’t even trap the ball with his right foot and play simple passes with it.

Don’t be so daft - Lingard, Rash, McTominay all use both feet when dribbling and passing/receiving the ball

McNeil has a role to play before the end of the season. Giving him a rest for the next game or two is a must

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:51 pm

As I’ve said to you before

McNeil can’t even trap the ball with his right foot and play simple passes with it.

Don’t be so daft - Lingard, Rash, McTominay all use both feet when dribbling and passing/receiving the ball

McNeil can play a simple pass, I've seen him do it.
The problem is people having an unrealistic obsession with him being predominantly left footed and blinding themselves to the fact he can do the basics with his right foot.
Threads and comments about his alleged lack of right foot are one of the most common things on this forum.

It's always claimed Greenwood is dual footed, with equal ability in both.
It's never said about anyone else, they can all do things of varying levels

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:44 am

He can use his right, he's just better with his left, that's perfectly normal in football.

This complaint about McNeil is very regular, usually with the same people trotting out the same gripe.

I, for one, have never commented on him ever, but have watched in some dismay this season as to how blatantly one-footed he actually is. That he is a premier league footballer is testimony to him and his work ethic that makes up for his "deficiency." But let's not be in any doubt, I can't imagine any other footballer attempting to meet that cross with his head instead of his right foot, and it's because he instinctively does not want to use it.

I wholly agree this is down to the coaching staff. He should be staked to the ground with his left leg, able to turn in circles, and he should be subjected to having to control and play a multitude of balls coming at him with his right foot

NRC wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:24 pm

I, for one, have never commented on him ever, but have watched in some dismay this season as to how blatantly one-footed he actually is. That he is a premier league footballer is testimony to him and his work ethic that makes up for his "deficiency." But let's not be in any doubt, I can't imagine any other footballer attempting to meet that cross with his head instead of his right foot, and it's because he instinctively does not want to use it.

I wholly agree this is down to the coaching staff. He should be staked to the ground with his left leg, able to turn in circles, and he should be subjected to having to control and play a multitude of balls coming at him with his right foot

Deficiency?
Just wtf.....that's a daft comment.
His early years were at Utd, they're to blame for him never becoming dual footed of equal ability

NRC wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:24 pm

I wholly agree this is down to the coaching staff. He should be staked to the ground with his left leg, able to turn in circles, and he should be subjected to having to control and play a multitude of balls coming at him with his right foot

I like this bit.
or perhaps they should stick both his feet in a barrel of sand and get him heading the ball at various heights

Serious questions have to be asked of Dyche and the rest of the coaching staff about how a promising young talent looks like he's had the life sucked out of him.

Opposition defenders will have done there hone work on McNeil
If he’s playing on the left he will always try to go left will not come inside on his right If he’s on the right he will try cut inside and if the defender is as quick as him then he will pas the bal backwards which a lot on here are always commenting on
Could this be why he doesn’t play for United?

if we can get the balance right so he is actually allowed to attack he will destroy most teams in the Championship next season

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:37 am

if we can get the balance right so he is actually allowed to attack he will destroy most teams in the Championship next season

A year in the Champ may do him a lot of good. Surely get a lot more goals, assists and dominant performances. Give him the confidence. Thing is he’s one of a few for us that I think another PL team would come in for but we should demand 20-25m.

Much of the McNeil debate has been done to death, but there's one thing that I read persistently which I've never completely understood. It's the idea that if McNeil is as one footed as is suggested (I don't think he is, even if there may well be a confidence question there, but that's slightly besides the point), that it automatically follows that he can't play in the centre and can only play on the wing.

I don't follow that logic. It's probably true that many full backs have been one footed, because they tend to act as the "outside back", and most teams try and work space on the overlap so that the full back isn't per se required to beat a man.

But if you are playing further up the pitch, receiving the ball on the half turn and under pressure, it seems to me that if you are one footed and tight to the touchline, you have far fewer options than you do if you are in-field and are much more easily neutralised - because the touchline cuts down your options. Opponents know that you've only really got the option of going down the line and are waiting for it and use the touchline to limit room for manoeuvre. The only alternative for a left footed pass is to go backwards (guess what - McNeil does this a lot). Move that player in field and he's suddenly got the option of going either way and is less constrained, and so is a lot less predictable.

The last really one footed player who thrived on the wing I can recall was Beckham, but even he ultimately ended up playing more centrally, and as the game has got more athletic the very rudimentary idea of getting the ball wide and asking the wide player just to swing the ball in has become increasingly easy to stop, so I suspect that these days even he would be used rather differently.

Dwight has done well on the left in the past. But let’s be honest, any other side in the league would play him centrally. He is not a winger by any sense. He’s a good technical player, but he can’t go past people, cant get in behind, can’t finish clinically. He does however have a great pass/cross, good at finding space between the lines, good shot from distance. Everything about him points to playing in the 10, but we have done it ONCE. Even worse than that, he absolutely dominated Palace in the one game he played there, but it’s never happened again.

Iloveyoubrady wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:35 am

Dwight has done well on the left in the past. But let’s be honest, any other side in the league would play him centrally. He is not a winger by any sense. He’s a good technical player, but he can’t go past people, cant get in behind, can’t finish clinically. He does however have a great pass/cross, good at finding space between the lines, good shot from distance. Everything about him points to playing in the 10, but we have done it ONCE. Even worse than that, he absolutely dominated Palace in the one game he played there, but it’s never happened again.

Yep he ran that game against Palace. Think he was playing behind Vydra if I remember rightly. Though I’m sure he played there against City away once too (and also did well). It is baffling why it’s not been at least tried again.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:08 pm

Decent research, but perhaps you could also post his defensive stats for an accurate picture of his overall game.

And isn't that kind of the problem with McNeil? In his first season he came in and played with freedom, attacking at every opportunity with naivety (which in this case is a good thing!)

Now he's been coached to play 'the framework', the attacking side of his game was always going to diminish. Added to that our strikers aren't scoring and it's definitely going to impact on his assists if they're not putting chances away.

I should also add that I'm not criticising the 'framework', it's kept us in his league for a number of years against the odds, but for years now we've played with defensive wingers.

The lad has access to a multi million pound training complex for full time hours, i think its reasonable to suggest he should be working a lot on his right foot as well as everything else.

Id give him a break from the team and Put Cornet on his wing instead with Jay upfront with Weghorst.

I'm right footed and used to play on the right wing. I was once picked to play on the left wing so I took a ball out for an hour and practised on my own in a field, kicking with my left foot only. It really made a difference and in the match and those after it I got some crosses over with my left foot. Still a rubbish player, but almost equally as bad with either foot. Surely it can be done by top players if a non-skilful lad like I was could do it to some extent.

About 1 percent of players are equally as good with both feet so it's not unusual for a footballer to favour a specific foot. The issue with Dwight is the same as David Jones had, he's completely reluctant to use his right foot at all. Most players will use both even if one is worse than the other, its just that Dwight doesn't.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:25 pm

Deficiency?
Just wtf.....that's a daft comment.
His early years were at Utd, they're to blame for him never becoming dual footed of equal ability

exactly why is describing McNeil as having a deficiency with his right foot a daft comment? Isn't it universally accepted his right foot is deficient/less adequate/effective compared to his left?

I think we are now at the stage of goal and assist probability. With Dwight it is unlikely he will get more than 1 assist by May on current form. So for me it has to be Jay and Weghorst with Cornet wide.

Unrelated but that loss of Orsic and not getting Barkley done after he apparently decided to come last minute is looking like it could cost us. We can’t afford to keep flogging a dead horse in other positions. If we go down, Dwight’s off anyway, so it will make little difference.

NRC wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:01 pm

exactly why is describing McNeil as having a deficiency with his right foot a daft comment? Isn't it universally accepted his right foot is deficient/less adequate/effective compared to his left?

Do we use the same language for players who are right footed and do very little with their left?
The answer is no, I've never seen it used on here or elsewhere because it's never considered a bad thing if a right footed player is one footed.

This continued targeting on here of McNeil and him being primarily one footed is bizarre, it always has been, but it keeps happening.

boyyanno wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:44 pm

About 1 percent of players are equally as good with both feet so it's not unusual for a footballer to favour a specific foot. The issue with Dwight is the same as David Jones had, he's completely reluctant to use his right foot at all. Most players will use both even if one is worse than the other, its just that Dwight doesn't.

He does, but you're not seeing it.
What you're expecting is sweeping crosses with his right, when all he does is accept it and move it on short distances which is perfectly fine.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:31 pm

He does, but you're not seeing it.
What you're expecting is sweeping crosses with his right, when all he does is accept it and move it on short distances which is perfectly fine.

I disagree, the reason he spends so much time turning in circles, even if it does work out sometimes, is because he is reluctant to use his right foot at all. I'm not saying he never ever uses it, but he favours his left to the point he would rather turn his man full circle to keep it on his left side. I don't expect sweeping crosses or goals, but it would be nice to see him being a little braver and using his right a little more. David Jones used to do the same thing. Both good players though.

Like I said very few players are equally proficient with both feet, but some are definitely more reluctant than others imo.

It's not so much his perceived one-footedness that frustrates me, it's his inability to see the pass was on about 3 seconds before he actually releases it (if at all). Sometimes, I just wish he'd stop paying homage to Winston White and pass the bloody thing.

NRC wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:01 pm

exactly why is describing McNeil as having a deficiency with his right foot a daft comment? Isn't it universally accepted his right foot is deficient/less adequate/effective compared to his left?

If his right foot was "deficient" wouldn't he keep falling over?