New pundit on MOTD2

[CaptainKirk]

Joined it from halfway through - who was the new pundit?
Not often I am stumped but could not place him at all?

[quoonbeatz]

Nedum Onuoha. He's on 5Live a lot and is one of the best new pundits.

[SalisburyClaret]

He's that rare thing - an intelligent football pundit

[Bosscat]

Soccer am used to have a cardboard cut out chair of him and called it the lap of Onouha if memory serves back in the Helen Chamberlain/Max Rushden days

[bobinho]

Yeah sounds very knowledgeable.

A nice change from muppets like Morrison, crooks and Sutton who are just…. Well…. Bizarre.

[Rileybobs]

Haven’t seen him on MOTD but he’s great on Five Live and the Football Weekly podcast.

[TheFamilyCat]

Did some of the AFCON as well I think.

[Rileybobs]

And ticks a box too.

He ticks a couple of boxes that you don’t, most notably the one marked ‘intelligent’.

[SouthLondonexile]

Very good pundit indeed.
I was only thinking the other day how I miss Garth Crooks though.

[JohnMac]

Efan Ekoku is another pundit that deserves more prime time.

[colne-claret]

And ticks a box too.

What a dick.

[Rileybobs]

I don’t understand why the racists are allowed to continue posting on here. Surely it warrants a permanent ban?!

[Red Fox Rocks Socks]

Efan Ekoku is another pundit that deserves more prime time.

Ekoku deserves more airtime just for him saying how good nick pope is between the sheets

[Bosscat]

Very good pundit indeed.
I was only thinking the other day how I miss Garth Crooks though.

Use both barrells and you wouldn't miss though ...

[Jakubclaret]

I don’t understand why the racists are allowed to continue posting on here. Surely it warrants a permanent ban?!

It hardly constitutes racism it’s a fact some people are overlooked by others & discriminated, the 4 perceptive, associative, direct & indirect aren’t always straightforward, candidates should get the job based on merit irrespective of any discrimination.

[what_no_pies]

And ticks a box too.

You come across as ignorant and that's being very polite.

[Rileybobs]

It hardly constitutes racism it’s a fact some people are overlooked by others & discriminated, the 4 perceptive, associative, direct & indirect aren’t always straightforward, candidates should get the job based on merit irrespective of any discrimination.

Stating that a black person, who is qualified for and competent at a job, has got that job because they ‘tick a box’ very much constitutes racism.

[Rileybobs]

The very fact that someone has even considered Onuoha’s skin colour as relevant shows what ignorant, bigoted fools we live amongst.

[Jakubclaret]

Stating that a black person, who is qualified for and competent at a job, has got that job because they ‘tick a box’ very much constitutes racism.

I can’t comment on the gentleman’s qualifications, but I do realise quotas need fulfilling & sometimes other people can get overlooked who perhaps could be more suitable. It’s the world we are living in I’m not bothered who gets the job but I think it should be based on merit & not meeting quotas or box ticking. If you are good enough no colour, gender, sex or disability should harm your chances of success.

[Rileybobs]

I can’t comment on the gentleman’s qualifications, but I do realise quotas need fulfilling & sometimes other people can get overlooked who perhaps could be more suitable. It’s the world we are living in I’m not bothered who gets the job but I think it should be based on merit & not meeting quotas or box ticking. If you are good enough no colour, gender, sex or disability should harm your chances of success.

Why are you waffling on then?

[Jakubclaret]

Why are you waffling on then?

I wasn’t aware I was, you initially took umbrage not me!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I always enjoy listening to him on 5live, he tends to come across quite well, good analysis and opinions etc and has a good rapport with his fellow presenters.
I prefer him over someone like O'Hara

Appears to be over in the USA quite regularly, not sure if that's to watch the NFL or for MLS stuff.
I can't remember which NFL team he supports, I know he's mentioned it.

[Marty Dobson]

That didn't take long then. I dread to think how tetchy things will get on here before end of season.

[Swizzlestick]

Yes, he was excellent - confident and actually provided proper tactical analysis.

[colne-claret]

That didn't take long then. I dread to think how tetchy things will get on here before end of season.

People deserve to be called out when they put on comments that could be deemed as racist. What world are we living in where people think a footballer on a sports program is there to 'tick a box'. It's out of order.

[Milltown1882]

People deserve to be called out when they put on comments that could be deemed as racist. What world are we living in where people think a footballer on a sports program is there to 'tick a box'. It's out of order.

Bang on. Onuoha is an excellent pundit and has been for years. But some people are obsessed with box ticking being an actual thing.

[Wile E Coyote]

not long ago there were barely any black or female sports pundits on radio and tv, now there are lots and lots.
tick in a box might be a crass expression, but to say there hasnt been a concerted effort to very swiftly employ them is stupid. that's not racist by any stretch of the imagination. To suggest it is is plainly ignorant and wholly incorrect.

[gandhisflipflop]

I don’t understand why the racists are allowed to continue posting on here. Surely it warrants a permanent ban?!

Because people are posting opinions. The fact you deem them racist, says more about you. Nobody has said anything remotely racist on this thread and I’m glad we have mods that allow differing points of view.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

I always enjoy listening to him on 5live, he tends to come across quite well, good analysis and opinions etc and has a good rapport with his fellow presenters.
I prefer him over someone like O'Hara

Appears to be over in the USA quite regularly, not sure if that's to watch the NFL or for MLS stuff.
I can't remember which NFL team he supports, I know he's mentioned it.

Finished his career with 2 years at Real Salt Lake and then got a job on the ESPN FC show before moving home. Still does satellite link stuff for the show.

[Rileybobs]

Because people are posting opinions. The fact you deem them racist, says more about you. Nobody has said anything remotely racist on this thread and I’m glad we have mods that allow differing points of view.

If you can't see how someone claiming that Nedum Onuoha has got a job with the BBC because it 'ticks a box' is racist then it very much says more about you than me. Everyone is allowed an opinion, everyone is allowed to have racist views - what they shouldn't be allowed to do is freely post such views on a BFC messageboard.

The mods have deemed fit to delete the racist post and in my opinion should deal with people who post such views a lot more harshly.

[JohnMcGreal]

Because people are posting opinions.

Racist and ignorant opinions.

[JohnMcGreal]

Onuoha is very good, one of the best pundits around at the minute.

[gandhisflipflop]

If you can't see how someone claiming that Nedum Onuoha has got a job with the BBC because it 'ticks a box' is racist then it very much says more about you than me. Everyone is allowed an opinion, everyone is allowed to have racist views - what they shouldn't be allowed to do is freely post such views on a BFC messageboard.

The mods have deemed fit to delete the racist post and in my opinion should deal with people who post such views a lot more harshly.

It isn’t racist. If you can’t see how corporations such as the BBC SKY etc are going out of their way to place greater emphasis on BAME status and filling quotas then you are incredibly naive. The problem with this is that Nedum Onuaha may well be incredibly good at his job and very well qualified and may have got the job in sensible times however because of what that major corporations are doing, it gets lost in all the box ticking nonsense. For the record I am NOT saying that this is definitely the case here. It is not racist to say that and by crying racism you are stifiling any sort of sensible debate, which is sadly common in today’s society.

[gandhisflipflop]

Racist and ignorant opinions.

Quote which bit is racist?

[Devils_Advocate]

not long ago there were barely any black or female sports pundits on radio and tv, now there are lots and lots.
tick in a box might be a crass expression, but to say there hasnt been a concerted effort to very swiftly employ them is stupid. that's not racist by any stretch of the imagination. To suggest it is is plainly ignorant and wholly incorrect.

Has it never occurred to you that not long ago there were barely any black or female sports pundits on radio and tv because of the racism and sexism that existed in the sport and our society which held these people back even though on merit they should have been getting these jobs.

Now these kind of attitudes are becoming less acceptable (UTC messageboard excluded) and the opportunities are becoming available and we are starting to see black and female role models succeeding in these roles then naturally there is going to be a heavy influx of black and female presenters to start to give it more a natural balance.

It now looks the white male people who are in these roles or aspiring to progress are actually going to have to prove their worth and not just get the job over a female or black person because of society's bigoted prejudices.

[Rileybobs]

It isn’t racist. If you can’t see how corporations such as the BBC SKY etc are going out of their way to place greater emphasis on BAME status and filling quotas then you are incredibly naive. The problem with this is that Nedum Onuaha may well be incredibly good at his job and very well qualified and may have got the job in sensible times however because of what that major corporations are doing, it gets lost in all the box ticking nonsense. For the record I am NOT saying that this is definitely the case here. It is not racist to say that and by crying racism you are stifiling any sort of sensible debate, which is sadly common in today’s society.

I'm stifling debate, whereas the person who's only contribution to the thread was to say that the BBC had ticked a box by employing Onuoha is just posting his opinion? Hilarious.

If you can't see how someone bringing up his race, a totally irrelevant characteristic in the context of this particular discussion, is racist, then there's no point discussing this with you. Using terms like 'crying racism' to undermine anyone calling out prejudice and bigotry does you absolutely no favours.

[Clarky]

Yes, he was excellent - confident and actually provided proper tactical analysis.

I agree, well spoken and lucid analysis.A refreshing change from the usual suspects.!!

[gandhisflipflop]

I'm stifling debate, whereas the person who's only contribution to the thread was to say that the BBC had ticked a box by employing Onuoha is just posting his opinion? Hilarious.

If you can't see how someone bringing up his race, a totally irrelevant characteristic in the context of this particular discussion, is racist, then there's no point discussing this with you. Using terms like 'crying racism' to undermine anyone calling out prejudice and bigotry does you absolutely no favours.

You are asking for removal of content which doesn’t conform with your own opinions. That is stifling debate. Keep the content on there, people are then free to agree or disagree. You say I’m undermining people by using terms like ‘crying racism’ yet in the same sentence you use the terms ‘bigotry’ you hypocrite. I’ve already seen the term ‘ignorant’ thrown about. I’m waiting on ‘uneducated’ for a holier than thou full house.

[Rileybobs]

You are asking for removal of content which doesn’t conform with your own opinions. That is stifling debate. Keep the content on there, people are then free to agree or disagree. You say I’m undermining people by using terms like ‘crying racism’ yet in the same sentence you use the terms ‘bigotry’ you hypocrite. I’ve already seen the term ‘ignorant’ thrown about. I’m waiting on ‘uneducated’ for a holier than thou full house.

Show me where I've asked for removal of any content. I haven't even complained about the post, because what seems to happen is the post is deleted and the poster is then free to continue to spread their bigoted views after presumably a very nominal ban. I'd rather the posts remain and the posters with such views are highlighted and taken to task.

Yes, I used the term bigotry to refer to the posting of racist views - not sure what's hypocritical about that.

[Zlatan]

to anyone suggesting that the comment "box ticking" isn't racist can I draw your attention to the term Unconscious Bias.

Taken from a google search and the top link this is a better description of it that I could write.

Unconscious biases, or implicit biases, are attitudes that are held subconsciously and affect the way individuals feel and think about others around them. Subconscious attitudes aren’t necessarily as well-formed as coherent thoughts, but they can be very ingrained. Many people have unconscious biases that have been with them since childhood, which they absorb by observing their social, familial and institutional environments. Unconscious biases can color the emotional and rational responses of individuals in everyday situations and affect their behavior.

There are many types of unconscious biases. Some of the most common are biases in how individuals regard their own thought processes and reasoning abilities, such as focusing on negative qualities of individuals that align with one’s existing attitudes — like in confirmation bias and affirmation bias.

Other unconscious biases are directly related to how other people may look. These types of biases tend to rely on stereotypes and can result in discriminatory practices when people are not treated like individuals, such as racism, ageism and beauty bias.

There are also unconscious biases that stereotype people based on how they behave — even though these types of biases aren’t commonly talked about, holding these biases can result in discriminating against people based on their personalities.

The problem here is that those who see no wrong in using the term "box ticking" will also think that they are also not racist, after all it is a nasty label to have applied to yourself isn't it. So you'll go all out to defend the "box ticking" argument because you too dont want to be seen as racist - it's a normal response because you have someone saying you're a nasty person, it happens a lot on this forum.

Now the reason that the "box ticking" is perceived as racist is because its a subconscious thought process that the person who raised it went through. They thought "well, they certainly ticked a box there" because the presenter is black when the reality is that the recruitment process will certainly not have a box indicating race as part of the selection process. So subconsciously that person has expressed a racist thought without considering it to be a racist thought because why would they. The problem arises (especially on this forum) when it is identified for what it is (a mistake in reality) and then all Hell breaks loose discussing that instead of the actual topic of conversation which is "MOTD2" has a very good new presenter, which he is.

I'll urge anyone who thinks box ticking isn't racist to go away and read up on the subject of Unconscious Bias and take it on board. To those who identified the term as racist also need to go and read it because I am sure you don't really want to have tit for tat arguments every time someone makes a mistake by falling into the subconscious racism issue, it would be much better served to be polite and try to redirect the other forum user's train of thought instead.

have a good day all

[rufus lumley]

His Podcast Kickback with Nedum is excellent.

[gandhisflipflop]

Show me where I've asked for removal of any content. I haven't even complained about the post, because what seems to happen is the post is deleted and the poster is then free to continue to spread their bigoted views after presumably a very nominal ban. I'd rather the posts remain and the posters with such views are highlighted and taken to task.

Yes, I used the term bigotry to refer to the posting of racist views - not sure what's hypocritical about that.

You are shifting the goalposts. You wrote:

“ I don’t understand why the racists are allowed to continue posting on here. Surely it warrants a permanent ban?!”

How are they going to carry on offering an opinion if you want a permanent ban. I’m referring to you calling people bigots and at the same time accusing me of ‘undermining’ by using the terms I’ve used. You can’t have it both ways.

[gandhisflipflop]

to anyone suggesting that the comment "box ticking" isn't racist can I draw your attention to the term Unconscious Bias.

Taken from a google search and the top link this is a better description of it that I could write.



The problem here is that those who see no wrong in using the term "box ticking" will also think that they are also not racist, after all it is a nasty label to have applied to yourself isn't it. So you'll go all out to defend the "box ticking" argument because you too dont want to be seen as racist - it's a normal response because you have someone saying you're a nasty person, it happens a lot on this forum.

Now the reason that the "box ticking" is perceived as racist is because its a subconscious thought process that the person who raised it went through. They thought "well, they certainly ticked a box there" because the presenter is black when the reality is that the recruitment process will certainly not have a box indicating race as part of the selection process. So subconsciously that person has expressed a racist thought without considering it to be a racist thought because why would they. The problem arises (especially on this forum) when it is identified for what it is (a mistake in reality) and then all Hell breaks loose discussing that instead of the actual topic of conversation which is "MOTD2" has a very good new presenter, which he is.

I'll urge anyone who thinks box ticking isn't racist to go away and read up on the subject of Unconscious Bias and take it on board. To those who identified the term as racist also need to go and read it because I am sure you don't really want to have tit for tat arguments every time someone makes a mistake by falling into the subconscious racism issue, it would be much better served to be polite and try to redirect the other forum user's train of thought instead.

have a good day all

Subconscious bias I’m well aware of ‘subconscious bias’ and what it is (there is training provided in the workplace). This has nothing to do with it.

[Jakubclaret]

Subconscious bias I’m well aware of ‘subconscious bias’ and what it is (there is training provided in the workplace). This has nothing to do with it.

It’s more to do with somebody being over sensitive & quite frankly making a mountain out of a molehill.

[TheFamilyCat]

It can't be coincidence that two posters who are so vocal in their opposition of taking the knee are the ones defending a racist post, can it?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Subconscious bias I’m well aware of ‘subconscious bias’ and what it is (there is training provided in the workplace). This has nothing to do with it.

Doesn't it?
If the first thing someone says is "box ticking" then yes there is a bias, subconscious or otherwise

[Rileybobs]

You are shifting the goalposts. You wrote:

“ I don’t understand why the racists are allowed to continue posting on here. Surely it warrants a permanent ban?!”

How are they going to carry on offering an opinion if you want a permanent ban. I’m referring to you calling people bigots and at the same time accusing me of ‘undermining’ by using the terms I’ve used. You can’t have it both ways.

Well of course, if someone keeps posting racist views then they should be permanently banned, would you not agree? I haven't shifted any goalposts as I haven't asked for removal of content which is what you claimed.

What do you mean I can't have it both ways?
1.)People who hold racist views are bigots.
2.)People who use the term 'crying racism' at someone for pointing out actual racism is an attempt to undermine the issue.
How is that even slightly hypocritical?

I think you're getting yourself into a bit of a muddle.

[gandhisflipflop]

Well of course, if someone keeps posting racist views then they should be permanently banned, would you not agree? I haven't shifted any goalposts as I haven't asked for removal of content which is what you claimed.

What do you mean I can't have it both ways?
1.)People who hold racist views are bigots.
2.)People who use the term 'crying racism' at someone for pointing out actual racism is an attempt to undermine the issue.
How is that even slightly hypocritical?

I think you're getting yourself into a bit of a muddle.

But you are setting the boundaries of what you perceive to be racism. I’m not in any muddle at all, you are calling for bans for people who hold an alternate point of view that is, in your opinion, racist. Saying you are ‘crying racism’ isn’t undermining you, it is pointing out your overreaction (in my opinion) to a statement made earlier in the thread. You then go on to call these people bigots, which is the usual go to insult.


Anyway. I can’t really be arsed wasting any more time with this. Nobody’s opinions are going to be changed by it anyway.

[gandhisflipflop]

Doesn't it?
If the first thing someone says is "box ticking" then yes there is a bias, subconscious or otherwise

But corporations do appear to box tick (whether it is in this case or not I don’t know, like I say he probably is a good pundit) and they are responsible for people reacting in this way, by continuing to do so.

[Rileybobs]

But you are setting the boundaries of what you perceive to be racism. I’m not in any muddle at all, you are calling for bans for people who hold an alternate point of view that is, in your opinion, racist. Saying you are ‘crying racism’ isn’t undermining you, it is pointing out your overreaction (in my opinion) to a statement made earlier in the thread. You then go on to call these people bigots, which is the usual go to insult.


Anyway. I can’t really be arsed wasting any more time with this. Nobody’s opinions are going to be changed by it anyway.

I'm not setting any boundaries of what I perceive to be racism. I am able to understand the literal definition of the word and apply this to real-world examples, such as the post by Claretitus. I don't set any boundaries, racism is racism whether you perceive it to be or not.

You've lost your way entirely by trying to defend a racist post. I said;
'Using terms like 'crying racism' to undermine anyone calling out prejudice and bigotry does you absolutely no favours.'
So I haven't called anyone a bigot have I. You've just got yourself into a muddle.