That's abysmal reading

Small margins.

We're still learning.

Hearts and minds

Definition of consistency

Playing as though football hasn't evolved the last thirty years. We've been doing that since Dyche arrived, to be honest, but at least the $hithouse 'get stuck in' attitude borrowed from the 80's helped us produce results because we were usually the cheeky b@stards who were murder to play against and who found a way to win. That mindset seems to have disappeared for more than a season now. Afraid to even attempt to take any initiative in most games. We sit and wait for the inevitable, and heads drop too easily. I'm dreading Everton, honestly.

Are they some of the ‘details’ that Sean refers to that we need to iron out?

Wow,consistent stats like that deserve a massive contract for the manager and a long term deal. Keep up the good work.

People say you can make stats look however you want.....I challenge anyone to put a good spin on that one.
Pretty startling that one.

Must be Garlicks fault obviously

alboclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:33 am

People say you can make stats look however you want.....I challenge anyone to put a good spin on that one.
Pretty startling that one.

Spijed will

And people wonder why a promising young player like McNeil is going backwards.

Nonayforever wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:34 am

Must be Garlicks fault obviously

The fact that no investment into the playing squad left Dyche with the same players who are incapable of playing any other way and now have aged. That of course has nothing to do with Garlck. The buyout which has left the club in financial dire straits has nothing to do with Garliick. Mike Garliick has put a high explosive time bomg under the club and got out of the way

This is why we need relegation to happen. If we stay up by some miracle then nothing will change.

We need a complete overhaul in terms of squad, style and management for the long term benefit of the club.

gtclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:29 am

The fact that no investment into the playing squad left Dyche with the same players who are incapable of playing any other way and now have aged. That of course has nothing to do with Garlck. The buyout which has left the club in financial dire straits has nothing to do with Garliick. Mike Garliick has put a high explosive time bomg under the club and got out of the way

you are seriously blaming Mike Garlick for us playing like a non-league team?

The fact we are 98th in each category is highly suspect

Huge indictment.

It’s was stale, now just a downward trajectory.

Dyche’s time is up- it’s been 10 years and he hasn’t evolved in the slightest.

Fantastic man manager but extremely questionable tactically; both in setting the team up and in game changes.

I’d probably keep him if we went down but the premier league is a different kettle of fish these days - we need a more progressive manager

alboclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:33 am

People say you can make stats look however you want.....I challenge anyone to put a good spin on that one.
Pretty startling that one.

The only way is up those tables. Surely that's a positive!

Maybe now we know why a top club, or even lower, has never come in for him. He also knows if he goes to another club and hits a bad run he will be out instantly

https://www.whoscored.com/Statistics

All the stats are available here, the above snapshop is very selective to push an agenda.

We've belied those figures on occasions this season, but not in the fixtures that matter.
I think the Newcastle and Leeds performances were pitiful, under the circumstances, and after Brentford I think the players know the game is up.

Everton only 6 points away all season, but I'm expecting to get beat tonight, sadly.
If relegation is inevitable, then we have to make the most of it to rebuild the squad. We carry too many players whose best years are behind them, they will always be legends for what they've done for us, but it's time to move on. We need to blood the youngsters who are up for the fight, and find the one or two nuggets that we can rebuild the team around.

We’ve won under 10 league games in 15 months.

There aren’t going to be many statistical records that we stack up positively against.

That’s unbelievable.

I knew the way we play was absolutely horrific but even I didn’t think it was that bad. There is no defending that.

But apparently there are no other managers around who’d be able to do a better job…

It's really poor reading - there's been a very clear regression in our play over the last couple of seasons or so and it needs sorting whatever league we're in.

nyclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:22 am

But apparently there are no other managers around who’d be able to do a better job…

...and as we know, no players in the whole of world football who would improve us assuming they'd even want to come to play for us for 30k a week.

I've used the seat-swap period to move to the back of the JM Upper tier which should mean I can admire our looping defence-to-channel hopeful high balls without straining my neck too much next season.

claret2018 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:34 am

This is why we need relegation to happen. If we stay up by some miracle then nothing will change.

We need a complete overhaul in terms of squad, style and management for the long term benefit of the club.

The problem is although Sean Dyche did well in the early day's this problem has been instilled by him, unless he goes back to the tactics he used to take us into the prem in the first place "ref Ashley barnes goal v Wigan" then he's time is up, he has talked on several occasions for quite some time about overthinking thing's, it's exactly what he's doing as far as I see it with regards to tactics etc. He himself has said only this week that he simply wants he's player's to kick the ball in the net, and has stated that it's not rocket science as such, but throughout this season at least he's tactics have been nothing else but to defend, as I have said on other threads recently, he has to allow he's strikers to strike and he's defenders to defend, in other words not coach he's strikers to defend first, their there to score goals fgs, so stop putting pressure on them to defend first, he's defender's are there to do that but are clearly not doing their job. Either way relegated /survive dyche has to change the way he's thinking.

nyclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:22 am

But apparently there are no other managers around who’d be able to do a better job…

The biggest myth regarding Burnley fans this. Along with players being too good for us, and us not being able to compete. With such defeatist attitudes among our fan base, who needs opponents?

I’m honestly bored of the tactics (or lack of). I’d rather we had a fresh approach. I’m going on tonight, but I’ve had to psyche myself up to go rather than itching to get on. Another inept performance and I’m done.

My take on it is that we have let leads slip and lost or drawn. We have brought two forwards in who have sadly only briefly shone and on top of that we have a midfield who have really lost their spark.
All in all disappointing.

Not surprised at all

Should have gone 18 months ago

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:37 am

The biggest myth regarding Burnley fans this. Along with players being too good for us, and us not being able to compete. With such defeatist attitudes among our fan base, who needs opponents?

I reckon our fans must be some of the least ambitious in the country

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:11 am

And people wonder why a promising young player like McNeil is going backwards.

Literally!

I would rather watch Burnley, always aiming for chance creation, rather than Brighton, for example, who bore the pants off you.

Yes we give the ball away too much, however. There are also times when we penetrate with excellent, swift passing.

Up the Clarets

We’ve needed a player to carry the ball out of defence and set up passing opportunities.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:46 am

I would rather watch Burnley, always aiming for chance creation, rather than Brighton, for example, who bore the pants off you.

Yes we give the ball away too much, however. There are also times when we penetrate with excellent, swift passing.

Up the Clarets

Each to their own but I’d swap Brighton’s style of football for ours tomorrow without thinking. Then again I prefer football played on the deck and seeing my team pass to each other.

We did Ian, at times we could be devastating but those times have gone, or so it would appear. Age brings decline and we need young hearts and legs.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:51 am

Each to their own but I’d swap Brighton’s style of football for ours tomorrow without thinking. Then again I prefer football played on the deck and seeing my team pass to each other.

I like a mix, however, Brighton just pass to each other!

As far as I can see, only 1 team in those top 5 Leagues has won less games than us this season ; Genoa in Italy with 2.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:54 am

I like a mix, however, Brighton just pass to each other!

It'll never catch on

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:54 am

I like a mix, however, Brighton just pass to each other!

It’s the opposite side of the same coin. But I’d take Brighton’s football over ours. I can’t think of a single attack minded player in dyches time who has improved.

Cornet - started like a train, gone backwards
Mcneil - used to take players on - gone backwards
Weghorst - don’t play to his strengths
Lennon - had a brief flurry in recent times but has he suddenly forgot how to beat a man?
Boyd - turned into a workhorse
Hendrick - likewise


You could argue that Gray was one player who flourished under Dyche but even his performances went backwards eventually.

The only thing that would shock me about those stats is if they were much different for the season we finished 7th, for example.

As for style, I admire the way Athletico Madrid set out to p*ss off the opposition with their pragmatic way of playing.

Obviously with players technically on another level to what we have but it secured them the league title and they take no prisoners. There's always something enjoyable about being the underdog and perhaps our methods are not what they were.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:37 am

The only thing that would shock me about those stats is if they were much different for the season we finished 7th, for example.

As for style, I admire the way Athletico Madrid set out to p*ss off the opposition with their pragmatic way of playing.

Obviously with players technically on another level to what we have but it secured them the league title and they take no prisoners. There's always something enjoyable about being the underdog and perhaps our methods are not what they were.

I'd expect them to be significantly different. That team had Defour and Cork (at his peak) in the centre of midfield whose ball retention was light years better than Westwood and Brownhill, and generally was technically vastly superior to the current team. This team wouldn't try to score the 23 pass goal at Everton and if it did, it wouldn't succeed.

Gradually, in the intervening time our respect for the importance of keeping the ball and manipulating it has declined, and we've morphed into what was always the stereotype of Burnley - but which until relatively recently, wasn't a particularly fair stereotype. Now, it undoubtedly is unfortunately, and our decline in league position broadly tracks that evolution.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:50 am

I'd expect them to be significantly different. That team had Defour and Cork (at his peak) in the centre of midfield whose ball retention was light years better than Westwood and Brownhill, and generally was technically vastly superior to the current team. This team wouldn't try to score the 23 pass goal at Everton and if it did, it wouldn't succeed.

Gradually, in the intervening time our respect for the importance of keeping the ball and manipulating it has declined, and we've morphed into what was always the stereotype of Burnley - but which until relatively recently, wasn't a particularly fair stereotype. Now, it undoubtedly is unfortunately, and our decline in league position broadly tracks that evolution.

According to the PL stats, more passes, more goals.
Passing accuracy isn't massively different, nor shot accuracy.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:50 am

I'd expect them to be significantly different. That team had Defour and Cork (at his peak) in the centre of midfield whose ball retention was light years better than Westwood and Brownhill, and generally was technically vastly superior to the current team. This team wouldn't try to score the 23 pass goal at Everton and if it did, it wouldn't succeed.

Gradually, in the intervening time our respect for the importance of keeping the ball and manipulating it has declined, and we've morphed into what was always the stereotype of Burnley - but which until relatively recently, wasn't a particularly fair stereotype. Now, it undoubtedly is unfortunately, and our decline in league position broadly tracks that evolution.

We've had a decline that's for sure but largely the sentiment on the thread is not supported by the evidence.

We beat Liverpool quite comfortably with 20 per cent possession and the following midfield with Boyd, Marney Defour (Substituted for Berg Gudmundsson after 56'minutes) and Arfield.

All good quality players made very effective in a system that suited them. Quite simply they ran more and tackled harder than anyone else.

Every one is raving about Diego Simeone for being a modern smart coach when he sits in and stops City from playing but we get the type of stuff above about Sean Dyche.

The problem is, the squad is ageing and for whatever reason we haven't been able to find the players to replace the Westwood's, Corks and Barnes that have made the system work.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:07 pm

According to the PL stats, more passes, more goals.
Passing accuracy isn't massively different, nor shot accuracy.

A lot better possession in 17/18 which is I think a key stat that reflects the difference in both standard of football and league position from then to now

My issue isn't so much that the system doesn't work, it's more that when it's clearly not working we are absolutely devoid of ideas to change it or even attempt to try something else. We must be the easiest team in the Premier to prepare to play against. You know exactly what we are going to do and you know that we won't change it up.

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:11 pm

We've had a decline that's for sure but largely the sentiment on the thread is not supported by the evidence.

We beat Liverpool quite comfortably with 20 per cent possession and the following midfield with Boyd, Marney Defour (Substituted for Berg Gudmundsson after 56'minutes) and Arfield.

All good quality players made very effective in a system that suited them. Quite simply they ran more and tackled harder than anyone else.

Every one is raving about Diego Simeone for being a modern smart coach when he sits in and stops City from playing but we get the type of stuff above about Sean Dyche.

The problem is, the squad is ageing and for whatever reason we haven't been able to find the players to replace the Westwood's, Corks and Barnes that have made the system work.

That is indeed a significant part of the problem. But the fact we've become less good on the ball is demonstrable. That season we finished 7th, Jack Cork made an average of 42 passes a game, and made more than 80% of them successfully. Defour's were even better. Cork's own stats this season are that he makes 23 a game and only 74% successfully, whilst Westwood and Brownhill are in the mid-70s whilst making 31 and 40 a game respectively. So we're passing the ball through midfield less, and doing so less accurately.

Whilst it is true that we beat Liverpool with 20% of the ball, firstly that's to some extent an exception which proves the rule, and secondly even within that 20% it's what you do with it. With Defour in the team, we had an ability that all Dyche's best teams have had - someone in midfield who can hold the ball for a second under pressure, and find an easy pass to relieve pressure. First he had Dave Jones, then he had Barton, then he had Defour, then he had Cork. The best of his teams had 2 of them in tandem. Now we line up without a single player who can do that job (Cork's the best but he's failing). That's had a huge impact on our ability to manipulate the ball, absorb pressure and build constructive attacks.

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:35 am

It’s the opposite side of the same coin. But I’d take Brighton’s football over ours. I can’t think of a single attack minded player in dyches time who has improved.

Cornet - started like a train, gone backwards
Mcneil - used to take players on - gone backwards
Weghorst - don’t play to his strengths
Lennon - had a brief flurry in recent times but has he suddenly forgot how to beat a man?
Boyd - turned into a workhorse
Hendrick - likewise


You could argue that Gray was one player who flourished under Dyche but even his performances went backwards eventually.

Trippier? Chris Wood? Ashley Barnes pre injury?

As for Gray - all players performances go backwards eventually.... he moved to other clubs and hasn't gone forward has he?

What do people expect from a team of hasbeens, never hasbeens , and few makeweight champ players ? Personally I believe Dyche has worked miracles with the utter rubbish we’ve been able to bring in due to a grotesque lack of funds and inability to pay the preposterous wages good players expect .