Just seen the replays....for me, first soft.
But seeing the second, penalty, definitely.

I'm sure others have their own thoughts....

I agree, I thought the first one was more a tangle of legs, but Westwood was all over the back of him and deserved to give away the spot kick for the ridiculous decision he made to stop running and hesitate.

The 2nd one was nailed on, not even up for debate, there's a reason Lennon doesn't complain, swipes his standing leg away.

Both pens, first stupid by Westwood, second a bit unlucky for Lennon and where was our right back.

I had some very strong views of my own about an hour ago but I can’t remember what they were now UTC UTC UTC UTC

ElectroClaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:54 pm

Just seen the replays....for me, first soft.
But seeing the second, penalty, definitely.

I'm sure others have their own thoughts....

Haven't seem either yet, but going off the commentators 1st was soft, but you see them given.

2nd seems more definite, although Dean didn't give it at the time, and had to resort to VAR to change his decision.

Ultimately we won so who cares anyway.

Both soft but our not given for the foul on Maxwell was very annoying

Both pens
Westwood clueless as to where Gordon was for first and brought him down. Soft but a pen
Where was Roberts for the second ? But Lennon defo caught him so pen

Having seen the replay on the big screen I was deffo never a pen.

Having seen it now, bot pens no real argument.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:02 pm

Both soft but our not given for the foul on Maxwell was very annoying

As good a dive as Tom Daly

I still think he dived for the first one although Westwood was being clumsy behind him. Second one didn’t look a penalty in real time but was definitely one having seen the replays.

Both penalties.

First one was clumsy from Westwood and whilst it was a blatant dive for their second one Lennon did catch his foot and gave him the opportunity to throw himself over. I don't like it but it's a penalty these days.

What about the way both penalties were taken?

It's clear that TV coverage has fundamentally changed the way the rules of the game of interpretted.

They're no longer being interpretted correctly and the loser is honesty and integrity.

The first is a stonewall penalty where a player gets tripped - it doesn't matter if the contact is only slight. He is tripped.

The second was judged correctly in real time by Mike Dean who was in perfect position. It is contrived cheating whereby dangling out a leg creates 'contact' which is then somehow "proof" of a mysterious offence taking place. Football is a contact sport. He was lucky not to be carded for diving.

The fact that so many supporters have got all the entirely the wrong way round just shows how far beyond the pale and away from reality the footballing world has become.

Clearly I'm not on the list for Soma deliveries. I cannot fathom it. You're all crazy.

What was the verdict on Conet & handball shout?

Both blatant dives.

I hate modern football where the slightest "contact" allows them to fall to the floor when they wouldn't be fouls anywhere else.

The 2nd, under modern rules, is definitely a penalty. He touches him and he dives.
The 1st is not a penalty for the "tangle of legs" that Sky seemed to suggest. Gordon drags his leg to try to generate contact but Westwood has his hands on him and it was foolish.

I thought Cornet dived, too. Hinchcliffe went on about him diving. It was no bigger dive than the other 2 but with even less contact.

Both very soft at best, but what really grates is the knowledge that we wouldn’t have been Given either of them

They were pens ... have not seen replays but if it was at the other end we would be demanding a Pen ... Cornets not given was puzzling but hey ho justice done ... I couldn't care less just got home from 3 pints in the newly refurbished Maypole Inn cracking night

Both nailed on penalties from my view in the Jimmy Mac Upper.
But there was a blatant handball by Decoure I think, where his hand was next to his head.
It seems that everyone in the J Mac saw but somehow Mike Dean, the lino and VAR all contrived to miss it. ☹

There might have been a little contact for the first penalty but Gordon dived full on superman to win it.

Then Richarlison came to a stop in his run up. Is that allowed now?

LoveCurryPies wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:06 pm

What about the way both penalties were taken?

My thoughts as well. I thought you weren’t allowed to stutter in your run up?

an Everton player encroached approx 2m into the ‘D’ for the first penalty…shouldn’t it have been retaken?

RammyClaret61 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:42 am

My thoughts as well. I thought you weren’t allowed to stutter in your run up?

You're not allowed to stop but that's what he seems to do when he takes them.
In my opinion they need to put an end to the fancy run ups. Players can't just wait to see which way the goalkeeper dives.

First one was rubbish for me.....2nd a no doubter.
I didn't see a VAR of the first but looked really soft & their player made a meal of it.

Both soft, but you can understand why they were given. If the boot was on the other foot I would have been fuming not to get them.

I have no problem with either penalty being given as there was contact in both cases. However my disappointment is in the knowledge that neither would have been given against the home team at Goodison, Anfield, Old Trafford, The Etihad, Stamford Bridge, The Emirates etc. VAR was supposed to level up the playing field for the smaller clubs but it has been used as a stick to beat us with.

It was the refs association, VAR and the Premier league's apology for the mistake made in refusing Everton a penalty against City a few weeks ago.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:05 am

You're not allowed to stop but that's what he seems to do when he takes them.
In my opinion they need to put an end to the fancy run ups. Players can't just wait to see which way the goalkeeper dives.

Agree 100%

CaptJohn wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:19 am

I have no problem with either penalty being given as there was contact in both cases. However my disappointment is in the knowledge that neither would have been given against the home team at Goodison, Anfield, Old Trafford, The Etihad, Stamford Bridge, The Emirates etc. VAR was supposed to level up the playing field for the smaller clubs but it has been used as a stick to beat us with.

Yep - totally agree. I said straight away on both times that they’d be given.

If we’d lost- deffo not pens, a conspiracy and a travesty!
Seeing as we won - both nailed-on pens

The first the clearest penalty u will see.
Everton played goes by Westwood and he holds him back with his arm. Player goes down. Def penalty.
If ur going to give an opinion give an honest on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0eaSXsq4c

Both classic cases of the player 'winning' the penalty. The attitude is that if you are hampered in the penalty area you are 'entitled' to go down rather then waiting for the ref to make a decision.

Neither had to go down - they both throw themselves to the ground - but in both cases you can see why a penalty was given as they were both fouled. Clearly in the second case, but possibly also in the first, if the player hadn't gone down the ref would probably not have given a penalty.

The first was definitely a penalty, really clumsy from Westwood, got himself in a real tangle.
The second I thought wasn't, there was contact but it in no way impeded their player who clearly felt minimal contact and took a dive.
They were still both soft though, and I can't recall us getting any from similar circumstances. Thankfully it didn't cost us.

First one should have been retaken, as there was encroachment by an Everton player .

Hipper wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:33 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0eaSXsq4c

Both classic cases of the player 'winning' the penalty. The attitude is that if you are hampered in the penalty area you are 'entitled' to go down rather then waiting for the ref to make a decision.

Neither had to go down - they both throw themselves to the ground - but in both cases you can see why a penalty was given as they were both fouled. Clearly in the second case, but possibly also in the first, if the player hadn't gone down the ref would probably not have given a penalty.

If you throw yourself to the ground, as both did, you have not been fouled.

First very clumsy by Westwood, but definitely a pen.
Second is probably a pen, but I feel the player looks for
the contact as they so often do in those exact same situations.

The second one is exactly what has been made clear VAR is not supposed to give. There is contact and then the player throws himself upwards and over.

For me both penalties. Both soft but you can see why they have been given. What I don't understand is why is the second deemed an "obvious mistake"? It's not clear cut and required several views and slowed down views to check it. That's not obvious, that's taking it away from a human's ability.

Personally thought they were both soft. The way the Everton player goes limp and throws himself forwards for the first one looks a dive under minimal contact and the second penalty you can actually see the Everton players leg stand back on the floor after the challenge before he whips it away from under himself.
Very good acting from Everton.

The first was a bit messy from Westwood but the player wasnt impeded as he was able to throw his arms up and use his feet to propel himself forwards into the air and turn to look at the ref

No doubt about the second

My first reaction for both incidents when I saw them live was they were penalties.

First one was clear cut.
Second one was very, very soft. If you watch a replay of the contact pay attention to the Everton players right leg. He just folds it under himself to dive. Saying that, there was contact and in todays game that is a penalty. It shouldn't be but it is.

Cornet dived and was lucky not to get booked.

claretabroad wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:54 am

Saying that, there was contact and in todays game that is a penalty.

Unless it’s a double fisted punch to the face obviously.

Both were definite pens after seeing the replays a couple of times. The first has leg contact after the shoulder hold and the second sees Lennon hook his trailing foot. Impossible to stay on your feet after either when you are moving at speed. The only doubt on the first one was whether the ball was clearly heading out of play.

First one happened right in front of us and was a blatant dive.

Second one looked suspect in real time and was confirmed by the replay - there is contact but the player put his foot back on the floor, then kicks it up in the air to go down. It's even more obvious in slow motion so it's a joke it was given.

The game is indeed, as they say, gone. Cornet's also was not a penalty, but it was no different to the Gordon one.

bfcmik wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:31 am

Both were definite pens after seeing the replays a couple of times. The first has leg contact after the shoulder hold and the second sees Lennon hook his trailing foot. Impossible to stay on your feet after either when you are moving at speed. The only doubt on the first one was whether the ball was clearly heading out of play.

The final sentence just adds further to weight to the question about what Westwood thought he was doing. It was clumsy and daft from him - a moment of blind panic.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:39 am

First one happened right in front of us and was a blatant dive.

Second one looked suspect in real time and was confirmed by the replay - there is contact but the player put his foot back on the floor, then kicks it up in the air to go down. It's even more obvious in slow motion so it's a joke it was given.

The game is indeed, as they say, gone. Cornet's also was not a penalty, but it was no different to the Gordon one.

I agree. never in a month of Sundays would Burnley have got either of those penalties.

Prem is just a corrupt money making machine, trying to protect one of the initial breakaway group of clubs, demanding a Prem League separate to the Football League.

Justice!

I've just been reminded about how a Burnley crowd love perceived injustice to get them going.

First penalty Gordon flicks his left leg out to catch Westwood and dives forward. Westwood just holding his shirt to stop him falling over too hard!

Second definitely has his foot taken by Lenon. No complaints about that one.

First is a blatant dive, yes there's a tangle of legs but that comes after he plants his right foot to initiate the dive. What annoys me with VAR is that the threshold is so inconsistent that it will interfere on the second but not the first. One penalty for those two incidents would be about right, instead we end up with two because of VAR.

Not having it that people say both were nailed on pens.

Pen 1: The caveat here is that it was Anthony Gordon who is one of the biggest Vardy type diving cheats you will ever see. Stupid and clumsy from Westwood, but Gordon knew what he was doing. Clever play? Maybe. Would we have got it at Old Trafford or Anfield? Doubtful

Pen: 2: Soft, a bi-product of the modern age and VAR where any slight contact equals a foul

Just seen the highlights.

Putting aside the legitimacy of the penalties, Richarlison actually stops - at least to my eyes he does - during the half hour he spent taking the first one.

That is not allowed, is it?