Jonathan Liew on Dyche
https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... SApp_Other

Very good journalist and a well written 'EULOGY'?

mikeS wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:22 am

Jonathan Liew on Dyche
https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... SApp_Other

cheers for posting that ... a good truthful read

Excellent read…thanks for posting.

Fair enough I think. He “gets” that we played a certain way and that we weren’t the dirty side everyone who didn’t watch us thought we were.

Greater than the sum of our parts is how I would describe us at our peak.

An excellent summary, I'm looking forward to late May's issue when we are praised for surviving again against the odds UTC

An article saying more or less nothing at all, save for a request to laud Burnley’s time under Dyche as an honest expression of a town punching above its weight.

Really, any national article on Dyche now should be analysing the last two seasons and what has gone wrong since the pandemic hit, because that is when the decline started. There is a pre pandemic Dyche and a post pandemic Dyche, Liew doesn’t really acknowledge that.

Nice article. Everyone needs to read and digest this bit in particular which hits the nail on the head.

The problem was not that Burnley failed to evolve or adapt. The problem is that Burnley were Burnley: a cash-poor small-town club in a sea of nation-states and billionaire mercenaries, desperately trying to keep its head above water.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:44 am

An article saying more or less nothing at all, save for a request to laud Burnley’s time under Dyche as an honest expression of a town punching above its weight.

Really, any national article on Dyche now should be analysing the last two seasons and what has gone wrong since the pandemic hit, because that is when the decline started. There is a pre pandemic Dyche and a post pandemic Dyche, Liew doesn’t really acknowledge that.

Hang on a minute the article makes a very valid point about many, many who have critisized the style of play and have rarely seen us play. I read stupid critical comments and think hang on have you ever watched Burnley? This is over the whole Dyche tenure mind. Two red cards five years. The article does mention how lately the lustre has gone.

“ Do not mourn the fact that it died. Cherish the fact it lived.” Spot on. Great article. Thanks for posting.

Good read. Thanks for posting this.

100% Spot on and well written

Fantastic article written by someone who I remember also wrote an appreciation of us when we were at “Peak Dyche” in the European qualification season .
For me this serves as the ultimate eulogy for the era which has now ended.

Yes a good, thoughtful article.
Dyche and Burnley fascinated the football world and frequently confounded their ignorant critics but the wheels came off this year when only 4 wins sealed our fate.

It’s a very good article but I think it only skims the surface of what Dyche achieved.

A superb article on a par with the one praising the club and its fans at Derby all those years ago.
Love the dig about the stay away experts....

What an antidote to a lot of the gossip and innuendo on here.

Well written and spot on.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:44 am

An article saying more or less nothing at all

I agree to a certain extent. It's a fairly benign summary, telling us what we already know, even if others don't. We punched above our weight, we weren't a dirty team, we didn't play ugly-football for the sake of it, rather we played practical football which at times could look ugly, and that eventually it was going to end.

But this is the key message

The problem is that Burnley were Burnley: a cash-poor small-town club in a sea of nation-states and billionaire mercenaries, desperately trying to keep its head above water

And this is probably always going to be a problem, unless the game itself changes. Why shouldn't towns the size of Burnley be able to compete at the very top? Why should mega-money backing trump sustainable well-run clubs?

The elite want to draw all the money away from the rest to look after themselves. And if they want to breakaway, and not face the jeopardy of relegation, and with it the point of football, which is experiencing the high highs (which only exist because of the potential lows), then so be it. Good riddance I say. But let's leave ourselves with a system where the financial rewards between top and bottom aren't quite so stretched. Let the reward for success be the joy of success itself, rather than the money that comes with it. Invite the elite to be part of the revolution, by all means. But don't worry if they refuse. Call their bluff. And wave them off with a smile if they still put their greed ahead of the good of the game

Great article. The links with Bolton and Stoke are frightening.

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:09 am

Great article. The links with Bolton and Stoke are frightening.

Agree but I have a recurring nightmare that he could end up somewhere even closer to home !!!!

This article has it about spot on. Sean Dyche cut his cloth according to his means. That some of the clubs - like Derby, and others have not followed this model has led to their demise. We have had success by staying in the Premier League , despite having a relatively low budget although it is however not small by any means. Sean Dyche knew how to send out a team to beat fancied opposition, although in this season he seemed to fall short. Perhaps if some of those many drawn games had been wins I would not be writing this comment .

Liew has been more than scathing about us in the past, but that is a cracking article that absolutely nails it

Superb

This a cracking article and Jonathan Liew is a fantastic writer. He can talk shite at times, but it's always beautifully written shite.

Here’s an even better Guardian summary of Dyche’s time at Burnley

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng ... SApp_Other

claret2018 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:16 pm

Here’s an even better Guardian summary of Dyche’s time at Burnley

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng ... SApp_Other

That is very funny! Some excellent drawings as well.

Well written write up, hope we make the players read it though. “See that they’ve already written our obituary, lets prove them all wrong… again!”

Sad to see some of the comments in the Guardian's replies section serve to fully enforce one's notion of a typical London-centric Corbynista, with their views of Burnley and the north. To quote Jeff Stelling, " the north is somewhere you fly over en-route to the Edinburgh festival " ....

Excellent article, win win for Sean if we stay up it his team do down and all the pundits will say he would have kept us up.

Clarets4me wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:09 pm

Sad to see some of the comments in the Guardian's replies section serve to fully enforce one's notion of a typical London-centric Corbynista, with their views of Burnley and the north. To quote Jeff Stelling, " the north is somewhere you fly over en-route to the Edinburgh festival " ....

Wow , politics banned on here now.

joey13 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:18 pm

Wow , politics banned on here now.

Hardly politics, here's three chosen at random ..

OVerity " Kick. S**t. Eat pies. And that's the Burnley way "

WellYouSayThat - " I don't buy this stuck up 'metropolitan' nonsense. Burnley are a reckless anti football team. A low budget Atletico Madrid. Rubbish to watch and a danger to other teams. If you can't play football you've no business being in the Premier League. Good riddance. "

Kneejerkreactionary - " Dyche gave the people of Burnley a team they could be proud of ... Only the people in Burnley could be proud of that team "

Clarets4me wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:35 pm

Hardly politics, here's three chosen at random ..

OVerity " Kick. S**t. Eat pies. And that's the Burnley way "

WellYouSayThat - " I don't buy this stuck up 'metropolitan' nonsense. Burnley are a reckless anti football team. A low budget Atletico Madrid. Rubbish to watch and a danger to other teams. If you can't play football you've no business being in the Premier League. Good riddance. "

Kneejerkreactionary - " Dyche gave the people of Burnley a team they could be proud of ... Only the people in Burnley could be proud of that team "

The first one is an Athletico Mince reference.

The other two are pretty stuck up but I would say in the minority. I live in London and am surrounded by a lot of metropolitan guardian reader types- who generally admire Burnley whatever their political views are.

There was (and still us, but less by the day as ALK change things) a very ripe brand for Burnley as the club that IS anti-football, if you define football as the modern, money-driven, diving and corruption riddled, sportsmanship devoid enterprise built around global TV viewing rather than community and heritage. Anti-football but pro-"footie" - the club for working class or blue collar, for honest pros, for people who prefer to work for success than buy it, for people who value doing things fairly and the right way and having gritty integrity over smooth superficiality. I think Dyche even grasped and played up to this- see him wandering around in the snow in just his shirt Vs Spurs.
We can criticise our marketing team for not doing enough to capitalise on this brand or not managing to do it without detaching from unsavoury hangers on (eg. The plane incident). But that brand was absolutely there, and one we could (and should) have been proud of rather than seeking the approval of the City/Liverpool hangers on. We seem to be abandoning this image because it's not what our owners want, but the replacement is just a lower budget version of what already exists, without our previous unique selling points.
For all the talk of becoming the Premier League's favourite underdog, I think we had a decent claim to it already. Just not in the same market as Leicester or Wolves for example.

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:58 pm

The first one is an Athletico Mince reference.

The other two are pretty stuck up but I would say in the minority. I live in London and am surrounded by a lot of metropolitan guardian reader types- who generally admire Burnley whatever their political views are.

There was (and still us, but less by the day as ALK change things) a very ripe brand for Burnley as the club that IS anti-football, if you define football as the modern, money-driven, diving and corruption riddled, sportsmanship devoid enterprise built around global TV viewing rather than community and heritage. Anti-football but pro-"footie" - the club for working class or blue collar, for honest pros, for people who prefer to work for success than buy it, for people who value doing things fairly and the right way and having gritty integrity over smooth superficiality. I think Dyche even grasped and played up to this- see him wandering around in the snow in just his shirt Vs Spurs.
We can criticise our marketing team for not doing enough to capitalise on this brand or not managing to do it without detaching from unsavoury hangers on (eg. The plane incident). But that brand was absolutely there, and one we could (and should) have been proud of rather than seeking the approval of the City/Liverpool hangers on. We seem to be abandoning this image because it's not what our owners want, but the replacement is just a lower budget version of what already exists, without our previous unique selling points.
For all the talk of becoming the Premier League's favourite underdog, I think we had a decent claim to it already. Just not in the same market as Leicester or Wolves for example.

This is my post from 27th November 2020, rather " tongue in cheek ", but along the same lines, I fancy ....

Clarets4me wrote: ↑November 27th, 2020, 7:08 pm
About 18 months ago, I posted, rather " tongue in cheek " a mock press release from our new 'merican owners, which I can't find ...

" A small rust-belt Town in Lancastershire, England that lost it's industry and jobs but still had it's Soccer team and it's pride ... Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, they've felt your pain, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee and Alabama this is where your Cotton used to go and to any American who ever " pulled for the little guy " anywhere, this is your team !! Now led by " Stone Cold " Sean Dyche, Burnley roster a number of Irish Internationals in their weekly fight against the big guys, think a AA minor-league Ball Club from Billings, Montana taking on the Yankees or the Red Sox every week !!! They've been to the brink and back, " THE BURNLEY CLARETS, " A team for the average Joe !! "

Anyone who reads the comments section under newspaper articles and takes them seriously needs sectioning

It is the worst of social media, and that is saying something

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:51 pm

Anyone who reads the comments section under newspaper articles and takes them seriously needs sectioning

It is the worst of social media, and that is saying something

Criticising other peoples lazy stereotyping by lazily stereotyping said people isn't quite the hot take as it might have first seemed

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:55 pm

Criticising other peoples lazy stereotyping by lazily stereotyping said people isn't quite the hot take as it might have first seemed

Not really

The comments section is an open sewer, and the more controversial a topic gets, the more of a sewer it becomes

Not worth reading, and certainly not worth getting het up about

So people in London think we are s***e?

So whats new there then!

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:57 pm

Not really

The comments section is an open sewer, and the more controversial a topic gets, the more of a sewer it becomes

Not worth reading, and certainly not worth getting het up about

So people in London think we are s***e?

So whats new there then!

Well yes and if you really wanted to look at comments sections then the "Gaurdianista" or "Metropolitan Elites" are like Snow White compared to what you read in some of the hate rags like the Mail, Express etc.

Ignoring all that the comment in question still completely failed on its own terms by the simple fact it was completely hypocritical and seeming lacking in any self awareness or consistency

Peak Burnley ? I think not

Pearcey wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:09 am

Great article. The links with Bolton and Stoke are frightening.

Agreed.

They're also preposterous - why aren't a host of major clubs seeking out his services?

I'm genuinely flummoxed by it all.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:57 pm

Not really
The comments section is an open sewer, and the more controversial a topic gets, the more of a sewer it becomes

Radio phone-ins are just as bad. I don't really care what the man in the street thinks, because I've met him, and he's a prick.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:09 pm

Agreed.

They're also preposterous - why aren't a host of major clubs seeking out his services?

I'm genuinely flummoxed by it all.

The clubs above and around us either have recently changed manager (Everton, Leeds, Watford, Villa, Newcastle), are performing well/above expectations (West Ham, Brighton, Brentford, arguably Southampton, arguably Wolves) or a mix of both (Palace).
If Leicester or Southampton slump enough to abandon their relatively stable managerial positions, or any of the others are deemed to underperform next to the owners' expectations I'm sure Dyche will be in line but right now there's no club he would realistically be approached by except Watford, or if they get relegated Everton, because nobody else is likely to ditch managers before I'd guess October-November.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:03 pm

Well yes and if you really wanted to look at comments sections then the "Gaurdianista" or "Metropolitan Elites" are like Snow White compared to what you read in some of the hate rags like the Mail, Express etc.

Ignoring all that the comment in question still completely failed on its own terms by the simple fact it was completely hypocritical and seeming lacking in any self awareness or consistency

My original post about comments sections under newspapers?

if you say so mate

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:14 pm

My original post about comments sections under newspapers?

if you say so mate

You've completely lost me, are we disagreeing on something here?

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:03 pm

Well yes and if you really wanted to look at comments sections then the "Gaurdianista" or "Metropolitan Elites" are like Snow White compared to what you read in some of the hate rags like the Mail, Express etc.

Ignoring all that the comment in question still completely failed on its own terms by the simple fact it was completely hypocritical and seeming lacking in any self awareness or consistency

You're tilting at windmills. Nobody is arguing that the Mail/Express or their comments sections are anything but dreck.
Them being garbage doesn't preclude the Guardian comments from being a different sort of garbage aimed at different targets, nobody was even trying to compare the two.

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:17 pm

You're tilting at windmills. Nobody is arguing that the Mail/Express or their comments sections are anything but dreck.
Them being garbage doesn't preclude the Guardian comments from being a different sort of garbage aimed at different targets, nobody was even trying to compare the two.

That wasn't really my main point and was just a side conversation. If you look at my initial comment you'll see I was really pointing out that to criticise people for their lazy stereotyping of Burnley or the north whilst lazily stereotyping said people is a bit stupid.

The Guardian comment section is completely predictable, indeed they delete anything which doesn’t fit their biases. The Mails are much more of a mixture and much less censored.Basically people highlighting their prejudices.

Tall Paul wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:47 am

Nice article. Everyone needs to read and digest this bit in particular which hits the nail on the head.

I do wonder how the journalist thought we should evolve?

This is the same writer who in 2017 wrote an article for The Independant called ''Burnley, Brexit and Britishness: The Premier League's most interesting club and how it represents society's split'' where he basically called Dyche a racist bully. I wonder what made him change his mind.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:29 pm

I do wonder how the journalist thought we should evolve?

I already suggested we embrace our reputation as a backs-against-the-wall "spoiler" for the rich clubs' fun. I think leaning into this rather than trying to play catch-up on a fraction of the budget could potentially have worked. To a certain type of fan - largely glory hunters or casual viewers only out for goals- we would be a villain, to more traditional supporters we would be the hero.
Conor McGregor, Floyd Mayweather, Deontay Wilder, Tyson Fury, Max Verstappen, Lewis Hamilton, all built successful brands where they were happy to be a villain to some, hero to others, as long as they still got people interested. There's no reason we couldn't have built a similar brand, taking cues from Atletico Madrid and incorporating them into our own identity, while cutting out the more politically polarising/distasteful stuff. Associate ourselves with an ethos rather than social stereotypes.

CardyTheClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:35 pm

This is the same writer who in 2017 wrote an article for The Independant called ''Burnley, Brexit and Britishness: The Premier League's most interesting club and how it represents society's split'' where he basically called Dyche a racist bully. I wonder what made him change his mind.

Now that that era is over they need a new way to generate a reaction. During the Dyche Era we were a small minded small club, now we're an Americanised sellout.
For all types of fan there's designated good and bad guys in football just as in boxing, MMA, all sports. We're unlikely to ever win over the people who see us as a bad guy club by changing our image.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:16 pm

You've completely lost me, are we disagreeing on something here?

Not that I'm aware of!

I thought your original comment was aimed at me, if it wasn't, then no bother at all