Not that it matters but can anyone throw any light on these?

1/. At the end of the first half, why was there only 3 mins added time? Their player being stretchered off took 5 mins. Then there was the VAR review for the penalty. He hadn't spotted it (which was as clear as day). Then the players appealed, then he listened, then he went to the monitor.

2/. Why was Taylor playing like he was frightened? There was genuine fear in his eyes.

3/. When was the last time, in a crucial last day of the season game, the opposition team were reduced to 9 men?

There was 5 minutes added time in the first half wasn't there?

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 9:38 am

There was 5 minutes added time in the first half wasn't there?

No idea, it seemed like 3, everyone around me complained of 3. The tannoy in jml is unintelligible.

The only way of hearing glen little at half time was to go in the bogs.

2 Bee Holed wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 9:34 am

Not that it matters but can anyone throw any light on these?

1/. At the end of the first half, why was there only 3 mins added time? Their player being stretchered off took 5 mins. Then there was the VAR review for the penalty. He hadn't spotted it (which was as clear as day). Then the players appealed, then he listened, then he went to the monitor.

2/. Why was Taylor playing like he was frightened? There was genuine fear in his eyes.

3/. When was the last time, in a crucial last day of the season game, the opposition team were reduced to 9 men?

1/ Ref needed a wee.

2/ He's human, and was desperate to stay in the division. We all get nervous in our lives when something huge is happening whether it be a job interview, first tee shot on a Saturday in front of people...whatever.

3/ Two genuine bookings for taking shirt of after scoring, then a foul.. Pretty sure the last reduction was that they'd used all their subs and they then had an injury..

No conspiracy for me, nobody stopped us from winning on Sunday other than Newcastle, and ourselves..

It was five minutes stoppage time, though I was sure the announcer said three. But again, I sit in the JML, so he could’ve said anything.

2 Bee Holed wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 9:34 am

Not that it matters but can anyone throw any light on these?

1/. At the end of the first half, why was there only 3 mins added time? Their player being stretchered off took 5 mins. Then there was the VAR review for the penalty. He hadn't spotted it (which was as clear as day). Then the players appealed, then he listened, then he went to the monitor.

The board indicated 5 minutes at the end ofthe first half. Then cornet was injured, and the trainer had to come on to treat him, and while I timed that to last over 1.5 minutes, the ref estimated it at 9 seconds and blew at 5 minutes 9 seconds.

5 mins added first half - at least that what was displayed on the big screen thing. I don't buy into the conspiracy theory but I do think Brentford's 9 men is yet another example of our rotten luck this season.

5 mins added first half - at least that what was displayed on the big screen thing. I don't buy into the conspiracy theory but I do think Brentford's 9 men is yet another example of our rotten luck this season.

RE, extra time, thought the 4 minutes at the end was a tad short due to the subs and there was two injuries

Yes, the Brentford player booked for taking his shirt off after scoring compared to Richarlison picking up and throwing that flair and got nothing.

Timekeeping is atrocious from the officials IMO.

I'm often laughed at for occasionally having my stopwatch running throughout the game to measure the stoppages and the facts would amaze some people. Most games there are at least 2-3 minutes of stoppages in each half (that's normal games without serious injuries) and yet there's usually only 1 minute at most at the end of the first half. Sunday's game was probably more accurate than most in that respect, but the board did say 3 minutes and it was announced as 3 minutes (my recollection of course), but the ref played closer to what was taken at just over 5 minutes.

The issue against Villa wasn't the official timekeeping per se though, it was the repeated timewasting from Martinez. I recall about 10 instances where he held the ball for longer than 15 seconds, and the longest hold was 35 seconds before releasing it. He should have been booked after the first warning, but wasn't, and wasn't booked after the second, third or fourth warnings either. Apparently it's gamesmanship when it happens against us - but I know that when Pope (and previously Heaton) did it for us, they often got booked.

A part of me is looking forward to no VAR and officials who know we're a "big" club in our league next season, perhaps the swing of decisions will be in our favour for a change.

dsr wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 9:59 am

The board indicated 5 minutes at the end ofthe first half. Then cornet was injured, and the trainer had to come on to treat him, and while I timed that to last over 1.5 minutes, the ref estimated it at 9 seconds and blew at 5 minutes 9 seconds.

Thanks DSR. Seeing as you were timing things.
How long was the stretchered off injury? How long was the VAR penalty decision?
Did you happen to get these?

I suppose it would be a good study for someone who had access to all the footage from all games - I'd love to do it but I don't have the footage, nor the time. I do suspect someone somewhere already has the data though, and I would also hazard a guess at that data being strictly protected and private as it would (I suspect) prove favour for bigger clubs and also protect the officials.

Could've been 20 minutes stoppage time at the end of the first half, we still wouldn't have created a chance let alone scored a goal.

One of the most disappointing performances I've ever seen from Burnley, I'd rather we went down throwing the kitchen sink at it, win or bust. Instead we saw a team who didn't manage a shot until 35 minutes into the game and it was a speculative long ranger from the guy with the most shots without a goal in the PL.

They could have played 40 minutes extra time that first half and we still wouldn't have had a shot sadly

Andreshotboots wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 9:55 am

3/ Two genuine bookings for taking shirt of after scoring, then a foul.. Pretty sure the last reduction was that they'd used all their subs and they then had an injury.

You are spot on but the injury came first after the subs had been used so they were already down to 10 when Canos was sent off.

2 Bee Holed wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:10 am

Thanks DSR. Seeing as you were timing things.
How long was the stretchered off injury? How long was the VAR penalty decision?
Did you happen to get these?

No, I didn't time those. I only timed Cornet because he went down just on the start of injury time and I wanted to estimate how much extra injury time above the 5 there would be. (As it happened, 9 seconds. The ref obviously forgot about Cornet's injury.)

The second half injury time of 4 minutes was definitely short. One problem is that a player can fall down injured, and the ref has to trot 50 yards to ask him if he needs the rainer; he says no, he gets to his feet in stages, and takes 30 seconds to do so. And most refs (it seems) don't add anything on for that because they haven't brought the trainer on. It would be easy enough, when time wasting is involved and a player is "injured", to stop the watch as soon as the ball goes dead and not restart it until the ball is back in play - that way, even the thickest of footballers would learn that feigning injury is costing his team time, not saving it. But the PL and the FA are not bothered about time wasting just like they aren't bothered about anything else that might involve them doing something.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:27 am

You are spot on but the injury came first after the subs had been used so they were already down to 10 when Canos was sent off.

Of course, our fault didn't we vote against Klopp's & Pep's extra subs

The issue I have second half is four minutes after Pawson spend ages more than once having a conference with the players, probably one minute, Trippier went down with cramp, that was one minute, others were down too and then the goals and substitutions.

But that is normal to be shafted in that situation. I think they have a special board for 90 minutes with ‘4’ written on it permanently.

The big problem was that surprisingly and disappointingly Newcastle were well up for it and Brentford were on the beach. The opposite way around and we’d have easily survived. But again, that is normal random bad luck that we see all the time.

I believe we were stitched up but not by any of those things.

The guy who got sent off did remind me of a guy who might have laid a bet on himself to get sent off (or his wife had!) He didn't just take his shirt off, he danced around for ages in his bra which they all wear these days to make sure the ref was in no doubt and then he almost immediately blatantly clattered into someone running by him on the touchline. He was absolutely begging to get his marching orders!

Tarky received treatment too

Beagle wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 9:58 am

It was five minutes stoppage time, though I was sure the announcer said three. But again, I sit in the JML, so he could’ve said anything.

I heard 3. Those to the right of me heard 3. Those to the left of me heard 5!

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:36 am

The guy who got sent off did remind me of a guy who might have laid a bet on himself to get sent off (or his wife had!) He didn't just take his shirt off, he danced around for ages in his bra which they all wear these days to make sure the ref was in no doubt and then he almost immediately blatantly clattered into someone running by him on the touchline. He was absolutely begging to get his marching orders!

that was my exact thought on the incidents too - all looked far too suspect for me

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:36 am

The guy who got sent off did remind me of a guy who might have laid a bet on himself to get sent off (or his wife had!) He didn't just take his shirt off, he danced around for ages in his bra which they all wear these days to make sure the ref was in no doubt and then he almost immediately blatantly clattered into someone running by him on the touchline. He was absolutely begging to get his marching orders!

Unlikely. He would know that if he got caught, he wouldn't be playing next season - how big a bet does it need to be to justify the loss of a year's PL wages? It's not that it can't happen, just that it would be incredibly stupid (even by professional football standards)!

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:19 am

They could have played 40 minutes extra time that first half and we still wouldn't have had a shot sadly

I'm sure that I saw Dwight put one just over the bar and then had one saved?

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:45 am

I'm sure that I saw Dwight put one just over the bar and then had one saved?

I'm sure I did too, but I'm also sure that we were objectively terrible in that first half sadly (which is the point I'm making)

dsr wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:44 am

Unlikely. He would know that if he got caught, he wouldn't be playing next season - how big a bet does it need to be to justify the loss of a year's PL wages? It's not that it can't happen, just that it would be incredibly stupid (even by professional football standards)!

Yes, I know. I was actually being somewhat tongue in cheek, but tbh when I left the Turf on Sunday I was pretty philosophical as we'd played poorly and conceded 2 awful goals and contrived to miss some great chances to salvage the draw. I was happy to accept that Leeds had won away from home at really tough ground to get anything at and that I really hadn't expected that. However when I watched MOTD I became much more angry as I felt Brentford really had literally gifted the game to Leeds and that was something Newcastle, quite rightly, clearly weren't ever going to do with us. I'm not suggesting conspiracy or anything weird like that, just that it's so, so annoying that out of 2 teams with nothing really to play for, Newcastle turned up and Brentford couldn't be arsed and the manner of the utterly, utterly amateurish 2 yellows = a red in the space of 2 minutes, on top of the goalkeeping blunder for the first goal really do stick with me unfortunately.

A solution that is used in some other professional sports is to stop the clock. As soon as the staff come on the clock stops until they leave the field. This eliminates guesswork. Same could apply to substitution and then no silliness when leaving the field. Thus 45 mins play per half.

for anyone interested, I've just time how long between the ref stopping play for the Joelinton injury to restarting play and it was 4 minutes 40 seconds

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 11:40 am

for anyone interested, I've just time how long between the ref stopping play for the Joelinton injury to restarting play and it was 4 minutes 40 seconds

so max 20 seconds for VAR check?

On the timekeeping thing, a Leeds supporting mate of mine reckons that they delayed the second half kick off of the Leeds game so that our respective games would restart at the same time. But then there was a further delay in restarting the Leeds game so they actually ended up a couple of minutes behind. I thought the Joelinton injury, and then Tarks receiving lengthy treatment would have resulted in our game finishing second but apparently not.

Our game was still going on when Leeds made it 2:1

Sorry but we are looking desperate. We lost because we played sh1te.

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 11:40 am

for anyone interested, I've just time how long between the ref stopping play for the Joelinton injury to restarting play and it was 4 minutes 40 seconds

This is why I have started the thread. As a family we estimated there would be 9 minutes.
We were gobsmacked when we heard 3.

Even 5 is scandalous.

I really do hope there was not shortening of playing time, to try and get the two matches to finish at the same time.

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 12:41 pm

Sorry but we are looking desperate. We lost because we played sh1te.

We are having a discussion about time keeping.
I don't think anyone is for one minute using a few minutes as the reason we were relegated.

Do you mind if we discuss time keeping?

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:43 am

I heard 3. Those to the right of me heard 3. Those to the left of me heard 5!

So what colour was the dress?

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 12:26 pm

On the timekeeping thing, a Leeds supporting mate of mine reckons that they delayed the second half kick off of the Leeds game so that our respective games would restart at the same time. But then there was a further delay in restarting the Leeds game so they actually ended up a couple of minutes behind. I thought the Joelinton injury, and then Tarks receiving lengthy treatment would have resulted in our game finishing second but apparently not.

They did indeed delay the start of the second half in the Leeds game to restart the same as ours which I didn't realise was a thing now.

No conspiracy from me, the Brentford player was just a complete dick given Ajer had gone off before the goal and they were playing with 10 men having already used their Subs.

The first half injury time I thought was short but hey, would we have done anything different?

Collins did what he did and only he can explain why, it was totally ridiculous.

We never had the desire from the opening minute to take the game to them, maybe a Dyche legacy or simply they were overwhelmed by the occasion. It was in our hands and we couldn't rise to the occasion

The whole turn of events at Brentford was more than a bit suspicious.

1. Brentford keeper just gifts the ball to the Leeds player and then hacks him down (could have been a red for this)
2. Brentford use all their subs after 70 mins?
3. Canos (who had come off the bench btw) goes crazy in a 2 minute spell and gets himself sent off, even knowing they only had 10 men in the first place.

Also from our point of view I'd make it the first time we have choked when it really mattered in a league game since possibly the play offs vs Torquay

Very disappointing

Taylor just jogging back for their 2nd goal was totally inexcusable, as was Collins' handball.

As a further point, if Weghorst had converted that chance, I'm convinced we'd have gone on and won it

That scabby Leeds equaliser at the Turf has ended up relegating us as well, but all ifs buts and maybes at this stage

Ric_C wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 1:59 pm

btw)
Also from our point of view I'd make it the first time we have choked when it really mattered in a league game since possibly the play offs vs Torquay.

League game yes, but
FA cup quarter final v Watford? In fact loads of cup matches.

claretblue wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 12:15 pm

so max 20 seconds for VAR check?

just timed that too 1 minute 42 seconds between the appeal and the award of the penalty

...and because I'm feeling like a sad tw@t... 40 seconds for Trippier on the floor holding his foot (to hide the fact he handled the ball)

So in total for the 3 "main" stoppages so far I've looked at theres:
Joelinton 4 minutes 40 seconds
VAR Check for Penalty 1 minute 42 Seconds
Trippier injury 40 seconds

Total of 7 minutes and 2 seconds before you have to allow for the 30 seconds is it (for a goal) for the penalty and reset. I may be wrong, but there were other stoppages too in the first half - I'm only up to 25 minutes in on Clarets+ player for the full match.

5 minutes is certainly not enough, and the 3 minutes they announced was clearly some in joke for the officials right...!

And before anyone states that I'm clutching at straws its nothing of the sort as there are so many other reasons why we were relegated (mostly our own undoing), all I am doing is raising a long held belief of mine that the officials dont get the timekeeping anywhere near accurate enough for my liking.

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:36 am

The guy who got sent off did remind me of a guy who might have laid a bet on himself to get sent off (or his wife had!) He didn't just take his shirt off, he danced around for ages in his bra which they all wear these days to make sure the ref was in no doubt and then he almost immediately blatantly clattered into someone running by him on the touchline. He was absolutely begging to get his marching orders!

Careful.I mooted the idea in its own thread the other day and got attacked for it. You don't want a libel case against you do you?

Glad somebody else sees the possibility.

To be fair Canos has a rep for being a bit dim and reckless. BUT it does seem a bit iffy. It's fine though as we won't have half as much bullshit next season. The Brentford game starting that second half late is definitely dodgy though.

the stream showing in the US showed 5 minutes added, but I can hear the PA on commentary saying three minutes. I agree with the point re Cornet's injury - the on-screen clock showed 50 minutes 6 seconds, when the ref started to blow his whistle

Lots of ifs and buts. However the only certainty is we will be playing Championship next season. Tbh it should never have come down to that last day. Newcastle were bottom in December and had 0 wins in 14. We were second bottom. Newcastle recognized the problem and dealt with it. We did nothing until it was too late. Even then we made strange ( and cheap) decisions. MJ did way better than anybody could have expected but 1 point from the last 4 games tells you all you need to know. Missed pen at WHU and dubious pen at Spurs cost us big time. Overall we deserved to go down. Garlick and Pace should be hanging their heads in shame. Both carry a lot of the blame A bigger worry for me is lack of money / revenue/ players next season

AwayClaret wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 3:37 pm

To be fair Canos has a rep for being a bit dim and reckless. BUT it does seem a bit iffy. It's fine though as we won't have half as much bullshit next season. The Brentford game starting that second half late is definitely dodgy though.

And their first half finished before ours ! Obviously lots of negotiating during the extended interval

Beagle wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 9:58 am

It was five minutes stoppage time, though I was sure the announcer said three. But again, I sit in the JML, so he could’ve said anything.

I was listening on Clarets+ and BBC Sport. There was 5 mins added. I also heard announcement say 3 mins, which was a mistake.

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