It seems reading reports that our Cat 1 academy is being downgraded due to inadequate coaches
If that's the case surely we need to be offering our occ players like Bardo and Aaron Lennon a position .Both have a wealth of experience that can be of value to the club

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 3:12 pm

It seems reading reports that our Cat 1 academy is being downgraded due to inadequate coaches
If that's the case surely we need to be offering our occ players like Bardo and Aaron Lennon a position .Both have a wealth of experience that can be of value to the club

It’s being downgraded due to a number of issues but you don’t just give coaching roles to people just because they’ve been good players.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 3:36 pm

It’s being downgraded due to a number of issues but you don’t just give coaching roles to people just because they’ve been good players.

Has it definitely been downgraded then? Or have they lodged an appeal?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 3:36 pm

It’s being downgraded due to a number of issues but you don’t just give coaching roles to people just because they’ve been good players.

Has it been announced officially yet?

CT- How often can you apply fot Cat 1, is it assessed once per season or as and when the club thinks its got all bases covered ?

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 3:38 pm

Has it definitely been downgraded then? Or have they lodged an appeal?

According to reports it was subject to a final decision at the end of this week but haven’t heard anything definite.

Birmingham have confirmed that they’ve been demoted to Cat 2.

Would imagine the coaches would need to be able to show relevant qualifications/ badges, not just oh you have played in the top league therefore you are are capable of being a top coach

Were we ever actually officially made Cat 1 or was it just a provisional decision during covid times? Seeing a lot of differing reports.

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 4:01 pm

Were we ever actually officially made Cat 1 or was it just a provisional decision during covid times? Seeing a lot of differing reports.

Given a provisional two year licence but we’d have had to submit a lot of information to get that and I believe at that time we were set up for scat 1. However, when we were audited earlier this year a number of issues were found.

Two relegations in one season is not good ( if confirmed)

Safeguarding is an issue down there apparently

fanzone wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 6:23 pm

Safeguarding is an issue down there apparently

I know Helen, the club’s head of safeguarding, left in January. She’d been there a few years but I was told she’d had enough.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 6:35 pm

I know Helen, the club’s head of safeguarding, left in January. She’d been there a few years but I was told she’d had enough.

And if a head of safe guarding wasn't replaced with the equivalent or better then it deserves all it gets. Speaking to the coaches I know safeguarding is a big big issue.

fanzone wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 6:54 pm

And if a head of safe guarding wasn't replaced with the equivalent or better then it deserves all it gets. Speaking to the coaches I know safeguarding is a big big issue.

I think she’s been replaced now

I think, after the manager, the second most important signing of the summer should be a Chief Exec who actually has experience in football. Not an Executive Chairman whose football knowledge extends to once enjoying a Barca game 20 years ago.

Someone needs to get a grip of a number of issues at the club.

It's really not that difficult to be aware of the specific issues the audit will check and then make sure they are all sorted - every business has to do that. You can be absolutely pants at what you do and still pass the audit with top marks.

FeedTheArf wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 8:42 pm

I think, after the manager, the second most important signing of the summer should be a Chief Exec who actually has experience in football. Not an Executive Chairman whose football knowledge extends to once enjoying a Barca game 20 years ago.

Someone needs to get a grip of a number of issues at the club.

He’s removed the chief exec, the director of football and the head of recruitment and seems to be doing it all himself.

There was also a statement re the academy from Pace’s right hand man Mike Smith that didn’t reflect well.

Shocking news!
ALK made noises that the Academy was important! A massive failure on their part !

I do wish the club would at least try to improve communication with its fans as it seems, on a number of levels, that fans are becoming increasingly irrelevant. I don’t mean that the senior management have to report on every single event but on important matters like the academy silence is golden.
If there are safeguarding issues, these need addressing as a matter of urgency - in this day and age, it’s too important to neglect this area.
If coaches have left…why? Are they being replaced or has the financial aspect prevented this.
When he takeover occurred, I was under the impression that the new owners saw the development of young players as a priority.

If coaches is one of the reasons it doesn't surprise me. Even when Dyche was here we had only one outfield first team coach.
U23s and u18s don't even have an outfield coach. Not many teens have operate with so little staff.

In an era where teams have coaches dedicated to set pieces and ball control it's pretty behind the times. Not to mention the array of youth coaches other teams have.

The most worrying thing is we have some extremely promising U23s and U18s who might even have a better chance of breaking through now the club have slipped out of the PL, but we could easily now lose them as other clubs are better set up with youths playing at a higher level and it's far more appealing. It's such a shame and seems to have been totally avoidable.

Suratclaret wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:45 am

I do wish the club would at least try to improve communication with its fans as it seems, on a number of levels, that fans are becoming increasingly irrelevant. I don’t mean that the senior management have to report on every single event but on important matters like the academy silence is golden.
If there are safeguarding issues, these need addressing as a matter of urgency - in this day and age, it’s too important to neglect this area.
If coaches have left…why? Are they being replaced or has the financial aspect prevented this.
When he takeover occurred, I was under the impression that the new owners saw the development of young players as a priority.

The club couldn’t and rightly won’t comment on safeguarding issues.

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 10:09 am

The club couldn’t and rightly won’t comment on safeguarding issues.

The club could and should ensure that everything is in place to protect and develop the players in the academy.

I know you’re likely to spin everything to deflect criticism from Pace and co. but this doesn’t sound good.

DCWat wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 10:46 am

The club could and should ensure that everything is in place to protect and develop the players in the academy.

I know you’re likely to spin everything to deflect criticism from Pace and co. but this doesn’t sound good.

I can agree with that. If there are failings then there’s learning to undertake and opportunities to take to get things right. Especially when it involves the academy and those who attend it.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 6:46 am

If coaches is one of the reasons it doesn't surprise me. Even when Dyche was here we had only one outfield first team coach.
U23s and u18s don't even have an outfield coach. Not many teens have operate with so little staff.

In an era where teams have coaches dedicated to set pieces and ball control it's pretty behind the times. Not to mention the array of youth coaches other teams have.

Sorry but that’s just not how it is at all.

“U23s and u18s don’t even have an outfield coach” - where on earth have you conjured that up from?

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 6:46 am

If coaches is one of the reasons it doesn't surprise me. Even when Dyche was here we had only one outfield first team coach.
U23s and u18s don't even have an outfield coach. Not many teens have operate with so little staff.

In an era where teams have coaches dedicated to set pieces and ball control it's pretty behind the times. Not to mention the array of youth coaches other teams have.

This is why we shouldn’t talk about the academy in a message board. People just make things up and fill in gaps in their understanding with rubbish.

These are kids, not grown men. They deserve to develop their talent with some anonymity and freedom.

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 11:00 am

This is why we shouldn’t talk about the academy in a message board. People just make things up and fill in gaps in their understanding with rubbish.

These are kids, not grown men. They deserve to develop their talent with some anonymity and freedom.

And this is why we shouldn’t have someone coming on this board telling us what we can and can’t talk about.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 10:47 pm

He’s removed the chief exec, the director of football and the head of recruitment and seems to be doing it all himself.

There was also a statement re the academy from Pace’s right hand man Mike Smith that didn’t reflect well.

CT, I may be wrong but I am sure i can remember Pace also bigging up our plans for the academy while at the same time, slagging off Southamptons academy ( a really good set up from looking from a far)

Getting rid of Pepper is looking like a very poor action.

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 11:00 am

This is why we shouldn’t talk about the academy in a message board. People just make things up and fill in gaps in their understanding with rubbish.

These are kids, not grown men. They deserve to develop their talent with some anonymity and freedom.

Kids?
Under23s aren't kids

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 10:56 am

I can agree with that. If there are failings then there’s learning to undertake and opportunities to take to get things right. Especially when it involves the academy and those who attend it.

Learnings and opportunities to get things right?

This is a multi million pound business that has been running things for years. It's not a new business with no experience of safeguarding.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 11:47 am

And this is why we shouldn’t have someone coming on this board telling us what we can and can’t talk about.

We’ve been through that, you were shown to be wrong in what you accused me of.


It is right to offer caution about certain subjects. I have my own thoughts on the academy and what should remain behind closed doors and what should be allowed into the public forum.

You have the right to offer your own views. We might not agree, and that’s okay. It should be that we move on, sadly people chose not to and take every opportunity to pick up on posters thoughts.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 12:26 pm

Learnings and opportunities to get things right?

This is a multi million pound business that has been running things for years. It's not a new business with no experience of safeguarding.

No business sets out to make a mistake. Yet they all do, and these mistakes happen daily.

If you’ve got the time I’d point you towards ‘Black Box Thinking’ it’s a great book.

It seems we’re now taking safeguarding as THE reason for the downgrade. This highlights how a small piece of information and puzzle in the public domain can get blown out of proportion and be used to attack the club.

This is why it should remain private.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 12:20 pm

Kids?
Under23s aren't kids

They’re not but not all u23s are adults.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 10:47 pm

He’s removed the chief exec, the director of football and the head of recruitment and seems to be doing it all himself.

There was also a statement re the academy from Pace’s right hand man Mike Smith that didn’t reflect well.

Surprised he hasn't appointed himself manager yet.

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 2:25 pm

We’ve been through that, you were shown to be wrong in what you accused me of.


It is right to offer caution about certain subjects. I have my own thoughts on the academy and what should remain behind closed doors and what should be allowed into the public forum.

You have the right to offer your own views. We might not agree, and that’s okay. It should be that we move on, sadly people chose not to and take every opportunity to pick up on posters thoughts.

We’ve always had an interest in the youth side of the club here. We’ve raised thousands of pounds for the academy and I’m not having you coming on here like some academy King Dick telling us what we can and can’t discuss. You even ridiculously told us it was dangerous to discuss it, you’ve tried to belittle people who have worked hard for the academy in the past.

No longer will I put up with you telling us what we can and what we can’t discuss on here.

You’ve managed to do all this in just over a month since you registered. You might be better off staying away and trying to repair the damage the academy has suffered this season.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 2:41 pm

We’ve always had an interest in the youth side of the club here. We’ve raised thousands of pounds for the academy and I’m not having you coming on here like some academy King Dick telling us what we can and can’t discuss. You even ridiculously told us it was dangerous to discuss it, you’ve tried to belittle people who have worked hard for the academy in the past.

No longer will I put up with you telling us what we can and what we can’t discuss on here.

You’ve managed to do all this in just over a month since you registered. You might be better off staying away and trying to repair the damage the academy has suffered this season.

The academy will rightly get sorted, like I’ve said, where there’s opportunities to learn and where there’s action to be taken I am sure it will be taken.

I’ve not once told you or anyone else that they can’t discuss topics. I have consistently said there needs to be caution applied to subjects that are sensitive and that are still being managed.

I have my opinions, you have yours, I respect your right to those opinions. It goes without saying you should respect my right to have an opinion. We might disagree, that’s okay. It doesn’t mean that name calling should be resorted to. I don’t agree with that.

I and others would always be supportive of fans efforts to support the academy, be that through money raising or other ways. It’s fantastic that that’s the case. It doesn’t mean that fans then have open access or a right to information. The two are rightly separate issues.

Yet, safeguarding has been brought up, and now it’s being misused as a way for fans to target and got out at the club. Few know the full picture, that picture is being actioned.

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 2:28 pm

They’re not but not all u23s are adults.

So why televise these games (when the club can be bothered)?
Why put squad lists on the club's website?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 11:47 am

And this is why we shouldn’t have someone coming on this board telling us what we can and can’t talk about.

Ha, this is somewhat ironic.

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 4:01 pm

Were we ever actually officially made Cat 1 or was it just a provisional decision during covid times? Seeing a lot of differing reports.

There was a provisional licence for 2 years that was granted without an in person inspection. The first in person inspection seems to be what has triggered these issues.

No idea whether it's something that was only picked up by the physical inspection or something that had previously passed and now has issues.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 10:57 am

Sorry but that’s just not how it is at all.

“U23s and u18s don’t even have an outfield coach” - where on earth have you conjured that up from?

It's not made up. But I'm happy to know why I'm wrong.
First team had Loughlan and then Stone. Now Jackson and Jenkins who moved up from the u23s. Jenkins is assistant, but also Academy director. Both Jackson and Jenkins are managers.

Then for the u18s it's Philliskirk as manager.

The rest of the staff seem to have titles such as Development Coach, Transition Coach, Head Coach. What about specific coaches that help players with ball control, set pieces etc?
Do we have coaches assigned to ball control? Retention? Passing? Etc or do we just have general 'development' coaches?

Is there a way to see who the coaches actually are?

I'm not sure there's many teams that don't have more than one first team coach... Or right now no first team coach.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:02 pm

It's not made up. But I'm happy to know why I'm wrong.
First team had Loughlan and then Stone. Now Jackson and Jenkins who moved up from the u23s. Jenkins is assistant, but also Academy director. Both Jackson and Jenkins are managers.

Then for the u18s it's Philliskirk as manager.

The rest of the staff seem to have titles such as Development Coach, Transition Coach, Head Coach. What about specific coaches that help players with ball control, set pieces etc?
Do we have coaches assigned to ball control? Retention? Passing? Etc or do we just have general 'development' coaches?

Is there a way to see who the coaches actually are?

I'm not sure there's many teams that don't have more than one first team coach... Or right now no first team coach.

There’s general coaches then fitness, defending, attacking coaches etc. some clubs are extra specific with set piece coaches like Liverpool had the throw in one. If anyone needs a coach for ball control they shouldn’t be anywhere near a pro club.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:02 pm

It's not made up. But I'm happy to know why I'm wrong.
First team had Loughlan and then Stone. Now Jackson and Jenkins who moved up from the u23s. Jenkins is assistant, but also Academy director. Both Jackson and Jenkins are managers.

Then for the u18s it's Philliskirk as manager.

The rest of the staff seem to have titles such as Development Coach, Transition Coach, Head Coach. What about specific coaches that help players with ball control, set pieces etc?
Do we have coaches assigned to ball control? Retention? Passing? Etc or do we just have general 'development' coaches?

Is there a way to see who the coaches actually are?

I'm not sure there's many teams that don't have more than one first team coach... Or right now no first team coach.

Some of the job titles are required under EPPP.

Philliskirk is a coach no matter what the title, likewise Jackson at u23 level. John Townson was Philliskirk’s back up he left during the season and it looks as though Ross Wallace is now involved.

Andy Farrell is involved at u23 level.

As for behind that, Ian Jones is the head of coaching but the club don’t seem to list academy staff any longer.

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 3:07 pm

I have my opinions, you have yours, I respect your right to those opinions. It goes without saying you should respect my right to have an opinion. We might disagree, that’s okay. It doesn’t mean that name calling should be resorted to. I don’t agree with that.

You did it with me early on, resorting to "Ok boomer" nonsense when you couldn't get a rise with other provocative comments. Unless someone else was at the helm of the account at the time. Which given your consistent unconditional support of the ownership, and registration date, would make sense if you're an influencer account.

Of course if you're not some influencer and just decided to lurch from implications of connection to the board and passive aggressiveness to this new vaguely threatening advising people not to talk about stuff (while saying you're not shutting down conversation), then that's possibly stranger.

I understand the need for discretion especially regarding the academy as it involves minors. There's discretion and then there's a complete lack of communication outside of waffling PR. Which seems at odds with the original talk of being more open and communicative. People aren't asking for or expecting ALK to publicly flagellate themselves over every single perceived mistake. They would just like a bit of reassurance on the academy issues and communication with substance.

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:16 pm

You did it with me early on, resorting to "Ok boomer" nonsense when you couldn't get a rise with other provocative comments. Unless someone else was at the helm of the account at the time. Which given your consistent unconditional support of the ownership, and registration date, would make sense if you're an influencer account.

Of course if you're not some influencer and just decided to lurch from implications of connection to the board and passive aggressiveness to this new vaguely threatening advising people not to talk about stuff (while saying you're not shutting down conversation), then that's possibly stranger.

I understand the need for discretion especially regarding the academy as it involves minors. There's discretion and then there's a complete lack of communication outside of waffling PR. Which seems at odds with the original talk of being more open and communicative. People aren't asking for or expecting ALK to publicly flagellate themselves over every single perceived mistake. They would just like a bit of reassurance on the academy issues and communication with substance.

Christ on a bike!

‘Okay boomer’ is being compared to ‘King Dick’…

One is a social media meme/culture the other is just aggressive/offensive. I’d suggest that if the shoe was on the other foot, I’d be banned by the mods for using that phrase. That’s before you have the constant accusations that have been repeated and found unfounded.

As has been said, not everything can or should be communicated to the fan base. This is especially true in my opinion when it involves a fluid and ONGOING issue that is centred around a service that offers coaching and education to under 18s.

Would you like every detail of your job role and performance put into the public domain for people to talk/analyse and pass comment on?

When the situation is resolved and systems are in place to ensure the academy and club move forward, I am SURE the club will see fit to pass on that information to the fans.

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:37 pm

Christ on a bike!


Would you like every detail of your job role and performance put into the public domain for people to talk/analyse and pass comment on?

For some of us that is a reality.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:39 pm

For some of us that is a reality.

What job do you do Bill?

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:37 pm

Christ on a bike!

‘Okay boomer’ is being compared to ‘King Dick’…

One is a social media meme/culture the other is just aggressive/offensive. I’d suggest that if the shoe was on the other foot, I’d be banned by the mods for using that phrase. That’s before you have the constant accusations that have been repeated and found unfounded.

As has been said, not everything can or should be communicated to the fan base. This is especially true in my opinion when it involves a fluid and ONGOING issue that is centred around a service that offers coaching and education to under 18s.

Would you like every detail of your job role and performance put into the public domain for people to talk/analyse and pass comment on?

When the situation is resolved and systems are in place to ensure the academy and club move forward, I am SURE the club will see fit to pass on that information to the fans.

You'd been trying to rile me up previously and rather than engage with me in good faith just replied to a message with Ok boomer. Hardly the sincere, respectable debate you're claiming to champion.

You'll also notice I literally just said that I nor I would imagine most fans are expecting any of that. This strawmanning is an equally dishonest discussion tactic.

Nobody is asking for "every detail of [their] job role and performance put into the public domain". People are asking for transparency, sincerity and clear reassurance as to why the academy is being flagged for downgrade and how the club is going to correct or prevent this. Doesn't require flinging open the doors for everyone to inspect every square inch of the place, and it's weird you keep pretending that the only options are that or nothing because the fans, in your own words earlier, don't have a right to information. Which is again the polar opposite of the original noise about being more communicative with fans.

Communication generally involves some level of frankness, not just soundbites or rhetorical blather.

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:47 pm

You'd been trying to rile me up previously and rather than engage with me in good faith just replied to a message with Ok boomer. Hardly the sincere, respectable debate you're claiming to champion.

You'll also notice I literally just said that I nor I would imagine most fans are expecting any of that. This strawmanning is an equally dishonest discussion tactic.

Nobody is asking for "every detail of [their] job role and performance put into the public domain". People are asking for transparency, sincerity and clear reassurance as to why the academy is being flagged for downgrade and how the club is going to correct or prevent this. Doesn't require flinging open the doors for everyone to inspect every square inch of the place, and it's weird you keep pretending that the only options are that or nothing because the fans, in your own words earlier, don't have a right to information. Which is again the polar opposite of the original noise about being more communicative with fans.

Communication generally involves some level of frankness, not just soundbites or rhetorical blather.

Maybe I should move into politics, there at least my strawmanning would be fully appreciated!

It is in your opinion and it is your choice to get riled up. Okay boomer is a humorous meme response. I can’t help if you don’t get the reference or if you choose to become riled by it.

Championing respectful debate should be the goal of everyone who has a voice on the message board. Sadly, many fall short and many feel the need to call people out repeatedly hoping to provoke an emotive response so they can then throw there digital hands in the air and shout about it!

I could point towards the hatred voiced towards Newcastle, FCburnley, ablueclaret, and so on. It’s clear that there are tribes that allow and empower each other on the message board!

We can agree on your last point, but like I’ve said, if the situation is still live and ongoing how can the club give that? Should they give you a half story? It’s a complex and moving issue that has added complexity as it involves a service that delivers to under 18s.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 11:47 am

And this is why we shouldn’t have someone coming on this board telling us what we can and can’t talk about.

Blakesboots wrote: ↑

Sun May 29, 2022 5:41 pm

What job do you do Bill?

I have several jobs, all of which have an end product or involve a personal level of service, so I am judged on performance.
This goes for most people who run their own business(es) doesn't it?