Being reported in Training Ground Guru that we and WBA have lost our Cat 1 status. Dont know if its true or a very old story, so dont shoot me down

Yeah I’ve seen this.

‘Situation slightly unclear with Burnley as they submitted a detailed letter of mitigation to Professional Game Board, who have asked for further information.

But as things stand they've lost Cat 1 status/ looks like legal action would be only remaining option’

Looked as though we had a chance last week but if this is the case then what a shocking state of affairs

Latest seems to be that they have lost it but the article is a bit unclear on whether that is being further appealed.

The PGB agreed with PGAAC's decision to withdraw Burnley's Category One licence, which had been granted on a provisional two-year basis in July 2020 (it had been provisional because Covid meant full on-site audits were not possible in 2020).

Burnley did submit a detailed ‘letter of mitigation’, along with supporting documents, arguing that the failings identified by auditors at the start of this year had been down to Covid.

The PGB have asked for further information and Burnley believe the process is still ongoing. But, as things stand, the Clarets will lose their Category One status from the start of next season. As the PGB is English football’s final arbiter, Burnley would need to mount a legal challenge through the courts in order to try and overturn their demotion.

https://trainingground.guru/articles/bu ... emy-status

What isn’t clear is whether these are recent failings or if we’d have never got it in the first place in 2020 if Covid had allowed a full inspection.

Other clubs have been placed in “special measures”, but we’ve just been downgraded. So either that’s a pretty rapid and significant deterioration or we were lucky to get Cat 1 in 2020.

agreenwood wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:38 am

What isn’t clear is whether these are recent failings or if we’d have never got it in the first place in 2020 if Covid had allowed a full inspection.

I have been led to believe it is the staffing levels now as much as anything else. Like every other department in the club, it appears there has been a massive turnover of staff in the last 12-18 months.

How long do you need to wait until you can lodge for a promotion back to Cat 1?

It all went down hill when Dr Pepper left very sad news utc

No one likes us,we don't care.

So much for the reports we were confident of retaining Cat 1.
Crushingly disappointing this. Massive massive blow to any development plans.
Hopefully we can sort the staffing issus and reapply soon.

spt_claret wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:26 am

So much for the reports we were confident of retaining Cat 1.
Crushingly disappointing this. Massive massive blow to any development plans.
Hopefully we can sort the staffing issus and reapply soon.

It is crushingly disappointing.

I've no involvement now but it was so good this year to see us competing against the big clubs at academy levels, and we did compete well, particularly with some really good results for the under-18s. It will affect recruitment too, we are now a cat below five other north west clubs again.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:29 am

It is crushingly disappointing.

I've no involvement now but it was so good this year to see us competing against the big clubs at academy levels, and we did compete well, particularly with some really good results for the under-18s. It will affect recruitment too, we are now a cat below five other north west clubs again.

Crushing blow is a huge understatement. The message it sends out to potential signings at any level is that maybe things are not at all good behind the scenes and they should possibly look elsewhere. Awful when we're busy trying to sign top quality replacement first team players and hold on to our really promising U23s and U18s of which we have more than a few right now.

If confirmed this is not good, especially when our model appears to be developing youngsters and hopefully selling on a few for profit, plus maybe hoping a couple do make it to the 1st team ranks.

Such shocking news! Pace needs to give his a wobble

Relegation is just a part of sport, it can affect anyone, but this is just down to our, or the boards, incompetence.
No excuses, it's a bloody shambles that we lose Cat 1 because of staffing levels. What the hell were they thinking.

At least if it is due to something like staffing levels, it should be relatively easy to re-attain cat 1 status though?

Surely, in today’s mad world, we can just ‘identify’ as a Category 1 academy?

Falcon wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:36 am

At least if it is due to something like staffing levels, it should be relatively easy to re-attain cat 1 status though?

No idea how it works, but I guess you can only apply on an annual basis, so even if they do eventually sort it out, it'll hit us hard in the short term anyway.

What's bizarre is AP has been at pains to point out his strategy of plucking young players from other clubs, or developing our existing talent pool, then selling on a a profit, now in theory I totally agree with this plan, but if they aren't prepared to fund the staff to implement it it will be a dead duck.

This is what the accounts had to say about staff turnover, there has been a very distinct change in focus - remember this was just the first 7 months there have been plenty of changes since the end of last July - Under Pepper our Academy staffing had risen to almost 100 to facilitate the rise to Cat 1 (i.e. just to get there not stay there)

- Football staff reduced by 23 to 133
- Permanent sales, administration and ancillary staff increased by 39 (split 19:20 between full and part time) to 134 (split 85:49).

aggi wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:34 am

The PGB have asked for further information and Burnley believe the process is still ongoing. But, as things stand, the Clarets will lose their Category One status from the start of next season. As the PGB is English football’s final arbiter, Burnley would need to mount a legal challenge through the courts in order to try and overturn their demotion. [/i]

https://trainingground.guru/articles/bu ... emy-status

Not getting over excited by this. Close reading tells us ‘as thing stand’ i.e. it is not known if this will ultimately be the case.

If Burnley believe the process is still ongoing… would Burnley not know?
AS THINGS STAND - itself suggests things may yet change.

AS someone trained to ‘close read’ historical documentation… i see absolutely nothing here, we didn’t know. We could lose our status… but Burnley are confident they can put it right.

This is a massive step back for the club

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:57 pm

This is a massive step back for the club

IF it continues to be the case.

If….Biggest little word in the world.

It's been a big concern from many on here. The concern has now intensified by the statement about it can only be overturned through the courts.

Pace out!

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:18 pm

Pace out!

Best thing you have said on here

Have I read something different to everybody but Elwa, it doesn’t sound to me like it’s a certainty that it’s lost.

Also the other point which is well made above, I wonder whether we’d have secured CAT 1 in the first place if it wasn’t for Covid ie we’ve been operating a model we believed to be sufficient but close inspection, when finally allowed, suggests it isn’t?

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:40 pm

Have I read something different to everybody but Elwa, it doesn’t sound to me like it’s a certainty that it’s lost.

Also the other point which is well made above, I wonder whether we’d have secured CAT 1 in the first place if it wasn’t for Covid ie we’ve been operating a model we believed to be sufficient but close inspection, when finally allowed, suggests it isn’t?

If it was per Pace we would have been CAT 1 due to everything being spot on until he walked through the door.

Strange how when a report came out about the club retaining its status as CAT 1 it seemed to drop down the first page very quickly, but the hint of something negative and the bulb has been switched on to attract the moths.

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:43 pm

If it was per Pace we would have been CAT 1 due to everything being spot on until he walked through the door.

Strange how when a report came out about the club retaining its status as CAT 1 it seemed to drop down the first page very quickly, but the hint of something negative and the bulb has been switched on to attract the moths.

Why would it be a hot topic talking about something we already have? And should retain bar poor management.

Off course losing a critical aspect of the club is going to gain more attention

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:54 pm

Why would it be a hot topic talking about something we already have? And should retain bar poor management.

Off course losing a critical aspect of the club is going to gain more attention

Remember when you were told you don't have to have an opinion on everything

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:40 pm

Have I read something different to everybody but Elwa, it doesn’t sound to me like it’s a certainty that it’s lost.

Also the other point which is well made above, I wonder whether we’d have secured CAT 1 in the first place if it wasn’t for Covid ie we’ve been operating a model we believed to be sufficient but close inspection, when finally allowed, suggests it isn’t?

Yes it is lost and yes we would have got it.

I'm mighty pead off about this. Even more so if all we get is the usual 'silent treatment' from the club. If I was doing comms, I'd be engaging with fans about how the club is going to put things right.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:01 pm

Yes it is lost and yes we would have got it.

‘Yes we would have got it’

I mean that’s a statement which is more or less impossible to make. Maybe there is ‘belief’ we would have got it, but there appears to be a strong ‘belief’ right now that we shouldn’t be losing it.

Its a pretty serious thing for the club losing Cat 1 status.
Someone needs to be tasked with ensuring we try and meet the necessary standards to win it back and whats more ensure we retain it.

The Enclosure wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:05 pm

Its a pretty serious thing for the club losing Cat 1 status.
Someone needs to be tasked with ensuring we try and meet the necessary standards to win it back and whats more ensure we retain it.

Indeed it'll make recruiting, and more importantly retaining youngsters an awful lot tougher.

Shame if this does come to pass, as there's been tentative signs of progress at all age levels recently.

If we do get the required staff in how long do we have to wait before we can reapply for Cat 1 status?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:01 pm

Yes it is lost and yes we would have got it.

So we’ve definitely dropped a level, unless a further appeal proves to be successful?

Seems a lot like a restatement of the last info we had. We're down but it's under appeal.

DCWat wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:28 pm

So we’ve definitely dropped a level, unless a further appeal proves to be successful?

There isn’t an appeal I don’t think, that was the final verdict.

What a fiasco

very, very careless.
One would think, given their apparent interest in a worldwide scouting system, that they would prioritise getting this right.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:55 pm

There isn’t an appeal I don’t think, that was the final verdict.

Brilliant!

It sounds like an entirely avoidable issue to fail on, which is all the more ridiculous. Hardly a ringing endorsement of what’s going on under Pace’s watch.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:55 pm

There isn’t an appeal I don’t think, that was the final verdict.

It doesn't sound entirely clear cut from the article. There are suggestions the decision isn't quite made but no one seems to know exactly why.

It seems like all our fancy flashing lights are more important,In the meantime,please put back all of Our Heroes Portraits on the walls outside Turf Moor,where to all us fans they belong,and sorely missed,Please Mr Pace ! Also sort the Academy !UTC.

aggi wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:42 pm

It doesn't sound entirely clear cut from the article. There are suggestions the decision isn't quite made but no one seems to know exactly why.

It’s as clear as the Professional Game Board having backed the decision to withdraw our Cat 1 licence, suggesting that our only option is to take legal action.

I am very confident that everything was in place when we dumped Jon Pepper a year ago.

barracuda wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:20 pm

What a fiasco

Absolutely! There are clearly going to be published criteria which have to be met and have to be monitored by the PGB to ensure they continue to be met. Basically hoops to be jumped through. Anybody with an ounce of wit or common sense simply jumps through them and bingo, passes with flying colours! On the surface our failure here looks acutely embarrassing and the repercussions won't be good.

Such a shame if true and a setback to the business model.

If I remember though when we got it awarded it was much sooner than when we had planned to obtain it. Pretty sure when we went from 3 to 2, we expected it to be about another 3 years before we got to cat 1. Which gives credence to the doubt we would have got it in the first place had a full audit been done.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:45 pm

It’s as clear as the Professional Game Board having backed the decision to withdraw our Cat 1 licence, suggesting that our only option is to take legal action.

I am very confident that everything was in place when we dumped Jon Pepper a year ago.

But then you have this line in the article

The PGB have asked for further information and Burnley believe the process is still ongoing

Which makes you wonder why they have asked for further information if the decision is made.

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:55 pm

Absolutely! There are clearly going to be published criteria which have to be met and have to be monitored by the PGB to ensure they continue to be met. Basically hoops to be jumped through. Anybody with an ounce of wit or common sense simply jumps through them and bingo, passes with flying colours! On the surface our failure here looks acutely embarrassing and the repercussions won't be good.

Unfortunately the personnel on the Senior Management Team who's job it was to jump through those hoops in order for the criteria to be met, arrogantly chose to ignore some of it, presumably to save some pennies. The only thing Pace is guilty of is that this person is still in a position to carry on making similar decisions on behalf of the club.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:55 pm

There isn’t an appeal I don’t think, that was the final verdict.

Pace takes ultimate responsibility but it’s not just him he has brought in “helpers” that up to now have been hopeless!

I wonder if VK took the job and one of the conditions that influenced him was having Cat 1 status?