Instead of filling up the transfer thread let’s hear views on who or what are big clubs? As it stands there is no European super league but I have a firm view that it’s only a matter of time? Who would be the big 6? As it stands Newcastle would not be, now that would get the Saudi’s hitmen angry!

Talksport love the phrase “big club” because they can fill air time discussing what it means.

We can all agree Man Utd are big.

We can all agree Aston Villa are bigger than we are.

However how about say Derby vs Fulham. Everton vs West Ham? It is impossible.

Let’s face it … it’s a media thing
Leicester won the PL
Wigan won the FA Cup

Achievements on the pitch stand for nothing - the usual
Utd, City, Liverpool, Chelsea then add another look PL club and a promoted club that has done well in the past.

Sometimes a club can seem a big club based on where they are in the league when you start watching football.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:21 pm

Sometimes a club can seem a big club based on where they are in the league when you start watching football.

Any club in particular come to mind Tony ?

randomclaret2 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:22 pm

Any club in particular come to mind Tony ?

Clubs like Palace who were in the 4th division when I started watching football so to me they are a small club. I suppose that should mean I think we are a big club.

Only a Caveman can answer this.

I agree CT. Chelsea and City to me will always be a step down from Man U and Liverpool and Arsenal no matter how many trophies they win.

Top 10 in no particular order

1 Man Utd
2 Liverpool
3 Newcastle
4 Arsenal
5 Leeds
6 Spurs
7 West Ham
8 Everton
9 Aston Villa
10 Norwich

Thanks Caveman !

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:46 pm

Top 10 in no particular order

1 Man Utd
2 Liverpool
3 Newcastle
4 Arsenal
5 Leeds
6 Spurs
7 West Ham
8 Everton
9 Aston Villa
10 Norwich

Newcastle even Sunderland are miles bigger. Oh and Ipswich are bigger than Norwich

I'd base it on trophies won throughout their history.

So on that basis Liverpool and Man Utd are the 2 biggest clubs in England.

I doubt many would argue with that, but once you start moving away from the traditional powerhouses it gets much tougher.

Historically Burnley would certainly class as a big club, won 2 league titles, and an FA Cup, as well as competing in Europe.

History plain and simple

A lot of it is media hype and it's gone on for decades.

The noise made about certain clubs would have you thinking they've dominated English football over the last 20-30yrs when really they haven't.
See Leeds and Newcastle for examples.
West Ham aren't far behind them in the media hype machine.

Leeds' trophy haul isn't much different to Burnley's but one is viewed as a giant of the game....
West Ham's trophy haul is even worse but again they're viewed as a big club by the media.

I don't care how many tickets these clubs sell week in, week out, with little to no silverware to show for it, it's just hyperbole.

I see people cry about Chelsea only having recent history of winning trophies due to Abramovich, but it doesn't matter because they've won everything in the game during that era, that makes them flipping massive.

The "sleeping giant" mantra is also over used and out of date, this is thrown around when talking about clubs lower down like Sheff Wed, Sunderland etc.

If it was names then
LLANFAIRPWLLGWYNGYLLGOGERYCHWYRNDROBWLLLLANTYSILIOGOGOGOCH FC would win hands down

It's all about financial turnover and nothing is permanent, a few poor seasons and you are no longer big.

Well any report that says Brighton are in the top 20 is totally flawed

It has been a none answerable question for decades.

My top 4 are Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Celtic. To have Spurs constantly referenced in the same sentence as any of these whilst ignoring Clubs like Leicester shows how stupid the concept is really.

There is no universal benchmark to say which club is better between A and B. That's the bottom line.
It isn't history, it isn't trophies, it isn't size of ground. But that's assuming the debate is between reasonable people.

Ultimately it comes down to opinion. Clearly, nobody is going to be serious if they say that Forest Green Rovers are bigger than Arsenal. But comparing clubs like Burnley and Norwich, there's no winner in the debate either way.

andyh wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:49 pm

Well any report that says Brighton are in the top 20 is totally flawed

They are top in sussex......

Man United are on their way down.

Ten years ago, their armchair fans on the radio always whinged that they were "the biggest club in the world", (after they had dropped 2 points away at crystal Palace or when assuming that every player in the planet must want to play for them) but post-brexit/covid they are now saying "one of the biggest 4/5 clubs in the world".

Long may the downfall continue.

Norwich population 140,000, Watford 97,000 and Burnley 90,000 went down last year.

For all it’s magic - Football has some mundane realities. Course there are always exceptions but increasingly the PL consists of big city clubs.

Much different when the maximum wage was in operation.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:21 pm

Sometimes a club can seem a big club based on where they are in the league when you start watching football.

Wonder what fans of the likes of Halifax and Hereford who started watching football in the 80s have made of our relative fortunes since then? Wonder if they viewed us a big club (or sleeping giant back then)?

Does buying stature count?

I'll always consider Spurs and Arsenal to be bigger than Chelsea and City.

As a claret who lives in Norwich I’ve had plenty of debate with my canary mates over a beer. I think the argument should centre around transfer and wage budgets. Norwich were bigger but thanks to SD we are now in a better position. They have a slightly bigger ground and get better attendance but that’s about it. They do have good owners and the club is well run.

I’d put us in with the likes of Norwich, West Brom, Sheff Utd, Stoke etc. All similar clubs hoping for spells in the premier league.

JohnDearyMe wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:25 am

Wonder what fans of the likes of Halifax and Hereford who started watching football in the 80s have made of our relative fortunes since then? Wonder if they viewed us a big club (or sleeping giant back then)?

I remember talking to some Hereford fans after a 3-3 draw against them on the Turf in 1989. There was a big ex-Clarets dinner that night and so many of them were on the Turf with them all presented on the pitch at half time as we brought out one after another of our old stars including a string of former internationals.

The Hereford fans said they felt like gate crashers. One of them just said: "We really shouldn't be playing each other should we? Our two clubs are miles apart."

West Ham are completely bum licked by the media, like they're a massive club, but yet they've never won the league.

Its an age old argument, 'what defines a big club' or a 'sleeping giant'. In reality there's no way on this earth how Liverpool can compete with Man Utd. However here we are and Liverpool at present are in a different ball park in part because of how the clubs run. Sheff Wed might historically be a 'big club' but the reality is their in the 1st division. A lot of clubs have potential of which i'm sure we're one. Its a question of how its infrastructure, development and key, how the clubs managed.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:59 am

West Ham are completely bum licked by the media, like they're a massive club, but yet they've never won the league.

And Spurs have only won the league the same number of times as us.

So much for being a big club.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:26 am

And Spurs have only won the league the same number of times as us.

So much for being a big club.

There is no argument that Spurs are a big club. If you have found a criteria, which suggests otherwise it's not a good indicator of size.

Perhaps another thread entitled "successful club" would be better.

Right, absolutely f**king sick of these stupid arguments about size of club

Do you know what the biggest club in the world is to a real football fan?

The club he supports

Be that Man United, Burnley or Mansfield Town

I believe Mansfield were invited to join the European Super League and were disappointed it all fell through.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:21 pm

Sometimes a club can seem a big club based on where they are in the league when you start watching football.

Exactly this.

I was talking to an Aberdeen fan when they came down for the Europa league, he was on about our clubs and respective fortunes and what I thought. He was very surprised when I told him I viewed Aberdeen as a bigger club than Burnley as when I started watching Burnley were in the 4th division and Aberdeen were having success in Europe etc..
But I told him if you go and ask an older supporter who watched our glory years, they would say Burnley.
I think they get it rammed down their throats about the English Premier league and finances.

I used to view big clubs on their away support but the Premier league has killed the big away support with limits of 3k.

RMutt wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:10 am

I believe Mansfield were invited to join the European Super League and were disappointed it all fell through.

I like that!

No, but you see the point I'm making

The biggest club in the world to me will always be the one I support

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:59 am

West Ham are completely bum licked by the media, like they're a massive club, but yet they've never won the league.

If it wasn't for West Ham then England would never have won the World Cup. I think its unquestionable that West Ham are one of the top 10 biggest clubs in English football

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:23 am

If it wasn't for West Ham then England would never have won the World Cup. I think its unquestionable that West Ham are one of the top 10 biggest clubs in English football

West ham didn't win the world cup. England did.

I did read that one criteria for being a big club is if you have ever won a match on a wet Tuesday night under the lights at Turf Moor.

What makes a big club is quite complex. History counts as does current position. Fan base certainly is a big factor, which obviously isn’t limited to just the place the team
Is from. Current reputation also plays a part. Sunderland massive fanbase but team struggling and don’t have a huge turnover. Celtic/Rangers massive fanbase not many clubs rival their fanbase worldwide yet commercially they are relative minnows.