Gonna be strange without it. Will have to find something else to blame. The good news it will stop DA from supporting every VAR decision that goes against us !

Is this a wind up?

Last three games of last season.

VAR awarded Spurs a pen which I still think is wrong
VAR doesn’t award us a pen at Villa which is just about the same as the one at Spurs
VAR awards Newcastle a pen which shows the benefit of using it

I won’t miss it though

Well as someone who wanted it to come in, supported it coming in.then hated it. Ruined the match day experience.

No. There's a place for VAR if used correctly. There's no place for it when it's used by people who think it's more important than the game.

The difference between rugby union VAR and rugby league VAR is interesting. Rugby union VAR will interfere on anything and everything, and the ref can't do anything about it. Rugby league VAR only intervenes if the ref asks them to, and it will only be at game-changing moments, and even then the ref has already given his decision which will only be overturned if there is conclusive proof.

Football's system is a lot too close to rugby union's and needs to change to be more like rugby league's. IMO.

(Oh, and change the offside rule back to "level is onside".)

Always thought that VAR would make it a little fairer to the small guys like us, unfortunately not, it helped PGMOL and the Premier League achieve what they wanted. It stopped me from enjoying goals and hating that dredded walk over to the monitor.

Not one little bit. I’d rather the ref get it wrong occasionally and be spared the fake drama, delays, diluted celebrations and lack of putting the world to rights in the pub afterwards. We’ll win some and lose some over it.

My son plays hell with me as I have remained seated each time Burnley have scored since Wood's headed goal from a McNeil cross was disallowed "by a nose being offside" versus West Ham in 2019? He of course goes mental like many others. I just say I'm not cheering until VAR has finished running through the all the potential ways of disallowing the goal. By the time this occurs the moment has nervously passed and we move on.

Looking forward to next season when a quick glance at referee and linesman heading back to the centre and I can enjoy celebrating a Clarets goal as I always used to do.

Hated VAR. Great in principle but very poorly applied by English referees too nervous to make a decision.

For all the ways it has greatly reduced the number of laughably bad refereeing decisions, it does stifle the experience of watching a game and celebrating a goal, which is the best thing about watching football. I see it like a spoiler for a book or a film or a tv show. You hear or read the spoiler (the goal), then you're watching to see how it plays out in the knowledge the goal is coming (VAR allowing it). Sure, you get correct decisions most of the time, but it has a numbing side effect. I want raw, instantaneous, certain, unfiltered goal celebrations; I want to feel it in my veins. I'm happy to pay for that with costly refereeing mistakes and great injustice.

No

Just another means to ensure 'the right result'.

I'll miss it like I'd miss a nasty dose of galloping knob rot.

I don't have a problem with VAR technology, it works fine in other fast paced, complex team sports- rugby for example- never perfect but nothing is.
My problem is and has always been with the officials in charge of VAR, who are the same pool of officials in charge on the pitch, who are the same pool of officials paid by PGMOL, which ever since its introduction to "improve refereeing standards" in 2001 has only seen refereeing standards go backwards, and increasingly inconsistent- although startlingly consistent for certain clubs. PGMOL is completely unfit for purpose.

So in a way I will miss VAR, because I don't expect things to be any better at all- after all, lots of us expected them to be when VAR was introduced and they weren't.

I took my 10yr old daughter to the 3-1 defeat to Villa at home last season. When Cornet ran through on goal to score for us, she instinctively sensed the goal scoring threat, jumped to her feet with excitement and celebrated when he scored. I thought that he was offside and said to her, “it probably won’t be a goal sweetheart, I’m pretty sure he’s offside.” She sighed and sat down in disappointment. I was wrong. The goal stood and by the time I’d been able to work it out and explain my mistake, the moment had passed.

It was her first visit to the Turf and the first time she’d seen Burnley score live. Technically it was me that spoiled it for her, but without VAR that uncertainty would never have happened and I definitely won’t miss it.

back to celebrating a goal when the ball goes in and not when some **** decides who has the bigger nose. I wanted it in but not the clowns that don't know how to use it. Delighted not to have it.

Incompetent refs supported by var robbed us of points that relegated us .Worst idea ever, no I won't miss it .

To be able to celebrate a goal immediately with a quick glance at the linesman will be bliss. Will just have to suck it up when we get robbed with an offside goal.

Enjoy it for the one season while it last, one way or another we'll have it the season after

dsr wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:45 pm

No. There's a place for VAR if used correctly. There's no place for it when it's used by people who think it's more important than the game.

The difference between rugby union VAR and rugby league VAR is interesting. Rugby union VAR will interfere on anything and everything, and the ref can't do anything about it. Rugby league VAR only intervenes if the ref asks them to, and it will only be at game-changing moments, and even then the ref has already given his decision which will only be overturned if there is conclusive proof.

Football's system is a lot too close to rugby union's and needs to change to be more like rugby league's. IMO.

(Oh, and change the offside rule back to "level is onside".)

Interesting - I’ve never watched a second of rugby league and haven’t watched rugby union for years bar the World Cup final or odd Lions game. I didn’t know they use it differently.

One thing I would say is video referees in rugby union seem to do a pretty good job and nobody grumbles?

VAR in football will work. But like all technology it’s only as good as the human using it and the current batch of referees are pretty shocking bar one or two.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:30 pm

Well as someone who wanted it to come in, supported it coming in.then hated it. Ruined the match day experience.

Exactly this

I like it so I'll miss it, there will undoubtably be times when we wished we had it.

Sometimes I liked it, others l didn't.

Couldn't care less one way or the other

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:12 am

I like it so I'll miss it, there will undoubtably be times when we wished we had it.

Fair enough, but for the majority of posters who have expressed the opposite view, could you please explain how it improved your matchday experience and your enjoyment of the game?
I'm not saying that it doesn't improve the accuracy of decisions (overall), and that on balance some people might prefer to have it than not, but I can't really understand why anyone would actually "like" it.
(Undoubtedly there have been times when we were grateful for it, but equally the opposite.)

Never wanted it.
Never enjoyed any of it, including when we've benefitted through a fingernail being onside etc (Villa away a few years back)
Never will i miss it.
As others have said, it ruins the spontaneity of the occasion; hasn't really eliminated obvious errors and has made things more ambiguous (Barnes handball at Spurs). In addion we've had to change the laws of the game to try and make it work.
None of these things were part of the original purpose of VAR - according to those signs in the men's urinals still hanging up in the Turf ("clear and obvious" etc). It's has reduced transparency as now we have people re-reffing the game on monitors advising the on field ref. -? For every decision they refer to the on field ref, how many, what kind and for who, are they ignoring or allowing play to carry on?

If it is to continue then I feel they need to revert to the original principle, not necessarily 'getting everything right', because that has proven impossible, its a game played and officiated by humans, not an algorithm. Ideally follow the principles of cricket.
Support the official
Eliminate the 'howler'
Accept that you will still win some, lose some, but the integrity and transparency remains intact.

Good riddance. Instead of one crap referee potentially you can get two.

The farce over the handballs vs Spurs & Villa away shows that even with two refs., they cannot apply the rules consistently.

Best just to have one ref cocking it up, we can all at least empathise with human error.

In terms of 'offside' how many decisions can people remember pre -VAR when we felt really aggrieved about the poor decision?
The one that springs to mind is Dunn's at Ewood when he was about 4 yards off. I cant think of many more. Apart from that, generally we accepted that they are close'-calls and generally even themselves out. With VAR it feels like every single game offside is discussed and analysed. Has that improved the match day experience for people since it was introduced?

It’s a no from me. It’s a get out for most PL refs the majority of time.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:01 am

Fair enough, but for the majority of posters who have expressed the opposite view, could you please explain how it improved your matchday experience and your enjoyment of the game?
I'm not saying that it doesn't improve the accuracy of decisions (overall), and that on balance some people might prefer to have it than not, but I can't really understand why anyone would actually "like" it.
(Undoubtedly there have been times when we were grateful for it, but equally the opposite.)

I think it adds drama to games and whilst it needs a lot of work, it has the potential to add more accuracy to decisions which I believe will improve the game. One of the best games I've been too was when we played Bournemouth at home, they had a goal disallowed in favour of our penalty:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... y-penalty/

I am also like everyone here a Burnley fan who has seen years and years of bias against us from referees favouring bigger teams. I think if done right, VAR can finally put an end to that.

I understand other people's points of view but have my own. I personally don't find the decision-making process detracting from celebrations at all and I like to be able to see how close decisions are whether they go for or against you.

But I'm pretty liberal when it comes to new rules and changes. I think there are lots of things, including VAR (when implemented better) can do to improve the game and that football in general is quite a bit behind other sports when it comes to improving the spectacle.

I don't really want to turn this into another VAR debate, I respect other views and I know it means work, but hopefully this at least gives you some insight into the opposite view.

No

It was a decent idea at the start but then ruined the whole thing with it being implemented by dickheads

The many issues with VAR was not helped by fans and pundits who often didn't know the laws of the game.

Were there mistakes and questionable interpretations? Yep, absolutely.

But VAR did get decisions right, though even when it did the response was often "yeah, well...but...". VAR wasn't there to make the game perfect, just to remove some obvious mistakes. This season we will get stung by a ref missing sonething obvious which VAR would have negated.

The comparisson to rugby often misses a couple of important facts
- that often the review is checking a situation when the ball is dead.
- the players and fans respect the decision. In rugby it's not always about what is right but what the interpretation was. Unfortuntately football players are often throwing tantrums and lack the maturity to understand this. Likewise pundits who will happily lambast the ref for not seeing a dive whilst exonarating the player doing it.

VAR will never be accepted, regardless whether it works or not.

People will only miss it when we're having clear and obvious decisions going against us

I’m another who thought VAR would be a positive in the game. I was wrong and won’t miss it one bit (well until the first very obvious refereeing error that VAR would have corrected of course!)

scamander wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:38 am

The many issues with VAR was not helped by fans and pundits who often didn't know the laws of the game.

Were there mistakes and questionable interpretations? Yep, absolutely.

But VAR did get decisions right, though even when it did the response was often "yeah, well...but...". VAR wasn't there to make the game perfect, just to remove some obvious mistakes. This season we will get stung by a ref missing sonething obvious which VAR would have negated.

The comparisson to rugby often misses a couple of important facts
- that often the review is checking a situation when the ball is dead.
- the players and fans respect the decision. In rugby it's not always about what is right but what the interpretation was. Unfortuntately football players are often throwing tantrums and lack the maturity to understand this. Likewise pundits who will happily lambast the ref for not seeing a dive whilst exonarating the player doing it.

VAR will never be accepted, regardless whether it works or not.

It can never work properly when decisions such as handball will always be down to the opinion of the referee. Likewise with the amount of contact on a player in the penalty area.

As VAR is administered at the moment, NO. The VAR officials should be ex referees, ex players, ex managers etc. i.e. people who might understand football and have no connection with the officials at the game. Why waste a current official by placing him/her in an office administering VAR when he/she could be officiating at a match ?

Not at all.

I don't mind VAR in a game that I have no interest in, it adds a bit of interest debating the decisions and trying to second guess what they'll come up with (often a bit of a lottery) but in games that I actually cared about, particularly those where I was attending, it made it worse every time.

It's further legitimised the "there was contact so he was entitled to go down" stance, if you're at the ground you still have no idea what is going on and they removed the "clear and obvious" condition so it could be used for anything and everything.

There are instances where VAR works really well, but that nagging feeling of scoring a goal and not fully celebrating due to it being potentially being disallowed on review just isn't worth it.

So I'm not going to miss it one bit

NO

Like a spike in my skull

Spiral wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:24 am

For all the ways it has greatly reduced the number of laughably bad refereeing decisions,

Has it?

VAR works pretty well across Europe. It has been really poor here for whatever reason (my personal view is the referees don't want it and have prioritised protecting each other over implementing it properly) and nobody has seemed willing to challenge it or improve it. Really won't miss it but it's a hell of a shame it's not very good.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:09 am

Incompetent refs supported by var robbed us of points that relegated us .Worst idea ever, no I won't miss it .

Being sh!t didn't help much either.

I was in favour of VAR and still think it's the implementation of the technology that is the problem, not the tech itself. Until we have robot refs there will always be mistakes from the humans making the decisions, that's inevitable.

It will be nice to be able to celebrate a goal without worrying it could be VARred off after five minutes of nerds poring over slo-mo replays to try to find a minor reason to disallow it, but on the flip side there will now be serious meltdowns whenever an obviously wrong penalty/red card/whatever gets missed.

I also think we're in for a rude awakening regarding the standard of officials. There are not many very good ones in the PL but you can rest assured the ones in the Championship are going to be even worse.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:39 am

VAR works pretty well across Europe. It has been really poor here for whatever reason (my personal view is the referees don't want it and have prioritised protecting each other over implementing it properly) and nobody has seemed willing to challenge it or improve it. Really won't miss it but it's a hell of a shame it's not very good.

Yes it does appear to function fine in other leagues, yet for some reason in the PL it's been a shambles in many instances, it doesn't help that the VAR officials will rarely if ever challenge or overrule the on field ref.

There are issues with VAR, but the biggest problem is the standard of reffing these days, that said it doesn't help with the childish antics of the players and their constant diving and surrounding the referees demanding decisions go their way.

Claretforever wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:46 pm

Not one little bit. I’d rather the ref get it wrong occasionally and be spared the fake drama, delays, diluted celebrations and lack of putting the world to rights in the pub afterwards. We’ll win some and lose some over it.

Agree with this 100%

I always had the sense that bad refereeing decisions evened themselves out over a season. VAR seems very much otherwise. Agree also that VAR totally ruins the experience

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:39 am

VAR works pretty well across Europe. It has been really poor here for whatever reason (my personal view is the referees don't want it and have prioritised protecting each other over implementing it properly) and nobody has seemed willing to challenge it or improve it. Really won't miss it but it's a hell of a shame it's not very good.

I think some of this is true but I think it is more a case of VAR seeming to work better when you are watching football that you dont have as much personal involvement in.

We are pretty much detached from European football but in the Premier League a lot more games and decisions matter to the fans and that means the bias comes in where most fans from all teams think the majority of decisions are going against them. This creates a really negative view which once embedded is very hard to shake.

You can see from the comments on this thread alone people think that VAR is biased towards certain clubs and that Burnley have been hard done by and suffered because of this but you would get the exact same view from every set of fans in the Premier League which is impossible to be true.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:41 am

Yes it does appear to function fine in other leagues, yet for some reason in the PL it's been a shambles in many instances, it doesn't help that the VAR officials will rarely if ever challenge or overrule the on field ref.

Think it's been more of a problem the other way tbh. The refs rarely challenge var when a lot of the time they should really be sticking with their original call.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:13 am

I think some of this is true but I think it is more a case of VAR seeming to work better when you are watching football that you dont have as much personal involvement in.

We are pretty much detached from European football but in the Premier League a lot more games and decisions matter to the fans and that means the bias comes in where most fans from all teams think the majority of decisions are going against them. This creates a really negative view which once embedded is very hard to shake.

You can see from the comments on this thread alone people think that VAR is biased towards certain clubs and that Burnley have been hard done by and suffered because of this but you would get the exact same view from every set of fans in the Premier League which is impossible to be true.

Can't disagree with rampant bias (including myself), but to be fair it also has worked a lot better at major international tournaments where I do have as much of a stake. And a lot of the refs aren't even professionals like ours.

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:29 am

Can't disagree with rampant bias (including myself), but to be fair it also has worked a lot better at major international tournaments where I do have as much of a stake. And a lot of the refs aren't even professionals like ours.

I agree the international tournaments have been better but I suspect that has a bit to do with the pace of the game and the intensity which is a lot different to the Premier League. I do agree with some of your other points about maybe how our refs have adopted it an their attitude towards it but I think there is a lot more to is than just that as per our last few posts

The negative impact of it by far outweighs any positives it's brought.

I won't miss it in the slightest, even when some laughably bad calls are made against us by EFL officials I won't for a second wish it was in place. Many issues with it but the biggest is the absolute buzzkill it is for fans in the stadium.

I think when people say it works in Europe or at international tournaments that's from the perspective of watching it on TV where the atmosphere is less of a factor, even when you've a stake in the game. For example, there's always been a bit more restraint in celebrating when watching on TV because you can't just glance at the linesman/ref as they're often off screen, the commentator may also hint a goal may not stand so you're half ready for it.