The Brazilian lad signing will surely be a backup for both full back positions he can play both left and right and Maatsen can play down the wing and replace McNeil.

No

No

No

Won’t be able to replace adequately

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:22 am

Won’t be able to replace adequately

Aye it's going to be a struggle to find someone who can provide 1 assist and no goals next season.

If we sign O'Hare I won't be worried about losing McNeil.

SalouClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:28 am

Aye it's going to be a struggle to find someone who can provide 1 assist and no goals next season.

If we sign O'Hare I won't be worried about losing McNeil.

Footballs better understood through use of complex stats and your eyes, not reduced to a single data point.

SalouClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:28 am

Aye it's going to be a struggle to find someone who can provide 1 assist and no goals next season.

If we sign O'Hare I won't be worried about losing McNeil.

I think things are slightly different than last season!

Never see the likes of him again

Considering VK’s system does not use wingers, this is not as much of a loss as it might be otherwise.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:29 am

Footballs better understood through use of complex stats and your eyes, not reduced to a single data point.

Its two data points, no goals being the first and one assist being the second.

SalouClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:28 am

Aye it's going to be a struggle to find someone who can provide 1 assist and no goals next season.

If we sign O'Hare I won't be worried about losing McNeil.

Pretty useless comparison. Given Ohare is two years older and the highest level he has played is mid table championship.

McNeil has never played lower than the premier league and he probably won’t do

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:33 am

Its two data points, no goals being the first and one assist being the second.

I think the most appropriate point of reference is that we are in the Championship this season and not the PL which those two data points are based on.

I think people undervalued McNeil last season to be honest, and I think he'll be the biggest miss of those that have gone

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:39 am

I think people undervalued McNeil last season to be honest, and I think he'll be the biggest miss of those that have gone

100%
It wasn’t rocket science you stopped McNeil you stopped Burnley, we offered absolutely nothing going forward because teams realised they just had to stop him.

Top Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:30 am

Never see the likes of him again

Jesus Christ

Top Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:30 am

Never see the likes of him again

Is that a serious post? McNeil has been gash for nigh on 2 seasons.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:29 am

Footballs better understood through use of complex stats and your eyes, not reduced to a single data point.

My eyes and the complex stats show that Dwight was found out some time ago. Show him on to his right foot and that's his game done. His head drops after 10 minutes of a game. 1 half-decent game in 10 isn't good enough.

Murger wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:54 am

Is that a serious post? McNeil has been gash for nigh on 2 seasons.

If we don’t get promoted again do you think we will?

Do we already have McNeil's replacement? Let's hope not.

Well if football is based purely on stats then yes JBG had pretty much the same contribution last season and was hardly ever available

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:19 am

Well if football is based purely on two stats then yes JBG had pretty much the same contribution last season and was hardly ever available

Fixed that for you.

Teams didn't double up on mcneil they simply made him come inside /go backwards. Every team that plays him knows he has one foot which yes is excellent but unfortunately I can't see him doing well on the wing. I personally thought he looked more effective through the middle but he isn't a number 10 so where do you play him. I'd say it's a cracking move for both parties.

Don't think Maatsen will be Dwight's replacement, Kompany doesn't use traditional wingers and I haven't seen anything of Maatsen to suggest he'd be suitable for the more centre of the pitch role McNeil would have been set to play this season.

Everton fans in for a shock if they think that McNeil will be a replacement for Richarldson.

Just hope they give Dwight a chance or it could be miserable time for him with the crowd on his back

Our most talented homegrown(ish) player since Steven.. He's the player I'm least happy to see leave the club...and was obviously the man that our opponents doubled up on in the last 2 seasons.

If Lampard uses him well, he'll be running the show over there by bonfire night.

Top Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:36 am

Everton fans in for a shock if they think that McNeil will be a replacement for Richarldson.

Oh heck!

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:39 am

Our most talented homegrown(ish) player since Steven.. He's the player I'm least happy to see leave the club...and was obviously the man that our opponents doubled up on in the last 2 seasons.

If Lampard uses him well, he'll be running the show over there by bonfire night.

Lampard will be doing well to be using anything at Goodison by November

Apparently on another thread he's shite and only got one leg.....I have a replacement lined up.....me!

So we continue to sell the Crown Jewels. Anyone with a sale value is gone or going. 90 millions worth replaced by 10 millions worth. It isn't going to work. A Jamie Vardy is one in a million. Between them our previous owners and the new ones have sold us up the river. I don't blame Mike Garlick for selling I blame him for who he sold it to.

Let’s face it, if he had become the player he looked as if he might be, he would have gone some time ago. For whatever reason. - his limitations, coaching, the way he was deployed (?) - he lost his way. Lucky to get a ‘big’ PL club

McNeil 17 assists and 7 goals in 134 league games, was he worth 20 million ?

Do we have McNeil’s replacement?

I bloody hope not - cheque book out right now please. If O’Hare is who Kompany wants then it’s time to get him. Any pretence that we cannot afford him is now gone - get it done.

jedi_master wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:28 am

Do we have McNeil’s replacement?

I bloody hope not - cheque book out right now please. If O’Hare is who Kompany wants then it’s time to get him. Any pretence that we cannot afford him is now gone - get it done.

Affording it and paying the ridiculous 12 million Coventry want are two totally different things

I think VK sees Benson as his replacement

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:31 am

Affording it and paying the ridiculous 12 million Coventry want are two totally different things

It’s who Kompany wants.

£12m will be topside based on promotion and what not too, at which point we wouldn’t care. Last time we got relegated we signed Andre Gray for £6m that rose to £9m on promotion for example.

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:31 am

Affording it and paying the ridiculous 12 million Coventry want are two totally different things

I’d like to think we’ve got others targets rather than paying that ridiculous fee Coventry are demanding (which they’re perfectly entitled to do of course).

Vitinho came out of the blue, so maybe Kompany has some more jokers up his sleeve from the continent?

I'm pretty sure £12m goes a lot further out there than for a mid table championship player in O'Hare.

Murger wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:54 am

Is that a serious post? McNeil has been gash for nigh on 2 seasons.

McNeil has just gone for nigh on £20 million and he's apparently been "gash" for two seasons

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:38 am

McNeil has just gone for nigh on £20 million and he's apparently been "gash" for two seasons

He has

AGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:42 am

He has

His goals and assists have dropped, but his ability to run with the ball and keep possession under pressure hasn't, and that is why he's not "gash" and why he's going for £20 million

Big loss and we can’t replace him, unless a minor miracle happens.

He’d have been the best player in the Championship.

Top Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:30 am

Never see the likes of him again

Taffy James was four times the player…….and could use BOTH feet!

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:34 am

I’d like to think we’ve got others targets rather than paying that ridiculous fee Coventry are demanding (which they’re perfectly entitled to do of course).

I'd prefer to take O'Hare, Coventry are a rival for top 6, strengthen ourselves and weaken them in one transfer would be a smart move.

Potentially a Premier League side comes in late in the window and takes one of the other "big 3" players there (Hamer/Gyokeres) and that's them out of the picture altogether.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:54 am

His goals and assists have dropped, but his ability to run with the ball and keep possession under pressure hasn't, and that is why he's not "gash" and why he's going for £20 million

Worth mentioning his xA (expected assists) last season was 5, which, by no means is outstanding, but basically showed he created enough chances for teammates who didn't finish. Many players in the division 'outperform' their xA, meaning they didn't create many quality chances for teammates, but got credited with an assist (for example a short pass 30 yards from goal which a player then drills into the top corner would still be an 'assist'). I also recall it was his excellent threaded ball to Weghorst against Wolves who then slid it across for Vydra, not the assist but it was a pass no one else in that team was capable of. People who just go off goals and assists for certain types of players, in certain systems, really struggle to 'get' it.

Mcneil has been really poor for almost two seasons....if we get 20 mil for him its like stealing money off everton,,
but thats ok in my book.There are lots of clarets supporters think he is wonderful, but the stats and facts say otherwise.He was playing in a poor
team,and using hoof from defence tactics so not to his advantage,but he never really looked premiership class,lets see how he does at everton.
Looking forward to our new era,which starts on friday......hoping for a good start,but not expecting too much early on,we need to give them time
to build up a good understanding of new tactics,but it will take time.LETS GET BEHIND THEM AND GIVE IT A REAL GO.

The fact he's played well over 100 PL games at 22 and is being bought by an established PL team suggests he is PL class, but go off.

Nobody ever claimed DM is the complete package - not quick, too one-footed - but it is strange how fans never really took to him. You would expect the only player to come through our system since Jay to be a fan favourite but he never was, despite being one of our best players since his debut.

I don't really understand the argument O'Hare is a "mid table Championship player" either. He is clearly one of the best, if not the best, in the league for his position. If anything his superb returns are even more impressive having come playing in a pretty duff team. It's like saying James Ward-Prowse is a bottom-third PL player when he is clearly better than Southampton.

jackmiggins wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:57 am

Taffy James was four times the player…….and could use BOTH feet!

So was Ralph Coats and Dave Thomas

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:59 am

Worth mentioning his xA (expected assists) last season was 5, which, by no means is outstanding, but basically showed he created enough chances for teammates who didn't finish. Many players in the division 'outperform' their xA, meaning they didn't create many quality chances for teammates, but got credited with an assist (for example a short pass 30 yards from goal which a player then drills into the top corner would still be an 'assist'). I also recall it was his excellent threaded ball to Weghorst against Wolves who then slid it across for Vydra, not the assist but it was a pass no one else in that team was capable of. People who just go off goals and assists for certain types of players, in certain systems, really struggle to 'get' it.

All excellent points and agree 100%.
The people who complain the most about the use of data/stats in football are generally also the ones who don't undestand it or use anything beyond the most basic-level stats. And then act like xG, xA etc. are made up meaningless numbers because they're hypotheticals rather than what they are- probability analysis based on analysis of percentages of goals from different shooting situations. xG/xA aren't everything in assessing a player but they're very useful and as you rightly point out, McNeil would have had significantly better baseline stats if teammates hadn't squandered chances.
He's a good player who if he didn't have his limitations would have left for a club like United in summer 2019 or 2020, and on the eye test alone his technical skill is obvious.