Yes, we really are Brazil. There were even Brazilian flags in the away end last night. Ordem e Progresso,ironically a motto more suited to our previous manager. That was just the Athletic, other reports heralding the dawn of a new footballing age. Good triumphing over evil, progress, hope, the dawning of a new age. If Owen Coyle was Moses, then Vincent Kompany surely is Leonardo da Vinci. Florence in the late 1400’s. Renaissance.

Of course we were absolutely superb last night.

Whilst celebrating this win, a hope, that Sean Dyche’s reputation remains sacrosanct. Not constant comparisons (and unfair ones) to playing style, physicality, Brexit football, hoof ball. A narrative that is at best unfair at worst plain wrong. A narrative sadly espoused by some of our own. Very sadly.

He was and will likely be our most successful manager.

In anticipation that this historical revisionism remains very much on the margins.

Could the Brazillian Flags have something to do with Vitinho our new Brazillian player

I would have thought so. Perhaps you’re missing the point of my post?

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:28 pm

I would have thought so. Perhaps you’re missing the point of my post?

Not really was just making an observation

He was not our most successful manager.

I think you’ll find he was given his starting base and comparative lack of resources. There’s a wider point I’m making however.

Pstotto lives

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:24 pm

He was and will likely be our most successful manager.

Not as successful as Harry Potts

jtv wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:45 pm

Not as successful as Harry Potts

Expelliarmus ... oh hang on thats Harry Potter not Harry Potts

Surely, Burnley's .most successful manager was Harry Potts.

jtv wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:45 pm

Not as successful as Harry Potts

Toss up between Potts or John Haworth, both won the 1st division title, but Haworth won the only FA Cup in our history, and yes I'm well aware it was a totally different era in those days.

Purely in terms of major honours won that duo are easily our most successful managers without question.

Points taken. Perhaps I should have said “successful in the modern era.”

Wider themes remain.

And I thought it was John Bond.

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:05 pm

Points taken. Perhaps I should have said “successful in the modern era.”

Wider themes remain.

Bit unfortunate when your title is Historical Revisionism and your guilty of doing exactly that! How about “more successful than many”?

Not quite but if that’s what you want to go with.

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:24 pm

Yes, we really are Brazil. There were even Brazilian flags in the away end last night. Ordem e Progresso,ironically a motto more suited to our previous manager. That was just the Athletic, other reports heralding the dawn of a new footballing age. Good triumphing over evil, progress, hope, the dawning of a new age. If Owen Coyle was Moses, then Vincent Kompany surely is Leonardo da Vinci. Florence in the late 1400’s. Renaissance.

Of course we were absolutely superb last night.

Whilst celebrating this win, a hope, that Sean Dyche’s reputation remains sacrosanct. Not constant comparisons (and unfair ones) to playing style, physicality, Brexit football, hoof ball. A narrative that is at best unfair at worst plain wrong. A narrative sadly espoused by some of our own. Very sadly.

He was and will likely be our most successful manager.

In anticipation that this historical revisionism remains very much on the margins.

Would you consider Sean more successful than Harry Potts, John?

Edit to the above: sorry, didn’t read the other comments in the thread. This has already been addressed.

I agree with the overall message of your post btw, but I also think there’s no harm in people getting a little carried away in their enthusiasm. Last night was cathartic for many of us who were unsure or even anxious about how this new team would perform.

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:24 pm

Yes, we really are Brazil. There were even Brazilian flags in the away end last night. Ordem e Progresso,ironically a motto more suited to our previous manager. That was just the Athletic, other reports heralding the dawn of a new footballing age. Good triumphing over evil, progress, hope, the dawning of a new age. If Owen Coyle was Moses, then Vincent Kompany surely is Leonardo da Vinci. Florence in the late 1400’s. Renaissance.

Of course we were absolutely superb last night.

Whilst celebrating this win, a hope, that Sean Dyche’s reputation remains sacrosanct. Not constant comparisons (and unfair ones) to playing style, physicality, Brexit football, hoof ball. A narrative that is at best unfair at worst plain wrong. A narrative sadly espoused by some of our own. Very sadly.

He was and will likely be our most successful manager.

In anticipation that this historical revisionism remains very much on the margins.

Sean Dyche won this division when it was harder than it now. Lets hope VK can emulate that.

davideyresleftear wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:17 pm

Would you consider Sean more successful than Harry Potts, John?

I agree with the overall message of your post btw, but I also think there’s no harm in people getting a little carried away in their enthusiasm. Last night was cathartic for many of us who were unsure or even anxious about how this new team would perform.

Absolutely! Let’s get carried away. You word cathartic is spot on.

However, my point (which seems to have got lost in the debate over “successful”) is that there definitely is a narrative creeping in which seeks to discredit (one of) our most successful managers.

I really couldn’t answer your question. Potts won the title which was and is incredible. Dyche operating in a different financial age also worked miracles. It’s hard to compare.

What’s your view?

It's grand.

We had a a great manager for what we needed at the time and he did a great job.

We appear to have a great manager for what we need to do in the near future, lets hope he does a great job

I’d be happy if people simply stop talking about it

The way the team played last night reminded me of the young team that beat Leeds Utd 5-1 on 19th October 1968. The Burnley team that day was: Thomson, Smith, Latcham, Dobson, Waldron, Blant, Thomas, Murray, Casper, Coates, Kindon.

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:24 pm

Absolutely! Let’s get carried away. You word cathartic is spot on.

However, my point (which seems to have got lost in the debate over “successful”) is that there definitely is a narrative creeping in which seeks to discredit (one of) our most successful managers.

I really couldn’t answer your question. Potts won the title which was and is incredible. Dyche operating in a different financial age also worked miracles. It’s hard to compare.

What’s your view?

I think it’s a lot like the situation with Wenger at Arsenal. Things soured toward the end and there was some vitriol from parts of the support. It’s a raw wound, our relegation and worsening performances that led to it.

Given a bit of time and distance 99% of clarets will remember the Dyche era fondly. Many of us will tell our kids/grandkids/great grandkids about what a bloody brilliant time it was to support our club (and they’ll tell us to shut up and stop talking about stuff from years ago). I’m already nostalgic about the first promotion season under Sean and how out of nowhere and amazing it was.

At the same time, I’m really looking forward to the future. I’m glad we got a manager with a different play style, rather than appointing someone who is a Sean Dyche mark 2, but much worse than him.

This was an interesting topic, thanks for starting it

davideyresleftear wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:09 pm

I think it’s a lot like the situation with Wenger at Arsenal. Things soured toward the end and there was some vitriol from parts of the support. It’s a raw wound, our relegation and worsening performances that led to it.

Given a bit of time and distance 99% of clarets will remember the Dyche era fondly. Many of us will tell our kids/grandkids/great grandkids about what a bloody brilliant time it was to support our club (and they’ll tell us to shut up and stop talking about stuff from years ago). I’m already nostalgic about the first promotion season under Sean and how out of nowhere and amazing it was.

At the same time, I’m really looking forward to the future. I’m glad we got a manager with a different play style, rather than appointing someone who is a Sean Dyche mark 2, but much worse than him.

This was an interesting topic, thanks for starting it

And you pal !

Suggesting that Potts was more successful than Dyche is not denigrating Dyche in any way.

Who suggested that ?

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:28 pm

I would have thought so. Perhaps you’re missing the point of my post?

There’s a point to the post?

Absolutely - Sean Dyche is the man who guided us to away wins over Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool and qualification for Europe - all things that were inconceivable for fans who lived through the dark years.

Kompany has made a promising start to life in the Championship and generated some much needed positivity and excitement.

If he achieves half what Dyche managed in terms of results he'll also be remembered as one of our greatest.

forzagranata wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:09 pm

Absolutely - Sean Dyche is the man who guided us to away wins over Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool and qualification for Europe - all things that were inconceivable for fans who lived through the dark years.

Kompany has made a promising start to life in the Championship and generated some much needed positivity and excitement.

If he achieves half what Dyche managed in terms of results he'll also be remembered as one of our greatest.

Dyche took control of a squad good enough for promotion. Coyles achievement was much better in context than what Dyche managed, but it’s not fashionable to say that.

Dyche made a mess of the job in the last 2 years. Very lucky not to have got punted earlier

Dyche took over a squad that in the previous half season he was in charge finished 11th. He then re-built it so it was good enough to gain automatic promotion and not rely on the roulette of the play offs unlike Coyle.

Unless I am mistaken we were 16th in the Championship when Eddie Howe left. Moved up some places with wins under Pashley but we were far from looking promotion material.

Surely Sean Dyche's reputation is based on comparison with those who have managed before him.
i don't get why Vincent Kompany should even get mentioned in respect of revisionism, he's only managed one game.

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:24 pm

Yes, we really are Brazil. There were even Brazilian flags in the away end last night. Ordem e Progresso,ironically a motto more suited to our previous manager. That was just the Athletic, other reports heralding the dawn of a new footballing age. Good triumphing over evil, progress, hope, the dawning of a new age. If Owen Coyle was Moses, then Vincent Kompany surely is Leonardo da Vinci. Florence in the late 1400’s. Renaissance.

Of course we were absolutely superb last night.

Whilst celebrating this win, a hope, that Sean Dyche’s reputation remains sacrosanct. Not constant comparisons (and unfair ones) to playing style, physicality, Brexit football, hoof ball. A narrative that is at best unfair at worst plain wrong. A narrative sadly espoused by some of our own. Very sadly.

He was and will likely be our most successful manager.

In anticipation that this historical revisionism remains very much on the margins.

Talk about historical revisionism, I thought Owen Coyle was once God? He was then relegated to Judas where he remains for many/most Burnley fans, although I still think of him highly (but not as high as the supreme being) as he started the modern journey (perhaps Moses is right then although I don't recall it!). Perhaps he will eventually be airbrushed out of our history, Soviet style.

Historians have the right to revise if new evidence comes to light. In Dyche's case we may get some inside information that we currently lack, perhaps from various biographies.

VK is not qualified to be anything yet. We should revisit this thread at the end of the season (or earlier if things don't go so well).

SD performed an absolute miracle and unbelievably he kept on performing it for some considerable time. I will never, ever bad mouth him or belittle his amazing achievements. He took us from nothing, going nowhere, almost broke Championship also rans to Premier League World famous somebody's and even managed to keep us there for several years. What he achieved was nothing short of a miracle and even now with the brilliant team we put out last night, we're still riding on the back of it, especially in financial terms. He gave me the most pleasure I've ever had in 60 years of watching The Clarets and that can never be allowed to be tarnished, whatever comes next.

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:45 pm

SD performed an absolute miracle and unbelievably he kept on performing it for some considerable time. I will never, ever bad mouth him or belittle his amazing achievements. He took us from nothing, going nowhere, almost broke Championship also rans to Premier League World famous somebody's and even managed to keep us there for several years. What he achieved was nothing short of a miracle and even now with the brilliant team we put out last night, we're still riding on the back of it, especially in financial terms. He gave me the most pleasure I've ever had in 60 years of watching The Clarets and that can never be allowed to be tarnished, whatever comes next.

Well said DC, and also in his list of achievements don't forget,the longest unbeaten run against the B@stards most of us have ever known.

BigRedrose wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:29 pm

Well said DC, and also in his list of achievements don't forget,the longest unbeaten run against the B@stards most of us have ever known.

Anyone has ever known I would have thought

Shaggy wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:24 pm

Dyche took control of a squad good enough for promotion. Coyles achievement was much better in context than what Dyche managed, but it’s not fashionable to say that.

Dyche made a mess of the job in the last 2 years. Very lucky not to have got punted earlier

I know you don't rate what Dyche achieved at Burnley, but to suggest he inherited a squad good enough for promotion is bunkum imo.

We were treading water at best when he took the reins, and although we had a few decent players brought in by Eddie, we were nowhere near considered promotion contenders, even more so when we sold Austin on the eve of the season.

Another big difference is Dyche stuck around when things got tough, whereas Coyle couldn't wait to jump ship when Bolton came calling, and don't forget we were on a 9 match winless run when Coyle scarpered, so hardly ripping it up in the Prem were we.

Coyle did well, notably in the cups, but it's worth noting we only squeaked into the play-offs on the final day, while SD has twice overseen automatic promotions with a points tally of over 90 points in the Champ.

Yes things went pear-shaped in Sean's last 2 years, but he still presided over one of the most successful periods in our history.

Can Kompamy come anywhere near matching those standards who knows, but if he does he'll equally be lauded by the Clarets faithful.