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Tom Daley
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:50 pm
by fatboy47
Anybody else seen his documentary around homophobia in sport this evening.?
Great stuff....hope the lad stays in tv.
I like him... Top lad.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:15 am
by Jamesy
Excellent documentary. It is great to see someone as prominent in sport as Tom highlighting the issues faced by gay and lesbian athletes.
On a lighter note I bet some of the horrible anti gay trolls wouldn’t be as brave if they had to stand with their toes dangling over the edge of that top diving board. Takes some bottle to go up there in the first place, never mind execute a perfect dive off it.
Top athlete is Tom.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:59 am
by Grandpa Claret
I actually don’t believe a large percentage of the worlds people are against gays. It’s just the media creating an issue, same applies to racism.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:24 am
by gandhisflipflop
Grandpa Claret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:59 am
I actually don’t believe a large percentage of the worlds people are against gays. It’s just the media creating an issue, same applies to racism.
You’re a wise grandpa.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:58 am
by Loyal Supporter
Grandpa Claret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:59 am
I actually don’t believe a large percentage of the worlds people are against gays. It’s just the media creating an issue, same applies to racism.
The majority of countries at the Commonwealth games have homosexuality as a crime and they are regularly beat, torture and imprison gays. You need to open your eyes mate.
North Yorkshire is full of homophobes and they don't attempt to hide it either.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:24 am
by timshorts
.... is on man United's radar as they need his abilities in the box.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:27 am
by Big Vinny K
timshorts wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:24 am
.... is on man United's radar as they need his abilities in the box.
I see the programme had a big impact on you
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:29 am
by Burnley1989
Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:27 am
I see the programme had a big impact on you
I assume he means diving, I don’t think he’s attempting to be homophobic.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:47 am
by MACCA
Burnley1989 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:29 am
I assume he means diving, I don’t think he’s attempting to be homophobic.
And there you have it, someone being genuine is accused of being homophobic, by the person that was actually having the homophobic thoughts/beliefs.
As people have pointed out previously, a lot of the time it's the people who are racist, homophobic etc are the ones that drum up these things to often cause tension that wouldn't normally be there.
They're the ones you need to be careful of... especially believing their supposed beliefs and intentions.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:53 am
by Big Vinny K
MACCA wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:47 am
And there you have it, someone being genuine is accused of being homophobic, by the person that was actually having the homophobic thoughts/beliefs.
As people have pointed out previously, a lot of the time it's the people who are racist, homophobic etc are the ones that drum up these things to often cause tension that wouldn't normally be there.
They're the ones you need to be careful of... especially believing their supposed beliefs and intentions.
What are you prattling on about ?
If he wasn’t then it’s a very unfortunate use of language which would be better deleted.
It’s hardly subtle is it ?
Your other points are pretty much akin to the argument often used from those who like to point out they can’t be racist because they have an Asian friend at work.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:56 am
by GodIsADeeJay81
Grandpa Claret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:59 am
I actually don’t believe a large percentage of the worlds people are against gays. It’s just the media creating an issue, same applies to racism.
Any place that's very Christian or Muslim will be against gays.
That's why Gay people in the USA are getting nervous right now, because after the abortion rules being overturned, there's a wide spread belief that same sex marriages will be the next target because of what the Christians think the Bible says (ironic after what the Catholic church has been caught doing)
Numerous countries can and will imprison people for being gay and some will execute you for it.
This isn't a media issue, this is a religious issue and always has been, specifically Christians and Muslims, with their centuries of anti-homosexuality rhetoric.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:08 am
by MACCA
Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:53 am
What are you prattling on about ?
If he wasn’t then it’s a very unfortunate use of language which would be better deleted.
It’s hardly subtle is it ?
Your other points are pretty much akin to the argument often used from those who like to point out they can’t be racist because they have an Asian friend at work.
Let him without sin cast the first stone and all that.
Just pointing out were very quick to make assumptions, and that's often how problems and tensions start where there wasn't any until the wrongful assumption/accusation was made.
Causes more harm than good usually, and that's why a lot of people wanting to stir up hatred often do it that way round.
Pull the pin, throw it and walk away.
( not saying you have done that, but it's often a tactic used )
It's better if everyone always sees the good In someone or their actions first IMO, then there is know "well I thought that's what they meant" as no one knows what others are thinking or meaning, even more so when written or read.
Anyway must dash, have a good day.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:08 am
by TheFamilyCat
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:56 am
Any place that's very Christian or Muslim will be against gays.
That's why Gay people in the USA are getting nervous right now, because after the abortion rules being overturned, there's a wide spread belief that same sex marriages will be the next target because of what the Christians think the Bible says (ironic after what the Catholic church has been caught doing)
Numerous countries can and will imprison people for being gay and some will execute you for it.
This isn't a media issue, this is a religious issue and always has been, specifically Christians and Muslims, with their centuries of anti-homosexuality rhetoric.
No, Grandpa Claret doesn't believe it so it can't be right.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:23 am
by fatboy47
I think my takeaway from the documentary was that homophobes still populate more "enlightened" countries and consist mainly of the empty-heads, trolls and gobsh1tes that infest social media sites such as ours.
Out in the less developed world these cultures are often at the helm, promoting envy, fear, and sadistic harassment towards LGBTQ and any other soft targets.
Tom covered it well, in particular exposing the vulnerabilities of these minorities and the ineffective responses of our own leaders.
I hope we hear more from him soon.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:42 am
by Big Vinny K
fatboy47 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:23 am
I think my takeaway from the documentary was that homophobes still populate more "enlightened" countries and consist mainly of the empty-heads, trolls and gobsh1tes that infest social media sites such as ours.
Out in the less developed world these cultures are often at the helm, promoting envy, fear, and sadistic harassment towards LGBTQ and any other soft targets.
Tom covered it well, in particular exposing the vulnerabilities of these minorities and the ineffective responses of our own leaders.
I hope we hear more from him soon.
Yep agree with that.
America as it has always been is a country of extremes - which vary massively state by state. Some states are modern thinking and unfortunately many states are as backward and bigoted as they come pretty much anywhere in the world.
Then there are countries where culturally and religiously homophobia is embedded in society. Whether the change comes in these societies in the next fifty years or not we don’t know but if it does it’s certainly going to be a longer road than in this country with many more obstacles in the way than we experienced because of the way those societies look at religion etc and the way they are ruled politically too. Fundamentally the tolerance in these societies is just so low and it’s so difficult for any movement to change things to get any momentum as they will be quashed in brutal ways so as you say they are ran on fear and threat.
In terms of the social media hatred Tom Daley received it’s an absolute disgrace that this can continue to happen with no repercussions for those posting. The fact that people can post things like this anonymously is the kind of characteristic of a society that is equivalent to the abhorrent places we condemn as extreme and backward.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:08 am
by BurnleyFC
When I started out in the army some twenty odd years ago, you weren’t allowed to be gay and would be kicked out if you were.
Absolutely bonkers.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:19 am
by GodIsADeeJay81
BurnleyFC wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:08 am
When I started out in the army some twenty odd years ago, you weren’t allowed to be gay and would be kicked out if you were.
Absolutely bonkers.
20 odd years ago we still had section 28 in force courtesy of the Tories and Labour dragging their heels in cancelling it.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:20 am
by Billy Balfour
fatboy47 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:23 am
I think my takeaway from the documentary was that homophobes still populate more "enlightened" countries and consist mainly of the empty-heads, trolls and gobsh1tes that infest social media sites such as ours.
I agree. Twitter and FB etc are massive. Sites like ours are tiny in comparison, yet the homophobes and trolls stand out a mile on forums where you have an 'emotional' connection to the football club you support. A couple of posts in, and it had already started. I bet we lose people over this kind of thing, or at least stop them for contributing. I know I question my 'involvement' when reading through posts by sad, needy trolls and worse.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:51 am
by GodIsADeeJay81
Just finished watching it.
Very good, very powerful and very interesting show.
Small steps lead to bigger changes.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:12 am
by Tribesmen
Didn't get to see it last night but some good points above about the States .
Strange how Ireland have kind off gone from where the Church ruled every part of life here to where we are now .
I think it's great to see same sex couple holding hands walking down the street without fear of what could happen here in Galway .
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:22 am
by TheFamilyCat
Tribesmen wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:12 am
Didn't get to see it last night but some good points above about the States .
Strange how Ireland have kind off gone from where the Church ruled every part of life here to where we are now .
I think it's great to see same sex couple holding hands walking down the street without fear of what could happen here in Galway .
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Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:23 am
by GodIsADeeJay81
Tribesmen wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:12 am
Didn't get to see it last night but some good points above about the States .
Strange how Ireland have kind off gone from where the Church ruled every part of life here to where we are now .
I think it's great to see same sex couple holding hands walking down the street without fear of what could happen here in Galway .
To be fair the child abuse scandal in Ireland by the church has helped people break away from the grip of religion
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:24 am
by arise_sir_charge
Billy Balfour wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:20 am
I agree. Twitter and FB etc are massive. Sites like ours are tiny in comparison, yet the homophobes and trolls stand out a mile on forums where you have an 'emotional' connection to the football club you support. A couple of posts in, and it had already started. I bet we lose people over this kind of thing, or at least stop them for contributing. I know I question my 'involvement' when reading through posts by sad, needy trolls and worse.
This is a genuine question, which posts are you referring f to?
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:36 am
by GodIsADeeJay81
arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:24 am
This is a genuine question, which posts are you referring f to?
I'm going to guess at Grandpa's comment.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:37 am
by Greenmile
Folk are a little more subtle these days. Thankfully, openly expressing homophobic or racist views is frowned upon by the majority of our society (in this country), so instead they downplay it by suggesting homophobia / racism doesn’t exist, or isn’t really a problem. You won’t find many PoC or LGBT+ folk making this argument, funnily enough.
There’s a post in this thread doing exactly that which has garnered an unsurprising number of likes.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:40 am
by Raconteur
arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:24 am
This is a genuine question, which posts are you referring f to?
I've not seen any. We have had timshort make a joke that references Tom Daley being a diver. Then Big Vinny K jumps to the wrong conclusion and somehow tries to make out it was homophobic
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:09 pm
by Big Vinny K
Raconteur wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:40 am
I've not seen any. We have had timshort make a joke that references Tom Daley being a diver. Then Big Vinny K jumps to the wrong conclusion and somehow tries to make out it was homophobic
Happy to apologise if that was the case but maybe read the post again and there is zero mention of him being a diver but there is mention of something else.
As said at best it’s a badly worded post and also even if the post was a joke about diving it’s a bit out of context with the seriousness of the programme and issues Tom Daley is raising.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:12 pm
by Jakubclaret
Raconteur wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:40 am
I've not seen any. We have had timshort make a joke that references Tom Daley being a diver. Then Big Vinny K jumps to the wrong conclusion and somehow tries to make out it was homophobic
That’s a rare turn up for the books people purposely distorting what’s been posted & finding things which aren’t there.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:21 pm
by arise_sir_charge
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:36 am
I'm going to guess at Grandpa's comment.
Interesting, I read that as a more positive message ie thankfully it’s not as common as the media portrays or the coverage it receives.
I suppose I can see how it may be interpreted differently though.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:26 pm
by wilks_bfc
Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:09 pm
Happy to apologise if that was the case but maybe read the post again and there is zero mention of him being a diver but there is mention of something else.
As said at best it’s a badly worded post and also even if the post was a joke about diving it’s a bit out of context with the seriousness of the programme and issues Tom Daley is raising.
.... is on man United's radar as they need his abilities in the box.
I bet 99% of those reading it interpreted it as him being a “diver” and nothing else
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:29 pm
by NRC
I’m glad others are scratching their heads about the display of homophobia. I saw grandpa display his head in the sand, and then an attempt to make a footballing joke that had no intended homophobia in it.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:56 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:21 pm
Interesting, I read that as a more positive message ie thankfully it’s not as common as the media portrays or the coverage it receives.
I suppose I can see how it may be interpreted differently though.
Homophobic attacks in the UK have gone up in the last 4-5 yrs.
There are countries where you can be jailed and/or executed for being gay.
If you look around on line, homophobic abuse is happening every single day.
There are homophobic comments on here whenever this sort of thing is discussed and then people wonder why people don't want to admit their sexuality on this forum during these discussions.
To sit there and say it isn't that common is just plain wrong.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:03 pm
by Top Claret
Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:12 pm
That’s a rare turn up for the books people purposely distorting what’s been posted & finding things which aren’t there.
If they can't find a problem they will make it up and scream down all who disagree
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:07 pm
by joey13
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:19 am
20 odd years ago we still had section 28 in force courtesy of the Tories and Labour dragging their heels in cancelling it.
You mean section 28 which was brought in by the Tories and repealed by Labour
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:09 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
joey13 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:07 pm
You mean section 28 which was brought in by the Tories and repealed by Labour
Took them 4 years to repeal it, hence my original comment.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:23 pm
by fatboy47
Grandpa Claret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:59 am
I actually don’t believe a large percentage of the worlds people are against gays. It’s just the media creating an issue, same applies to racism.
I wonder how may of those liking this post actually watched the programme with open (or even slightly open) minds.....because it actually, step by step, obliterated the argument therein, with harrowing real life testimonys from across the Commonwealth.
I also wonder what Grandpa bases his sweeping beliefs on, but I'm sure he'll purport to be a widely-travelled, well-read and perceptive observer of the world and not just some Sun-reading trog who once had a week in Torramolinos.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:34 pm
by AlargeClaret
So a thread without even a scintillia of homophobia is populated by people virtue signalling their own "gay friendly " stance while seemingly inferring the forum is full of homophobes and nazis? As for the joke and it's offened poster you really do have to laugh. Perhaps if he'd said "UTD need a big man up top to save them hitting rock bottom" he'd have missed it totally,when the "joke" is playing to the gay dynamic without being offensive (or funny)
As for Gays being "thrown out the army" ,this never to my knoweledge EVER happened unless some sort of undercover story. It was of course on the entry criteria as it was in pretty much any world armed forces until sensibly removed. Anyone who served in the army/navy/raf/merchant etc will almost definitely had a few gay men/women in their Company inc officers .
Daley's docu does shed light on the more barbaric attitudes in Africa,Asia,Caribbean etc you could throw in all the middle east,russia and vast swathes of asia. Militant gays are actually few and far between ,most really couldn't give a flying feck and have a complete and utter ambivalence to the whole "LGBT agenda" i must have met 1000's in my years working in the village and almost all were "i am what i am and don't give a sh1t" Lesbians tended to be more vocal on rights issues,though in fairness they tended to "hate" most on the sexual spectrum. Just my tuppence worth,but people need to think a little before calling foul.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:18 pm
by Claret Till I Die
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Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:25 pm
by Hipper
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:56 pm
Homophobic attacks in the UK have gone up in the last 4-5 yrs.
There are countries where you can be jailed and/or executed for being gay.
If you look around on line, homophobic abuse is happening every single day.
There are homophobic comments on here whenever this sort of thing is discussed and then people wonder why people don't want to admit their sexuality on this forum during these discussions.
To sit there and say it isn't that common is just plain wrong.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/homop ... ics-704851
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:41 pm
by TheFamilyCat
Quick question.
If Tom Daley wasn't a diver, do you think a comment about his "abilities in the box" would be ok?
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:41 pm
by arise_sir_charge
Is it that they have actually trebled or is it that they are now (rightly) being called out more as people are becoming more tolerant of peoples ‘choices’ and less tolerant of those who display hatred etc to them and so more people report cases and feel empowered to do so.
Also social media is a breeding ground for this kind of thing, it will be a tiny % of the users of such platforms that display such attitudes but again sadly the platforms in their current guise brings these people to the fore.
In respect of other countries and continents etc I can’t comment and I didn’t watch the documentary although I will try and get it to n catch up.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:43 pm
by arise_sir_charge
TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:41 pm
Quick question.
If Tom Daley wasn't a diver, do you think a comment about his "abilities around the box" would be ok?
Moot point as I doubt the joke would have been made if he wasn’t a diver.
Similar question though, if he wasn’t openly Gay would you have perceived the comment to have been anything other than a reference to his career as a diver?
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:58 pm
by TheFamilyCat
arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:43 pm
Moot point as I doubt the joke would have been made if he wasn’t a diver.
Not on this, or any football message board perhaps but could be made in a different context
Similar question though, if he wasn’t openly Gay would you have perceived the comment to have been anything other than a reference to his career as a diver?
Probably not but that's the point. Only timshorts himself will know whether that wording was in reference to his sexuality or just clumsy. But it highlights the lack of understanding the issues faced by LGBTQ people.
The number of people both denying that homophobia exists and failing to see how words or phrases can be offensive just highlights the need to continue to raise these things.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:21 pm
by Foreverly Claret
As the VERY proud father of a gay 32 year old daughter , the programme frightened me as have some of the posts on here .Attitudes in Pakistan and the Middle East are fairly common knowledge but I was surprised by what I learned about some other places such as Jamaica and Nigeria fostered to a large extent by religious bigotry .As a parent of four grown up kids all I'm bothered about is that they have loving stable relationships...heterosexual or otherwise .
Well done Tom...took some guts to come out when you did AND to make a programme like that.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:37 pm
by aggi
Given that just a few weeks ago the UK's largest religion sought to affirm the validity of a 1998 declaration that gay sex is a sin it's difficult to suggest that homophobia isn't still an issue.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:54 pm
by Grandpa Claret
fatboy47 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:23 pm
I wonder how may of those liking this post actually watched the programme with open (or even slightly open) minds.....because it actually, step by step, obliterated the argument therein, with harrowing real life testimonys from across the Commonwealth.
I also wonder what Grandpa bases his sweeping beliefs on, but I'm sure he'll purport to be a widely-travelled, well-read and perceptive observer of the world and not just some Sun-reading trog who once had a week in Torramolinos.
I actually have a wide spectrum of personally researched information. Not some BBC made documentary that again drums up a false perception, just like it does with racism. Divide and conquer. It seems it is working with you young man.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:54 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
Grandpa Claret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:54 pm
I actually have a wide spectrum of personally researched information. Not some BBC made documentary that again drums up a false perception, just like it does with racism. Divide and conquer. It seems it is working with you young man.
Which part was false about what goes on in various countries?
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:55 pm
by Grandpa Claret
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:54 pm
Which part was false about what goes on in various countries?
I suggest you do your own research, which is the basis of my comments in the first place.
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:57 pm
by Jimmymaccer
BurnleyFC wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:08 am
When I started out in the army some twenty odd years ago, you weren’t allowed to be gay and would be kicked out if you were.
Absolutely bonkers.
Pretty sure on Remembrance Day there was a chap parading for the first time. Been in the army and served in Afghanistan etc But when “found out” he was gay they disciplined him, chucked him out and took back all his service medals. This was the first time he’d been allowed and invited to parade complete with medals……..and so they should!
Re: Tom Daley
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:01 pm
by Jakubclaret
Grandpa Claret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:55 pm
I suggest you do your own research, which is the basis of my comments in the first place.
Some people just want to be offended & will willingly succumb at the drop of a hat even at the most innocent of comments, you could give them a blank piece of paper & a problem would be there.