Oh Burnley is wonderful….

[CombatClaret]

To be fair most women's teams would sing about the former

Haha. It's funny because women footballers are all lesbians.

Ignorant, sexist, childish.

[Jakubclaret]

I sincerely hope it’s a song that remains to stay despite some people trying to overturn years of tradition upon disagreement.

[Zlatan]

Well that's what Zlatan wants

77A6D013-8574-45DC-8FC5-6A4241D7E7C2.gif (558.1 KiB) Viewed 1584 times

[claretonthecoast1882]

When aged about 15 used to think this song was cool and enjoyed singing it.

Then as you get older most people grow up, not all mind but most. Imagine taking your daughter to a match sitting next to her and singing it. If when you think about that you decide you wouldn't sing it then it tells you what you need to know, if on the other hand you would still sing it then you're a wrong un

[Socrates]

There is no sliding scale of morality. Either all of it is ok or none of it is

I mean …… that’s just plain wrong.

Racist chanting is ok? What about a chant about the Cardiff striker who died in the plane crash?

Under your theory that’s all fine.

[Jakubclaret]

When aged about 15 used to think this song was cool and enjoyed singing it.

Then as you get older most people grow up, not all mind but most. Imagine taking your daughter to a match sitting next to her and singing it. If when you think about that you decide you wouldn't sing it then it tells you what you need to know, if on the other hand you would still sing it then you're a wrong un

People aren't forced to sing it though if I attended the match accompanied by a minor I'd remain mute throughout the song, some people are trying to make it some sort of a obligation is present in terms of partaking when the song is being sung, you either like it or you don't & you sing it if you like or don't, it's probably 1 of the easiest things in the world to grasp.

[claretonthecoast1882]

People aren't forced to sing it though if I attended the match accompanied by a minor I'd remain mute throughout the song, some people are trying to make it some sort of a obligation is present in terms of partaking when the song is being sung, you either like it or you don't & you sing it if you like or don't, it's probably 1 of the easiest things in the world to grasp.

Right so if you took a child on you wouldn't sing it, but if you went on (highly unlikely I know) without a child you would be happy singing it ? Would the same apply if there was a child sat next to you with their parents ?

The fact you claim you wouldn't sing it if you were sat with a child is about as close as we will get to you admitting it is wrong

[wilks_bfc]

People aren't forced to sing it though if I attended the match accompanied by a minor I'd remain mute throughout the song, some people are trying to make it some sort of a obligation is present in terms of partaking when the song is being sung, you either like it or you don't & you sing it if you like or don't, it's probably 1 of the easiest things in the world to grasp.

Not really true that though is it

We are told countless times that the only stand that sings get any atmosphere going is the CFS

Well maybe the reason for that is that a lot of people don’t feel comfortable sing about female body parts, or people having a heart attack whilst sat in the Family Stand or the Bob Lord with children around them

[Jakubclaret]

Right so if you took a child on you wouldn't sing it, but if you went on (highly unlikely I know) without a child you would be happy singing it ? Would the same apply if there was a child sat next to you with their parents ?

The fact you claim you wouldn't sing it if you were sat with a child is about as close as we will get to you admitting it is wrong

It depends on the circumstances it's a game of football we aren't talking about a tots outing at a wacky warehouse, you seriously need to question if it's appropriate taking children to such events if you deem it that inappropriate.

[claretonthecoast1882]

It depends on the circumstances it's a game of football we aren't talking about a tots outing at a wacky warehouse, you seriously need to question if it's appropriate taking children to such events if you deem it that inappropriate.

No you need to ask why as an adult are you singing about female body parts at a football match

[Zlatan]

When aged about 15 used to think this song was cool and enjoyed singing it.

Then as you get older most people grow up, not all mind but most. Imagine taking your daughter to a match sitting next to her and singing it. If when you think about that you decide you wouldn't sing it then it tells you what you need to know, if on the other hand you would still sing it then you're a wrong un

I don't like that part of the song myself but the majority of the song sounds great if you're amongst it. I do take my 17 year old daughter with me (as well as my 22 year old son) and you may be surprised to know that she sings it at the top of her voice. I have discussed it with her and what she feels about the lyrics and her viewpoint is that she thinks the lyrics "t!ts, Fanny and Claret" are subjective and can be interpreted in anyway you want and "it's just a song dad, oh my god!", but mainly it is a song that she thinks sounds good and rouses the stand and fans.

Some suggested reworking of those offending lyrics would be a good idea (mills, bene and claret...???), trouble is this - how do we get the masses to change what they sing...?

[Jakubclaret]

No you need to ask why as an adult are you singing about female body parts at a football match

It harks back to years of tradition, some people don't want to change or shouldn't have to change that tradition, it's a tradition i don't necessarily agree with but people are entitled to that right.

[Socrates]

This thread.

[BurnleyFC]

Wasn’t there an alternative that used to be sung?

“It’s full of ‘something’, ale and clarets?” or something along those lines?

[bumba]

To be fair most women's teams would sing about the former

Maybe that's why it goes down so well on the turf then!

[NottsClaret]

I don't sing it anymore, because I'm 46. My lad does, although not if he thinks I can hear him, he's 16 and probably thinks it's great. I've taken my daughter to a game where it's been sung but I suspect that sadly she's already quite aware at 14 how weird and pathetic grown men can be.

[Roosterbooster]

It depends on the circumstances it's a game of football we aren't talking about a tots outing at a wacky warehouse, you seriously need to question if it's appropriate taking children to such events if you deem it that inappropriate.

Sad state of affairs when you think we should choose allowing such immature behaviour over promoting young people coming to watch live football

[JR1882]

Most girls I know find it well funny tbf. It’s just a laugh.

Maybe t**ts c**k and clarets so it’s fair to everyone?

[elwaclaret]

I know, but thanks for correcting me. Cardinal sin of not checking autocorrect, my point is now invalid. .

Yeah, there isn’t a sliding scale of morality in this situation. You have most certainly sang our flagship song, I dare say almost all in this thread will have recently. Highly offensive, highly unfair to sing that at a ground and a place with high teenage pregnancy rates, high rates of absent parents, high levels of those in care. So unless you recognise that all of them should be banned, or none of them should you are a hypocrite and we shouldn’t discourse any further.

Cheers!

So because I sang a song in the 1980’s I am a hypocrite. I presume you are still the same person you were in the 1980’s if I am a hypocrite. People regularly threw bananas onto the pitch in the 1980’s, by your logic you still see that as acceptable? The reason I did not want to fully respond is because you are an idiot, but I was trying to avoid pointing it out.

You logic is nonsense; the B’std Rovers song has nothing to do with pregnancy: to suggest it is either displays your utter ignorance or you are trying to put a round block in a square hole…. Either way it is not very bright and I asked you to desist to prevent you making any more of an idiot of yourself with your illogical arguments… but hey ho, you cannot help people who refuse to see common sense.

[BigGaz]

And yet, regardless of the context, ******* is a derogatory term for a parentless child and the ground belts it in unison at out at the top of their lungs. But I don’t see or hear a clamour for it to be stopped. It IS triggering for someone, make no mistake.

There is still stigma alive and well in football regarding a myriad of things. Being ginger, being bald, having long hair, being from places, being fat, being short, being a man, being a woman, being blind, needing glasses, a persons competence to do their job - I could go on and on and on.

All deeply personal and still highly offensive to various people from all walks of life.

At what point do we say stop for all these types of things too? What’s your arbitrary tipping point? If 1 person is offended and upset by it? 10? 100? Do you have some little columns with bad words in them and rank them? Is the tipping point that your wife is offended by the Burnley is wonderful chant but she’s not too bothered about the ******* rovers one? What’s the next persons?

I know various girls that go of various ages and literally none of them are arsed. Perhaps you might ask a wider selection of people than just an echo chamber?

Either people should advocate for people not being in marginalised their entirety, or they should. Personally, I think it should be the former. There is no room for racism or homophobia, this is evidently not the same thing we are talking about here.

[davideyresleftear]

I’m not particularly offended by it but I still think we should get rid, purely because it’s a crap song.

[Rileybobs]

And yet, regardless of the context, ******* is a derogatory term for a parentless child and the ground belts it in unison at out at the top of their lungs. But I don’t see or hear a clamour for it to be stopped. It IS triggering for someone, make no mistake.

There is still stigma alive and well in football regarding a myriad of things. Being ginger, being bald, having long hair, being from places, being fat, being short, being a man, being a woman, being blind, needing glasses, a persons competence to do their job - I could go on and on and on.

All deeply personal and still highly offensive to various people from all walks of life.

At what point do we say stop for all these types of things too? What’s your arbitrary tipping point? If 1 person is offended and upset by it? 10? 100? Do you have some little columns with bad words in them and rank them? Is the tipping point that your wife is offended by the Burnley is wonderful chant but she’s not too bothered about the ******* rovers one? What’s the next persons?

I know various girls that go of various ages and literally none of them are arsed. Perhaps you might ask a wider selection of people than just an echo chamber?

Either people should advocate for people not being in marginalised their entirety, or they should. Personally, I think it should be the former. There is no room for racism or homophobia, this is evidently not the same thing we are talking about here.

So are you insinuating that any chant should be acceptable because some other chants are offensive? It very much seems you’re saying that a chant with the lyrics ‘full of t*ts, fanny and claret’ is perfectly fine because some fans sing a song which includes the word ‘b@stard’.

I mean even if you take the word ‘b@stard’ in its historic definition (which let’s face it it has a much broader use these days) and assume it’s an unacceptable word (I’m not even sure whether it is any more, see the terms b*gger, bloody hell, arse etc), who exactly is this causing offence to? Bear in mind the song in question dehumanises half of the world’s population.

[BigGaz]

Well, luckily for us all this forum is full of strong armed men of action, that will almost certainly do one or more of;

- take direct action, and challenge anyone who sings it
- write a stern missive to the club
- get together with other like minded souls to create some songs and float them at games.

As opposed to standing on an e-soapbox, taking aim at those who sing a song that clearly not many people are that bothered by.

I’ll be sat here on the edge of my seat waiting for updates.

[Rileybobs]

Well, luckily for us all this forum is full of strong armed men of action, that will almost certainly do one or more of;

- take direct action, and challenge anyone who sings it
- write a stern missive to the club
- get together with other like minded souls to create some songs and float them at games.

As opposed to standing on an e-soapbox, taking aim at those who sing a song that clearly not many people are that bothered by.

I’ll be sat here on the edge of my seat waiting for updates.

You could have just answered my questions and we may have been able to have a sensible discussion about this…

[BigGaz]

Bear in mind the song in question dehumanises half of the world’s population.

I think this is the crux of the whole issue tbh.

There’s an assumption that 50% (or 100% of females) of the worlds population feel bothered by it or feel marginalised by it. I’d wager that number is way out, but Of course none of us will ever know.

Has anyone tried asking our female fans what they think before we hold a kangaroo court and decide on their behalf we should pack it in?

I feel quite confident in saying more women would be more likely to be offended that a bunch of blokes on an Internet forum had made a decision on their behalf and reinforcing the idea of the patriarchy state.

[Rileybobs]

I think this is the crux of the whole issue tbh.

There’s an assumption that 50% (or 100% of females) of the worlds population feel bothered by it or feel marginalised by it. I’d wager that number is way out, but Of course none of us will ever know.

Has anyone tried asking our female fans what they think before we hold a kangaroo court and decide on their behalf we should pack it in?

I feel quite confident in saying more women would be more likely to be offended that a bunch of blokes on an Internet forum had made a decision on their behalf and reinforcing the idea of the patriarchy state.

I didn’t say half of the world’s population was offended by the song, I said it dehumanises half of the world’s population - which it does. We all have female relatives so I can’t really grasp how anyone can think that singing that song is acceptable.

I mean, even if the song makes a single female attendee uncomfortable it is reason enough to not sing it?

[BigGaz]

And so we’ve now come full circle back to my point. If the tipping point is just 1 person, then why am I not seeing people advocate to stop things like;

The refs a so n so
The refs blind
You fat so no so

On and on I could go but I won’t.

The answer to that question is that you should sing all of it with your chest, none of it, or be comfortable being a hypocrite.

There really is nothing else. Me? I’m a hypocrite. What are the rest of you?

[Rileybobs]

And so we’ve now come full circle back to my point. If the tipping point is just 1 person, then why am I not seeing people advocate to stop things like;

The refs a so n so
The refs blind
You fat so no so

On and on I could go but I won’t.

The answer to that question is that you should sing all of it with your chest, none of it, or be comfortable being a hypocrite.

There really is nothing else. Me? I’m a hypocrite. What are the rest of you?

If you can’t see the difference between referee banter and misogyny then this is pointless. Unless you can tell the difference but you’re just building a straw man.

As for being a hypocrite. We’re all hypocrites in one way or another. But singing this chant and no nay never does not in any way make anyone a hypocrite.

[BigGaz]

Banter in my eyes is often, and has been used in fact, as a code word for all manner of activities up to and including hate crimes.

Richard Keys once famously attempted to pass off his outrageous on air sexism towards Sian Massey as just banter. She, and others viewed it as sexist bullying.

You might see it as a bit of banter. Some refs, not all, will see it otherwise. And indeed, the FA had to make a campaign (Respect) because of said banter.

One person was the threshold you said. So where do we draw the line on that? Moreover, whom draws the line? You? Me? None of us are right. Both of us are right. Now what?

[Rileybobs]

Banter in my eyes is often, and has been used in fact, as a code word for all manner of activities up to and including hate crimes.

Richard Keys once famously attempted to pass off his outrageous on air sexism towards Sian Massey as just banter. She, and others viewed it as sexist bullying.

You might see it as a bit of banter. Some refs, not all, will see it otherwise. And indeed, the FA had to make a campaign (Respect) because of said banter.

One person was the threshold you said. So where do we draw the line on that? Moreover, whom draws the line? You? Me? None of us are right. Both of us are right. Now what?

Misogyny is not right. It really is that simple. It’s depressing that we’re even having this conversation.

[BigGaz]

Agreed. The problem in this particular instance is that there is far from overwhelming consensus from men and women alike that this actually constitutes misogyny.

[Somethingfishy]

14-year-old kids singing - fair enough, even those it's a naff chant.

Middle-aged blokes bellowing it out - pitiful.

Are you saying 14 year olds can sing it because they are allowed to like t*** and f**** but if you are a middle aged bloke you are past liking it and therefore shouldn't sing it?
Are middle aged blokes past that kind of thing in your eyes?

[Bosscat]

Are you saying 14 year olds can sing it because they are allowed to like t*** and f**** but if you are a middle aged bloke you are past liking it and therefore shouldn't sing it?
Are middle aged blokes past that kind of thing in your eyes?

Apparently we (middle aged men/women that is) shouldn't wear Football shirts when following our team in some peoples eyes on here, who then start giving those of us that do abuse ... then the same people say we shouldn't sing songs that abuse others ...

Well I say if you don't want people to sing songs that are abusive stop abusing us who like to wear a Footy shirt following our team

[Somethingfishy]

And yet, regardless of the context, ******* is a derogatory term for a parentless child and the ground belts it in unison at out at the top of their lungs. But I don’t see or hear a clamour for it to be stopped. It IS triggering for someone, make no mistake.

There is still stigma alive and well in football regarding a myriad of things. Being ginger, being bald, having long hair, being from places, being fat, being short, being a man, being a woman, being blind, needing glasses, a persons competence to do their job - I could go on and on and on.

All deeply personal and still highly offensive to various people from all walks of life.

At what point do we say stop for all these types of things too? What’s your arbitrary tipping point? If 1 person is offended and upset by it? 10? 100? Do you have some little columns with bad words in them and rank them? Is the tipping point that your wife is offended by the Burnley is wonderful chant but she’s not too bothered about the ******* rovers one? What’s the next persons?

I know various girls that go of various ages and literally none of them are arsed. Perhaps you might ask a wider selection of people than just an echo chamber?

Either people should advocate for people not being in marginalised their entirety, or they should. Personally, I think it should be the former. There is no room for racism or homophobia, this is evidently not the same thing we are talking about here.

This. Spot on.

It is a naff chant though.

[turbo5]

Thought I was reading some sort of Watchdog programme (now part of the One show) where all the Karen's write in because something has upset them on the TV.
I agree the song might not be politically correct but where do we stop with this wokeism ? no standing, no swearing, no winding up away fans, no middle aged men in football shirts. Only songs approved by the righteous. I keep expecting John Hurt to turn up 1984 style telling us what we can and can't do and how we must think.
If people are concerned that their children are going to be scared after listening to such songs, they won't be savvy in the real world when they get older and be subjected to far more vile language and none PC situations. My kids have heard it and they are told what's sung on football matches stays on football matches. (surprisingly they don't need counselling or extensive behavioural therapy after being subject to verses of t~ts f@nny and clarets
It's a football match, and it still attracts laddish behaviour its part of its DNA and attracts young fans, let them enjoy themselves otherwise it will turn into some sort of sterile American baseball game type atmosphere. A large selection of fans enjoy this sort of banter otherwise it wouldn't be sung in such high numbers.
If people don't like it so be it, there are lots of things in life that I don't like. (vaping on the game, beer f@rts all the game ) I just ignore it or avoid it. I don't preach wanting my own utopian society especially at football matches.

[daveisaclaret]

Well I say if you don't want people to sing songs that are abusive stop abusing us who like to wear a Footy shirt following our team

I'm singing an embarrassing song at the football cos someone was mean to me online

[Bosscat]

I'm singing an embarrassing song at the football cos someone was mean to me online

You too huh Dave

[Bertie2015]

And yet, regardless of the context, ******* is a derogatory term for a parentless child and the ground belts it in unison at out at the top of their lungs. But I don’t see or hear a clamour for it to be stopped. It IS triggering for someone, make no mistake.

There is still stigma alive and well in football regarding a myriad of things. Being ginger, being bald, having long hair, being from places, being fat, being short, being a man, being a woman, being blind, needing glasses, a persons competence to do their job - I could go on and on and on.

All deeply personal and still highly offensive to various people from all walks of life.

At what point do we say stop for all these types of things too? What’s your arbitrary tipping point? If 1 person is offended and upset by it? 10? 100? Do you have some little columns with bad words in them and rank them? Is the tipping point that your wife is offended by the Burnley is wonderful chant but she’s not too bothered about the ******* rovers one? What’s the next persons?

I know various girls that go of various ages and literally none of them are arsed. Perhaps you might ask a wider selection of people than just an echo chamber?

Either people should advocate for people not being in marginalised their entirety, or they should. Personally, I think it should be the former. There is no room for racism or homophobia, this is evidently not the same thing we are talking about here.

Just logging on for the first time years to agree with this post

[Somethingfishy]

I'm singing an embarrassing song (in my opinion) at the football cos someone was mean to me online

Corrected it for you Dave

[Claretitus]

Cliff Richard had a hit in the 80’s - Tits and Fanny, How We Don’t Talk Anymore……………………
I’ll get me coat

[Claretitus]

Cliff Richard had a hit in the 80’s - Tits and Fanny, How We Don’t Talk Anymore……………………
I’ll get me coat

[Gaia]

Guidance notes on sexist chanting to assist with clubs’ steward briefing

Common sexist chants, terms of abuse and gestures to look out for. How comfortable would you be if these words were shouted at you?

(nb might not be applicable question if stewards are mostly male?)

Get your tits out for the lads
Get back in the kitchen
The goalie wants to see your tits
Bitch
Slag
Slut
Whore
Ho
Oh [Club/location] (oh [Club/location]),
Is wonderful (is wonderful),
Oh [Club/location] is wonderful,
It’s full of tits, fanny and [club],
Oh [Club/location] is wonderful.
https://www.womeninfootball.co.uk/resou ... notes.html

[BigGaz]

You see, that’s absolutely fine and I’m more than happy to change my stance on what to sing and what not to sing as new information comes to light. That’s how it should work for everyone.

What should happen is that someone should take it on theirselves to communicate that link to the club and then the club should communicate with a cohort of females, or those identifying themselves as female, and sound out what they like and don’t like to hear, then act based off that.

Whilst they’re at it, they should do the same for various other songs that marginalise people and if there is a common consensus that they’re offensive then they should stop.

Man Utd ended up doing just that for a song their fans came up with regarding Romelu Lukaku being a Belgian scoring genius with a large appendage, and they stopped singing it as a result.

What I’m not having is a small demographic of fans attempting to self police themselves with a sliding scale of what they will and won’t tolerate when there simply isn’t a scale.

The inability to spot that there really is no difference in things like this and other such demographics is the key here.

The conversation I had with the chap yesterday re refs and and ‘banter’, when refs have packed it in, felt offended, felt unsafe, upset, threatened and actually physically assaulted because of this ‘banter’ being a case in point.

[4midable]

5000 in full voice of this song
Fantastic

[Wembley09]

I remember being taken to the Turf as young lad in the mid 90's to early 00's and not being bothered by this chant, to be honest I didn't fully understand it till I got older.
But I didn't see any adults worrying about the kiddies then.

I had a good upbringing but I was never bubble wrapped about stuff at football.. football was just football, almost all chants could be banned for upsetting somebody.

[Rileybobs]

I remember being taken to the Turf as young lad in the mid 90's to early 00's and not being bothered by this chant, to be honest I didn't fully understand it till I got older.
But I didn't see any adults worrying about the kiddies then.

I had a good upbringing but I was never bubble wrapped about stuff at football.. football was just football, almost all chants could be banned for upsetting somebody.

JFW, it’s not about bubble wrapping kids, it’s about treating women with a bit of respect.

[Wembley09]

A few posters through out this thread of said they don't sing this if they have their kids with them, or now they are older.

But yeah, it's always been disrespectful just like it was 30 years ago. Now because of all this women and equal rights, it's now time for people to complain about this song? Those who disliked it could have been complaining years ago and not jumping on the current bandwagon.

Like others have said the word B*stard is disrespectful to certiain folk.

[Bobzuruncle]

when my kids were very young I convinced them it was beer, fanta and claret. That seemed to worked for a few years but I still sing it now cos it makes it me titter

[AmbleClaret]

I'm old enough to remember certain parts of the Longside chanting "We're Nazis from the Turf". Wouldn't want to hear that again,so maybe it's time to drop this other outdated and irrelevant chant too now.

[IanMcL]

I could bever understand what was being sung anyway. Just used to do the wonderful bits!