Just for a little perspective I thought I'd share the opinion of a Blackburn fan at work. I came in this morning, like everyone,just a little disappointed about the result last night but still very optimistic. He hasn't watched a lot of us and said that we were excellent and dominant. It cheered me right up.

I think because at times we've looked unplayable, performances and results like last night can be disheartening but this team will only get better and I'm excited to see us develop. The standard of football we've seen this team capable of producing can make solid performances like last night seem like a negative when in reality, and from a fresh pair of eyes (the resident Rovers fan) performances are solid and we have serious potential.

I hope this makes sense. It did to me.

UTC

Good post. A Stoke supporting mate couldn’t believe the game finished 1-1 and added they ‘didn’t touch the ball for the last 40 minutes’. He says we are a good side and look ‘top 6 certs’.

I think its also true, that while opposition fans can see all the positives, we can see the negatives.
Results like last night can happen to any team, but watching us every week its easier for us to pick up the flaws than the opposition.

Once we manage a couple of 1-0 wins the belief that we can win 1-0 will see us right.
We've been better than every team we've played, and I'm including WBA in that as a proper ref would have seen us 2-0 against 10 men. Once we get the confidence that we can win games 1-0 we'll be better than fine.

I’ve posted similar on another thread. The only ones doubting our ability are Burnley fans. It’s actually quite funny. Most fans would be delighted to be 5th with only one loss in 12 and nine games unbeaten.

houseboy wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:23 am

I’ve posted similar on another thread. The only ones doubting our ability are Burnley fans. It’s actually quite funny. Most fans would be delighted to be 5th with only one loss in 12 and nine games unbeaten.

Walking back to the car last night we were all agreed ... its frustrating but... 12 games in and only one loss ... a new manager, 16 new players, if we start burying the chances created then we could and should be right up there.

This wasn't just our little group but the opinion of most of those also heading away from the game.

The views of a few on here are a tad extreme to say the least (and a lot of those were the same voices decrying the previous regime too ... some folks are never satisfied ).

Its a marathon not a sprint ... its only a quarter of the season & we have the 2nd highest goals for tally in the league ... only lost one game so far all season ... turn these draws into wins and watch us fly

The fact we are where we are after wholesale changes both playing and backroom staff, it's absolutely amazing. You cannot complain. We've only played 12 games. Some of these players never even met until 3 months ago.

League Championship table after close of play on 23 October 2015
Pos Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Brighton 12 8 4 0 18 10 8 28
2 Birmingham 12 7 3 2 19 11 8 24
3 Reading 12 6 4 2 18 8 10 22
4 Hull City 12 6 4 2 17 8 9 22
5 Burnley 12 6 4 2 17 12 5 22

Not a huge difference to our present situation.

What was it in 2013/14 at this stage?

This is the only perspective we should be looking at

No it isn't.

Depends on your outlook in life, I suppose.

Winstonswhite wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:11 pm

What was it in 2013/14 at this stage?

Some good comments above, I`m certainly in the glass half full camp. Loving the new style of playing football, just needs a bit of tweaking here and there possibly?
Still gutted about the late equaliser last night and almost feels like a loss

Comparing 2013/14, 2015/16 and this season at this stage.
This season average 67% possession with 154 attempts, 59 on target and scored 19 goals. We have limited the opposition to 122 attempts with 47 on target and they have scored 11 goals.
In 2015/16 we averaged 49% possession and had 143 attempts with 56 on target and scored 17 goals, our opposition had 166 attempts with 51 on target and had scored 12 goals.
In 2013/14 we averaged 49%possession and had 139 attempts with 64 on target and scored 22 goals, our opposition had 127 attempts with 37 on target and had scored 7 goals.

We obviously need to make more of our possession and also our accuracy!

clitheroeclaret3 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:32 pm

Some good comments above, I`m certainly in the glass half full camp. Loving the new style of playing football, just needs a bit of tweaking here and there possibly?
Still gutted about the late equaliser last night and almost feels like a loss

Basically what most were saying last night cc

for me a lot is in the timing, if we'd have gone in at half time losing 0 - 1, then come back and scored for a draw a lot of us we be much happier than when that equalizer comes in the final 5/10 minutes of us leading. Score/outcome is the same but it's a mental thing that makes us feel despondent, very much as said, even though it's a draw and a point, it feels like a loss and takes on much more emphasis than an early goal against.

I said this on the match thread.... all the positives being pointed out are true, but it can equally be true that our naivety needs to be addressed as a priority.
- we have taken a lead in 75% of our games
- we have only won 33% of them
- we have given up points in more than half of winning games
- we average two-thirds of the game with the ball in possession

In other words it's in our control and we're not controlling it. so while anyone reasonable must be impressed with what the players and staff have achieved they've actually indicated a statistically-viable performance level, so let's stop basking in the miracle and let's start measuring in terms of the established capability of performance.

To hide behind the achievement is to shield the capability

We're not controlling it because we're not being allowed to. After missing one or two reasonable chances per game, we're tending not to be able to hold on for the win as the opposition are coming back at us, taking us on and getting a point, deserved or otherwise.
I was thinking about this on the three hour drive home last night, the M6 shut at J19 heading South, and concluded that we're not actually good enough at the moment to win these games by withstanding pressure, much of it self-inflicted.
Don't get me wrong, we play some cracking football, Cork is a maestro, for example, and I'd much rather be in this position of playing well and rueing the points that got away rather than, if we were struggling, ruminating how crap we are.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:24 pm

Walking back to the car last night we were all agreed ... its frustrating but... 12 games in and only one loss ... a new manager, 16 new players, if we start burying the chances created then we could and should be right up there.

This wasn't just our little group but the opinion of most of those also heading away from the game.

The views of a few on here are a tad extreme to say the least (and a lot of those were the same voices decrying the previous regime too ... some folks are never satisfied ).

Its a marathon not a sprint ... its only a quarter of the season & we have the 2nd highest goals for tally in the league ... only lost one game so far all season ... turn these draws into wins and watch us fly

Good post Boss. You know despite the irritating last minute goals we keep conceding we are actually doing really rather well. A Sheff Utd mate of mine at work thinks there are 3 teams who are vying for top two, us and Norwich along with Utd. He also thinks we are better than Norwich and admits to being fearful when we play them.
To all the moaners and doubters and statisticians who think they are football managers I would ask what exactly do you want from a team with one defeat at this stage who have frankly never even looked like losing a game at any point, even the one we did lose?

The perspective should be we've dropped down a division sold the cream & to a certain degree inadequately invested & experimented way too much & way too fast for the job in hand that said we aren't doing too bad & probably look fair game for a playoff slot when plenty feared midtable some signs remain positive if we can rectify the soft belly.

Glass hall full camp we see posters highlighting these stats.

1 defeat in 12 (13 if you include the cup tie)
Still unbeaten at home.
5th in the table.
3rd top scorers in the division.
9 different scorers in only 12 games.
Dominating possession in virtually every game.
Scored in 11 of our 12 league games.
Only conceded 12 in 12 games.
Only conceded more than once in a game against Blackpool.
Been in the PO places pretty much the whole season.

Glass half empty camp we see posters highlighting these stats.

Only 4 wins in 12.
Shipped lots of late equalisers to deny us victories
Taken the lead in 9 games yet only gone to win 4 of them.
Taken the lead in our last 8 games yet only claimed victory in of them.
2 clean sheets in 12.
Scored plenty but that stat masked by the 8 goals in the Blackpool and Wigan games.
Not yet beaten one of the heavyweight contenders in this division, mind you that would be difficult considering we haven't yet met any of them.
Struggled to beat teams we really should be putting to the sword.
For all our possession we struggle to create a lot of chances in matches.

My view is we are doing about as well as can reasonably be expected following the huge changes during the summer, however there is plenty of areas where we can and will need to show vast improvements if we're to last the course over the long winter months.

The thing about Stoke fans watching the Stoke match, or any other fans watching us play their team, is that they see that one game and say "Burnley were excellent and Stoke absolutely stole a point" and they're right. They might feel it's a one off and that most weeks we'll play like that and pump the opposition, but as Clarets fans we're seeing it almost every game. Domination being undone by one defensive slip.

This talk of top 6 is a big danger to complacency setting in.

The squad is extremely good for this league and if determined to win, then they will. Unfortunately, we seem 'ok' with 'results overall'. That is not a league winning mentality. Joseph had it right when we won the league. He had assessed the squad and knew it could win. That's what is needed now. Then all will be well.

442 works well in the Championship, as the defences are vulnerable at times. Whilst we don't need 442, men actually in the box is an essential factor. We are lacking there. The 'strikers' have been given less striking and more linking. That won't win the league.

We can't seem to avoid dropping points from winning positions when playing three at the back
We seem to struggle to score more than one goal per game when playing one up front
We have yet to play any of the other sides in the current top eight
Talk of top six, based on over a quarter of season games played, is not so complacent but a reality check
This current squad is playing pretty much as good as it can, unless someone can point out the players who are suddenly going to perform to a much higher level than so far - a fit Twine could make some difference but we can't hang our hat on that

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:02 pm

....This current squad is playing pretty much as good as it can, unless someone can point out the players who are suddenly going to perform to a much higher level than so far - a fit Twine could make some difference but we can't hang our hat on that

Im not sure what you’re basing this on. A significant part of our squad is young, new to the club, and / or new to the division. There’s nothing to suggest that they aren’t a fair distance below their potential at this stage (with a few obvious exceptions like Jay, Barnes and Cork).

Of course, there’s also nothing to suggest that they will ever reach their potential either but I, for one, expect this team to continue to improve as they gel and learn each others’ games, and it seems from the interviews I’ve seen that VK agrees.

Look, we’ve been shipping goals in the last few minutes of the game each time.
What we need to do more when we are only leading by one goal during the last 10 mins is:
1. Shut up shop, which means some defensive moves. K don’t think the fans will care after watching over 80 mins of free flowing football
2. Slow down the game more by playing smart and making individual substitutions

Payment details to be provided later Vinny

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:02 pm

We can't seem to avoid dropping points from winning positions when playing three at the back
We seem to struggle to score more than one goal per game when playing one up front
We have yet to play any of the other sides in the current top eight
Talk of top six, based on over a quarter of season games played, is not so complacent but a reality check
This current squad is playing pretty much as good as it can, unless someone can point out the players who are suddenly going to perform to a much higher level than so far - a fit Twine could make some difference but we can't hang our hat on that

Aside from Norwich and maybe Sheffield United I wouldn't imagine the other teams at the top end of the Championship have too much quality. Perhaps they can lump it into the box with a bit more accuracy but that’s about it. Our downfall , if we don't go up, will most likely be our defensive frailties.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:27 pm

Aside from Norwich and maybe Sheffield United I wouldn't imagine the other teams at the top end of the Championship have too much quality. Perhaps they can lump it into the box with a bit more accuracy but that’s about it. Our downfall , if we don't go up, will most likely be our defensive frailties.

Correct. The annoying thing is that VK has the answer to most of our frailties using players already at our club. Charlie at left back and Matt Lowton at right back would be a damned good start.

Before the season started I said I'd be delighted just to stay in this division with all the upheaval we have seen !
I didn't think all the new players would have bedded in as quickly as they have, we are playing some nice football, I'm sure things can only improve with time. UTC.

houseboy wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:23 am

I’ve posted similar on another thread. The only ones doubting our ability are Burnley fans. It’s actually quite funny. Most fans would be delighted to be 5th with only one loss in 12 and nine games unbeaten.

It certainly won't be enough to guarantee automatic & won't be enough to even guarantee playoffs if we don't stop conceding soft late goals, we've often had debates & each time I've been proven right & you proven wrong it pains me to say.especially last season when things were looking grim & ultimately proved to be that you was right to the point that it wasn't impossible back then at that point but to see things forward takes a special knack.

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:02 pm

This current squad is playing pretty much as good as it can, unless someone can point out the players who are suddenly going to perform to a much higher level than so far - a fit Twine could make some difference but we can't hang our hat on that

I can’t see that. There’s quite a few of this squad who have yet to be given their chance. That will happen so let’s wait a little longer before accepting that improvement cannot happen. Really all to play for and everything points to us getting stronger as the season progresses

65% - 70% Possession? So what? Sideways and backwards at the back while the opposition stand and watch? It might look pretty but is starting to become a little boring.