We would appear to be, great lifestyle choice why work when you get everything you need courtesy of mugs who work every hour God sends and are taxed to the hilt.

fanzone wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:09 am

But National minimum wage will rise by less.

Are we literally the only country in the world that doesn't reward the working people.

If you think working people don’t claim benefits you’re living on a different planet.

2.5 million unable to work due to long term sickness

Lot of them are just waiting for their issues to be fixed, but can't because of the issues with the NHS

Are you sure its the unemployed that are the problem here?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... 2022-11-10

fanzone wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:09 am

But National minimum wage will rise by less.

Are we literally the only country in the world that doesn't reward the working people.

Minimum wage going up by 9.5%

martin_p wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:39 am

If you think working people don’t claim benefits you’re living on a different planet.

Try getting help as a single man/woman on a low income with a mortgage as opposed to a family renting when the handstands cartwheels & somersaults come out in full force.

If being unemployed is such a good do, I'm surprised more of you don't give it a whirl.

Focusing your anger at the wrong people and groups. Tax avoidance/evasion by large multinationals costs far, far more than all benefits (for unemployed, sick, working, retired) put together. Tax the likes of Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc. properly and stop the rich squirrelling wealth off shore and we might get somewhere.

Look up the term "crabs in a bucket".

Benefits up for the vulnerable in line with inflation, minimum wage nearly as much for the low paid, most likely to be paid for by tax rises on the wealthy. Basically the opposite of Trusseconomics. Not sure there’s much to complain about or that anyone can say Sunak hasn’t built a track record of doing the right thing given this, furlough, energy support, etc.

Personally think we’ll suffer a longer and deeper recession as a result but that’s a price worth paying.

MancunianClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:07 am

Tax avoidance/evasion by large multinationals costs almost as much as benefits (for unemployed, sick, working) put together.

Correction as unable to edit*

fanzone wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:09 am

Are we literally the only country in the world that doesn't reward the working people.

What does this even mean ?

Reward them with what ?
A certificate ?
A box of Quality Street ?

What is it that you want the government to reward to the tens of millions working people in the Uk ?
And please share with us all how “literally” every other country in the world except this one rewards it’s workers.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:09 am

Not sure there’s much to complain about or that anyone can say Sunak hasn’t built a track record of doing the right thing given this, furlough, energy support, etc

Sunak has a level of pragmatism that's simply evaded the dim-witted bulk of his party.

He's not about to genuinely penalise the massive multi-national sponsors of Tory party, but has the sense to understand that a few coppers in the hands of the paupers find their way back into the economy by the end of the week....much faster than with higher income brackets.

2.5 million unable to work due to long-term sickness

The amount of people I know on long-term sick, who have never officially worked but are well enough for side hustles is absolutely mindblowing... A tiny fraction of that 2.5m will be genuinely too sick to work... You'd have to be very naive to believe that the whole 2.5m is genuine...

Also, regarding your comment "Lot of them are just waiting for their issues to be fixed, but can't because of the issues with the NHS"... Do you have the stats to prove that or have you just made that up?

Supermarkets brag about their basket of shopping being a bargain price of 80 to 100 pounds.

What's the single person benefit in this country £74 a week? So say it goes up to 84. Not much to survive on is it?

If you want the economy boosting, give the money to those who will spend it every week. Not to those who will bank it or take 3 holidays abroad a year, spending the money there.

BigChaCha wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:44 am

The amount of people I know on long-term sick, who have never officially worked but are well enough for side hustles is absolutely mindblowing... A tiny fraction of that 2.5m will be genuinely too sick to work... You'd have to be very naive to believe that the whole 2.5m is genuine...

Also, regarding your comment "Lot of them are just waiting for their issues to be fixed, but can't because of the issues with the NHS"... Do you have the stats to prove that or have you just made that up?

Do you have the stats to back up what you’re saying?

ClaretAndJew wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:48 am

Do you have the stats to back up what you’re saying?

Does he f*ck

What do you need stats for when you have that in built prejudice ? Evidence will be chatting with like minded blokes in the boozer.

BigChaCha wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:44 am

The amount of people I know on long-term sick, who have never officially worked but are well enough for side hustles is absolutely mindblowing... A tiny fraction of that 2.5m will be genuinely too sick to work... You'd have to be very naive to believe that the whole 2.5m is genuine...

Also, regarding your comment "Lot of them are just waiting for their issues to be fixed, but can't because of the issues with the NHS"... Do you have the stats to prove that or have you just made that up?

Yup, but what is the point with a poster who in the same post claims that he knows loads of people on long term sick that are taking the p**s?

I mean, come on mate!

Getting the 'just about breaking even' working class to keep grafting 40 hours a week - while the top 0.5% cream off all the profits and luxury for themselves - and brainwashing them into turning their fury on the poor sods a rung lower on the ladder is a trick as old as time but it never fails.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:39 am

If you think working people don’t claim benefits you’re living on a different planet.

They do and its a national disgrace that working people are having to use Food Banks. BUT thats not the point is it? Did you get the point at all?

NottsClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:08 am

Getting the 'just about breaking even' working class to keep grafting 40 hours a week - while the top 0.5% cream off all the profits and luxury for themselves - and brainwashing them into turning their fury on the poor sods a rung lower on the ladder is a trick as old as time but it never fails.

The top 5%? Iys actually laugahable is that.

So we tax relatively low paid working people. That tax goes to the government. The government then uses that revenue to give to poorly paid workers as in work benefits, effectively to subsidise the poor wages paid by exploitative employers who've become reliant on cheap foreign labour. Madness.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:11 am

They do and its a national disgrace that working people are having to use Food Banks. BUT thats not the point is it? Did you get the point at all?

Oh I definitely got the point.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:14 am

The top 5%? Iys actually laugahable is that.

Percentages not your strong point?

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:58 am

If being unemployed is such a good do, I'm surprised more of you don't give it a whirl.

More homeowners might do if the threat of repossession wasn't tangible!

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:25 am

Percentages not your strong point?

OOps 0.5% Thats better. Yes its shocking that people like Jim Ratcliffe or James Dyon should 'CREAM OFF' from their own companies that they built up probably from nothing. Now if its massive wages in the Public Sector or the maybe the Utilities then that is a different matter, but they wont be in the top 5% - and yes thats right.

BigChaCha wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:44 am

The amount of people I know on long-term sick, who have never officially worked but are well enough for side hustles is absolutely mindblowing... A tiny fraction of that 2.5m will be genuinely too sick to work... You'd have to be very naive to believe that the whole 2.5m is genuine...

Also, regarding your comment "Lot of them are just waiting for their issues to be fixed, but can't because of the issues with the NHS"... Do you have the stats to prove that or have you just made that up?

Any stats to back up your claim that 'a tiny fraction of that 2.5m will be genuinely too sick to work'? Or are you not making yourself accountable to the same standards you expect from another poster?

Big Vinny K wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:52 am

...What do you need stats for when you have that in built prejudice ? Evidence will be chatting with like minded blokes in the boozer.

Those pronouncements could be applied equally to both sides of pretty much any disagreement ever; Including this one.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:45 am

Supermarkets brag about their basket of shopping being a bargain price of 80 to 100 pounds.

What's the single person benefit in this country £74 a week? So say it goes up to 84. Not much to survive on is it?

If you want the economy boosting, give the money to those who will spend it every week. Not to those who will bank it or take 3 holidays abroad a year, spending the money there.

The shopping baskets at £100 are for more than one person, so the example is not the best

fanzone wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:09 am

But National minimum wage will rise by less.

Are we literally the only country in the world that doesn't reward the working people.

You'll have a shock when you realise what the rest of western Europe and the Scandanavian countries pay out in unemployment benefits. 60% (67% if you have children) of previous salary in Germany is just one example.

How civilised countries should operate if you ask me.

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:34 am

Those pronouncements could be applied equally to both sides of pretty much any disagreement ever; Including this one.

Not really.
Logic and common sense would assume that most people on long term sick are long term sick.
It would also assume that the authorities would not pay out billions of pounds every year to people if they had not provided evidence of their long terms sickness.
It would also assume that doctors would not give out a diagnosis of long term sickness to people who were not really sick.

This is not a Tory v Labour type argument. It’s somebody alleging that irrespective of who is in charge most people claiming to be long term sick and receiving benefits for this are lying. That’s most people he said - not the small percentage that we all know will manage to scam nearly any benefits system in any country.

So if you are going to make a wild statement like this which goes against all logic and common sense then yes statistical evidence would be useful.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:39 am

If you think working people don’t claim benefits you’re living on a different planet.

It would be better to disband these benefits for working people and to simply tax them less.

Let the working people keep more of their own wages.

The system of taxing people only to make them claim money back from the state in the form of “working tax credits” is wasteful lunacy. Many countries have welfare systems but few are stupid enough to do this.

Ideally the lower tax thresholds for income tax and national insurance should kick in only above the national minimum wage.

Not that I oppose helping people in need more but those claiming 0 benefits in the sort of category earning under 60K a year or so are getting absolutely f***** once again. Everything will rise once bar wages putting a huge squeeze on everyone.

The real terms pay cut for the average worker over the last decade or so is staggering.

A 50K a year salary these days isn’t even much to shake a stick at. I don’t know how people cope.

BigChaCha wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:44 am

Also, regarding your comment "Lot of them are just waiting for their issues to be fixed, but can't because of the issues with the NHS"... Do you have the stats to prove that or have you just made that up?

It's probably impossible to calculate how many people are on benefits because they are awaiting NHS treatment, but with over 7 million now on waiting lists, I'm sure it's entirely reasonable to suggest that there are "a lot" of people on benefits because they need surgery or other medical interventions. We don't need official stats to actually prove that.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:01 am

It would be better to disband these benefits for working people and to simply tax them less.

Let the working people keep more of their own wages.

The system of taxing people only to make them claim money back from the state in the form of “working tax credits” is wasteful lunacy. Many countries have welfare systems but few are stupid enough to do this.

Ideally the lower tax thresholds for income tax and national insurance should kick in only above the national minimum wage.

That would cost significantly more than it saves so it’s not a measure any government would likely pick up

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:58 am

If being unemployed is such a good do, I'm surprised more of you don't give it a whirl.

Still plenty of jobs out there but perhaps it interferes with social life or working Saturdays or nights get some other mug to get the job,pay tax and shout I'm all right Jack, you lot work longer hours,pay more tax keep me in clover. Thank goodness we do have immigration to do the jobs our pandered to deliberately unemployed and unemployable wasters don't want.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... ctober2022

Before criicising the unemployed it's worth considering why the benefits system (and unemployment) were created.

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:02 am

Still plenty of jobs out there but perhaps it interferes with social life or working Saturdays or nights get some other mug to get the job,pay tax and shout I'm all right Jack, you lot work longer hours,pay more tax keep me in clover. Thank goodness we do have immigration to do the jobs our pandered to deliberately unemployed and unemployable wasters don't want.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... ctober2022

It's gone 11am on a Monday.
Shouldn't you be at work?

.....and not mooching round on message boards.?

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:07 am

It's gone 11am on a Monday.
Shouldn't you be at work?

.....and not mooching round on message boards.?

Right back at ya...to quote the yoof.
Self employed I can have a break.....if that's OK with you ?

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:07 am

It's gone 11am on a Monday.
Shouldn't you be at work?

.....and not mooching round on message boards.?

Last time I looked it was Tuesday

Steve1956 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:27 am

Last time I looked it was Tuesday

perhaps FB47 lives over the international dateline

No one should be posting on here or doing anything other than grafting from 7am - 6pm EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WORKING WEEK UNTIL YOU ARE BROKEN.

Sunak & the UK are not the only country in Europe who subsidised workers/business during Covid, he & the government are the only country who allowed the rich individuals & companies to get away with billions in fraudulent claims. Just for example Spain where i live paid between 88% & 92% of peoples wages with the better paid being at the 88% end for 2 years. It was based on tax receipts for both individuals & companies.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:05 am

Before criicising the unemployed it's worth considering why the benefits system (and unemployment) were created.

This is a very very fair point. However, it seems that for a not insignificant number, what was always supposed to be a safety net , has become a career choice.

1882Clarets1882 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:21 am

So we tax relatively low paid working people. That tax goes to the government. The government then uses that revenue to give to poorly paid workers as in work benefits, effectively to subsidise the poor wages paid by exploitative employers who've become reliant on cheap foreign labour. Madness.

The working family tax credit system, introduced by Gordon Brown, together with Labour's abject failure to place any restrictions on migration from the accession Countries in 2004, leading to a flood of cheap Labour. Apart from Ireland & Sweden, the UK was the only Country not to place " transition controls " on migrant numbers from Eastern Europe ...

When Romania joined in 2007, this led to a further influx, largely from the criminal fraternity. Between 2008 - 2013, 28,000 different Romanians were arrested in the United Kingdom, at which time only 56,000 Romanians were officially living here.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:31 am

perhaps FB47 lives over the international dateline

Scillies Boss

Probably 30 years behind everybody else..which has its drawbacks...and advantages

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:50 am

Scillies Boss

Probably 30 years behind everybody else..which has its drawbacks...and advantages

Bet its lovely there

On my bucket list

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:51 am

Bet its lovely there

On my bucket list

Pint waiting for you if you make it.Lancs...and more clarets than you'd expect in a total population that wouldn't fill the home section of the CFS.

fatboy47 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:50 am

Scillies Boss

Probably 30 years behind everybody else..which has its drawbacks...and advantages

Fantastic place FB47 been twice to Tresco 1st time flew into St Marys from Lands End and this year on a Fred Olsen Cruise ... we love it

martin_p wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:15 am

That would cost significantly more than it saves so it’s not a measure any government would likely pick up

It would be costly but it's what we should be aiming for as a society. Low earners should be able to keep more of their own money.

There are very obvious reasons why this is a good idea but it would also provide a much bigger incentive to job seekers to choose work over benefits. Too many decide that lower paid jobs aren't worth the effort and the awful truth is that very often, they've got their sums perfectly correct.

ClaretAndJew wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:33 am

No one should be posting on here or doing anything other than grafting from 7am - 6pm EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WORKING WEEK UNTIL YOU ARE BROKEN.

Lol. Said nobody ever.

Talking as someone who worked from 1972 to 2019, retiring at 69, and missing about a total of 20 days work in those 27 years, through genuine illness, let me tell you this country has a significant amount of people who have no intention of working. How often are we going to a cafe, restaurant, pub or retail store to see these businesses are seriously under staffed.Sadly the inability to be able to visit your GP during the height of Covid will have seriously impacted on people's ability to get the treatment they would have been afforded prior to Covid. The cases of genuine mental issues will be at a record high too. Cancer cases that were not treated at an early stage may have moved to untreatable. I know many elderly people who just did not trouble their local surgeries despite not being well.We have yet to see the full impact of Covid on people's health as well as on the NHS