• The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:08 pm**

Hi gang, hoping to get leads for further research. I am researching the effects of the American Civil War in Lancashire known as the distress or famine), from poetry of the time to active servicemen who emigrated to join up and thought It would be nice if I can include something of interest or relevance to find some hidden gems of local knowledge that I can burrow into. Things like the Blackburn Union Volunteer (published account) or the Bacup Confederate volunteer (Kepi at Bacup museum).

The paper will a to show the diversity of opinion at the time not a witch-hunt or taking sides… it will be explaining the attitudes of many involved centred around many other reasons besides the usual support or opposition to Southern slavery, although such supports were also highly relevant and will be included in the study.

Be nice to hear your stories.

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:54 pm**

Wit’s the matter? -wit’s the matter?
Wit’s these folks, all staning raond?
Hez ther sum’uddy bin feightin,
Ur ther’s sum’uddy kill’d ur draown’d?

Oh! aw know, naoh, -aw’d forgettun -
Welly six-months, fur ur nar,
Here aor parlyment’s bin meetin,
Bizzy settling o’ th’ war.

Chaps wi’ noddles full o’ learning;
Yes’s ut’s brasting wi’ their wit,
Here yo’ll find, boath neet un morning,
Gie’ing the world the benefit.

This mon threopin, all for Davis,
T’other Lincoln, fair ur faol, -
Tongs un poker, whang, bang at it,
Spit un sputter, fern and grovel.

Well! chaps, hurry up the bizness,
(Let’s hoap th’ end on’t’s getting nar)
Spout away at Nuttall’s corner,
Finish th’ job, un settle th’ war.
- William Cunliffe (Burnley Advertiser)

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:17 pm**

You are probably already aware of this BBC episode from ‘In our time’ which looked at this very issue. If not, I suggest it is a useful analysis of the issues and the accompanying reading lists are usually excellent.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05tly3f

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:24 pm**

The Cotton Famine Road above Rochdale May be worth investigating. The unemployed created this by installing setts high on the moors during the American Civil War. In this way Lancashire textile workers took a stand against slavery.

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:30 pm**

Nations, like men, too oft are given to roam,
And seek abroad what they could find at home.
They send their armies out on ventures far;
Their halt -is havoc, and theirjourney war;
Destruction’s traders! Who, to start their trade,
Steal, for the bayonet, metal and spade.
The interest’s - blood; the capital is life;
The debt -is vengeance; the instalment -strife;
The payment’s- death; and wounds the receipt;
The market’s battle; and the whole - a cheat.
- William Billington (Blackburn Times)

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:34 pm**

CleggHall wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:24 pm
The Cotton Famine Road above Rochdale May be worth investigating. The unemployed created this by installing setts high on the moors during the American Civil War. In this way Lancashire textile workers took a stand against slavery.

Yes thanks for that…. Owd Betts, a famine road built by Lancashire workers for famine relief, on the same principal of the more famous Irish famine roads. That will certainly figure, exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to start filtering through for investigation. Brill

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:03 pm**

abdulp wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:17 pm
You are probably already aware of this BBC episode from ‘In our time’ which looked at this very issue. If not, I suggest it is a useful analysis of the issues and the accompanying reading lists are usually excellent.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05tly3f

Sorry, I meant to reply but was mid Billington poem. I have seen that, but it will certainly be revisited, thanks for that I can certainly dig from that. I do sometimes miss things like this as I dive into primary and academic sources, thanks again

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:58 pm**

Probably stating the obvious, but you've checked the British Newspaper Archive I presume?

My great-grandfather worked in the mills at that time, but as he is long gone that isn't much use. Literally the only thing I remember my father (also no longer with us) about his grandfather, was that they got two days off per year (Christmas Day and Boxing Day) but they didn't feel particularly badly off because that's all everybody got. Apart from the mill owners, of course!

Not really relevant, sorry!

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:11 am**

My great great grandfather was a loom mechanic. He moved to Bradford some time between 1861 and 1865 to work in the Wool mills before returning to Burnley after a few years (his younger brother played for Burnley in 1883/84). My great grandfather was born in Bradford as a result. My great great great grandfather had originally worked as a canal boat painter in Finsley Gate but by the 1860s he was a publican and , I think, treasurer of the local Oddfellows. From what I can tell he was declared bankrupt before 1865 because of the economic conditions in the town and returned to painting. He died in 1871 as a result of falling from his ladder while painting a house! I think he must have got into the pub trade through his in laws, who were town blacksmiths and ran the Old Sparrowhawk (according to a newspaper article in the 2000s a picture of my great great great great grandmother is likely to be the oldest photo of a Burnley resident!) Burnley was certainly a violent place at the time. There is a vivid account in the Burnley Gazette of a murdered man being laid on a table in my great great great grand parents pub. The local papers now online are a brilliant resource as dsr suggests

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:25 am**

If you haven’t seen it G Trodd ‘Political Change in the Working Class in Blackburn and Burnley 1880-1914’, Lancaster PhD (1978) is well worth a read. It shows how the economic structure of the cotton industry in both towns was radically different and that this had a profound impact on politics. In Blackburn mill ownership was concentrated in the hands of patriarchal Tories whereas in Burnley the pattern was more diverse with many independent producers renting space in large sheds. As a result politics in Burnley was more liberal/radical than in Blackburn

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:21 am**

There are a few mentions in Bennett's History of Burnley Part IV.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:34 am**

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:34 pm
Yes thanks for that…. Owd Betts, a famine road built by Lancashire workers for famine relief, on the same principal of the more famous Irish famine roads. That will certainly figure, exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to start filtering through for investigation. Brill

Rooley Moor Road it is. From Stacksteads to Rochdale. I’ve seen another theory that it was actually to service a pit and that the pit owner had done some sort of deal. The setts finish just about where the mine was.
I’ve also read that during the cotton shortage merchants in Liverpool were stock piling and waiting for the price to rise whilst mill workers were suffering.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:27 pm**

Just to add. Edwin Waugh the dialect poet, well known to many because of Waugh’s Well above Rossendale, wrote an account of the lives of the Lancashire mill workers during the Cotton Famine.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:17 pm**

dsr wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:58 pm
Probably stating the obvious, but you've checked the British Newspaper Archive I presume?

My great-grandfather worked in the mills at that time, but as he is long gone that isn't much use. Literally the only thing I remember my father (also no longer with us) about his grandfather, was that they got two days off per year (Christmas Day and Boxing Day) but they didn't feel particularly badly off because that's all everybody got. Apart from the mill owners, of course!

Not really relevant, sorry!

Yes, the National newspaper archive is one on my list, and of course its relevant, that is the beauty of Social History… and you grandfather is part of that story.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:31 pm**

Culmclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:11 am
My great great grandfather was a loom mechanic. He moved to Bradford some time between 1861 and 1865 to work in the Wool mills before returning to Burnley after a few years (his younger brother played for Burnley in 1883/84). My great grandfather was born in Bradford as a result. My great great great grandfather had originally worked as a canal boat painter in Finsley Gate but by the 1860s he was a publican and , I think, treasurer of the local Oddfellows. From what I can tell he was declared bankrupt before 1865 because of the economic conditions in the town and returned to painting. He died in 1871 as a result of falling from his ladder while painting a house! I think he must have got into the pub trade through his in laws, who were town blacksmiths and ran the Old Sparrowhawk (according to a newspaper article in the 2000s a picture of my great great great great grandmother is likely to be the oldest photo of a Burnley resident!) Burnley was certainly a violent place at the time. There is a vivid account in the Burnley Gazette of a murdered man being laid on a table in my great great great grand parents pub. The local papers now online are a brilliant resource as dsr suggests

Thanks for that, really interesting and the only delay for the Newspapers is getting my lists of keywords together to get the right results and cut trawling time… it’s almost complete for the 1900+ but still decent for 1850 + and manual archives still remain in museums etc (usually downstairs in the archives) know Bacup has some, and Lancashire Archive have a lot for our area, so should be plenty of print to go at.

Yes in the 1740’s the North West was literally the first Wild West - Whalley was town council and Vicar White of Altham/Colne Church and his henchman was the law of then “Blackbornshire.” Many were hung during the various guises in the fight for reform, quietly in Burnley around then too.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:36 pm**

Culmclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:25 am
If you haven’t seen it G Trodd ‘Political Change in the Working Class in Blackburn and Burnley 1880-1914’, Lancaster PhD (1978) is well worth a read. It shows how the economic structure of the cotton industry in both towns was radically different and that this had a profound impact on politics. In Blackburn mill ownership was concentrated in the hands of patriarchal Tories whereas in Burnley the pattern was more diverse with many independent producers renting space in large sheds. As a result politics in Burnley was more liberal/radical than in Blackburn

Will take a look at that, some good papers online, sadly, behind academic paywalls for those liking to search this stuff for themselves. The most authoritative and in depth academic study was Louisiana State University, of all places (that one is on its way).

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:38 pm**

ClaretPope wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:21 am
There are a few mentions in Bennett's History of Burnley Part IV.

Lost my copy in a flood a few years back. Don’t suppose it’s still for sale at Burnley Library… I’d had my set a good few years. On my ‘to get’ list.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:40 pm**

THEY’RE WEEL OFF UT CON WARK FOR THEIR LIVIN’.

They’re weel off ut con wark for their livin’;
Owd age is a troublesome brid;
Aw’ve gett’n th’ owd pluck to be strivin’,
Bu’ my limbs winnot do as they’re bid;
My joints are a’ stiff, welly breakin’.
Like hinges ut’s covered wi’ rust;
An’ my honds an’ my knees – why, they’re shakin’,
As if aw wur axin’ for trust.
They’re weel off ut con wark for their livin’;
It’s better t’ be healthy nor rich;
Though gowd is a thing aw believe in,
Aw don’t think it’s weel t’ ha too mich.
A mon wi’ a bank in his pocket
Sees boggarts wherever he goes,
An’ his heart welly jumps eawt o’ th’ socket,
If nobbut a chap blows his nose.
They’re weel off ut con wark for their livin’,
And thoose folk ut waint wark should dee;
They should oather be diggin’ or weyvin’,
Or goo beawt their baggin, for me.
Aw’ve a notion ut warkin’s a blessin’,
To some folk it would be a treat;
An’ sweat is a rare sort o’ dressin’,
For folk ut ha’ gout i’ their feet.
They’re weel off ut can wark for their livin’;
It’s seldom bu’ wark’s to be fun’;
Aw mak’ no acceawnt o’ folk givin’;
Aw loike to eyt th’ bread as aw’ve won.
Plain weyvin’s as honest as thinkin’,
Or preachin’, or makin’ a song;
But a chap ut is idle an’ drinkin’,
He’s wur nor a clock ut goos wrong.
They’re weel off ut con wark for their livin’,
An’ thoose folk ut con do it should;
An’ whoile they’re at full toime be savin’
An’ puttin’ a bit by to th’ good.
Bad toimes may be comin’, or sickness,
An’ childer ‘ul come, as yo know;
So put summut by i’ th’ owd stockin’,
An’ maybe ‘t ‘ll favour to grow.
If yo want to be happy, keep warkin’
An’ wark till yo want’n some rest.
It’s nowt, isn’t skulkin’ an’ shirkin’;
It’s best to be doin’ one’s best.
It’s reet enough sometomes t’ be playin’,
Bu’ gammon to gooin’ on th’ spree;
It’s nobbu th’ Owd [Gentleman] payin’
To foind yo a shop [when] yo dee.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:43 pm**

RMutt wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:34 am
Rooley Moor Road it is. From Stacksteads to Rochdale. I’ve seen another theory that it was actually to service a pit and that the pit owner had done some sort of deal. The setts finish just about where the mine was.
I’ve also read that during the cotton shortage merchants in Liverpool were stock piling and waiting for the price to rise whilst mill workers were suffering.

Thanks for that RMutt. Sadly, I’ve been reading an account today. Blackburn, but the Famine Road project. It’s a Toffs paper and paints it like a favour, but even he had to admit being shocked by the bodies buried pretty much where they fell on the roads and transportation to Lincolnshire to work as navvies over there. We don’t know how lucky we are.

Yep, spot on. However, it was a little more complicated. The warehouses in India and China were full to busting with Lancashire cotton… because demand was so high agents upped orders… but when demand dropped it took a about six months for the word to relay. As war broke out Lancashire was pumping vast amounts of cotton cloth into China and India that had a saturated market. So in reality the bumper harvests of 1958-60 caused the ‘bust’ because the Merchants in Liverpool bumped up the prices speculating, just as the word got back that India and China were selling out at a loss to shift it. So neither, Liverpool or Lincoln’s blockade really mattered.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:00 pm**

Goalposts wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:40 pm
THEY’RE WEEL OFF UT CON WARK FOR THEIR LIVIN’.

They’re weel off ut con wark for their livin’;
Owd age is a troublesome brid;
Aw’ve gett’n th’ owd pluck to be strivin’,
Bu’ my limbs winnot do as they’re bid;
My joints are a’ stiff, welly breakin’.
Like hinges ut’s covered wi’ rust;
An’ my honds an’ my knees – why, they’re shakin’,
As if aw wur axin’ for trust.
They’re weel off ut con wark for their livin’;
It’s better t’ be healthy nor rich;
Though gowd is a thing aw believe in,
Aw don’t think it’s weel t’ ha too mich.
A mon wi’ a bank in his pocket
Sees boggarts wherever he goes,
An’ his heart welly jumps eawt o’ th’ socket,
If nobbut a chap blows his nose.
They’re weel off ut con wark for their livin’,
And thoose folk ut waint wark should dee;
They should oather be diggin’ or weyvin’,
Or goo beawt their baggin, for me.
Aw’ve a notion ut warkin’s a blessin’,
To some folk it would be a treat;
An’ sweat is a rare sort o’ dressin’,
For folk ut ha’ gout i’ their feet.
They’re weel off ut can wark for their livin’;
It’s seldom bu’ wark’s to be fun’;
Aw mak’ no acceawnt o’ folk givin’;
Aw loike to eyt th’ bread as aw’ve won.
Plain weyvin’s as honest as thinkin’,
Or preachin’, or makin’ a song;
But a chap ut is idle an’ drinkin’,
He’s wur nor a clock ut goos wrong.
They’re weel off ut con wark for their livin’,
An’ thoose folk ut con do it should;
An’ whoile they’re at full toime be savin’
An’ puttin’ a bit by to th’ good.
Bad toimes may be comin’, or sickness,
An’ childer ‘ul come, as yo know;
So put summut by i’ th’ owd stockin’,
An’ maybe ‘t ‘ll favour to grow.
If yo want to be happy, keep warkin’
An’ wark till yo want’n some rest.
It’s nowt, isn’t skulkin’ an’ shirkin’;
It’s best to be doin’ one’s best.
It’s reet enough sometomes t’ be playin’,
Bu’ gammon to gooin’ on th’ spree;
It’s nobbu th’ Owd [Gentleman] payin’
To foind yo a shop [when] yo dee.

Hi goalposts have you got a reference for that, not seen it before. Author, date etc. or title of a book where I’ll find it? Thanks.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:26 am**

Another potential source. There's a company called "Forgotten Books" which does modern reprints of really old books. For example, the one I am reading is called A Summer in Scotland", and is a diary written and published in 1844 by an American touring Scotland. I have also seen a tourist diary by someone else, in 1850s Norway. They have over a million books on file, apparently, and take subscriptions to read online, as well as selling print and pdf copies.

Every chance they have something relevant.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:42 am**

dsr wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:26 am
Another potential source. There's a company called "Forgotten Books" which does modern reprints of really old books. For example, the one I am reading is called A Summer in Scotland", and is a diary written and published in 1844 by an American touring Scotland. I have also seen a tourist diary by someone else, in 1850s Norway. They have over a million books on file, apparently, and take subscriptions to read online, as well as selling print and pdf copies.

Every chance they have something relevant.

Thanks for that, again dsr. I am very fortunate in that I have ‘access all areas’ clearance as a post grad. In theory there should be nothing printed since the time that is not in the Library system… even if I have to don the gloves to look at the British Library’s copy. Where possible I do like to own the book, but often relevant reference information can be missing from print on demand. I got a fabulous source the other day… but only for leads as none of the ‘cover’ pages are included so lacks specific dates, authors, city and original publisher etc. which are needed for the validation checks academic works require, before new work is verified and marked. Missing references are treated like outright lies, and make the difference between ‘a good read’ and qualification as an academic reference paper.

That said, I will take a look

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:56 pm**

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:38 pm
Lost my copy in a flood a few years back. Don’t suppose it’s still for sale at Burnley Library… I’d had my set a good few years. On my ‘to get’ list.

Abebooks seem to have copies on sale. Don't know about the Library

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:31 pm**

ClaretPope wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:56 pm
Abebooks seem to have copies on sale. Don't know about the Library

Thanks, ClaretPope. Will get a set ordered.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:20 pm**

This is a good source of information about the cotton industry in Lancashire and is right up to date.
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-b ... re-legacy/

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:24 pm**

mikeS wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:20 pm
This is a good source of information about the cotton industry in Lancashire and is right up to date.
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-b ... re-legacy/

Yes thanks for that Mike. Hadn’t looked for this research but have found Historic England very useful in the past. I will read with interest, Thanks.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:35 pm**

Lancashire Militias covered in this document from the LAncs Record Office.
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/520 ... nteers.pdf

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:38 pm**

Weavers Triangle website has a page on the Civil War and it's effect in Burnley.
https://www.weaverstriangle.co.uk/history/famine.htm

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:40 pm**

local Burnley historian Roger Frost would know a bit about the period.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:49 pm**

mikeS wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:40 pm
local Burnley historian Roger Frost would know a bit about the period.

Just been reading Preston was particularly badly hit. At the time 80% of their manufacturing was Blackburn yarn. I’ll look Roger Frost contact details up. There will be a few from here to Liverpool to talk too, before I’m done.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:05 pm**

David Olusoga may have produced research in this area. I met him when he was guest speaker at a Black History Month event put on by my colleagues in London, October 2019. He spoke about connection between the Lancashire cotton mill workers and American cotton. First time - not an area of history I'd ever looked at - I'd heard of these connections.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:11 pm**

mikeS wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:38 pm
Weavers Triangle website has a page on the Civil War and it's effect in Burnley.
https://www.weaverstriangle.co.uk/history/famine.htm

Without wanting to sound ungrateful (I’m certainly not), the Weavers Triangle page is a throw away. A general historians history, not wrong but basic text book stuff. The Lincoln blockade is still being circulated, even by some academics. It was accepted up to about 10 years ago, when in-depth research disproved the blockade as a direct cause of the famine.

Next came the Liverpool Merchants theory, when in fact they burned themselves more than anyone else. The Indian and Egyptian yarn were tested prior to the blockade and was not suitable for Calico. We had saturated the Indian and Chinese markets due to over exuberant Merchants taking so long to relay bad news back -they’d massively overestimated continued demand and were now drowning in linen; in fact by the time more was needed some five years later, they had copied the model with newer tech. Oversupply and overoptimism in 1958-60 was what really caused it. Most of the warehouses were still stocked in 1866 when the market picked up (though never to the same levels) temporarily at least.

And the bit about the famine roads, WOW! There are calls for the Irish Famine Roads to be recognised as legal genocide… that article makes it sound like a day out digging roads!

… However, I am very grateful to you for your time, leads, interest and help

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:30 pm**

Paul Waine wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:05 pm
David Olusoga may have produced research in this area. I met him when he was guest speaker at a Black History Month event put on by my colleagues in London, October 2019. He spoke about connection between the Lancashire cotton mill workers and American cotton. First time - not an area of history I'd ever looked at - I'd heard of these connections.

Cheeses for that Paul. If he’s done a paper around it should flag up. Might be outside his focus, though. I’m particularly looking to the differing attitudes and rivalry between towns at the time from a Lancashire perspective rather than a wider study of the period. After saying that the longest academic work in this field was out of Louisiana! Lol

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:18 pm**

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:30 pm
Cheeses for that Paul. If he’s done a paper around it should flag up. Might be outside his focus, though. I’m particularly looking to the differing attitudes and rivalry between towns at the time from a Lancashire perspective rather than a wider study of the period. After saying that the longest academic work in this field was out of Louisiana! Lol

Cheeses to you, too, Elwa. Good luck with the thesis. It sounds interesting.

A good piece of owd tasty will do me.

Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:31 am**

Paul Waine wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:18 pm
Cheeses to you, too, Elwa. Good luck with the thesis. It sounds interesting.

A good piece of owd tasty will do me.

Lol had not spotted that, sorry glad you could interpret.

Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:35 am**

Good luck with your research Elwa. Sounds an interesting topic.
I think the British library online newspaper collection is very useful and there would be a few newspapers in Burnley fir the period you're looking at. Access for a month is around £12 I think and worth is for downloading PDFs of the articles you want.
I know the riot act was read in Burnley a few occasions in the 1800s and the militia were called out to put down the rioters. There was one incident where the rioters dragged a mill owner out of his house and burned it to the ground but don't have the date.
Fascinating stuff.
Enjoy.
Mike

Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:57 am**

mikeS wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:35 am
Good luck with your research Elwa. Sounds an interesting topic.
I think the British library online newspaper collection is very useful and there would be a few newspapers in Burnley fir the period you're looking at. Access for a month is around £12 I think and worth is for downloading PDFs of the articles you want.
I know the riot act was read in Burnley a few occasions in the 1800s and the militia were called out to put down the rioters. There was one incident where the rioters dragged a mill owner out of his house and burned it to the ground but don't have the date.
Fascinating stuff.
Enjoy.
Mike

Sadly, it was not that an unusual occurrence. People were hung at Burnley after most of the revolts: Luddites (smallest Luddite uprising riots in Rossendale), Levellers, Foxites, Reformers, Spencorians… the list went on. Several protesters were shot by militia in Blackburn/Darren protests. A lot of major radicals in the area… hence Methodism’s first shoots can be traced to Nelson, Howarth, Rossendale. The area was known as the Wild North West long before the US version (from about 1700), Lord (Gordon) Byron was very active and used his seat in parliament to fight for workers rights in the North West (his family estate was Spotland, Rochdale).

Not relevant to my current study but fascinating as a general feel for the area. Burnley was always in among ‘radicalism’ and ‘sedition’ fighting for workers rights.

The National Newspaper Archive is absolutely a source I shall be mining extensively post Christmas.

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:03 pm**

Just listening to ‘In Our Time: The Lancashire Cotton Famine’ by the BBC again.

Just shows how continued research in the Humanities remains vital. Produced in May 2015. It’s main premise (the blockade by Lincoln) is no longer widely accepted in academia. This is happening in every field of study as our understanding and increased access to world resources and scientific procedures advance.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:50 pm**

Just thought I’d share an update…

First serious research is suggesting Burnley avoided the worst of the famine, due to being the latest new Cotton town, with bigger factories and newer machines. Burnley mills were able to switch production fairly swiftly to printed cotton (a different mix) and work through the crisis. Still early days and much more evidence is needed, but it seems likely the Burnley Blackburn antipathy started due to Blackburn (and Preston) having smaller older factories that couldn’t adjust. So while Burnley worked, and indeed expanded, Blackburn and Preston were at the sharp end of the famine.

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:59 pm**

Essay coming together, and with it the origins of the Blackburn/Burnley rivalry, and why “no one likes us.” Burnley, being late to the industrial revolution was relatively untouched and even grew through the Cotton Famine: New big factories and new machines could swap cotton grades and colorise, while traditional weaving districts with old factories couldn’t… Blackburn crashed, Burnley (relatively) boomed. Preston mainly spinning Blackburn yarn shared our neighbours fate. Resentment was borne. After 1862 successful parishes were bound to support failing neighbours. Guess who Burnley tipped up for. Resentment on both sides resulted. Many towns held such resentments, but by the time they faded Burnley v Blackburn (and to a lesser degree Preston) transformed into football rivalry and is why even ‘outsiders’ recognise our derby as a bit different than the rest.

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:25 pm**

Sorry I missed this thread first time around. I am very interested in this subject, as a huge history / museum buff that was born and raised in Burnley but have lived in the states for 22 years.

If you haven’t read it, you should definitely track down a copy of the book “My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle” a first hand account of living through the famine. This book touched me very much when I first read it about 35 yrs ago:

https://www.abebooks.com/9780907027072/ ... 027075/plp

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:27 am**

Elwa, I have access to online academic libraries. I am more than happy to dig around for you. Your research topic is adjacent to some work I just did on the Liverpool waterfront.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:49 am**

CleggHall wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:24 pm
The Cotton Famine Road above Rochdale May be worth investigating. The unemployed created this by installing setts high on the moors during the American Civil War. In this way Lancashire textile workers took a stand against slavery.

Yes, definitely worth a visit if you don't mind a yomp. You can go from the Norden end, but I accessed it via the top of Cowpe and then took the crag road towards Norden/Rochdale. Eventually you come to the cobbled section which stretches for miles and is amazing to see in such a remote landscape. However having said it's remote, it was (apparently) a very well trodden and busy "highway" back in day as it was far quicker than negotiating the underdeveloped tracks along the Rossendale Valley floor. As others have said, laying those sets on the moors to pave the pack horse road provided "gainful employment" to hundreds of laid off cotton workers during the cotton famine. For many years there was apparently a pub/Inn high up on the cobbled section between Cowpe and Norden and the ruins are still evident today as I've seen them. According to my 90 year old mum, her grandmother, who lived in Upper Cowpe worked at the pub whilst her grandfather (and her father for a time) worked the moorland quarries. Interesting stuff.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:12 pm**

claretabroad wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:27 am
Elwa, I have access to online academic libraries. I am more than happy to dig around for you. Your research topic is adjacent to some work I just did on the Liverpool waterfront.

It’s a masters project so I have access, not that I’m going to turn down the offer of a decent research assistant. Got a couple of decent papers regarding Liverpool - and the oversupply/merchant greed/ and standard blockade explanation. There is a very good book by Mary Ellison, Support For Secession: Lancashire and the American Civil War (University of Chicago: 1972)that is forming the base arguments about most of the county and Civil War politics/ reason for them in most towns. Laird and the CSS Alabama and CSS Florida will be mentioned as part of Liverpool and the international fallout of ‘Neutrality’ and how it was reached. However the main thrust will be East Lancs and the very specific reasons one town crashed as another flourished. As you know Liverpool was outstripping London as a port; so the Brummie guns for the North mitigated cotton for most, but the specialist cotton porters on the dockside… guns largely made by firms involved in the infamous Lincoln Letter to Manchester.

What I’m still looking for is a full list of Works done in the crisis. I want the real story of ‘relief’ and the exploitation of the unfortunate e.g. the famine roads, and other public works: parks, sewers, road laying, footpaths etc. that resulted. Corporation parks are more or less nailed on but the roads are unsurprisingly much less highlighted. I’ve got a bit around Blackburn, but there will be a whole lot more to find in the next ten days or so.

Fascinating subject that has already answered so many questions for me. Yet a neglected bit of our history

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:18 pm**

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:49 am
Yes, definitely worth a visit if you don't mind a yomp. You can go from the Norden end, but I accessed it via the top of Cowpe and then took the crag road towards Norden/Rochdale. Eventually you come to the cobbled section which stretches for miles and is amazing to see in such a remote landscape. However having said it's remote, it was (apparently) a very well trodden and busy "highway" back in day as it was far quicker than negotiating the underdeveloped tracks along the Rossendale Valley floor. As others have said, laying those sets on the moors to pave the pack horse road provided "gainful employment" to hundreds of laid off cotton workers during the cotton famine. For many years there was apparently a pub/Inn high up on the cobbled section between Cowpe and Norden and the ruins are still evident today as I've seen them. According to my 90 year old mum, her grandmother, who lived in Upper Cowpe worked at the pub whilst her grandfather (and her father for a time) worked the moorland quarries. Interesting stuff.

Sorry for sending you the same post, and bits will not necessarily apply to you, in the same way as Claretbrad, but I hope you find it interesting and of coarse any pointers will be greatly appreciated and properly accredited.

It’s a masters project so I have access, not that I’m going to turn down the offer of a decent research assistant. Got a couple of decent papers regarding Liverpool - and the oversupply/merchant greed/ and standard blockade explanation. There is a very good book by Mary Ellison, Support For Secession: Lancashire and the American Civil War (University of Chicago: 1972) that is forming the base arguments about most of the county and Civil War politics/ reason for them in most towns. Laird and the CSS Alabama and CSS Florida will be mentioned as part of Liverpool and the international fallout of ‘Neutrality’ and how it was reached. However the main thrust will be East Lancs and the very specific reasons one town crashed as another flourished. As you know Liverpool was outstripping London as a port; so the Brummie guns for the North mitigated cotton for most, but the specialist cotton porters on the dockside… guns largely made by firms involved in the infamous Lincoln Letter to Manchester.

What I’m still looking for is a full list of Works done in the crisis. I want the real story of ‘relief’ and the exploitation of the unfortunate e.g. the famine roads, and other public works: parks, sewers, road laying, footpaths etc. that resulted. Corporation parks are more or less nailed on but the roads are unsurprisingly much less highlighted. I’ve got a bit around Blackburn, but there will be a whole lot more to find in the next ten days or so.

Fascinating subject that has already answered so many questions for me. Yet a neglected bit of our history

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:47 pm**

https://storiesandtreasures.wordpress.c ... ard-ryley/

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:44 pm**

Oshkoshclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:47 pm
https://storiesandtreasures.wordpress.c ... ard-ryley/

Thanks Oshkoshclaret, I will dig into Barlick, (is it Lancashire or Yorkshire?). Either way it is generally seen like Rossendale, Rochdale mainly concerned with wool, but the few original small cotton manufacturers in these were as hard hit as those in Blackburn and Preston; as was several small firms in Burnley’s there was just not as many and so the overall effect (area for area) seemed less.

There are some great personal accounts. I will also be making use of local newspapers reports from the time, very different than the National’s coverage that generally goes with the Cobden and Bright ‘local insights.’ Most radicals, indeed the most outspoken Lancashire abolitionists (Lancashire was hugely abolitionist) distrusted Lincoln right up to his assassination. The Emancipation Declaration (which only freed slaves in Confederate States, initially) was seen as further proof Lincoln was purely an opportunist; they already hated his protectionism, and believed a free South would quickly turn to ‘free market’ by preference and ‘free labour’ would be a natural extension of trade… therefore Lancashire was far from universally for the Union as the textbooks often tell us… in fact there is very little research in recent years that has not brought up serious questions regarding the ‘stoic’ Lancastrian’s and their passive resistance.

The Lancashire United in passive in stoic acceptance was largely a history created after Lincoln’s death… when it became totally unacceptable to question a President who also instantly became a US national anti-slavery martyr.

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:19 am**

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:00 pm
Hi goalposts have you got a reference for that, not seen it before. Author, date etc. or title of a book where I’ll find it? Thanks.

I thought boggart was an Irish word. Truly awful, awful times.

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:31 pm**

Stayingup wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:19 am
I thought boggart was an Irish word. Truly awful, awful times.

Pretty much what set up this study. The famine roads in Ireland are now being seriously questioned regarding being a potential genocide against the poor. My starting question was how different were the conditions for the Lancashire famine roads? A Penny loaf for a days digging roads over Owd Betts, sort of hints that it was not that different.

The picture of a stoic acceptance we so often see reported is not reflected in the first hand accounts of weavers buried at the roadside where they fell, others crippled and unable to return to weaving… the list goes on. People were desperate to turn to parish rather than state (a Padiham pro-southern church minister set up one of the largest Parish relief funds)… and deep resentment over the corruption in town halls etc. where “relief agents” seemed to do rather well out of a pot of ‘free money’ from Mansion House and parish collections…

Fascinating, Really and truly awful times.

The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: The Lancashire Famine / Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65

Re: Fao Local historians, family legends of the Cotton Distress 1861-65