Just announced that he will stay as England manager until after the 2024 Euros.

Right decision

Who'd have thought that his deep dive into a soul searching journey of personal introspection would have resulted in him staying put in £XX million per year contract?

Missed opportunity to bring in somebody with a proven track record as a manager.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:43 am

Right decision

I agree. He just needs a bit more luck and a few penalties to go our way. The French for example seem to have the luck of the Irish this tournament.

Good decision. The players love playing for him and he's improved as a coach over the years - for example, everyone was worried about Mbappe in the semi against France, his tactics meant Mbappe was shut down and we actually exploited Mbappe's weakness of tracking back.

If he could improve further, I'd like to see more flexibility with player selection as I still feel he's a bit rigid in his thinking.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:49 am

Good decision. The players love playing for him and he's improved as a coach over the years - for example, everyone was worried about Mbappe in the semi against France, his tactics meant Mbappe was shut down and we actually exploited Mbappe's weakness of tracking back.

But France won 2-1.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:49 am

But France won 2-1.

If HK scores that penalty we’re playing today. Fine margins as they say.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:49 am

But France won 2-1.

Yeah we know. Not sure what the manager can do about Kane putting a penalty into row Z. That's football.

We simply should not be employing people to such important jobs on the basis that they happen to be in the building when the vacancy arises.

It's not that Gareth Southgate didn't have a track record as a manager before he got the job. It's that his track record was one of complete and absolute failure.

The joke is that the England job is going to give him a reputation he truly does not deserve, on the back of being able to pick outstanding players. He'll walk into a job once he finally leaves England and we'll see how good he actually is at managing a team. Whether the joke is funny depends on which job he walks into.

If, God forbid, it's us then it won't be funny.

I think his 'soul searching' was more about him waiting to see what the reaction will be after the WC. I have been critical of some of his tactics in the past but I think he had learned and the team has seen improvements in the way it become more positive, so yes the right decision.

‘Meh’ either way for me.

Cirrus_Minor wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:53 am

I think his 'soul searching' was more about him waiting to see what the reaction will be after the WC. I have been critical of some of his tactics in the past but I think he had learned and the team has seen improvements in the way it become more positive, so yes the right decision.

Did he need to announce that he wasn't resigning? He already has a contract to 2024.

Disappointing for me, but inevitable.

I tend to agree with Rowls on this one, he's been blessed with some great players, but hasn't brought the best out of them. The defence particularly is ordinary when compared to world standards. IMO

Well deserved, but we really ought to bring a tactician in to assist him with in game decisions.

On balance probably the right call given the Euro's are only 18 months away, and I don't see any obvious candidates lining up to replace Gareth.

I only hope if Euro 2024 is his last tournament he adopts a more positive approach to the key games, particularly in his use of subs be pro-active and not reactive.

Southgate can shoulder some of the blame for our exit to France, however he can't be blamed for Kane skying the penalty, or some of the dubious refereeing calls during that match.

Those who want him to go I'm curious who you think will take the reins and how they'll achieve better results in the major tournaments than Southgate has thus far.

I was ready for a refresh to be honest, but I’m not gutted he’s staying. Positively changed the image of the team, players obviously like him and he achieved par in Qatar. His tournament performance is overall v good.

How many games has he won where England haven't been favourites?
Any?

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:10 am

How many games has he won where England haven't been favourites?
Any?

Yes many

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:10 am

Yes many

Can you remind me?

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:45 am

Missed opportunity to bring in somebody with a proven track record as a manager.

Such as?

And Southgate very clearly does have a proven track record as a manager.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:14 am

Can you remind me?

Spain and Germany away stand out.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:43 am

Such as?

Pick anbody who has achieved success as a club manager and they've got a better track record than Southgate.

I could start off with Chris Wilder.

The list of people who are better managers than Southgate is a very, very long list Rileybobs.

It really is a sad day for football

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:45 am

Who'd have thought that his deep dive into a soul searching journey of personal introspection would have resulted in him staying put in £XX million per year contract?

Brilliant

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:50 am

Pick anbody who has achieved success as a club manager and they've got a better track record than Southgate.

I could start off with Chris Wilder.

The list of people who are better managers than Southgate is a very, very long list Rileybobs.

The vacancy wouldn’t be for a club manager.

So your suggestion to succeed Southgate is Chris Wilder. Fantastic.

Comparing Wilder's managerial record and Southgate's is like comparing Manuel Benson to George Porter.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:54 am

Comparing Wilder's managerial record and Southgate's is like comparing Manuel Benson to George Porter.

Southgate has a far more impressive managerial record than Wilder. Are you being serious?

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:44 am

And Southgate very clearly does have a proven track record as a manager.

If he left England, who would have him? Would you expect success?

On the flip side, I'm not sure there is a queue of suitable willing candidates ready to take his job. Status Quo probably right but difficult to be too enthusiastic.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:55 am

Southgate has a far more impressive managerial record than Wilder. Are you being serious?

Lol.

I have to admit, I thought you were being serious at first. Fair play, you got me.

Stanbill05 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:56 am

If he left England, who would have him? Would you expect success?

On the flip side, I'm not sure there is a queue of suitable willing candidates ready to take his job. Status Quo probably right but difficult to be too enthusiastic.

I suspect he would get a job at a Premier League club. Whether he’d be successful or not I don’t have a clue. But he’s currently an international manager, and for all intents and purposes it’s a completely different role than a club manager.

I don’t think we’re supposed to be enthusiastic. I think considering the circumstances and lack of any obvious successor (other than Chris Wilder) this appears to be the right decision.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:57 am

Lol.

I have to admit, I thought you were being serious at first. Fair play, you got me.

You think that Chris Wilder has a more impressive managerial record than Southgate, seriously?

Two more years of the Clingons that surround football instead of two years of football.

what_no_pies wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:01 am

Well deserved, but we really ought to bring a tactician in to assist him with in game decisions.

Good idea. Let Gareth do all the media stuff but bring someone in who can manage a football team to manage the football team.

Terrible news :/

Big games come to down to fractions, penalties, referees, shots through legs. That variance doesn’t change under a different coach.

Feel like people judge Champions League in a similarly flawed way and outcome bias is the overriding theme over looking at actual performance.

England’s performance at the WC was at an unbelievably high level and it took a lot of bad luck to lose the game against France. It’s not failure.

You'd have to be smacked off your tits not to think that a World Cup semi final, a European championship final and a World Cup quarter final don't count as "a successful track record as a manager"

I tend to think 3 major tournaments is enough for an international manager but with the Euro's being so close, a happy camp of players and seemingly no obvious replacement Id come round to thinking Southgate staying on to the Euro's is probably the best option.

That was until I realised when reading this thread Id completely overlooked the obvious man to take over as England manager **drum roll**

Remind me, has he actually won anything? I don’t mean nearly won I mean won?

Honest question, I don’t know!

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:08 pm

Big games come to down to fractions, penalties, referees, shots through legs. That variance doesn’t change under a different coach.

Feel like people judge Champions League in a similarly flawed way and outcome bias is the overriding theme over looking at actual performance.

England’s performance at the WC was at an unbelievably high level and it took a lot of bad luck to lose the game against France. It’s not failure.

Losing isn't failure. If we identify as winners we are winners. Go Gareth!

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:47 am

Spain and Germany away stand out.

Good results but i presume friendlies?

Or were they qualifiers?

So thus far those advocating change have suggested Chris Wilder hmm!.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:23 pm

Good results but i presume friendlies?

Or were they qualifiers?

Germany was the Euro's, Spain was in the Nations League, and we've also beaten Belgium in the Nations League.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:23 pm

Good results but i presume friendlies?

Or were they qualifiers?

Spain was nations league. Germany was a friendly. We tend not to draw top teams in qualifiers as we are always top seed thanks to our performances in tournaments and qualifying.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:00 pm

You think that Chris Wilder has a more impressive managerial record than Southgate, seriously?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Nice try Mr Bobs. You've raised a chuckle and I admit that you got me so you can stop now.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:23 pm

So thus far those advocating change have suggested Chris Wilder hmm!.

No, he wasn't suggested. He was merely listed as one of the many, many managers with a better record than Southgate. It's not hard to find them.

Stick a pin into any level of the football league and chances are the manager there has a better record than Southgate.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:28 pm

Spain was nations league. Germany was a friendly. We tend not to draw top teams in qualifiers as we are always top seed thanks to our performances in tournaments and qualifying.

I appreciate that.

But to win a tournament we will have to beat some of the top nations in tournament football.

He doesn't have any history of success of this.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:33 pm

No, he wasn't suggested. He was merely listed as one of the many, many managers with a better record than Southgate. It's not hard to find them.

Stick a pin into any level of the football league and chances are the manager there has a better record than Southgate.

And club management and international management are totally different areas.

Capello and Eriksson both had great careers as club managers prior to taking the England job yet both flopped far more than Southgate has.

Even Hodgson who enjoyed an excellent career in club management couldn't repeat that trait when he took over England.

Ideally I'd have Howe or Potter as England boss but in reality neither of them are going to leave big club jobs, so the field for a successor to Gareth is thin due to those who are available and will genuinely be interested in the gig.

Great decision for him, bad decision for England. He's not a winner, he's a nearly man. Failed when it comes to the crunch in the last 3 tournaments. We need to stop rewarding failure.